Greater dragon thought

[Guest]

Before any of you devs came up with this greater dragon idea.Was anythought given to the impact it would have on pvp?We took two fresh tamed dragons to a champ at despise and litterally killed 13 people with just two people.Took teh spawn and walked out.This is with fresh tames!and the pvpers we were fighting a seasoned fighters that knew how to run the spawn.Bad Bad idea with these i see it now the new gimp template dismount archers with super draggys YAY!!!!

 

[mookin1]

No, I guess when they worked on greater dragons they totally forgot that pvp existed, it must have slipped their minds. Silly devs! (this was sarcasm)

How can THIRTEEN people fail to kill just two players unless they were a total bunch of numptees?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

No, I guess when they worked on greater dragons they totally forgot that pvp existed, it must have slipped their minds. Silly devs! (this was sarcasm)

How can THIRTEEN people fail to kill just two players unless they were a total bunch of numptees?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok let me clarify for ya start with just 5 people then the others came to assist as they filtered in they died 2 greaters at over 900+ life on ya your dead meat.For the record these fresh tames have a butt load of magery and eval at tame!

 

[Guest]

Ach, they just wanted to see you all cry and scream so they could get a good laugh

Pity the seasoned fighters you fought knew how to run the spawn better than they knew to run themselves....

Tell you what, if your dragons are so OTT in PvP, try the same setup again, this time with no pet balls. See what result you get. Then we can look at all the other gimp tricks you were using on the night to pull it off

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

No, I guess when they worked on greater dragons they totally forgot that pvp existed, it must have slipped their minds. Silly devs! (this was sarcasm)

How can THIRTEEN people fail to kill just two players unless they were a total bunch of numptees?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok let me clarify for ya start with just 5 people then the others came to assist as they filtered in they died 2 greaters at over 900+ life on ya your dead meat.For the record these fresh tames have a butt load of magery and eval at tame!

[/ QUOTE ]


people who just filter in are not seasoned PVPers. I have never come to help someone defend a spawn and just go charging in, you stop wait for everyone to get there res up the originals , and lay waste to the foolish tamers.

900 hit points just means you can drag it farther. and if the tamer is not stealthing , he should be dead

 

[5% Luck]

I mean realy Beating on a golem at luna bank for 3 days vs taming lame bulls for 6 minths who realy put the work in to their chars here and who "should" be champ at a champ I mean realy you all talk about the "skill" you have as PvPers lol I ve been killing you guys for years!

Knight of Justis!

 

[imported_Sarphus]

seasoned with what?

The new dragons would counter wither-spamming a choke point pretty effectively, but I can't imagine a good group of 13 having trouble with 2 dragons. That doesn't sound like a good group of 13 at all...

Even better... give us more details, cause this story sounds fabricated.

What template were you and your partner running. What did you do to kill people? What did they do to retaliate? Were any of them mounted? What type of characters were you fighting against? What spawn location?

 

[Guest]

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seasoned with what?

The new dragons would counter wither-spamming a choke point pretty effectively, but I can't imagine a good group of 13 having trouble with 2 dragons. That doesn't sound like a good group of 13 at all...

Even better... give us more details, cause this story sounds fabricated.

What template were you and your partner running. What did you do to kill people? What did they do to retaliate? Were any of them mounted? What type of characters were you fighting against? What spawn location?

[/ QUOTE ]


seasoned with what?

That was very funny.
Maybe they were pickled with some rum.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

I agree... the "pvpers" want to have the dragons nerfed, because they always want tamers nerfed. The problem isn't the dragons or any other pets. The problem is that there are a few game mechanics that are highly abuseable with ANY pets.

If your strategy to fix the current imbalances is to nerf pets, you have to nerf pets down to the point where they are completely irrelevant in both pvp and pvm. The problem is GAME MECHANICS, not pets. A pet being controlled perfectly, but without the use of these abused mechanics is not only balanced, but actually at a disadvantage.

The game mechanics I feel imbalance tamers the most are:
Pet Balls
Ninja Forms for run speed
Archery dismount (an issue in conjunction with pets or gank squads)
perma nerve strike (done through an exploit)

As long as the pvper being attacked can stay mounted and can't have a pet called in directly on top of him, a pet is a minimal threat at best. Pet balls allow tamers to bring their pets into the combat on whatever terms the tamer chooses, which doesn't allow their opponent to take any recourse.

IMO pet balls break are the #1 most abuseable item in pvp today. I think pet balls should work like a summoning spell (cast time and interruptable) to prevent players from summoning pets as part of offensive combos. Pets aren't nearly as dangerous if they can't be called in as part of a combo...

Ninja forms are mostly balanced, but the ability to repeatedly summon a pet while chasing a dismounted player down at mount speed is a SERIOUSLY broken game mechanic. You can't have ANY reasonably strong pets in the game and have them be balanced with a game mechanic like this. If pet balls are balanced, ninja forms also become balanced. I don't think you should be able to use pet balls while in ninja forms (just like any other summoning spell). I think a nerf to disallow use of the pet ball while in a ninja form reduces ninja forms to being a quick escape mechanism instead of a "run the guy down for a kill" mechanism.

Dismount in its current form is just cheesey. It encourages gank squads and does a lot of damage to pvp. I'm ok with dismount as a game mechanic, but something needs to be done to balance it more. The problem with it is that it effectively flags someone as the guy to gank. Without it, pvp can become all about running all over the place. Perhaps dismount could be changed into being an attack against the stamina of your mount, so a few successive dismounts drains your mount's stamina and knocks you off. The other way to go with this is to create more incentives for unmounted combat. IMO, mounted combat is difficult to balance because mounted speed is so much faster than unmounted speed. In the early days of UO where not many people rode mounts, pvp was at its best. I attribute mounted combat to being the biggest killer of pvp balance in UO.

I think there's plenty of room for a dialogue on how to balance the dismount mechanic... I just tossed a couple ideas out haphazardly

Perma nerve strike...
There's an exploit that allows someone to hit you without breaking your nerve strike paralysis. This allows somene to run around mounted on a cu or hiryu, stun you in place and kill you at their own leisure. This exploit gives legitimate tamers a bad name. Just like casting sploits give legitimate mages a bad name and speed hacks give pvp a bad name.

 

[J0KING]

The new dragons can take a beating... but I do not see how only two tamers can take out thirteen experienced PvPrs. Figuring they would have enough knowledge to drop the two tamers first and work on the dragons later.

It is good that the players were seasoned though... tastier for the dragons

 

[Guest]

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seasoned with what?

[/ QUOTE ]

OLD BAY!!!!!

... do only Marylanders get that?

 

[Guest]

RTLFC

I think it's kind of funny to make these dragons. I don't play anymore and can therefore see the fun part of it.

Do these dragons spawn at champ spawns too? Because that would be truely hillarious

 

[Guest]

Yes. They do spawn at level 4 cold-blood champ spawns.

They are very slow, but they like to tele-chomp and they cast/firebreath like a sumbitch. Plus, with the super health, their firebreath will drop you by 50 hp even with 60 fire resist.

Trained ones will certainly be better, but even the untrained ones often are GM+ in several skills.

If you have a good pvp-tamer template, a petball, and a friend who works well with you, I can easily see how 2 can take out 13, if they trickle in. You just have to focus on one enemy at a time and coordinate.

Nobody is going to survive the telewhacks and petballing-chomps from two superdragons for more than a few seconds.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

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IMO pet balls break are the #1 most abuseable item in pvp today. I think pet balls should work like a summoning spell (cast time and interruptable) to prevent players from summoning pets as part of offensive combos. Pets aren't nearly as dangerous if they can't be called in as part of a combo...


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your goal, but disagree with the means you are suggesting to achieve it.

As it is, one of the best options for a dismounted player is to start running, wait a few seconds, and then petball in a pet to re-mount and escape.

Putting an interruptable casting delay on petballs is nearly an automatic death sentence for anyone who gets dismounted.

Instead, increase the delay already on petballs between summoning and the "all kill" command. Currently, the delay is about one second. Making it several seconds would prevent pet ballers from using pets in an initial combo.

Then, add a delay of several seconds between re-use. Now, they can't spam the pet on you after the initial summoning.

This solves the problem without creating a new one.

 

[Guest]

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<blockquote><hr>

IMO pet balls break are the #1 most abuseable item in pvp today. I think pet balls should work like a summoning spell (cast time and interruptable) to prevent players from summoning pets as part of offensive combos. Pets aren't nearly as dangerous if they can't be called in as part of a combo...


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your goal, but disagree with the means you are suggesting to achieve it.

As it is, one of the best options for a dismounted player is to start running, wait a few seconds, and then petball in a pet to re-mount and escape.

Putting an interruptable casting delay on petballs is nearly an automatic death sentence for anyone who gets dismounted.

Instead, increase the delay already on petballs between summoning and the "all kill" command. Currently, the delay is about one second. Making it several seconds would prevent pet ballers from using pets in an initial combo.

Then, add a delay of several seconds between re-use. Now, they can't spam the pet on you after the initial summoning.

This solves the problem without creating a new one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually the best, most balanced idea you've put forth yet, EM.

I don't abuse petballs in PvP. In fact, I don't use them at all. I have a bag of like 80 of 'em in Makoto, lol. Guess that's why I never pulled as many kills down as others on Siege with pets. If you take the petball out of the equation, tamers (even ninja/stealth tamers!) are not a huge offensive threat anymore. You may not be able to kill them easily, but they aren't going to kill you easily either!

 

[imported_Sarphus]

I think pet balling in a mount from your stables to get around the function of the dismount special borders on exploitation. I think a dev would consider that an exploit.

There are issues with dismount too, though. I think dismount needs to be addressed too.

Then again... I'm not against what you're suggesting either. What I'm against is nerfing pets to the point where they aren't viable in PVM because PVP gimps are abusing game mechanics and using pets with them.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

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I think pet balling in a mount from your stables to get around the function of the dismount special borders on exploitation. I think a dev would consider that an exploit.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is just silly. It would only be an exploit if it allowed you to avoid the delay to remounting after dismounting. It does not.

<blockquote><hr>

There are issues with dismount too, though. I think dismount needs to be addressed too.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dismount isn't so bad, as long as you can see the dismounter. Hidden dismounts, well, that is a story for another thread!

<blockquote><hr>

Then again... I'm not against what you're suggesting either. What I'm against is nerfing pets to the point where they aren't viable in PVM because PVP gimps are abusing game mechanics and using pets with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

You're right.

I never tried using a pet ball to summon a mount from the stables, so I assumed you were saying it let you bypass the mount timer. Sorry about that.

I agree about dismount not being so bad when you can see the dismounter too. The range on dismount isn't exactly large.

 

[Guest]

Thing is, most PvPers use Ethys, not living mounts. Only ones that do consistently use live mounts are Samurais with Lesser Hiryus, or Tamers.

 

[MadTexan]

They are a five slot pet!! Makes the tamer pretty vulnerable as he/she is always on foot. I think you are crying just to cry.

 

[Guest]

How can you put the new dragon to pet ball ?If there are 3 days old and you need 7-10 taid that teh new dragon bond????!!
Next thing is i stoped playing my uber bushidodexer becasue after 2 month rest of pvp i figured out necromagees after corpseskin with only one ortvas flam kal was flam make 120 damamge wiht these combo!!!
For my opinion necro mages are to strong wich make wiih one spell combo 120 damge and im instant dead!!
And yes im wating my pvp tamer that the new dragon is going to bond becasue i have wtih my bushidodexer wich killeed 4500 pks and now i have no any chance agaisnt necromages wich makes wtih one combo 120 spelldamage after corpse skin!!
Caci(Funman)

 

[imported_Anakena]

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IMO pet balls break are the #1 most abuseable item in pvp today. I think pet balls should work like a summoning spell (cast time and interruptable) to prevent players from summoning pets as part of offensive combos. Pets aren't nearly as dangerous if they can't be called in as part of a combo...



[/ QUOTE ]

Making pet ball work like a summon spell wouldn't work. It would make a tamer unable to defend himself and people dismounted would almost never ba able to remount a pet. A lot of pvpers have a mount (often a swampy) on a pet ball for that purpose.

The problem with the petball is not the petball but the way it is used in some templates (ninja tamer following a dismounted target and using the petball repeatedly while next to the target). No need to nerf petballs, just put a delay (say 15 seconds) between uses.

 

[Guest]

Surely if you fall off your mount, you just get back on the mount you fell off? I realise it could be killed of course, or that you could be working around the delay summoning an ethy, but I'm not sure if a fix that gently nerfing pet balls will result in a satisfactory situation.

If the dismount is a huge problem, then I'd ask for a dismount fix rather than pet ball around it. I'm not trying to be awkward, it's just I don't want to see a half-arsed fix because of a clashing dismount problem

See, if I thought dismount from an ethy required a pet balled swampie, I'd be asking that the timer in summoning an ethy was dropped if you had just been dismounted from it. So that you'd only be hit with the dismount timer, not that plus ethy summon. That would mean I wouldn't need a pet ball fix, or need to worry about keeping that pet alive/resing it

Wenchy

 

[Babble]

And you think 2 archers could not have achieved the same result?