For Those of You that Need Clarification on PvP Discussions

[Jagerstadt]

Discussing PvP is 100% allowed under the RoC. Talking trash is not. A lot of you seem to have the two confused. So, let me make this clear.

Giving facts about a fight, discussing any shifts in power, discussing who 'won', and even mentioning who-killed-who, to a degree, is perfectly fine, as long as it is unbiased and not meant to insult anyone.

Now, talking about who-kicks-who's bucket, who's a useless meatshield, who's too much of a pansy to accept a duel, or who's a no-skill gimp is not. Why? Such comments violate the following sections of the RoC:

A. Show respect at all times.

B. Help build the Community.

C. Personal attacks are prohibited.This specifically means any text/post that is blatantly attacking another person on or off the forum, especially in a personal way.

D. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the board. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion in the long run, it only encourages personal attacks (if left unchecked).



Furthermore, any comments on who's fat, stupid, lazy, unpatriotic, or good-for-nothing IRL are strictly forbidden. Such comments violate the following sections of the RoC:

A. Show respect at all times.

B. Help build the Community.

C. Personal attacks are prohibited.

D. Trolling is prohibited.

J. Posting of pornography, racist or otherwise discriminating remarks, threats to cause physical or mental harm, extreme offensive language, material that breaks any law or otherwise totally unacceptable posts or links to pages that contain the aforementioned material may result in an immediate ban from the forums.



Now, some of you have trouble calling some people out as far as hacking and exploits are concerned. While you may think you are simply a concerned citizen, such accusations do not belong here. Such discussions violate the following sections of the RoC:

A. Show respect at all times.

B. Help build the Community.

C. Personal attacks are prohibited.

D. Trolling is prohibited.



Now, on the topic of discussing mod actions. If you have a problem with any disciplinary actions, you need to e-mail the admins. Whining about it on the boards violates the following sections of the RoC:

A. Show respect at all times.

B. Help build the Community.

I. Publicly discussing actions by the moderators is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to: bans, warnings, locks, and moved threads. Any inquiries or comments on bans, warnings, or other moderator actions, are to be sent in private messages or via email. A moderator may choose to publicly inform the participants of a forum about bans and warnings if this is in the interest of the forum.



Now, if you can actually discuss PvP without the ego, the trash talk, the personal attacks, and the accusations of hacking, that will get you a thread that won't get locked. The threads we've been locking/removing aren't 'discussions about PvP', they're flame wars. Furthermore, we can and do read between the lines. Slapping 'no offense' in front of a troll doesn't mean it's no longer a troll. If you need any further clarification on any of this, or have any objections, feel free to PM any of the mods, or e-mail our admins at [email protected].



Thanks,
Jag

 

[Black Majick]

*chuckles*

Sean...you having a ruff day/week???

Should prolly sticky this...Im sure in a week it will be lost off front page...maybe read before you post about PvP or something like that.

 

[Lord Hunter]

Couldnt have said it any better myself.

 

[WooWoo]

Sean i am deeply insulted by this post and feel like you are giving me no respect.... therefore this post needs to be closed because according to RoC your not allowed to insult anyone and not show respect... im crying inside

 

[RichDC]

Ive never understood this,

In the majority of PvP boards i read(i love them hilarity!) Saying that XXX is a useless mage and only good as a meatshield is fine, its not a personal attack its a statement about there ability to play a game. To say this guild sucks and shouldn't be in fel, once again isnt a personal attack.

Saying however, "your a complete ***T!" or something like that...IS a personal attack and shouldn't be allowed.

If you are going to allow PvP discussion on boards, you have to allow for a certain freedom of speech. If not the PvPers will band together and form there own PvP dedicated forums (look at GL my home shard), these eventually move nearly all threads out of the stratics forums.

P.S. Vote me in for mod! Joking...please dont!

 

[Black Majick]

RichDC for Sonoma Moderator!!!!

Widow Maker - I dont agree with how things are handled sometimes. No particular incident will be named, but they are the mods and are doing there jobs. If someone breaks the RoC it there job to fix the problem. I will also say that Jagerstadt is far from anti-pvp and not sure about Q and Hunter. All 3 of them I know have or still do PvP from time to time (not sure which ones still playing UO).

 

[Kellgory]

Hunter shows up at the PVP tourney on his red, but I'm not sure about the other Mods. I guess it's better if they don't fight at the gate or PVP a lot since then it could be easy to start taking sides. As it is now, it looks like all sides are getting treated pretty much the same.

 

[Skullcollector]

I have to agree with widow maker on this. The mods and removing posts and locking threads are why I stopped posting here. In fact I have been reading other shards threads for my entertainment because they have fun conversations. Our conversations are so strict what you are allowed to say I gave up trying to keep within the ROC and stopped posting all together. No offence to anyone but look at the topics we are now talking about in Sonoma threads (how to raise a lot of kids). Not good reading material for a video gamming site. It’s sad that we have to talk about IRL stuff because we are not allowed to talk about the game and its pvp in the Sonoma forms…

 

[Freya/Passion]

25 27 13 20 27 38


....Thats me setting the combination for the Lock thats coming...

 

[Black Majick]

25 27 13 20 27 38


....Thats me setting the combination for the Lock thats coming...

Not correct Freya...the combination is

38 45 18 29 06 24

 

[Lord Hunter]

Now, if you can actually discuss PvP without the ego, the trash talk, the personal attacks, and the accusations of hacking, that will get you a thread that won't get locked. The threads we've been locking/removing aren't 'discussions about PvP', they're flame wars. Furthermore, we can and do read between the lines. Slapping 'no offense' in front of a troll doesn't mean it's no longer a troll. If you need any further clarification on any of this, or have any objections, feel free to PM any of the mods, or e-mail our admins at [email protected].

Honestly every action that was taken with a thread, be it locking or deleting that thread had one if not all of these violations in it somewhere.

I know you all say respect is earned in PvP. But here respect is expected when you post, its what you agree to when you post here as it is stated in the RoC.

In the majority of PvP boards i read(i love them hilarity!) Saying that XXX is a useless mage and only good as a meatshield is fine, its not a personal attack its a statement about there ability to play a game. To say this guild sucks and shouldn't be in fel, once again isnt a personal attack.

This is not a violation of the RoC in itself. It is the response that it is going to receive that is a violation. Time and time again we let these threads go for a few days and it was ok, then it gradually went downhill fast in to a all out flame and troll war.

Cruise over to some of the other shard's boards and take a look at the PvP discussions going on there, constantly. Their mods even join in. They would simply not be allowed to occur on these boards, because of the fanatical anti-PvP attitudes made by this board's moderators. Looking back through the history of locks, bans, etc. on this board, one could reasonably even say that they seem to be against attacks on one certain guild in particular. It clearly demonstrates an unacceptable level of bias on their part.

I won't even go into the fact that any and all PVP discussions go against the strict interpretation of the TOS that these mods show, simply by their nature. There will always be ego trips, disrespect and flames. THAT IS PvP. Their attempt to curb the competitive nature of the human beast is inherently futile and counter productive. It is what makes the race and has us atop the food chain, so to speak.

I personaly choose to not join in as then it would ve veiwed that I was taking sides and we would have a whole slew of other acusations going on. We have 3 mods on the Forum, Jag, Q, and myself and I can say that we are by no means ANTI-PVP. I love reading the PvP threads but I hate scrolling through all the useless garbage and personal attacks that get thrown around.

As far as my knowledge goes on the matter we are all unguilded and have no personal favorites. We do not favor one guild over another, it may seem that way but when theres only 1 large guild to talk about who do you think people are going to talk about and attack?

I have to agree with widow maker on this. The mods and removing posts and locking threads are why I stopped posting here. In fact I have been reading other shards threads for my entertainment because they have fun conversations. Our conversations are so strict what you are allowed to say I gave up trying to keep within the ROC and stopped posting all together. No offence to anyone but look at the topics we are now talking about in Sonoma threads (how to raise a lot of kids). Not good reading material for a video gamming site. It’s sad that we have to talk about IRL stuff because we are not allowed to talk about the game and its pvp in the Sonoma forms…

You guys do not see the reasons why some of the posts and threads were removed. I doubt that you are on stratics 24/7 looking at all of the threads and responses that people make. A thread can be removed for a number of reasons. We choose to remove some of the threads as they tended to stray way off topic and way to personal.

You have to understand that people have made posts after you had last looked at that thread. While it may not have been unacceptable when you looked at it but that doesnt mean that it is still acceptable during the time you last looked at it, and the time you go back to look at it. A thread can go downhill very fast.

Hunter shows up at the PVP tourney on his red, but I'm not sure about the other Mods. I guess it's better if they don't fight at the gate or PVP a lot since then it could be easy to start taking sides. As it is now, it looks like all sides are getting treated pretty much the same.

I play every day and I only play one char. My main Hunter, and he is a Red, he has been red for years, people just never see me becuase I dont go looking for a fight, but if you want want I can ussualy be found at the Deamon Temple, The Terra Keep, Hytloth Balrons, Destard, Shame Elder Gazers, Covateous Lich Lord Room, anywhere you think a high level monster is that could be provoked you can most likely find me. I would be more then happy to take part in future pvp discussions if I actually had someone to PvP agaisnt, but as it stands I never see anyone becuase no one ventures where I go!

Do you not find it ironic that the only lively discussion going on right now is about and because of this board mods abuses??

This is a very fine line, and I do agree with you to a extent. However the argument can be made that the only posts we get now adays are PvP posts becuase all the trash talk and flame wars scared everyone else away! This place use to be hopping up and down with 10 new threads a day.

The point is, by posting here and signing up on stratics you agree to follow the RoC, you checked that box when you made your account.

It has been said before and I will say it again. We Sonoma Mods do enjoy the pvp threads and encourage them as long as they follow the RoC. We have never once said "NO PVP talks!" not once.

So please by all means talk about PvP, talk about fights, talk about duels, talk about champion spawns. But keep it respectfull and you will never have a problem.

Post as if you are talking to someone as if they were standing right in front of you, if you say something that you think might get that person hit you, its best not to say it.

 

[Freya/Passion]

Hunter I do agree with most of your post, But what can not be denied is that the Sonoma Forums did well....Yeah when there was a pvp post for us Brainless trolls to sit and hit each other over the head.

But now instead of keeping us pinned up in one forum we have to individually make a forum to vent or to make fun of someone.... I know you Moderators are very frustrated...But please feel our pain, its just as frustrating to us.

 

[Skullcollector]

Stratics is here to help promote Ultama Online and here to give info and conversations on the game… yes? Well by keeping this kind of conversation out of the forms(PVP thread) your discouraging pvp in game. Let me explain, When DOM was ranting here on the forms and we all were going back and forth about his outrageous claims we have lots of views. This created many more showing up at the gate to fight cop in the game. The pvp got hot and we were having some real good fights.

Then me personally and a few others tried to get people to stop that kind of talk. Tried to “be Mr. nice guy”. Well it worked for a little bit. Even here on the forms the chatter stopped. But at a cost in the game to it seemed, the pvp died. People don’t seem to want to fight someone who they like or respect. They want to fight the big mouths!

If you want to promote UO then try allowing more freedom of conversation in one thread (PVP thread). No matter how you look at it pvp needs the crap talk to get people wanting to fight! Koom-by-ya is BAD! PVP needs people like DOM and WORM to get people excited.

What happens in these forms does affect what happens in the game. If you condemn pvp conversations, jawing and light crap talking then your condemning pvp and that isn’t promoting UO.

Bottom line is some of the best reading is the jawing that goes on here in the pvp threads. When you discourage this kind of conversations you’re not only angering the pvpers but many others who like to read it for their amusement. Now I don’t want to see any mods lose their jobs but maybe only have ONE mod to handle the pvp threads. This way some of the mods that are trying to let us have more room than others they don’t get caught in the cross fire of the public ridicule when posts are removed and threads locked.

 

[Lord Hunter]

Hunter I do agree with most of your post, But what can not be denied is that the Sonoma Forums did well....Yeah when there was a pvp post for us Brainless trolls to sit and hit each other over the head.

But now instead of keeping us pinned up in one forum we have to individually make a forum to vent or to make fun of someone.... I know you Moderators are very frustrated...But please feel our pain, its just as frustrating to us.

I was actually talking about years ago when there was no PvP thread and there had never been a PvP thread.

What assurance do we mods have that IF there is another PvP thread that the rules in the thread would be followed? There has to be rules no matter how you look at it. We had a PvP thread in the past and people could not follow the very simple and lax rules that were there.

If people can behave properly just maybe, MAYBE we mods might see a reason to bring a PvP thread back. But no one has shown us that you are capable of following very simple rules for a extended amount of time.

Now back on the subject of a PvP thread.

I would like to hear some honest and thought out ideas about what the rules would be and how they would be enforced by the moderators.

Keep in mind that it would still need to follow the RoC to a degree.

Stratics is here to help promote Ultama Online and here to give info and conversations on the game… yes? Well by keeping this kind of conversation out of the forms(PVP thread) your discouraging pvp in game. Let me explain, When DOM was ranting here on the forms and we all were going back and forth about his outrageous claims we have lots of views. This created many more showing up at the gate to fight cop in the game. The pvp got hot and we were having some real good fights.

Then me personally and a few others tried to get people to stop that kind of talk. Tried to “be Mr. nice guy”. Well it worked for a little bit. Even here on the forms the chatter stopped. But at a cost in the game to it seemed, the pvp died. People don’t seem to want to fight someone who they like or respect. They want to fight the big mouths!

If you want to promote UO then try allowing more freedom of conversation in one thread (PVP thread). No matter how you look at it pvp needs the crap talk to get people wanting to fight! Koom-by-ya is BAD! PVP needs people like DOM and WORM to get people excited.

What happens in these forms does affect what happens in the game. If you condemn pvp conversations, jawing and light crap talking then your condemning pvp and that isn’t promoting UO.

Bottom line is some of the best reading is the jawing that goes on here in the pvp threads. When you discourage this kind of conversations you’re not only angering the pvpers but many others who like to read it for their amusement. Now I don’t want to see any mods lose their jobs but maybe only have ONE mod to handle the pvp threads. This way some of the mods that are trying to let us have more room than others they don’t get caught in the cross fire of the public ridicule when posts are removed and threads locked.

I would also like to remind everyone that this is not just a forum for PvPers, this is a forum for everyone that plays UO on Sonoma or is interested in coming to Sonoma.

Picture this, your a player from another shard looking to move to Sonoma and you want to check out our forum first to see how our community is and all you see is mindless bickering about whos better then who, who ganked who, whos hacking, whos cheating. Would you really want to come to this community if this was your first impression?

So lets hear it. What difference is a PvP thread really going to make besides not having all the locked threads around?

 

[Jagerstadt]

I'll listen to what people have to argue, but even now all I'm seeing is people avoiding the issue at hand. I've only seen good-faith efforts to follow the rules from a very select few posters.

@ Skull - We have to follow rules when modding just like you do when posting. As such, we can't have just one mod for any thread. Every single one of us is responsible for every post on this board.

@ RichDC - Calling someone a meatshield or talking about how much a guild sucks is a troll, which, like it or not, is against the RoC.

 

[Morph]

Jag you were in my guild at one time and you know as well as I do how PvP talk gets and you also know as well as I do that it is intended to get a stir out of others and to get a fight, with that being said how in your right minds do you see that happening with the such strict and out of means enforcement of the ROC.

I mean come on folks when i tell someone they suck it isnt because i want to fight them irl its because i want to fight them in the game and the way you Mods are choosing to see it is that I am making it personal, to an extent we are but not in the context you are putting it.

I for one have all but given up posting about anything on stratics I keep hoping for a change in the right direction but the way it looks that isnt going to happen.

So until then I will keep lurking in the shadows waiting for when things change I mean even Dor was not this overbearing.

You either have to relax or just once and for all say look guys and gals this is the way it is if you dont like it leave, I think you will see for the most part alot already have and with a final answer about the situation alot more prolly will.

 

[Skullcollector]

I would like to hear some honest and thought out ideas about what the rules would be and how they would be enforced by the moderators.

Keep in mind that it would still need to follow the RoC to a degree.

I have gone thru the ROC again section by section. There are 20 posted rules on the ROC and they are labeled A thru T. There are only 3 of the rules that ever come into question with pvp.

The first one in question is the first rule “A- be respectful at all times”.
This should be changed to “Do not personally disrespect anyone at anytime!”
Example: “your mommas so fat…”

The second one is “C- personal attacks”
This should mean how it sounds, a personal attack. If someone says, “you suck on that character,” this should be allowed. If someone says you suck in real life that should be against ROC. The first example was talking about how I play a character in game and he/she can have their opinion. The second isn’t an opinion for they don’t know me “irl” to give any opinion and that is a personal attack. Personal attack should mean ANYTHING said in a negative way against someone’s real life should be against the ROC.

The third one is “D- Trolling”
This rule needs to be more defined. If someone is calling out someone else that should be allowed. If they take it to a personal nature then it becomes against the ROC. The problem is just about anything you say about pvp can be misconstrued as a troll.
Example: “we owned you guys” is a troll depending on how you look at it. Trolling should be when someone is repeatedly badgering someone about the same thing. If you call someone out and they don’t respond or tell you no, then stop! Any further is considered trolling.

Rule J is perfect as it is written.

Let people have their fun as long as they keep the language clean and the true personal attacks out of the forms. When the mods see a conversation going south, language starting to get involved and trolling is becoming more of an issue, step in and say, “ All right, chill out or violations will be handed out”. If you do have to take action make it public on their post they violated with. (red stamp it)

Any violation will require a warning/suspension. The mod shouldn’t have to give a warning if they choose not to, just give the poster a 24 to 72 hour suspension if the person is TRUELY getting out of hand. Forget the points in the pvp thread, just temp ban them over and over if needed. Besides by giving a 24 to 72 hour ban (pending of violation) will most of the time stop the problem anyways. Most of the times its because tempers get flared and giving someone a day or two to calm down will stop a lot of the unneeded posts. Now if someone is just going to far, getting personal all the time just ban him or her for good!

Lastly put a disclaimer for all who are going to read the pvp thread that these are competitive conversations and can be offensive to some so enter at your own risk. Make it so when click on the pvp thread it takes you to a disclaimer first then you hit the “accept” button and it takes you to the thread to read or post. So no one can say they didn’t know what they were getting into. The bottom line is just sit back more often and let some of the conversations play out. I will bet a lot of them will correct themselves like they do in the game.

PS. You will always have rules being broke, its how you handle it when it happens.

 

[Ruffles]

Suggestions for rules:

Catskill's has a nice set of rules for their PVP Thread...

1. If you are in here, you better get a thick skin. If you can dish it out, you better learn to take it.

2. NO accusations of cheats, hacks, etc. (or "explanation" of same) will be allowed.

3. Do NOT make us regret this. If you get out of hand, we WILL remove this thread and we won't make another one.

4. Other threads on this board will remain under the same rules and any trolling and personal attacks will be removed from those threads and the appropriate actions taken.

From the Napa PVP posting rules...

No Personal attacks: Making derogatory statements about someone's appearance, sexual orientation, or family members. Those will get your post(s) removed, and since the attacks are personal beyond appropriate, most likely a little vacation away from posting here, if not a permanent ban.

No Accusations: Calling someone a cheater or an exploiter won't fly here either. If you have proof, take it to EA - not this or any other Stratics Forum.

Considering there are posters on the forum, that love to post with the intentions of getting a thread locked...I would suggest changing #3 to:

Do NOT make us regret this. If you get out of hand, we WILL remove the offensive posts and will suspend or terminate your privilage to post.

I do believe that IF we are allowed to have a PVP thread again, It should be relaxed on the RoC to a point...PVP threads by their very nature are not very friendly or respectful.

 

[Skullcollector]

I would suggest changing #3 to:

Do NOT make us regret this. If you get out of hand, we WILL remove the offensive posts and will suspend or terminate your privilage to post.

This is a problem here. Sometime the post that needs action doesn’t get caught right away. Now several respond to that post and their responses are clean and have good points. They come and remove the questionable post and now they have to remove these other posts because now they make no sense because new readers wouldn’t know what they were responding to. It’s those I get sick of getting. The questionable post was fine, no one cussing or getting personal but there was trolling so they removed it.

They should only remove a post that breaks the ROC –J. If I seen someone saying racial slurs or using foul language, I wouldn’t post. I would know it would get cleaned up. But if someone calls someone an idiot (personal attack) I would think they would tag the post as a violation and allow any responses to remain as long as the responses remain within the PVP ROC.

 

[Quenchant]

Suggestions for rules:

Catskill's has a nice set of rules for their PVP Thread...

1. If you are in here, you better get a thick skin. If you can dish it out, you better learn to take it.

2. NO accusations of cheats, hacks, etc. (or "explanation" of same) will be allowed.

3. Do NOT make us regret this. If you get out of hand, we WILL remove this thread and we won't make another one.

4. Other threads on this board will remain under the same rules and any trolling and personal attacks will be removed from those threads and the appropriate actions taken.

From the Napa PVP posting rules...

No Personal attacks: Making derogatory statements about someone's appearance, sexual orientation, or family members. Those will get your post(s) removed, and since the attacks are personal beyond appropriate, most likely a little vacation away from posting here, if not a permanent ban.

No Accusations: Calling someone a cheater or an exploiter won't fly here either. If you have proof, take it to EA - not this or any other Stratics Forum.

Considering there are posters on the forum, that love to post with the intentions of getting a thread locked...I would suggest changing #3 to:

Do NOT make us regret this. If you get out of hand, we WILL remove the offensive posts and will suspend or terminate your privilage to post.

I do believe that IF we are allowed to have a PVP thread again, It should be relaxed on the RoC to a point...PVP threads by their very nature are not very friendly or respectful.

Those don't seem to different from what was in the Sonoma PvP thread. You were instructed to read these rules in the title of the thread.

DISCLAIMER: In posting in this thread, you agree to honor the following conditions.

1. There will be relaxed moderation in the area of personal attacks. However, any discussions the moderators view as 'out of hand' are subject to removal. In addition, posters who take part in such discussions are liable for discipline.

2. Posts are to be restricted to in-game discussions only. Attacks on the real-life character of others will not be tolerated.

3. Discussions involving unapproved third-party programs, exploits, or any other objects/activities that could be described as cheats and/or hacks, as well as discussions accusing other players/guilds of taking part in said activities, are strictly forbidden.

4. Discriminatory and/or racist remarks will not be tolerated in this thread, nor anywhere else on the Stratics network.

5. Pictures and/or alternative media that apply to said conditions will be seen as violations, and will be treated as such.

6. The moderators reserve the right, should they choose, to take disciplinary action against any posters who abuse any other section of the UO Stratics Rules of Conduct. If you have not read the RoC, please review it here.

Q

 

[Busters]

in all fairness, if u read most of the other boards, u will see that they get far worse then what we have here, why not do everything equal?

 

[Invertigo]

Why not just post our discussions on another forum and hijack their pvp

 

[Jagerstadt]

Jag you were in my guild at one time and you know as well as I do how PvP talk gets and you also know as well as I do that it is intended to get a stir out of others and to get a fight, with that being said how in your right minds do you see that happening with the such strict and out of means enforcement of the ROC.

I mean come on folks when i tell someone they suck it isnt because i want to fight them irl its because i want to fight them in the game and the way you Mods are choosing to see it is that I am making it personal, to an extent we are but not in the context you are putting it.

I for one have all but given up posting about anything on stratics I keep hoping for a change in the right direction but the way it looks that isnt going to happen.

So until then I will keep lurking in the shadows waiting for when things change I mean even Dor was not this overbearing.

You either have to relax or just once and for all say look guys and gals this is the way it is if you dont like it leave, I think you will see for the most part alot already have and with a final answer about the situation alot more prolly will.

This is exactly why we kept putting PvP thread after PvP thread up after they kept getting locked. And this is exactly why we kept the last one open so long. But after having to ban so many people for violating the extremely lax PvP thread rules, it was just decided that the PvP thread needed to go bye bye

 

[Lord Sir Scott]

After reading all of this posted responses, imo, what i think should happen is this...
a few years ago there was a mod here named Dor, And there was a issue that was very much like we have here. An Issue in regards to Moding of posts,mod issue,Same Shard & Shard Mod or some other such Problem... As a Fix Dor was Moved to another Stratics Forum.
And do belive She still is there happy to be of service To Stratics....
Perhaps This Shards Fourms Mods Should Be Willing to Change, As we have no dedicated PVP Post And Let other Mods that Are Dedicated to Service to Stratics And not A Sonoma Player... Step In. And perhaps The Posts Here will be slightly Less if not all locked as Much.
IMO Any Mods Should be willing to follow there Rules in regards to ROC.
Hence any poster is subject to the same ROC... So it should not matter if your a mod here or on a completely different game.
There will always be something to mod with the ROC here Period.
The smack will always be posted here as here is the only place we have, take it in game is not a excuse to lock a post... We as old schoolers (And everyone here who posts is) Need a vent place.
Or as a fix perhaps stratics could make some more fourms for such talk. We cant make them only you guys on your end can, and then just paste and post a disclaimer. Works for 100's of other places...

This is my Personal Thoughts on it and in no means is anything i posted here to be taken
as a personal Attack, It is just what i think should happen for a change..

 

[Skullcollector]

Those don't seem to different from what was in the Sonoma PvP thread. You were instructed to read these rules in the title of the thread.

DISCLAIMER: In posting in this thread, you agree to honor the following conditions.

1. There will be relaxed moderation in the area of personal attacks. However, any discussions the moderators view as 'out of hand' are subject to removal. In addition, posters who take part in such discussions are liable for discipline.

2. Posts are to be restricted to in-game discussions only. Attacks on the real-life character of others will not be tolerated.

3. Discussions involving unapproved third-party programs, exploits, or any other objects/activities that could be described as cheats and/or hacks, as well as discussions accusing other players/guilds of taking part in said activities, are strictly forbidden.

4. Discriminatory and/or racist remarks will not be tolerated in this thread, nor anywhere else on the Stratics network.

5. Pictures and/or alternative media that apply to said conditions will be seen as violations, and will be treated as such.

6. The moderators reserve the right, should they choose, to take disciplinary action against any posters who abuse any other section of the UO Stratics Rules of Conduct. If you have not read the RoC, please review it here.

Q

Are these ALL the rules in the pvp thread or in addition to the standard ROC? Because the BIGGEST problem that keeps getting things lock for the most part is “Trolling” violation. If these rules are in addition to the standard ROC you only modified the “personal attacks” rule, that’s it. The rest of those rules are already part of the standard ROC. You just clarified them is all.

You have to modify trolling also or there will never be a pvp thread not being locked. Also “being respectful at all times”, another one that needs to be modified or once again you will have locks over and over. Just tell people don’t be disrespectful (case by case basis).

 

[Braun]

This is exactly why we kept putting PvP thread after PvP thread up after they kept getting locked. And this is exactly why we kept the last one open so long. But after having to ban so many people for calling people all kinds of crazy **** irl, and the discussions of who's gonna **** who, and who ****ed who's mom, after CONSTANT warnings to drop it, it was just decided that the PvP thread needed to go bye bye.

The real kicker was we had to be extremely lenient just so half the people that posted in there didn't get perma banned. And people took advantage of that fact and pretty much said **** the rules, I'ma do what I want!

As an innocent observer of the PVP forums and this thread, I found it a "must reply" at once thing. Then, I took some time to really think about the Moderators post and as it has been some time now since i read his post and thought about it, I do feel, I am ready to reply.

Jag, You, my good man, after screaming over and over and over and over the ROC, broke the first one the mods on this board choose to use, HAVE RESPECT AT ALL TIMES. Could you not have used much more PROPER terms than the ones you used...?? I, personally , to say the very least, was offended and quite shocked. To have yourself on such a high level as to have the PVP people of Sonoma begging for their place to post, then to simply say **** every chance you got, in every sentence you replied with, was uncalled for. Simply put, I lost alot of respect for you Sir.

I realize your time spent doing the job you do for the sonoma boards isn't an easy one. However, you seem to cut and paste the ROC for all to see, memorize and abide by, quite well. Have you taken the time to really read them, memorize them and abide by them?? May I ask, why then, did you feel it was appropriate to reply to the post in the manner that you did?
You came down from the Moderator Pedistul you have yourself on. Down to the level of the PVP posters you scold for doing exactly what you did. Your post was not an example of anything. You did not use it as an example. You just said what you felt without thinking of the consequences. Which, is what most of the pvp posters also do. Maybe your post should have gone more like, " having to ban people for 72 hours for saying all kinds of not nice things to people irl", or how about " discussions of who's gonna screw who" etc.....When you place yourself in front of all to see, shouting the rules with cut and paste accuracy, one must keep oneself righteously clean, otherwise .... spit happens.

Now, I am sure, this post won't make it thru for long. Scolding mods is not a good thing. I felt the need to say something as I noticed YOUR post is still standing. Someone that posted the very same thing would have gotten this thread locked in a New York second.

The real kicker Is ... after reading your last sentence...I do feel you did exactly what your sentence stated the others do. You said **** the rules, I'ma do what I want!

I post this with no animosties toward any moderators or posters. I post with the intention of trying to make you see where you went totally wrong in your choice of description in what happened. I truly feel, you could have in your capacity of being the teacher of the scriptures, chosen a better way of handling the situation and your post.

Tips hat.

 

[Jagerstadt]

As an innocent observer of the PVP forums and this thread, I found it a "must reply" at once thing. Then, I took some time to really think about the Moderators post and as it has been some time now since i read his post and thought about it, I do feel, I am ready to reply.

Jag, You, my good man, after screaming over and over and over and over the ROC, broke the first one the mods on this board choose to use, HAVE RESPECT AT ALL TIMES. Could you not have used much more PROPER terms than the ones you used...?? I, personally , to say the very least, was offended and quite shocked. To have yourself on such a high level as to have the PVP people of Sonoma begging for their place to post, then to simply say **** every chance you got, in every sentence you replied with, was uncalled for. Simply put, I lost alot of respect for you Sir.

I realize your time spent doing the job you do for the sonoma boards isn't an easy one. However, you seem to cut and paste the ROC for all to see, memorize and abide by, quite well. Have you taken the time to really read them, memorize them and abide by them?? May I ask, why then, did you feel it was appropriate to reply to the post in the manner that you did?
You came down from the Moderator Pedistul you have yourself on. Down to the level of the PVP posters you scold for doing exactly what you did. Your post was not an example of anything. You did not use it as an example. You just said what you felt without thinking of the consequences. Which, is what most of the pvp posters also do. Maybe your post should have gone more like, " having to ban people for 72 hours for saying all kinds of not nice things to people irl", or how about " discussions of who's gonna screw who" etc.....When you place yourself in front of all to see, shouting the rules with cut and paste accuracy, one must keep oneself righteously clean, otherwise .... spit happens.

Now, I am sure, this post won't make it thru for long. Scolding mods is not a good thing. I felt the need to say something as I noticed YOUR post is still standing. Someone that posted the very same thing would have gotten this thread locked in a New York second.

The real kicker Is ... after reading your last sentence...I do feel you did exactly what your sentence stated the others do. You said **** the rules, I'ma do what I want!

I post this with no animosties toward any moderators or posters. I post with the intention of trying to make you see where you went totally wrong in your choice of description in what happened. I truly feel, you could have in your capacity of being the teacher of the scriptures, chosen a better way of handling the situation and your post.

Tips hat.

I apologize, and will change it post haste. I will advise you as I advise anyone else to please forward any complaints to the admins via e-mail, so that they may take any corrective action. As you can see, it can be hard to moderate one's self at times.

 

[Jagerstadt]

After reading all of this posted responses, imo, what i think should happen is this...
a few years ago there was a mod here named Dor, And there was a issue that was very much like we have here. An Issue in regards to Moding of posts,mod issue,Same Shard & Shard Mod or some other such Problem... As a Fix Dor was Moved to another Stratics Forum.
And do belive She still is there happy to be of service To Stratics....
Perhaps This Shards Fourms Mods Should Be Willing to Change, As we have no dedicated PVP Post And Let other Mods that Are Dedicated to Service to Stratics And not A Sonoma Player... Step In. And perhaps The Posts Here will be slightly Less if not all locked as Much.
IMO Any Mods Should be willing to follow there Rules in regards to ROC.
Hence any poster is subject to the same ROC... So it should not matter if your a mod here or on a completely different game.
There will always be something to mod with the ROC here Period.
The smack will always be posted here as here is the only place we have, take it in game is not a excuse to lock a post... We as old schoolers (And everyone here who posts is) Need a vent place.
Or as a fix perhaps stratics could make some more fourms for such talk. We cant make them only you guys on your end can, and then just paste and post a disclaimer. Works for 100's of other places...

This is my Personal Thoughts on it and in no means is anything i posted here to be taken
as a personal Attack, It is just what i think should happen for a change..

Dor changed positions for other reasons, not because she was a citizen of Sonoma. Actually, it is quite the opposite. Stratics tries to place mods relevant to the topic of the forum so that they have a better understanding of what is being discussed.

As for your idea on creating more forums, it sounds great to me. However, you'd have to take that up with the admins, as it's way above our heads.

 

[Jagerstadt]

Are these ALL the rules in the pvp thread or in addition to the standard ROC? Because the BIGGEST problem that keeps getting things lock for the most part is “Trolling” violation. If these rules are in addition to the standard ROC you only modified the “personal attacks” rule, that’s it. The rest of those rules are already part of the standard ROC. You just clarified them is all.

You have to modify trolling also or there will never be a pvp thread not being locked. Also “being respectful at all times”, another one that needs to be modified or once again you will have locks over and over. Just tell people don’t be disrespectful (case by case basis).

That's exactly what we did. With the earliest PvP threads we just told people that the 'no trolling' rule didn't apply, but after a couple threads it became obvious that the extra clarification was needed. It pretty much states that the mods reserve the right to hand out infractions or lock the thread whenever deemed necessary, which was covering our own rears.

The rules weren't the problem. The issue was people wanting to dish out RL slurs and accusations of hacking after repeated, numerous warnings.

 

[Skullcollector]

That's exactly what we did. With the earliest PvP threads we just told people that the 'no trolling' rule didn't apply, but after a couple threads it became obvious that the extra clarification was needed. It pretty much states that the mods reserve the right to hand out infractions or lock the thread whenever deemed necessary, which was covering our own rears.

The rules weren't the problem. The issue was people wanting to dish out RL slurs and accusations of hacking after repeated, numerous warnings.

If I were the mod and I gave you a warning to stop the talk about hacking because that is violating the PVP ROC and you did it again...ever...you’re gone for min 72 hours. If you repeat again after that, 30 days, after that for same infraction, lifetime bans. If you post a picture of yourself using a hack then you should be banned as if you were talking about it.

No one should be breaking the rules if all you have to do in not talk about hacks, don’t get irl personal and keep the language clean, talk away. If you need to use the symbols *#@# to explain a word that shouldn’t be said, find a new word that isn’t offensive to make your point.

If a conversation is getting out of hand give a warning and if that doesn’t stop it, hand out vacations. By doing a 24-72 hour ban on someone who is getting out of hand will most of the time solve the problems, for at least the length of the ban. They will come back to post and maybe after getting banned and left out of any conversations a few times they will use better words to explain their points. If your getting banned with these laxed rules then you don’t deserve to post.

Don’t shut the entire thread down because of a few. Get rid of the few...

 

[RichDC]

If you post a picture of yourself using a hack then you should be banned as if you were talking about it.

Don’t shut the entire thread down because of a few. Get rid of the few...

This bit is the only bit i disagreed with in your post, accusations of cheating is unacceptable, yes. But if the person is stupid enough to post a picture SHOWING them cheating it no longer becomes and accusation. It becomes a statement of fact. As such that person should be allowed to be ridiculed for:

a) cheating(so long as the name of the cheat isnt revealed)

b) being stupid enough for posting it in the first place.

 

[Magdalene]

I apologize, and will change it post haste. I will advise you as I advise anyone else to please forward any complaints to the admins via e-mail, so that they may take any corrective action. As you can see, it can be hard to moderate one's self at times.

Admins exist... no, really.
And they are watching.

 

[Braun]

I apologize, and will change it post haste. I will advise you as I advise anyone else to please forward any complaints to the admins via e-mail, so that they may take any corrective action. As you can see, it can be hard to moderate one's self at times.

Thank You .... I just wanted you to see exactly how easily things get out of control and how easily we post without thinking. Great job. You handled this situation quite well and I do appreciate not being removed due to the breaking of the rules that I did.

*Breaks out great big can of extra heavy, flame retardant super glue and begins to piece by piece reinforce Jag's Moderator's Pedistul.*

 

[Invertigo]

Is there perchance a way to petition admins for an open thread that is like rated M and that wont be moderated, give the primary disclaimer post and the whole must read etc etc? Serious question.

 

[Lord Hunter]

Is there perchance a way to petition admins for an open thread that is like rated M and that wont be moderated, give the primary disclaimer post and the whole must read etc etc? Serious question.

Unfortunetly all threads need to be moderated and have some set of rules. Otherwise things would get... rather.. ya know... weird. Think of all the stuff that would be posted in a unmoderated thread. Even if it was rated M there would be no way to keep people that shouldnt veiw that type of material out of there.

As far as I know there is no Thread in the stratics forums that is not moderated in some form or another. I could however be wrong though and the correct person to ask would indeed be a admin.

 

[Jagerstadt]

That is what the UO Off-Topic [No Holds Barred] forums are for.

 

[Lord Hunter]

That is what the UO Off-Topic [No Holds Barred] forums are for.

I stand corrected!

Wow, that is a erm, interesting forum.

 

[Magdalene]

Is there perchance a way to petition admins for an open thread that is like rated M and that wont be moderated, give the primary disclaimer post and the whole must read etc etc? Serious question.

There are examples of less moderated threads, yes.

Not unmoderated, because some things cannot go unchecked (ex. porn, racists and other attacks, RL stuff being posted and used against posters, unkosher links, descriptions of exploits and cheats and the like).

There are things that are a total no-no on Stratics, even on OT/OT - that forum is moderated too, although differently.

So, if you want a free for all namecalling and insult thread - the answer is no.

A PvP thread on the other hand is a matter of gentlemen's agreement between posters and moderators - the easily offended and thin skinned stay away, mods apply a bit more lax rules and everyone's happy as long as all parties involved respect the agreement.