Faction war horse imbalance. Pic included.

[WarUltima]

Apperently Minax has better warhorse than Shadowload.

I wish I could gather the stats for CoM and TB horses. Unfortunately, I only play two shards and I am in Minax on one and SL on the other.

Nuff said here are the pictures.
If you guys can confirm the faction horse imbalance please post something here. Hope I am not the only one noticing the difference.

So DEVs wtfmate? Minax on carebear mode?

Minax Horse:

Shadowload Horse:

Basically both faction horses has identical skills, thats a little better than a regular horse. However, Minax horse has 100 more str and 60 extra hp compared to shadowload counterpart.

Why?

 

[Littleblue]

Maybe the stronger warhorse has been given some training sessions by his/her owner.

 

[Cho hag]

the str doesn't increase from training...

I have a fully trained sl horse (skillwise)

and it has the same hp's as the one showing in that picture

and 60hp more is basically 2-3 hits/spells more requared to kill the minax horse than it takes to kill the sl horse.

which gives a slight advantage when being dismounted as it takes longer to kill the pet for the attacker...

 

[WarUltima]

Maybe the stronger warhorse has been given some training sessions by his/her owner.

Littleblue. I do train my horses thats why the Minax horse gained some mana but it has nothing to do with HP/Str figures. If you want I can post a screenshot of my fully trained SL horse (which has 300str/125dex/125int and 180HP)

If you wan the extreme example but also a fact: An UNTRAINED minax horse will have 100 more str and 60 more hp than a FULLY trained SL horse. It's a fact.

And in case you are not a tamer, stats do NOT gain over 125 from training. If your pet came with 250 str(over 125) you can train it a million hours and it will still sit at 250 str. HP figure only increase from STR.

As you see minax horse starts with 400str/240hp and SL horse has 300str/180hp. BOTH horses has str over 125 so it will NEVER increase or decrease thru training and Str not gaining from training means HP will not change either.

In short, A (fresh or fully trained) Minax horse will ALWAYS has 100 more strength and 60 more HP than a SL horse (fresh or fully training)

Minax horse is simply, stronger and lasts longer.

My question is why Minax gets the carebear mode while everyone else gets shafted?

 

[MalagAste]

I had to pull out my two green warhorses just to look and indeed both mine are only 180..... I find that interesting. But I'm fairly certain both mine are relatively old, I've had them for years.

 

[Lord Kotan]

Maybe it's an old horse? I remeber war horses used to be almost as strong as non-magical nightmares (I remember people hunting in shame with them when I first started)

 

[WarUltima]

Maybe it's an old horse? I remeber war horses used to be almost as strong as non-magical nightmares (I remember people hunting in shame with them when I first started)

Both of my minax and SL horses are pretty new. Got them both about the same time thanks for the 4-hour sigil corruption time my guild was able to get vendor on both shards.

None of them are older than 20 days. In fact I do not have an old warhorse to lore.

I have purchased total of 8 SL horses (2 for each character) and 3 Minax horses. All minax horses have 240hp/400str and all SL horses have 180hp/300str. I also checked the base damage resists and skills. Thay are all identical, minax and SL.

Basically,
Minax warhorse = (Shadowload warhorse +60hp +100str)

I am pretty sure the faction horse imbalance is current. All the new minax horses will be better than at least SL horses. Feel free to correct me.

I just wish a DEV would answer the question why giving Minax better horse?
I found this out when I was PvPing (and killing people's horses) and I was wondering why it took me 2 to 3 more lightings to kill a Minax horse than killing a SL horse, so I went ahead and lored them and this is what I found out.

 

[Littleblue]

I've never trained a warhorse before, it was just the first explaination I thought of. *grins*

Seems it would be a better idea to have all the warhorses have equal stats like you guys are saying.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

This is not good. I just switched from Minax to SL.

I hope they fix this.

 

[Tom_Builder]

MAybe some spawn with better stats when you buy them. Did you try buying a new one and seeing if it has better stats. If so you may have to keep getting news ones untill you get one with good stats.

 

[Cho hag]

so so far just sl that got crap horses unless com also has crap horses...

 

[spud]

Nope, my CoM nag has 400 str, 240 hp.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Just checked a CoM warhorse that I bought bare minimum 2 years ago, most likely 3+....

240 hp
125 stam
0 mana

400 str
125 dex
51 int
70.1 bar difficulty

Resists: 45-33-35-37-36


This is not trained one bit.

 

[Lady Arwen]

This is not good. I just switched from Minax to SL.

I hope they fix this.

Me too

 

[Cho hag]

lovely so com, tb and mx war horses have 240hp

but sl's have 180

that seems fair...

 

[Poo]

ive only ever seen one person in the entire time factions have been around use their war horses in battle.
that was a fella named Blatz on Sonoma shard.
he had 5 of them all fully trained.

so in all the years and all the shards ive played i have yet to see anyone do anything on a war horse other then look pretty and color coordinated.

so i guess what im trying to say is this is a non-issue as far as i can see.

what would be interesting to see is if the real SL horses are a 240 or a 180 hp horse.

ya know, the old old ones.
the different colored ones.

im willing to bet money that is where the mess up happened, back when they changed the SL horses to the different color.

 

[WarUltima]

News flash.

I went ahead and ran around and asked fellow TB and CoM players to do me a favor if they do have warhorses.

Apperently, CoM TB and Minax warhorses are all 240hp/400str.

SL warhorses are all 180hp/300str.

All the horses I lored are all claimed to be newly purchased so there is no age confusion there.

Yea SL is shafted.

 

[WarUltima]

MAybe some spawn with better stats when you buy them. Did you try buying a new one and seeing if it has better stats. If so you may have to keep getting news ones untill you get one with good stats.

They all spawn the same stat. Only SL faction has the weaker horse.

 

[Cho hag]

ive only ever seen one person in the entire time factions have been around use their war horses in battle.
that was a fella named Blatz on Sonoma shard.
he had 5 of them all fully trained.

so in all the years and all the shards ive played i have yet to see anyone do anything on a war horse other then look pretty and color coordinated.

so i guess what im trying to say is this is a non-issue as far as i can see.

what would be interesting to see is if the real SL horses are a 240 or a 180 hp horse.

ya know, the old old ones.
the different colored ones.

im willing to bet money that is where the mess up happened, back when they changed the SL horses to the different color.

we might not use them to attack ppl with but when we get dismounted ppl tend to try kill our pets, someone killing a sl horse will do this faster than they kill a com, mx or tb horse granting com, mx and tb a signifient advantage compared to sl

I tried to do lightning on my warhorse with my mage which has max sdi and no scribe it did 29 to it which means that a non sl warhorse needs to have 2-3lightnings more done to them than a sl warhorse which is 2-3lightnings that won't hit the dismounted the player...

fair? I don't think so

 

[WarUltima]

we might not use them to attack ppl with but when we get dismounted ppl tend to try kill our pets, someone killing a sl horse will do this faster than they kill a com, mx or tb horse granting com, mx and tb a signifient advantage compared to sl

I tried to do lightning on my warhorse with my mage which has max sdi and no scribe it did 29 to it which means that a non sl warhorse needs to have 2-3lightnings more done to them than a sl warhorse which is 2-3lightnings that won't hit the dismounted the player...

fair? I don't think so

I agree. Saying missing 60hp for all SL horses is OK for all SL players because no one use the horse to "Kill" is not the way.

How do you feel if all faction chars thats not in SL can only have 10sdi cap or 40hci/dci cap unless you are in SL then your caps are 15sdi or 45hci or 45dci. See small difference, so I dont see an issue here.

Faction horse having more HP could potentially SAVE your life many times. Especially you play on a shard where the largest faction guild are made of mainly stealth archers and tamers.

 

[Flutter]

We use our horses. Anyone who says it's a non-issue is only speaking for themself, not the rest of us.
The longer your horse can stay alive in battle the better.

 

[WarUltima]

We use our horses. Anyone who says it's a non-issue is only speaking for themself, not the rest of us.
The longer your horse can stay alive in battle the better.

Exactly.
Thank you Flutter.
I made the post with hard evidence to show the DEVs how this issue exists. They probably know it by now. Hopefully they can push out a retro-fix for the horses. Otherwise all the SL players who rides their warhorse is basically screwed, let along many of us already trained that damn thing to all GM.

It just sucks after doing a research and found out that my warhorse is inferior than ANY other faction and there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

 

[Messiah]

I would MUCH rather see the faction bandaids fixed rather than a horses hitpoints, specially since they can be rez'd with 1 bandage by ANYONE, so theres no big deal there.

 

[WarUltima]

I would MUCH rather see the faction bandaids fixed rather than a horses hitpoints, specially since they can be rez'd with 1 bandage by ANYONE, so theres no big deal there.

Guess you are a none-SL player. Yes its no big deal, it only saves you 2 to 3 stat-loss period per day during casual play.

And again its not a big deal, but is it fair? No.
Are you willing to run around knowing at least one of your stats/skill/pet are simply inferior? Say your max HP is limited to 100, cannot be enhanced farther. Your max hci is capped at 40. Your Sdi is capped at 10 in PvP. Your max DI is 270 not 300 like everyone else. And your mount will ALWAYS die 3 hits earlier than everyone else.

All of these are small and shouldnt be a big deal, but even if you are speaking for yourself since you are not SL, YOU know its unfair.

 

[WarUltima]

A lot of none SL players replied saying SL war horse being inferior isnt possible. And said its because I trained the Minax horse and didnt train SL horse and that's why.
I took sometime and trained both horses to max. Here are the fully trained screenies of Minax horse vs SL horse. Both horse at max stats. No buff/debuff on them. Both horses acquired 3 weeks ago.

Minax:

Shadowlord:

As you can see the proof (again). Shadowload war horse is EXACTLY 25% weaker in HP and Str.

DEVs please response. We just found out a possible bug. Thank you very much.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Do you really need to start a new thread? Can't you just add to the existing thread?

That aside, since I haven't played factions, what does the difference matter? How much more damage does it do/last longer/etc?

 

[WarUltima]

Str part isnt the point. My personal use of faction horse (like many others) is to be mounted and when I do get dismounted I dont have to go thru the 3 sec ethy delay for remount (you will be dead if ur against any decent enemies). War horses WILL be attacked when you are dismounted. A 60 points hp difference is 3 lightings, or 2 blows from an archer/dexer. That's 3 lightings or two concussion blows that went to the horse and not to me.

During the 5-second confusion time. A horse with 240hp can survive MUCH better than one with 180. And if your mount died usually you will die shortly after. Especially in faction if you died you are put into statloss for quite awhile. This is nothing complicated like a template balance. It's simple as some DEV screwed up something and made something supposed to be equal, weaker.

If you were given a choice. Two piece of armor with exact same stat/durability and will both cost you same price. One has +20str and +20hp the other has +25str and +25hp... it will be a no brainer. One piece is simply 25% better than the other.

 

[~Antzy~Pantz~]

So quit the faction that has the lower of the horses if that is truly your problem.. seriously, it's a war horse not a nightmare. Who the heck cares!
And I agree, why start a new thread about something you've already cried about in another?!?

 

[WarUltima]

I think I have my point made. I know I am gonna get flamed because there will be only 25% of the faction player on my side supporting this anyways. Because the other three factions has the better horse. As I said I also have a Minax character, and I feel pity when I quickly put down a SL horses. This is not crying. This is a contribution trying to help DEV to catch a bug and make the game better. (I sent a bug report in game also).

This is a forum and I am used to low life nothing better to do but give out zero constructive opinion kiddies. I provided my opinion. I support it with proof. Please grow up. If your goal isnt trying to make the playing field better and just wanting the broken things (at your advantage) to stay broken, then I completely understand. Peace out.

I still would love a DEV to take a look at this issue. It's an easy fix. Thanks.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Wth difference does it make."

The quicker your mount dies the quicker you die.

Good post WarUltima, I hope it gets fixed.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Yeah this needs to be fixed, makes no sense.

 

[Turdnugget]

Suggesting he change factions to get a warhorse with better HP is ridiculous. Why change when that faction SHOULD have the same horses as all other factions.

Unless of course they made it to where each different faction horses had something the other factions didn't. Maybe one faction horse could cast up to lvl 3 spells but had 180hp like a CoM horse, and maybe TB horse had an armor bonus that absorbed 5-10% of PvP dmg similar to a swampy and had 200hps, and a SL horse had 200hp and had some kind of special attack and so forth...

but for being a run of the mill faction horse they should ALL be the same unless they plan on making each faction horse unique to it's faction then I can see a change in HP.

And that much HP does make a huge difference when dismounted. It means your horse can survive that much longer until you're no longer confused and can get back on the horse.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Both Stratics hunter's guide and UO's own bestiary list war horses as having fixed stats, no maximum or minimum.

http://uo.stratics.com/database/view.php?db_content=hunters&id=357

http://www.uoherald.com/guide/monster_114.php

I suggest filling in a feedback form on uoHerald using the heading 'bug reports -pvp/faction issues'

http://www.uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

 

[Flutter]

Thanks for unlocking Petra.
I am hoping to see a dev (or community person) response that this bug is at least acknowledged.
I am sad to see so many factioners that don't know the uses of warhorses or the value of keeping said horse alive in a fight.

 

[Petra Fyde]

np, A bit of a 'doh' moment there, apologies.

 

[Cardell]

lol. its only been this way for how many years?

 

[Flutter]

lol. its only been this way for how many years?

Along with countless other bugs.
But this one seems easy enough to fix.

 

[WarUltima]

lol. its only been this way for how many years?

Yea no double whopper with cheese eh. I think its caused by when they changed SL war horse from dark gray-ish to green. And wasnt enough faction players to find this bug out. Well at least I noticed it. Hope DEV actually take a look at it and fix it.

I filed a faction/PvP bug report already, lets see what happens.