FLYING NEEDS TO TAKE A FOLLOWER SPACE

[Multani]

To be able to fly and carry a greater dragon behind you is not fair. Unlike animal form you can also cast. This needs to be adjusted so flying takes 1 follower space and skillless tamers aren't even more overpowered.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

/agrees

 

[PASmountaindew]

I think taming needs to be left alone. At least this way tamers will be on even par with the moving shot ninja form archers

 

[Ender]

You know, I'm not completely sure, but I am pretty close to completely sure, that if you're in a form you can't use any special moves.



Agreed with topic title, and make animal form take a slot too.

 

[Tjalle]

You know, I'm not completely sure, but I am pretty close to completely sure, that if you're in a form you can't use any special moves.

You can´t...

 

[Taylor]

Nah. Let the tamers be.

 

[Multani]

If you are not content with the wording of this, then flying should = -1 max followers.

You can bola the ninja running shot archers.

Bolaing a gargoyle when you have a greater dragon up your ass is different.

 

[Taylor]

I believe you can dismount flying gargoyles.

 

[Ailish]

How about letting tamers have all the followers they want ... IN TRAM. But make flying take a follower slot the minute you go thru the gate to Fel.

The stated, BY DEVELOPERS, balance to Greater Dragons was that you had to be on foot to use them. The means that a flying gargoyle is working outside of balance. Simple facts, like it or not (I personally don't care, but facts are facts).

 

[Taylor]

All they followers they want? Really?

 

[Ailish]

lol Well, it was that way at one time I don't play there, so it wouldnt really bother me

 

[Taylor]

Hehe. I was matching your factiousness with like factiousness.

 

[Lady Michelle]

To be able to fly and carry a greater dragon behind you is not fair. Unlike animal form you can also cast. This needs to be adjusted so flying takes 1 follower space and skillless tamers aren't even more overpowered.

Why would I want to fly and carry my greater dragon you know how heavy those greater dragons are have you tried picking one up.
Tamers are not skillless we have many skills we choose not to use them. We choose to use our pets instead

 

[Kri]

How about letting tamers have all the followers they want ... IN TRAM.

Ahhh... I remember when this was the case. You just think you have a problem with tamers with one greater dragon now... there was a time (before control slots - prior to publish 16) when a tamer could have a small army of dragons. My miner still has night terrors thanks to those guys.

As a legendary tamer myself now I can say without bias that tamers need NO MORE control slots. A few more stable slots would be nice though!

And, more to the topic, the trade off for having such a powerful pet is the inability to move fast (make a getaway ) Allowing gargoyles to sidestep this trade off is only going to have more folks complaining about tamers (which should be the last thing any tamer wants.)

 

[Samaira]

...the trade off for having such a powerful pet is the inability to move fast (make a getaway ) Allowing gargoyles to sidestep this trade off is only going to have more folks complaining about tamers (which should be the last thing any tamer wants.)

QFT

 

[Kellgory]

I've come to the conclusion that the dev's are clueless when it comes to PVP and fel. Could someone draw them a map or tell them to revoke their young status so that they can come to fel and see for themselves.

 

[Kri]

QFT

Spoiler

I'm not sure what you consider trolling about that... the issue affects me as a tamer (who will probably become a gargoyle once the expansion goes live.) I am simply stating what I see in the best interests of myself and tamers as a whole on this matter. I would prefer to avoid future imbalance concerns which would almost assuredly end in a bevy of animosity towards the profession.

Whoops... I'm used to that abbreviation meaning quit freaking trolling! My apologies Samaira and thanks for clearing that up for me, Ailish!

 

[Ailish]

Kri ... QFT means Quoted For Truth - Samaira was agreeing with you.

 

[Kiminality]

Needs more caps, tbh.

I recall there was a string in a patch's localisation files, at one point, they hinted that you simply wouldn't be able to command a greater dragon in animal form.

I've always disagree with a penalty for animal form, since there's invested skill points. It seemed like a reasonable trade-off, really. Animal form takes a skill investment, but no follower cost for mounted rate, while a mount is basically free.
Before the changes that allowed "dismounting" animal form, perhaps. But the ability to dismount, combined with being unable to cast or use specials, makes it seem that further "balancing" would only serve to nerf it into oblivion.
Now, flying is free. You get it from square one, with no skill investment, no follower slot investment, no restrictions of casting. It's mechanically animal form, or a mount, without any of the penalties.

So, being able to command a greater dragon, while moving at penalty-less mounted rate positively stinks of imbalance.
However, the idea of flapping your wings magically equalling a follower is as contextually defective an idea as "becoming" an animal doing so (although I always imagined it would be a little more like a martial art "form", than odd polymorphing).
-1 to max followers, or a simple restriction to controlling 5-slot pets, when flying or in animal form.

Or, make riding and flying a skill that has to be raised, with ninjistu-esque benefits along the way, to make them mechanically equivalent. That way, there's no free speed buffs.

 

[WarUltima]

Flying is basically an uninterruptable nearly instant(you dont even get frozen in place, and it flying initiates faster than 4 Fast Cast Ninjitsu form), mounting timer ethy.

There's ZERO penalty to flying other than the additional stam regen (The stam regen penalty applies to running speed animal form also btw) requirement which is a joke with imbuing, and people carry tons of pots now also.

Now whenever I hear my guildies in vent saying dreadhorse is "stupid", I tell them to wait till you see flying super dragon dismount tamers.

Would you like to have free "enhanced" ethy with zero skill investment, instant mounting, full specials/full casting capability especially when you PvP???

I present you, FLYING.

*Getting ready to alter token my human dismount all kill archer tamer into a gargoyle dismount throwing tamer*

It's amazing how DEVs dont see the problems...

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
There's ZERO penalty to flying other than the additional stam regen....

Nice No Penalties EXCEPT THE KILLER EXCEPTION.

Right, lets really KILL OFF THE TAMERS.

Lets NOT let them RIDE ANYTHING.
Lets Take a Slot for Flying.
Lets FORCE them to swap STUFF OUT FOR STAMINA REGEN either items and/or FOCUS skill.

Then lets resume the WHINE OF GREATER DRAGONS ARE TO POWERFUL.

Meaning, NO I do not want to change anything I do. I want EA/Mythic/UOTeam to MAKE ME UBER.

And whining about Flying on Retribution where you Camp the two PvP zones, check absolutely NOTHING OUT. You sit tight and PK anyone coming in the zone to Look things over. As though some how this makes you ..... well something but I doubt seriously we would come to any agreement other than to agree to disagree.

It's amazing how DEVs dont see the problems...

He he, it is even MORE AMAZING how players ignore absolutely everything, so they can say "Whine this is such a Game Stopping thing and the Dev's don't have 2 brain cells to rub together to form a thought"

I am reminded of a classic argument, "I say a thing is a problem, therefor it is a Problem, If you can not see that then your a Moron".

 

[Vyal]

u telling me tamers arn't over power'd ?

Doh PVP revolves around greaters, tamers with archery and ninja can't be killed unlike any other temp where it's a fair fight tamers that are ninja archers with greaters all everywhere and pvp has become stupid as anything.

Nerf dragon, nerg flying it's way to fast faster then mounts with dragons and casting ctfo already anyone can make a tamer so you get 50 nubs running around with greaters who have no skill at all at pvp. ITS STUPID..

 

[Darhon]

Toggling to fly mode freezes you and it take time, little less than ethy, but take time.
Flying gargoyle can be dismounted and cannot fly for dismount debuff period.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

I would tend to agree with this,but on the flip side I would want to see the stamina drain tuned down a notch or two also. Gargs are fliers by nature,right,so why does flying tire them so quickly?

 

[neverplayuo]

I've come to the conclusion that the dev's are clueless when it comes to PVP and fel. Could someone draw them a map or tell them to revoke their young status so that they can come to fel and see for themselves.

lol so true

 

[deraiky]

Only problem will be the fellow no dachi guy

 

[Vexxed]

DREAD MARE or GREATER DRAGON being backed up by a Mounted speed Flying Gargoyle that can CAST spells and use SPECIAL MOVES is broken..... Greater dragons were bad enough when the tamer had simply ninjitsu... Now this setup can completely replace the ninjitsu skill with something to be even more effective & gets the ability to both CAST & use SPECIAL moves at mounted speed......

lol.. Don't forget that GREATERS and DREADS both still use fire breath even when paralyzed ... Soooooooo broken..

All kill = No skill

Tamers = Autopilot PvP (If I wanted to fight UO's AI.. I'd go PvM)

 

[WarUltima]

Sigh, people can be so clueless.
You need same amount of stam regen in running form. And when is the last time you see a doggie archer riding a dreadmare? Or you think fly should be exception? Dont be so clueless and biased.

So ninja form takes actual skill, cant use any specials and cant cast yet has same BIG ASS STAM REQUIREMENT AS FLYING? And you arent being biased at all right? You just proved yourself so clueless. Human has +2 stam regen for free so it seem easier for them to get away with the stam regen problem. How about you actually learn something about UO and make an elf and wear no +stam reg and run in running form see how is it different than flying? Yes other than the full special/casting and zero(0) skill requirement flying is as weak as animal form right? Ok... sigh kiddies thesedays.

Please go test animal form on elf because you spit out more bullcrap. Oh i probably have more tamers than you do too. 2 pvp tamers (1 mage 1 archer) and 2 pvm real 120 taming skill pvm tamer (bard and weaver).

 

[mandosa-nice]

Maybe you need just an item for paralyse the pet for a few second on Fel.

After if you don't loose against a tamer, just go out then fight...

Tamer is the most harder skill to raise on UO. Dexter is very easy...

 

[Sneaky Que]

Easy fix - All G dragons are removed from the game, then re-added as wild only monsters, ie they cannot be tamed.

Why tamers (who were already very overpowered in both PvM and PvP) were given a pet as strong as greater dragons can be, is completely unexplainable.

Sure this fix is going to upset a few people who have trained up a greater or 2 (myself included), but it is for the long term good of the game.

In PvM the greaters make it far to easy to sit in one spot and farm, and farm, and farm... Sure there are other pets you can do this with, but none are even close to the GD in power or survivorbility.

In PvP, well, if you have ever encountered a GD in fel you will know just how unbalanced they are. If the tamer (or one of his friends) is a dismounter, basically your only hope is to teleport away very fast from it (assuming your on a mage) or have lots of friends there healing/invising you to get rid of it. If you are very quick you can kill the tamer before his pet gets you, which is probably the easiest way. Even whilst on your mount (which is rare when PvP tamers are involved) they need to be kept at a good distance.

PvP tamers were already OP enough thanks to Rune Bugs, but they are child's play to deal with in comparasen to the GDs.

...either that or nerf the G dragons into the ground, but that would kinda of defeat the purpose of them being 'greater' I have nothing against the GDs, they should just not be able to be controlled by players, they should be something lurking deep in dungeons. In fact, if they were to be uncontrollable by players, I would be in favour of making them even stronger.

Oh, and before people start saying im anti tamers or whatever, no. I'm not. I have 2 tamers myself, one of which is a 'tram' tamer (luck suit etc) the other is a stealth/ninja battle tamer (used for both PvM and sometimes PvP). Each of the tamers has a fully trianed GD.

 

[Tinsil]

AGREED. I do have a tamer myself too.

Taking out Great Dragons would be fine though also.

Please Devs make flying take a control slot at least.

 

[Vyal]

REMOVE GREATER DRAGONS

 

[Coppelia]

Not big enough imo.


Flying has to take 1 control slot, as the thread says.

 

[kalzaketh]

easiest answer, come sept 8 buy the expansion, make yourself agargoyle char, learn the art of throwing weapons, then when you see atamer in fel fly away very fast.

 

[Taylor]

*chuckle* I can think of a few ppl who'd be upset if they removed greaters.

 

[RichDC]

That thing about Making ninja form require a control slot nerfing it into oblivion. Is possibly the most stupid stealth/ninja/tamer comment ive ever heard!!

That is the only template that would be nerfed!!!

Real ninjas dont rely on frikin GD's anyways!

Flying to take a slot too, anything that improves speed to mounted rate and/or gives additional benefits (dog form) should require a slot.

Once again, the only template affected would be Greater dragon PvPers.

 

[Kiminality]

That thing about Making ninja form require a control slot nerfing it into oblivion. Is possibly the most stupid stealth/ninja/tamer comment ive ever heard!!

That is the only template that would be nerfed!!!

Real ninjas dont rely on frikin GD's anyways!

Flying to take a slot too, anything that improves speed to mounted rate and/or gives additional benefits (dog form) should require a slot.

Once again, the only template affected would be Greater dragon PvPers.

Because non-PvP tamers will never use animal form to move around quickly.
But, we can all keep pretending that all the PvP nerf du jours don't impact the rest of the game.

 

[WarUltima]

Because non-PvP tamers will never use animal form to move around quickly.
But, we can all keep pretending that all the PvP nerf du jours don't impact the rest of the game.

And I am sure flying is just like animal form where it requires high level (100+ in ninjitsu), and do not allow specials, and do not allow casting, takes casting time, and cost mana to cast, and might fizzle... oh wait...

And your point?

 

[Kiminality]

And I am sure flying is just like animal form where it requires high level (100+ in ninjitsu), and do not allow specials, and do not allow casting, takes casting time, and cost mana to cast, and might fizzle... oh wait...

And your point?

I need to spell it out? Or are you just so desperate to try and be right that you're passing over the whole "comprehension" stage?

RichDC says:
1.) Animal form and Flying should take 1 follower slot.
2.) Only PvP templates will be affected.

I say:
1.) Non-PvP tamers use animal forms.
2.) Non-PvP tamers would be affected.

You say:
Actually, I don't get how anything you said applies to that.
Try harder.

 

[WarUltima]

I need to spell it out? Or are you just so desperate to try and be right that you're passing over the whole "comprehension" stage?

RichDC says:
1.) Animal form and Flying should take 1 follower slot.
2.) Only PvP templates will be affected.

I say:
1.) Non-PvP tamers use animal forms.
2.) Non-PvP tamers would be affected.

You say:
Actually, I don't get how anything you said applies to that.
Try harder.

1/10

 

[Kiminality]

So, you don't have a worthwhile response?
Predictable.

 

[WarUltima]

So, you don't have a worthwhile response?
Predictable.

No point talking to a troll that wants nothing but some self beneficial selfish people that'd rather "kill PvP" to preserve overpowered "PvM"

I was trying not to feed the troll.

 

[Kiminality]

No point talking to a troll that wants nothing but some self beneficial selfish people that'd rather "kill PvP" to preserve overpowered "PvM"

I was trying not to feed the troll.

By trolling?
Good job!

Also, read my posts, and you'll see that you're completely wrong in your assumptions about me.
I honestly couldn't give two craps which side "wins" on flying or animal form control slots. My objections stem from:
1.) False assumption. That the change won't affect non PvPers.
2.) Forms/Flying taking a control slot. While mechanically similar, having it reduce max followers to 4 would make more logical sense.

I don't find this back-and-force at all entertaining, but you just keep making these ridiculous replies. Making it personal, and getting all off-topic.
It's quite sad, really.

 

[Altec]

The stated, BY DEVELOPERS, balance to Greater Dragons was that you had to be on foot to use them. The means that a flying gargoyle is working outside of balance. Simple facts, like it or not (I personally don't care, but facts are facts).

They also stated that greater dragons were not intended for pvp. lol