Faction items

[Widow Maker]

Ok, I have been factions for a long time now. I look at the faction rosters for a given shard and see (random numbers here) 500 people in a faction, and yet you only see 10 ever fighting in Fel.

The rest are Trammies just using the gear in Trammel only. They never ever come to Fel. This is abuse of the game mechanics for Faction gear.

The Devs need to do one of 2 things here:

You enter a gate and hit Trammel, the gear becomes normal non-enchanted, non-imbueable gear or it drops from the char into their backpack and can not be equipped in Trammel (best choice).

or

Open Faction fighting in all Trammel facets. This should have always been enabled and would be my personal choice.

Thoughts???

 

[hen]

Both.

 

[JL from Europa]

Open Faction fighting in all Trammel facets. This should have always been enabled and would be my personal choice.

Thoughts???

Now that would be a lot of fun! Pvpers hunting Pvmers in Trammel

 

[Speedy Orkit]

I'd like to see faction prices reduced on Siege Perilous. Currently we pay 5x as much as normal shards, IE 25k silver for orny, 10k for crimson, etc. Which wouldn't be such a big deal, but we also don't have insurance. So when a mage dies, they can lose a suit that cost 80k+ silver, or about 3.2m(Which is about 23m Production gold). I'm a long time vet of Siege, but this seems on the abusive side. I also play ATL and I agree, it is annoying seeing sampires running around in faction gear...

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If "Trammies" is defined as someone who prefers to play in Trammel and spends most of his or her time there , then your statement is demonstrably incorrect.

On LS and now on GL what I've seen in actual fact is Fellies who don't care about Factions using the gear for champ spawns, Yew Gate PvP, and showing off in Trammel because they think actual Trammies will be awestruck by them. (Which I can assure you we are not.)

The actual issue of course is the many exploits which allow the accrual of ridiculous numbers of points.

As conceived, Faction Artifacts had the apparent intent of providing a reward for participation in Factions that:

1. Was external to Factions (meaning that it could be used in other circumstances);
   
2. Required participation in Factions (hence the rank and point requirements);
   
3. Offered additional rewards for owning the towns (as I recall, the items as originally conceived could only be repaired or fortified, I forget which, by using an item that you needed to own a town to require); and, as a consequence of all of the above
   
4. Increase participation in Factions.

Faction Artifacts have sadly failed along every measure except the last, increasing the raw numbers of people in factions, but "Trammies" aren't the issue. Point-cheaters are. I assure you we have other ways of getting good equipment, and have no need to show off with Faction Artifacts. You all make a critical error in logic when you say such things, and that is to assume we share your values in judging items solely by the total of their stats. Fellies show off in Faction Artifacts. A Trammel player might do so too, but is equally likely to show off using an EM event item, or a particularly rare replica or artifact, or a rare deco item.

I mean this with all respect to Factioners. One of my best friends in this game is one of the best Faction Thieves across multiple shards. I had a lot of fun the few times I've been in Factions. I wouldn't be surprised if I was in Factions again at some point, on one character or another. Last night, I fought alongside Factioners I have more typically fought against, to kill non-Faction griefers at an EM event.

So-called "Trammies" are not the issue. Exploiters within your own ranks (referring to the ranks of Fellies generally, not the ranks of Factioners in particular), are.

-Galen's player

 

[jack flash uk]

without wanting to annoy or cause offense, If "trammies" are wearing faction artis in Tram and not in fel fighting you i wonder why it is such a prob to you?

and yes as mentioned above players with insane ,unrealistic kill points so that rank 10 items are over 20k points for example
and same faction killing

these need addressing more ungently than "trammies" wearing faction artis and casuing NO harm to others

 

[Mistura]

I think it would just be common sense to open up faction fights to all facets.

I'm yet to hear a single sensible reason why this is not currently the case.

 

[A Rev]

without wanting to annoy or cause offense, If "trammies" are wearing faction artis in Tram and not in fel fighting you i wonder why it is such a prob to you?

Well basically it comes down to this.

If you have 100 non PvPer factioners(trammies exploiting the cheap arties) exploiting the points system to keep them at rank 10, it forces the required points per rank to increase.

This makes it harder for PvPers who, in some cases, will exploit the points system to maintain rank. The pvmers lose rank and have to get more points...this continues and the required points per rank reaches 1mil or more!!! do you see now why they do cause harm?

I Agree with both suggestions btw. Enable faction fighting both facets will please the factioners. Making the items unequipable in trammel will please the trammies as the factioners will again need the normal arties to pvp in tram (if they so chose to)

 

[Speedy Orkit]

without wanting to annoy or cause offense, If "trammies" are wearing faction artis in Tram and not in fel fighting you i wonder why it is such a prob to you?

Because factions are a PvP implementation?

From stratics:

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."

 

[A Rev]

I think it would just be common sense to open up faction fights to all facets.

I'm yet to hear a single sensible reason why this is not currently the case.

I cant think of one either.

It wouldnt be too difficult i imagine as the system is almost in place anyway.
Warring faction guilds can still stat loss each other in all facets, i cant image a switch to war all faction guilds would be too hard.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I think it would just be common sense to open up faction fights to all facets.

I'm yet to hear a single sensible reason why this is not currently the case.

Depends on what you mean by "sensible" I guess. Normally when someone says that they mean "a reason I agree with," which of course reads to circular reasoning.

• Fictional Reason

Factions is fighting for political control of Felucca.

The Crown (currently held by Queen Dawn) has political control of Trammel, and either all of Malas or at least parts of it.

So what would Factioners fight over outside of Felucca? I, for one, like the idea of the Trammel rules facets being stable politically.

• Practical Reasons

Just because someone is in Factions doesn't mean they want to fight all the time. If they did they'd go red in Felucca and be freely attackable in Felucca everyplace and have no chance for stat loss.

Further, allowing Faction fighting in Trammel narrows Faction participation even further. I guarantee you few RolePlayers would ever join Factions, for example, because there are times when such quaint, old-fashioned notions as character and plot development are not well-served by constant fighting.

Also imagine the griefing potential at EM events?


---------------------------
I'm not entirely sure how hard I'd fight against Faction fighting everywhere, but the point is that there are, indeed, "sensible" arguments against it.

-Galen's player

 

[EricVT]

The bottom line is that people exploit the faction item system, which is designed for PvP, to give them PvM benefits in an environment where they have no risk from being attacked from opposing factions.

That shouldn't happen.

Faction items should be usable only in environments where faction PvP is a possibility.

 

[Stewpid]

On LS and now on GL what I've seen in actual fact is Fellies who don't care about Factions using the gear for champ spawns, Yew Gate PvP, and showing off in Trammel because they think actual Trammies will be awestruck by them. (Which I can assure you we are not.)

They probably aren't "showing off in Trammel", they are working off murder counts because they can't handle going red.

 

[jack flash uk]

i see, thanks

but what about the Pvp players that have insane amounts of points , i mean hundreds of thousands of points or dare i say millions for example, aren't these the players causing rank 10 items to be sky high and not "trammies" wanting them?

just look at CoM europa i have been told you need over 20k points for rank 10

that is NOT due to "trammies" just look at the faction info on uo.com

this is due to point exploitation

the politics behind whether "trammies" are entitled to have artis will go on for a long time i guess

but i think the real villans in factions are the point collectors, and inter faction murderers

 

[Widow Maker]

Because factions are a PvP implementation?

From stratics:

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."

That should clear up any foolish questions of that type.

The point system is completely FUBAR, but that is a completely separate issue, but it was very well detailed on how the use of faction gear outside of Fel has actually helped to compound the point trouble..

This conversation is about the mis-use of Faction gear outside of Fel. Let's discuss this and try to get change implemented.

While I would like to see faction gear drop from a char outside of Fel AND faction fighting across the whole of the game, I would be temporarily satisfied to see one or the other implemented as a stop gap.

 

[jack flash uk]

That should clear up any foolish questions of that type.

The point system is completely FUBAR, but that is a completely separate issue, but it was very well detailed on how the use of faction gear outside of Fel has actually helped to compound the point trouble..

This conversation is about the mis-use of Faction gear outside of Fel. Let's discuss this and try to get change implemented.

While I would like to see faction gear drop from a char outside of Fel AND faction fighting across the whole of the game, I would be temporarily satisfied to see one or the other implemented as a stop gap.

lets hope that changes are made to allow this to be so, rules are rules as they say, like you say.
Points and i would add same faction murdering need looking at, but as you mentioned, is a separate issue

and its your thread after all

 

[Anakena]

Ok, I have been factions for a long time now. I look at the faction rosters for a given shard and see (random numbers here) 500 people in a faction, and yet you only see 10 ever fighting in Fel.

The rest are Trammies just using the gear in Trammel only. They never ever come to Fel. This is abuse of the game mechanics for Faction gear.

The Devs need to do one of 2 things here:

You enter a gate and hit Trammel, the gear becomes normal non-enchanted, non-imbueable gear or it drops from the char into their backpack and can not be equipped in Trammel (best choice).

or

Open Faction fighting in all Trammel facets. This should have always been enabled and would be my personal choice.

Thoughts???

The whole faction system need a revamp. A lot of factionners (trammies or not) get their faction points by using a mule. When the new faction items were introduced, a lot of red guilds joined for those items. Many are not even trying to play the faction game, as they are just reds with a faction tag, attacking on sight other people from their own faction.

 

[Widow Maker]

I understand that a faction revamp is "coming". This means we are going to wait a very long time. How about we get these two changes in soon and that will give some breathing room while we wait for the revamp.

 

[Coragin]

I am so frikkin sick of these posts. First, if you change them to only work in Fel, I have to change my suit every time I go kill a peerless/doom whatever. Which I do when my guild is not on if Im not soloing champs that is. I do not want to have to build a third suit to use in tram! Epic fail on that idea, I dont care how sound you think it is, some of us play on both facets! And I will fight that idea tooth and nail if I have to. I pay my dues on the battlefield, so no NO NO!

And I guess I must be one of the only faction players who couldnt care less if a trammie is using the arties, so frikkin what??? Its not hurting me, its not effecting me at all! You having a hrd time keeping rank 10 or something? If so go kill more players, if you cant do that, ask your guild to give you points. If they wont, play a thief and steal sigils. Punishing pvp factioners to have to build another suit if they wanna goto tram is not the answer here.

Pvprs use the arties and trammies use the arties, deal with it! And on top of that factions is not all about fighting, there is the political aspects to it, think of the trammies as the non-combatant political party.

But, christ, stop whinning about it, its not hurting you in the slightest.

 

[Sneaky Que]

Open Faction fighting in all Trammel facets. This should have always been enabled and would be my personal choice.

Thoughts???

This.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

word. faction items should blow up and kill you in tram. and your body freely lootable.

 

[KalVasTENKI]

I am so frikkin sick of these posts. First, if you change them to only work in Fel, I have to change my suit every time I go kill a peerless/doom whatever. Which I do when my guild is not on if Im not soloing champs that is. I do not want to have to build a third suit to use in tram! Epic fail on that idea, I dont care how sound you think it is, some of us play on both facets! And I will fight that idea tooth and nail if I have to. I pay my dues on the battlefield, so no NO NO!

And I guess I must be one of the only faction players who couldnt care less if a trammie is using the arties, so frikkin what??? Its not hurting me, its not effecting me at all! You having a hrd time keeping rank 10 or something? If so go kill more players, if you cant do that, ask your guild to give you points. If they wont, play a thief and steal sigils. Punishing pvp factioners to have to build another suit if they wanna goto tram is not the answer here.

Pvprs use the arties and trammies use the arties, deal with it! And on top of that factions is not all about fighting, there is the political aspects to it, think of the trammies as the non-combatant political party.

But, christ, stop whinning about it, its not hurting you in the slightest.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

I am so frikkin sick of these posts. First, if you change them to only work in Fel, I have to change my suit every time I go kill a peerless/doom whatever. Which I do when my guild is not on if Im not soloing champs that is. I do not want to have to build a third suit to use in tram! Epic fail on that idea, I dont care how sound you think it is, some of us play on both facets! And I will fight that idea tooth and nail if I have to. I pay my dues on the battlefield, so no NO NO!

And I guess I must be one of the only faction players who couldnt care less if a trammie is using the arties, so frikkin what??? Its not hurting me, its not effecting me at all! You having a hrd time keeping rank 10 or something? If so go kill more players, if you cant do that, ask your guild to give you points. If they wont, play a thief and steal sigils. Punishing pvp factioners to have to build another suit if they wanna goto tram is not the answer here.

Pvprs use the arties and trammies use the arties, deal with it! And on top of that factions is not all about fighting, there is the political aspects to it, think of the trammies as the non-combatant political party.

But, christ, stop whinning about it, its not hurting you in the slightest.

0/10

while i love where you coming from. your post gives the illusion that there actually killing people to keep the items as per the design. there not, they farm off one another. So technically your post should say give all payers faction items. its pathetic. I agree faction players shouldn't be "punished". but were they punished before faction items? Id like to see what the overhaul of the faction point system has in store for people who abuse faction items. If you think hard on it from a design stand point it was just a bad idea. and the addiction of tram's to fac items really screws up game play as far as grouping, parties, and outside activities. And the argument "if it doesn't affect you directly its ok" it reallllly silly. not that thats what you meant entirely. but i hear that all the time in regards to this sort of thing and hacking and whatnot. You have to be creative and address the problem. not just pretend the only solution is to have a suit per facet. you could easily make it so the faction items only have bumped pops in fel and revert in tram. i mean theres a million ways to address one flawed system.

 

[Coragin]

Hey, all I know is if it gets changed to where I am forced to build a second suit to pvm in tram when Im not spawning with the guild, Im gonna be irate at all the little whinners here. The same reason I am pissed about the GD nerf because of the whinny pvpers. I never take my GD to Fel I always play my dexxer or my mage, heck I barley played my tamer before the nerf, but that isint the point. The point is it got nerfed because of crying babies.

Point in case here. I am usually the spawner in my guild, I can wreck a spawn and any boss. If we raid, we usually have a stealther informing us of what they have. Now, if they have pets, such as cu or GD, I know this ahead of time, I drop in and first thing I am doing is killing that dragon or CU. And if the tamer is trying to heal it, he is screwed, I will momentum strike or whirlwind and be hitting him too.

You know what caused this change? Moongate fighting! Which is lame to begin with, yay lets all goto yew moongate! Dorks. Fight for a reason, it may be a small reason, but hell, to think dragons got nerfed because all the yew gate *cough* pvpers cried enough about getting wtfpwned! I think if you go off screen last taget should be wiped, but do you see me going on a holy crusade about it? NO! Suck it up, get out of stat and get a strat besides running on and off screen, para gank unload. Christ I am so sick of people crying because what they are used to, the mindless same method to kill EVERYONE gets affected by a different type of class.

And no, there is no where in the faction handbook that says you HAVE to continue to fight in Fel after you join a faction for their arties. It is frowned upon yes, yes people such as the OP will come here and cry about it. But in the end, it is NOT affecting anyone unless you let it affect you. What? You need to have 60 instead of 50 points to remain level 10? Suck it up and kill someone, ask a guildied mate for points...

Damn cry babies! You do realize all the crying done here is why so many changes were made to the game to begin with right? And why the state of the game is the way it is? Because children cannot stop with the ME ME ME MINE MINE MINE attitude!

Shut up and play the darn game, live within the rules, have a good time. And these people in tram with faction arties? Ignore them! Or maybe you are spending too much time in tram inspecting everyone who walks by!

 

[Splup]

Open Faction fighting in all Trammel facets. This should have always been enabled and would be my personal choice.

This.

 

[Splup]

Hey, all I know is if it gets changed to where I am forced to build a second suit to pvm in tram when Im not spawning with the guild, Im gonna be irate at all the little whinners here. The same reason I am pissed about the GD nerf because of the whinny pvpers. I never take my GD to Fel I always play my dexxer or my mage, heck I barley played my tamer before the nerf, but that isint the point. The point is it got nerfed because of crying babies.

Point in case here. I am usually the spawner in my guild, I can wreck a spawn and any boss. If we raid, we usually have a stealther informing us of what they have. Now, if they have pets, such as cu or GD, I know this ahead of time, I drop in and first thing I am doing is killing that dragon or CU. And if the tamer is trying to heal it, he is screwed, I will momentum strike or whirlwind and be hitting him too.

You know what caused this change? Moongate fighting! Which is lame to begin with, yay lets all goto yew moongate! Dorks. Fight for a reason, it may be a small reason, but hell, to think dragons got nerfed because all the yew gate *cough* pvpers cried enough about getting wtfpwned! I think if you go off screen last taget should be wiped, but do you see me going on a holy crusade about it? NO! Suck it up, get out of stat and get a strat besides running on and off screen, para gank unload. Christ I am so sick of people crying because what they are used to, the mindless same method to kill EVERYONE gets affected by a different type of class.

And no, there is no where in the faction handbook that says you HAVE to continue to fight in Fel after you join a faction for their arties. It is frowned upon yes, yes people such as the OP will come here and cry about it. But in the end, it is NOT affecting anyone unless you let it affect you. What? You need to have 60 instead of 50 points to remain level 10? Suck it up and kill someone, ask a guildied mate for points...

Damn cry babies! You do realize all the crying done here is why so many changes were made to the game to begin with right? And why the state of the game is the way it is? Because children cannot stop with the ME ME ME MINE MINE MINE attitude!

Shut up and play the darn game, live within the rules, have a good time. And these people in tram with faction arties? Ignore them! Or maybe you are spending too much time in tram inspecting everyone who walks by!

The game has taken a change to better very often cause of crying.

See 130+hp criticals in PvP, instakills with glacial staffs, 4/6 50SDI casts, 10x WW:s controlled by one tamer.

You talk like change was always a bad thing... Like they say, the worlds changes you want it or not. So you better be there to effect how it changes...

Why you think faction fights in trammel would be a bad thing? Cause you might get killed in trammel? Well then take a nonfaction to your tram PvM.

And some of us actually enjoy just the PvP, we don't want to make 15-30min PvM first to get PvP, we just want to PvP. That's why we fights at places like Yew.

Many times I have 30mins time to play before I gotta go do something else, I don't want to waste it on killing rats or lizards... I want to have fun which equals to PvP.

Well, I would write longer post but I gotta get going.

Take care.

 

[Widow Maker]

live within the rules

Given your statement of the above...and this:

"Originally Posted by Speedy Orkit
Because factions are a PvP implementation?

From stratics:

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."


Your credibility and statements are pretty much nullified if you are not in agreement with the following:

If you have Faction items, you have agreed to fight for the right to wear them...anywhere! If you put yourself in a location where you abrogate that agreement, you need to loose the use of them, per the game rules. Of course, you have stated that you desire to play by the rules.

So the solution would be to make sure you are always in a situation to be able to fight for the right to wear said items. That being established, Faction fighting needs to be present across every land tile of UO.

I am sure you agree and are now ready to sign on to wanting to have Faction fighting everywhere in UO.

If you are not in agreement, then I am sure, as a fair minded individual, you would then see it correct that Faction gear should not work in Trammel, if Faction fighting is not allowed there.

 

[Trebr Drab]

This is what happens when a game takes a specific aspect and adds bonuses to it to draw players in. Factions shouldn't give things that have bonuses. Factions should give things that are unique, but not bonuses to power and ability. If factions aren't fun to play, why have them? Just for items?

Factions could be a lot of fun. It needs to have conquests and victories, losses and defeats. It needs to have meaning to Felucca, and all of Sosaria, in a lore and world context.

At first I was excited about Factions (same as Order/Chaos), but the problems and lack of meaning left it feeling petty and useless, full of problems and abuses.

I'd like to have the possibility to win back Felucca for the realm. To have the flowers bloom and the trees fill with lush greenery, their fruit a sign of it's revival. And to have to fight to protect the realm against the forces of chaos and ruin.

But nooooooOoo. We have to have this, the way it is.
And yes, Powerscrolls and AoS item power have made this a much harder thing to accomplish, leaving established powergamers on a much higher level than other players.

Many of you want these things to be fun, yet you want the power extremes that take the fun out of it by unbalancing and making it hard for others to participate.

 

[Gowron]

I think it would just be common sense to open up faction fights to all facets.

I'm yet to hear a single sensible reason why this is not currently the case.

I cant think of one either.

It wouldnt be too difficult i imagine as the system is almost in place anyway.
Warring faction guilds can still stat loss each other in all facets, i cant image a switch to war all faction guilds would be too hard.

While I generally agree that Factions should fight anywhere, the only reason I can think of against it is pretty much the story arc that separated Tram from Fel in the first place with Fel being the war torn portion and Tram being the land of milk and honey.

I kind of enjoy going to Fel periodically, but as I usually suck at soloing PvP getting the right folks to go with me at the right time (ie, when i'm not filling BODs, doing Tmaps, etc).

 

[Mook Chessy]

Opposing factions should always be orange, regardless of the facet. If you want to wear the gear then you should be ready to fight, anywhere anytime.

Let’s see you solo all those bosses when you’re getting attacked, be a little harder I bet.

They also need to drop the faction points earned for Sigil stealing, way to high.

Factions are about PVP period!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The point system is completely FUBAR, but that is a completely separate issue,

No it's not, not if you're actually sincere about the real issue being people getting the items, then not participating in Factions.

If there weren't those issues with exploiting to get points, then those people, or someone with a close relationship to them, would have to be participating in Factions in order to get those items in the first place, regardless of where they are most of the time.

but it was very well detailed on how the use of faction gear outside of Fel has actually helped to compound the point trouble..

Not in your post it wasn't.

Your post consisted of a two-sentence mild rant on, then four sentences outlining a solution for, a problem that only half-exists at best, while avoiding the underlying issue entirely: Point exploits.

Two characters named "killme" and "killme2" joined Factions on GL this past Summer, and had six-digits worth of points within a week, yet were, according to people I trust, never seen on the actual field.

How many people who have Faction Artifacts but don't participate in Factions do you really think you would see were it not for this kind of point exploitation? If that exploitation didn't exist, how would they get their points without participating?

If you're halfway sincere about what your issue really is, fixing point exploits would fix your issue just by definition.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[Miriandel]

Factions in trammel would drive more people away from factions, while very few take part in factions already.

I remember, when playing Asheron's Call, being jumped on while buying regs or simply having a break with friends or taking a bio break.
A zero safe place game becomes annoying real fast, having to watch over your shoulder anywhere anytime appeals to some, but not all.

Do that with factions and even less people will join.

Just my 2 pyreals...er cents, or copper, whatever.

 

[Reximus]

1. They need to implement stat loss for all PvP deaths.

2. Faction fighting in all facets is fine, but Felucca will be pretty much empty, reds will have little chance to participate outside of champ spawns, Luna bank will be the new PvP hotspot.

3. If you fix the point system, don't make it too hard to get points, or you will just encourage cowardice/gank squads, if I want to try and take on 5vs1, then I shouldn't be penalized.

 

[Widow Maker]

Opposing factions should always be orange, regardless of the facet. If you want to wear the gear then you should be ready to fight, anywhere anytime.

The primary point of the post...exactly..

Thank you.

 

[Busters]

Opposing factions should always be orange, regardless of the facet. If you want to wear the gear then you should be ready to fight, anywhere anytime.

Let’s see you solo all those bosses when you’re getting attacked, be a little harder I bet.

They also need to drop the faction points earned for Sigil stealing, way to high.

Factions are about PVP period!

They dropped order/chaos, so they should let all factions fight on any facet, or the suit drops into backpack outside of fel. And i completely aggree with the sigil stealing thing. I think no points should be given for a sigil stolen, it should be strictly from pvp.

 

[Widow Maker]

No it's not, not if you're actually sincere about the real issue being people getting the items, then not participating in Factions.

If there weren't those issues with exploiting to get points, then those people, or someone with a close relationship to them, would have to be participating in Factions in order to get those items in the first place, regardless of where they are most of the time.



Not in your post it wasn't.

Your post consisted of a two-sentence mild rant on, then four sentences outlining a solution for, a problem that only half-exists at best, while avoiding the underlying issue entirely: Point exploits.

Two characters named "killme" and "killme2" joined Factions on GL this past Summer, and had six-digits worth of points within a week, yet were, according to people I trust, never seen on the actual field.

How many people who have Faction Artifacts but don't participate in Factions do you really think you would see were it not for this kind of point exploitation? If that exploitation didn't exist, how would they get their points without participating?

If you're halfway sincere about what your issue really is, fixing point exploits would fix your issue just by definition.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

I see that you do a lot of posting, by your counts. Maybe you are having an off day or are just not comprehending the issue, as presented. Whichever it is is of no concern to me.

This is not about points, we all KNOW that is completely FUBAR, and the various reasons as to why it is in the state it is currently in.

Please limit your ramblings/ responses to the case in hand; The abuse of Faction items outside of agreed upon risk of using them.

If you are simply trying to protect your abuse of the system, come out and say it. Be truthful or be quiet and allow responsible parties to discuss the viewpoints without your inane ramblings.

We are trying to institute good and proper chnges to the system, please try not to impede us in our tasks.

 

[Trebr Drab]

No it's not, not if you're actually sincere about the real issue being people getting the items, then not participating in Factions.

If there weren't those issues with exploiting to get points, then those people, or someone with a close relationship to them, would have to be participating in Factions in order to get those items in the first place, regardless of where they are most of the time.



Not in your post it wasn't.

Your post consisted of a two-sentence mild rant on, then four sentences outlining a solution for, a problem that only half-exists at best, while avoiding the underlying issue entirely: Point exploits.

Two characters named "killme" and "killme2" joined Factions on GL this past Summer, and had six-digits worth of points within a week, yet were, according to people I trust, never seen on the actual field.

How many people who have Faction Artifacts but don't participate in Factions do you really think you would see were it not for this kind of point exploitation? If that exploitation didn't exist, how would they get their points without participating?

If you're halfway sincere about what your issue really is, fixing point exploits would fix your issue just by definition.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

I see that you do a lot of posting, by your counts. Maybe you are having an off day or are just not comprehending the issue, as presented. Whichever it is is of no concern to me.

This is not about points, we all KNOW that is completely FUBAR, and the various reasons as to why it is in the state it is currently in.

Please limit your ramblings/ responses to the case in hand; The abuse of Faction items outside of agreed upon risk of using them.

If you are simply trying to protect your abuse of the system, come out and say it. Be truthful or be quiet and allow responsible parties to discuss the viewpoints without your inane ramblings.

We are trying to institute good and proper chnges to the system, please try not to impede us in our tasks.

Galen abusing the system? That's a laugh, heh.

If you want to solve a problem, you have to get to the root of the problem. Otherwise, all you're doing is sugar coating it. So Galen's point is a worthy one.

 

[Widow Maker]

Galen abusing the system? That's a laugh, heh.

If you want to solve a problem, you have to get to the root of the problem. Otherwise, all you're doing is sugar coating it. So Galen's point is a worthy one.

Not making an accusation, since I have no clue who is who, just throwing a statement out.

The point system is a verifed screwed system but with or without it, people are and would abuse the faction item system, in its current form. These 2 proposed changes would eliminate it. Agreed?

There is no agenda here except to keep these items in the environment they were intended for. That agenda is strictly for the PvP world..NOT the PvM world.

If you join factions and accept the gear, you are automatically enrolled in the PvP system and should be at risk, where ever you are wearing them.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Not making an accusation, since I have no clue who is who, just throwing a statement out.

The point system is a verifed screwed system but with or without it, people are and would abuse the faction item system, in its current form. These 2 proposed changes would eliminate it. Agreed?

There is no agenda here except to keep these items in the environment they were intended for. That agenda is strictly for the PvP world..NOT the PvM world.

If you join factions and accept the gear, you are automatically enrolled in the PvP system and should be at risk, where ever you are wearing them.

Throwing statements out seems to be what you're best at, judging by this thread. It's really all you have.

I'm not in Factions currently, and thus I cannot wear a single Faction Artifact, in Trammel or Felucca or Malas or Ter Mur or anyplace. Yes, I post a lot. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

What you propose isn't a "fix" of anything; it's a proposed policy change. It's changing the clear intent of the system. Fine to propose it, not fine to ridiculously and disingenuously pretend it "fixes" something.

Wearing the items in Trammel isn't an exploit. They were clearly designed to be worn in Trammel.

Not having Faction fighting in Trammel is also not an exploit, it is designed as such, because the Factions are fighting for control of Felucca.

On the other hand, having over 100,000 points within a week without ever being seen on the field is clearly an exploit.

If there were no such point exploits, people would have to participate for real to wear the items.

This is not hard to understand.

If the issue is non-participants wearing the items? Problem solved by definition.

But, that isn't really your issue, is it.

At the end of the day, your post amounts to whining that people you do not like are in Factions....If that and insults are all you got, and that's pretty clearly the case, then we're done I reckon.

-Galen's player

 

[Trebr Drab]

Galen abusing the system? That's a laugh, heh.

If you want to solve a problem, you have to get to the root of the problem. Otherwise, all you're doing is sugar coating it. So Galen's point is a worthy one.

Not making an accusation, since I have no clue who is who, just throwing a statement out.

The point system is a verifed screwed system but with or without it, people are and would abuse the faction item system. These 2 proposed changes would eliminate it. Agreed?

There is no agenda here except to keep these items in the environment they were intended for. That agenda is strictly for the PvP world..NOT the PvM world.

If you join factions and accept the gear, you are automatically enrolled in the PvP system and should be at rick, whereever you are wearing them.

They would, but they'd also bring new problems.

1) Gank squads running around Trammel looking for faction members to kill.
This will only cause many players to leave faction. Now, many of these players don't belong in factions anyways, they are the ones abusing it in the first place. But others, a few, are in factions for the fun, yet want some safety in Trammel so they can do other things without always having to switch back to PvP.

So factions would lose a lot of membership.
And still factions gains nothing to make it work better and bring more players into it.

2) Other players, Trammies, don't want to have to watch wars going on in the cities or near their homes or places of adventure. It doesn't make sense that this is happening in Trammel. The war is not there, it's in Fel. And they don't want it.

So it doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Widow Maker]

"Throwing statements out seems to be what you're best at, judging by this thread. It's really all you have."

Looks like you are pretty good at this , as well. Welcome to the rest of us. Pot is happy to meet kettle.

I'm not in Factions currently, and thus I cannot wear a single Faction Artifact, in Trammel or Felucca or Malas or Ter Mur or anyplace. Yes, I post a lot. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

How lovely, not even involved and yet have so much to add. Is there a measure that could estimate how much we appreciate non-involved input? Thank you so much... /end sarcasm

What you propose isn't a "fix" of anything; it's a proposed policy change. It's changing the clear intent of the system. Fine to propose it, not fine to ridiculously and disingenuously pretend it "fixes" something.

Whoa there Buckaroo... I am not sure what part of the clear intent of this design statement that you don't understand, but I am sure someone will clear you up on it:

From stratics:

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."

Wearing the items in Trammel isn't an exploit. They were clearly designed to be worn in Trammel.

Only one thing to say to this one.... WTF are you thinking?? LOL

Not having Faction fighting in Trammel is also not an exploit, it is designed as such, because the Factions are fighting for control of Felucca.

Thus Faction gear does not belong in Trammel. Thank you.

On the other hand, having over 100,000 points within a week without ever being seen on the field is clearly an exploit.

Agreed.

If there were no such point exploits, people would have to participate for real to wear the items.

Or allow faction fighting in Trammel to weed out the exploiters of Faction gear.

This is not hard to understand.

Agreed...then why are you having so much trouble understanding?

If the issue is non-participants wearing the items? Problem solved by definition.

Finally, the light may be seeping through, on the first part..the rest is pointless drivel. But you just might get there..keep trying.

But, that isn't really your issue, is it.

Actually, it is the exact issue. -1 again to comprehension though for failing to see it clearly.

At the end of the day, your post amounts to whining that people you do not like are in Factions....If that and insults are all you got, and that's pretty clearly the case, then we're done I reckon.

Wow..ends with a pi$$ poor attempt. You are a flipping genius, and it is evident you think so. I, nor the rest of decent faction members, could care less about who is in factions or who are not. The issue is that if they are in factions, the bullseye you paint on yourself by accepting the items needs to be available for target practice at all times.

 

[Widow Maker]

Trebr Drab wrote:

"They would, but they'd also bring new problems.

1) Gank squads running around Trammel looking for faction members to kill.
This will only cause many players to leave faction. Now, many of these players don't belong in factions anyways, they are the ones abusing it in the first place. But others, a few, are in factions for the fun, yet want some safety in Trammel so they can do other things without always having to switch back to PvP.

So factions would lose a lot of membership.
And still factions gains nothing to make it work better and bring more players into it."

I agree that some cleansing of false faction members would, should and needs to occur. It will absolutely clean out the filth and the people who are exploiting the system would leave. Believe me when I say this...Good riddance to bad rubbish. Those who are left would actually be playing factions the way it is meant and there are certainly enough of us to keep factions fun and exciting. The trammel exploiters are not currently, nor ever have been involved anyways.


"2) Other players, Trammies, don't want to have to watch wars going on in the cities or near their homes or places of adventure. It doesn't make sense that this is happening in Trammel. The war is not there, it's in Fel. And they don't want it.

So it doesn't work for everyone."

I am not too sure about that but it is like pouring alcohol on a wound to clean it. It only stings for a little while and you don't need it all the time once it's cleaned up. But you do need it around in case of re-infection.

 

[Kellgory]

Highly doubtful that they would extent PVP faction warfare outside of Fel ruleset areas, and if they did then they should allow red faction members access to Tram areas so that they could participate (highly unlikely). Not being able to equip faction items in Tram sounds good until you realize they would have to write special coding for that. Another option would be if you plan on wearing and using faction items in Tram then maybe part of the insurance cost is paid in silver for any non-fel side deaths. Even if the amount was as small at 60 silver per item. This would either force them to go to fel to collect silver or buy silver from someone. Then again most have pretty much given up on anything happening so this is really all a mute point. Let them have their items as long as they don't jack around with the points and screw legit PVPers.

 

[Widow Maker]

Highly doubtful that they would extent PVP faction warfare outside of Fel ruleset areas, and if they did then they should allow red faction members access to Tram areas so that they could participate (highly unlikely). Not being able to equip faction items in Tram sounds good until you realize they would have to write special coding for that. Another option would be if you plan on wearing and using faction items in Tram then maybe part of the insurance cost is paid in silver for any non-fel side deaths. Even if the amount was as small at 60 silver per item. This would either force them to go to fel to collect silver or buy silver from someone. Then again most have pretty much given up on anything happening so this is really all a mute point. Let them have their items as long as they don't jack around with the points and screw legit PVPers.

Kellgory..normally..I would agree with you, except that most of the point holder characters stay in Tram and never leave..so they need to be forced out. Being on COP on Sonoma...you know your guild's own point holder simply never leaves trammel.

 

[Jhym]

Your issue seems to be use of faction items in non-faction methods and areas.

Simple solution: Faction players cannot go to non-Felucca rules facets.

Done.

Enjoy your game.

Oh, that's not what you want?

Well then, make all faction items cost 50 times as much as they do now. Problem solved again.

Oh, that's not what you want?

I cannot help thee with that then.

The only solution is going to be a complete revamp of factions to make it fun and useful for everyone. There should be Felucca aspects, Trammel aspects, and crafter/thief aspects that make everyone involved interested in actually doing it. The things that were implemented were a start, but they didn't complete and add in high level, tactical aspects; nor did they add in good reasons to pick one faction over another. Not to mention no consequences for killing non-combatants other than murder counts. oooo you can turn red, how bad you are to kill a crafter four or five times because he's at the bank in a non-guarded city.

These are the problems with Factions, not whether some twit leeches points off actual pvpers so he can use artifacts in Trammel to look pretty.

And if you are so enraged by such folks, perhaps you need to win more at your faction battles and take their points away.

 

[Coragin]

Given your statement of the above...and this:

"Originally Posted by Speedy Orkit
Because factions are a PvP implementation?

From stratics:

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."


Your credibility and statements are pretty much nullified if you are not in agreement with the following:

If you have Faction items, you have agreed to fight for the right to wear them...anywhere! If you put yourself in a location where you abrogate that agreement, you need to loose the use of them, per the game rules. Of course, you have stated that you desire to play by the rules.

So the solution would be to make sure you are always in a situation to be able to fight for the right to wear said items. That being established, Faction fighting needs to be present across every land tile of UO.

I am sure you agree and are now ready to sign on to wanting to have Faction fighting everywhere in UO.

If you are not in agreement, then I am sure, as a fair minded individual, you would then see it correct that Faction gear should not work in Trammel, if Faction fighting is not allowed there.

Oh God! Are you gonna get into a semantic debate with me? Okay buttercup, lets do it!

First yes you agree to fight to earn them. HOWEVER! One cant retire from fights and go on the political? And if you are going to come back with arguement that if your not fighting give back the rewards you have won. Well, then buttercup, if your not fighting that SAME champ (not a respawn), give back the 120 you got! You keep your rewards, its stupid to take them away.

Second, oh and your gonna love this...

"The Faction System is a broad game system designed to promote organized player conflict within the society of Britannia."

Your own quote, please check it so you are sure I didnt add to or take away from, I will wait....

Okay now I am going to say about this, the key word is CONFLICT! In no way shape or form does it say you must kill anyone or even say that you need to be a mindless yew gate drone. It says conflict, nothing more! So YES I 100% completely agree with that statement. Republicans and Democrats have "conflict", hell people on the same side of a debate have conflicts.

Not one place in that quote does it say you HAVE to pvp or remain in Fel. So you wanted this debate and wanted to bring it up and say MY argument is null and flawed, when in fact it is your own posting that nullifies YOUR argument. Enough about that, I can already see your gears turning to try to come up with another witty response. Do yourself a favor and stay under that rock until you can come up with a REAL argument.

Moving on...

If you have Faction items, you have agreed to fight for the right to wear them...anywhere! If you put yourself in a location where you abrogate that agreement, you need to loose the use of them, per the game rules. Of course, you have stated that you desire to play by the rules.

Bold first:
I really really think you do understand the meaning of the word "conflict". I will save you the posting of the definition of the word, that is so cliche. But, I can tell you conflict is not limited to only fighting. In case you dont know, someone can take on the role of commander, politician, CRAFTER all of these are acceptable in THIS WORLD. After all Ultima Online is in fact a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Like it or not, or even if you dont want to accept it, it is and always will be. YOU agreed to that when you clicked "login". So your argument is null and void based on the true spirit and nature of this game! MMORPG! Not everyone shares your views on the definition of conflict or how they should play in a mmorpg. And rightfully so, because the beauty of a role playing game is, there are so many different ways to play the game.

Underline Next:
First, please direct me to the place in the handbook where it states "you need to loose the use of them, per the game rules.". Call me stupid, I cannot seem to find it.

Second, are you saying that Fel crafters do not have the right to wear faction items if they dont fight and sit in a house at all times making gear and traps? What if their traps kill people? Isint that them earning the right to wear them? Weather they are there or not when the kill takes place?

Should crafters have to remove their faction items when they are crafting? That is what you are suggesting by what you said...

If you put yourself in a location where you abrogate that agreement, you need to loose the use of them,

Would being in a house that is private not fall under your definition here?

Listen bud, you want to debate with me fine, you will lose every single time. Since the rules of the game OR factions do not specifically state you MUST fight OR remain in Fel, no one is breaking the game rules. These rules you speak of, where you MUST remain in Fel, are rules that you came up with in your own mind. There are no rules stating you must remain in Fel or even fight if you do not wish to in order to remain in or use faction items. PERIOD! There is no way to word smith around this, there is no argument you can put forward that will hold water until EA puts out a specific rule stating that. Which there is NONE! I do however challenge you to find a rule that does in fact state that, clearly. Until then, it was boring debating with you, you showed no sort of argument, case or cause short of what you think the players should adhere to. And in the end, what you say a rule 'should' mean or 'does' mean, will not change that fact of what the rule 'actually' means. No matter how hard you try.

God what a boring argument you put up. Can anyone do better with specific rules? I love a good debate.

 

[Paps]

If indeed all these `faction gear wearing` people are merely twammies.
Then all this really is,,,,is a
"oh pweese Devs,,,,let us kill twammies in twam" posts.
Which have probably been around sinse Trams creation.
[thank god i haven't been reading stratics that long]
I cant say for all shards but i beleive the way factions was intended
is not at all being acheived.People joined factions for the superior gear.
Both the PVM and PVP people did this.[heaven forbid anyone does both]
Most people dont try to hold towns at all after they get the colored horses.
People joined for the gear.Sure they fight OJ`s when they see them,this is no different than when they were non-factioned,They would still fight each other.This is proved in the fact that there is `in-faction fighting`
If indeed all these `faction gear wearing` people are merely twammies.
That means they are not at all interested in PVP. So if the Devs let factions spill over into other facets then these twammies will leave factions,,,,the result of that is the same ten people you fight with now at yew gate will be the only people in factions. Now if your goal is to force the twammies to not wear faction gear this would acheive this.Which most twammies are not in factions.Maybe the shard of the OP is different but i cant say ive seen any all PVM guilds rocking the faction gear.Also just because you don't see these people fighting at yew gate doesn't mean they aren't running a T2A spawn while you peeps are playing grab-arse at the yew gate.
However if your shard is to where there are only ten PVP`ers on it,,,,one might consider going to a more populated shard that they still ping well on.