Everyone's a Millionaire

[Connor_Graham]

But at the very least new comers to the game should not so heavily play with such a gross handicap determined by not only their lower experience but also by their vast inferior wealth and stock of high end items necessary to survive the PvP lands and be competitive.

With PvP Arenas we could help players train up PvP combat, but it is also necessary to make it less troublesome for new players to be able to "gear up" to the competition of experienced players without this looking a nightmare task.

For the last time for the brain dead, brand new players will not be going out to PvP anytime soon after starting the game. Your idea that a brand new player should be PvP ready within 4 months after starting is the most idiotic statement I've ever seen in the history of gaming. In 4 months they're still trying to GM their first skill, much less thinking about PvP. Now, since you don't PvP AT ALL, why don't you stop using this sorry excuse to have something to argue about? I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do, and my experience spans a whole month in Fel.

For that matter, I'm pretty sure Obama knows more about PvP than you do.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

You are incorrect as the base-line has not adjusted to a realized potential across the spectrum of viable acquistion and distribution.

A simple example may help?

Let us look at a house location. Say a modest 7 x 7.

First: It needs to be accessable, if not by location then by advertising.

Second: Accessibility = traffic = % of profit/gain.

Third: A new player (aside from the wonderous common gift of gold that most do not see) must earn the initial cost of a home to even place a vender and then subsidize the vender's life (maintainance).

The logic path proceeds but that is not the real issue.

Because you have a lot of gold/assets does not mean a new player has anywhere near the capital power that you possess. That is barring another player simply giving them everything.

Here is a prime example in effect;

Based on my assumption that you are of Indo-European descent nad primarily an English speaking individual, I suggest you start a character on Arirang. It is not based on Seige P. rules so the general conditions aside from terrain modification are relative to Atlantic (by the way, I play on both shards and am pleased to pursue this in-game if desired).

Now go forth with your NEW Toon AND equipped with your knowledge of the game.

Today is January 27th 2010.

I will wager right here right now (barring being gifted gold/items/or a home) you WILL NOT earn a million gold in a week as you suggest EVERY new player can. That part is based on your integrity of course. Another person on these boards may have a few million on Arirang as do I and them GIVING you a hand negates the wager.

So take the test. Post your new Arirang character's name, I can (optionally) meet with you as we do a controlled study of your progress instead of merely thumping our respective virtual chests.

And as an aside, Arirang players generally throw what they do not want out onto the bank floor. Powerscrolls included by the way. Got a nice 120 Smithing scroll one day in Skara Brae. So there will be even more "gimmes" available.

Today is January 27th 2010.

50k gets you a vendor at luna.
Tons of places in Luna.
Yeah Yeah. Okay say 200k a month luna vendor. Now thats just about any location in luna. Thats peanuts.

When you look at an economy you look at objects sold and bought. Not location or effort to sell.

From a pure perspective of.... Hey Im new. "Thanks for taking me on this Travesty hunt. I got this mask of Travesty with taming."

That new player is immediately immersed in a functioning economy. Unless human nature comes in (which isnt the economy) someone will let him now its an easy 15 million selling it with no work or a bit harder sell at 30 million.

That new player walks away with gold from selling an object that has had its price adjusted to the current amount of gold in the market.

It really dont see how this is not understood. BUY and SELL. The prices on those end reflect each other.

As for "Accessible" you make the flaw of thinking Luna matters. It does on the amount of traffic. However, a vendor is stupidly cheap there for all the complaining.

All houses are accessible. It requires time to drop runes and gate. This is game work ethic. Not economy.

Building a vendor house, mine is in ter mur, I give out free vendors. Now there are about 8 of us dropping runes and gating. Traffic flows nicely.

Many people dont use houses. The sell at bank. Thats great for big objects.

But all the above is game style not economy. No one is banned from selling in any capacity.

FINALLY, a new player will always be new. You dont define what new is. You dont define what a reasonable period of newness is.

I do not believe a new player should be given everything. I know for a fact. Look up my old posts of when I want to Chessy with nothing.

I was given a free vendor in Luna. A few 100k from someone. Someone gave me an 18x18 house in trammel. I worked the vendor up. In a month had millions.

Now I have knowledge. I got it from playing. Nothing you or I describe can substitute just playing and learning the game. Once a new player does that. Everything is availble to them. It has nothing to do with economies and everything to do with just playing.


Dude. This AM i walked to a vendor outside of luna to look a Smugglars Lanters. I opened a box. He had a skeleton mask, a gazer mask, and a bloodworm mask. They were each 20k. I sold them at the bank for 5 million gold. Everything else rubble etc where are priced spot on the nose.

Making gold is easy because I know. A new player needs to talk to me or players, play the game and learn.

Oh an one point. The Airang economy and the Atlantic economy are different why? Not Luna. Number of players.

If I were to go to Airang. I would do what I did on Chessy. Hi I am new can you help me. And you get help. Howcome? Because UO is an interactive game. Thats how you start when new.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Disagree. I tell you why.
Your first and second example. If the player can affort a house what are they 60k to place forgot how much 7x7 cost it would be more benefitial to rent a vender in a vender mall where they do the advertising for them. They will know this if they do the leg work of researching.

Your third example as a newbie player in a rpg the first thing they gonna do is pvm to generate gold into the system. It will take them time to work there skills while they do that they will earn gold and save it while learning more in about the game and looting better items. There first achievement might be a boat or house so they wait till they earn money for that. With a goal they can strive for they will stay interested and continue to pay monthly to EA.
Once they level up there skills using looted items selling to people at free rented venders or very low cost rentel venders they buy there first home and place it. They have finaly achieved that goal now they need to set another goal. Eventually they will finaly rent a place at luna and have items to sell there generating revenue like never before. While building up other characteristics of there adventure.

No new player should start rich. NON of us did it took us a long time. It will also take them a long time. Thats the essence of a RPG game.
Now the economy is scaled. When back in the days it took us a year to earn 300k gold but everything was worth 10k-5k-1k. So the items we sold to people took us a while to generate income. Not to mention gold from monsters was one of the only ways to generate gold and selling to npc. We didn't even have venders. So it was very difficult to aquire gold. But the market knows this and sold the most powerful weapons ,armor ,rares for 50k-30k etc..
The gold dupes happen and increase the player base gold dramaticaly in a short time. Before that 1mil gold was like 50-100 dollars real cash. As more gold became easily available the value decreased and selling the highest end item for 50k anymore made no sence. Then over the years gold continue to decrease in value so it took more gold to buy same items. But at the same time It took more gold to sell the same items as well so people bough-sell-bought-sell. Money being redistrubuted between the population untill most of the population was in the same range.
The gold that enter the game rarely ever leaves so one day one person is rich the next day that gold gets redistrubuted to another person and that person is rich while the one who gave is gold gets poorer. New gold into the system is generated from PvM and NPC. That rate has being curved and in control. At it stands till this day getting new gold from the system is the slowest way to make any gold. Which is good as there is enough gold out there already to be redistrubuted.
A new player how rare they are will have to start from scratch and work there way up just like everyone else had to. Though this time when a artifact drops in there pack they can sell it for 100k instead of 1k to slowly make there way up.
Unfortunetely there has being a dev. major impact on the economy these past couple of years maybe they fire the dev who monitor the way Uo economy works. They have made many profitable items worth much less yet gold at the same time has increased in the sytem. This in turn has made it harder for the poorer people of UO to sell there goods to the richer people of UO for higher amounts so that more gold is redistributed downward. So in turn the richer people remain richer and the poorer remain poorer it will take them much longer to get to where we at now than it would of taken them just a couple of years ago.

Bingo good points

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

For the last time for the brain dead, brand new players will not be going out to PvP anytime soon after starting the game. Your idea that a brand new player should be PvP ready within 4 months after starting is the most idiotic statement I've ever seen in the history of gaming. In 4 months they're still trying to GM their first skill, much less thinking about PvP. Now, since you don't PvP AT ALL, why don't you stop using this sorry excuse to have something to argue about? I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do, and my experience spans a whole month in Fel.

For that matter, I'm pretty sure Obama knows more about PvP than you do.

Took me a year to GM skills.
I agree.

Now people think. Skill token. (I DONT SCRIPT but..) Okay 100. Now I need 120. Dang I shouldnt have to wait 9 days to do this.

Does anyone work in UO anymore. Oh its game. I forgot.

 

[Trebr Drab]

But at the very least new comers to the game should not so heavily play with such a gross handicap determined by not only their lower experience but also by their vast inferior wealth and stock of high end items necessary to survive the PvP lands and be competitive.

With PvP Arenas we could help players train up PvP combat, but it is also necessary to make it less troublesome for new players to be able to "gear up" to the competition of experienced players without this looking a nightmare task.

For the last time for the brain dead, brand new players will not be going out to PvP anytime soon after starting the game. Your idea that a brand new player should be PvP ready within 4 months after starting is the most idiotic statement I've ever seen in the history of gaming. In 4 months they're still trying to GM their first skill, much less thinking about PvP. Now, since you don't PvP AT ALL, why don't you stop using this sorry excuse to have something to argue about? I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do, and my experience spans a whole month in Fel.

For that matter, I'm pretty sure Obama knows more about PvP than you do.

Where did he say "brand new"?

And how long would you deem it necessary for a player to play before they can start PvPing, and how much do you require they spend at your vendors before they can compete, your magestic Luna-ticness?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Where did he say "brand new"?

He's stated several times that he expects a player, after only 4 months of starting the game, should be able to walk into Fel with the same gear as someone that's been playing for 12 years.

And how long would you deem it necessary for a player to play before they can start PvPing, and how much do you require they spend at your vendors before they can compete, your magestic Luna-ticness?

First, I don't sell PvP supplies, gear, or weapons. Second, I don't own a Luna house or have any vendors in Luna. As to how long, that would depend on the person and how much time they have to play and how quickly they learn. All I can say is it damn sure isn't gong to be within the 4 month time frame that Miss Lohan says it should be.

 

[UOKaiser]

Where did he say "brand new"?

And how long would you deem it necessary for a player to play before they can start PvPing, and how much do you require they spend at your vendors before they can compete, your magestic Luna-ticness?

They can PVP immediately and die immedietely to a experience vet or they can pvp against another newbie and might win or get help from a pvp guild or just join siege if pvp is what they really want to do without worrying about the rest of the game.At least in siege by the time they develop there skills they will be experience enough to survive some. How long can before a character can survive as a newbie in siege without help? 7months-1 year?
If they want to max out a character which is part of the end game like a vet in production then they have to play rpg aspect of the game. Let me see after 11-12years am still trying to max all my characters with the best so I think 11-12 years after am finished if they start now.

 

[Demonous]

On Pacific I have about 18 Million and have not actively played there in around 5 years.

On Atlantic I recently returned and began playing my characters again. Inside of two weeks I went from 100K to over 2.5 Million.

Similar story in some respects on Drachenfels, Arirang and Oceania.

Simply disgusting really.

My account is of the age that each house on each shard is grandfathered and thus I have a home of varying size on each shard I frequent.

My point is that I can understand how UO can be intimdating to a truly new player.

On player vendors (except mine usually) most items are listed starting around 25K and going up to the millions. How is a true noob supposed to earn that cash? I know a few techniques but seriously!

120 Magery, Tailor or Smith scrolls go for millions of gold. Even single weapons or armor go for that.

Some players have so much gold their banks are full and they are storing the cash on vendors.

Ridiculous really.

So, you are a UO development team member. How do you fix or adjust this?

One idea is a new shard with a fresh new start that does not allow tranfers into it.

Another is using a simple price fixing code on player vendors that only allow price caps 10 levels above retail of an item.

But these are just random thoughts. What are some of your ideas?

new players are kind of screwed, you need gold to make gold, then again im sure most people just buy it somewhere, although if it were up to me gold would have never been sold to anyone for cash because that is taking the easy way out and ive always been against it

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Well for fun one time.
I joined a guild with a new mage.
That day I killed people with fireballs.

Id just hang out till people were almost dead and kill them. YES YES I was an EVIL MAGE.

I was in a gang. Is that PvP.

My opininon is every one forgets the game is dynamic. You start and grow.

When I was new 10 years ago. I got some armor, 25k and nice shields. Today its some armour and a million gold. Same dang thing.

Why. 1 million buys what 25k bought 10 years ago. Close enough for the point.

No one is a millionare. 000's are just added.

 

[Kirthag]

Whilst cruising over some other site.. particularly of guilds who moved on to other games... I found this jewel. and yes, I have permission to use it...

What advances a character are the players one meets. What -defines- a character are the weight of one's actions. Only in a game where one or many has the power to alter the fate of the world itself, can one's actions have meaning. And only in a game where one has the power to choose, can one choose their own path.

Developers cannot create those experiences - rather, they provide the environment for them to happen. UO did that.

Never truer words were spoke.


Items help, but it is the DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT we choose to play in that really makes UO what it is. In what other game can you build a temple, create a "god" character and form a cult with ideals that contradict the norm? Or for that matter, help create another guild to battle the first?

*sigh*


Players do that. Not devs.

 

[Suzzy]

Inflation is a phenomenon that can not be "fixed". Granted, inflation in UO happened at a staggering rate, but it's simply too difficult to combat it. You can slow it down, but you can't revert it unless you make people start over.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Inflation is a phenomenon that can not be "fixed". Granted, inflation in UO happened at a staggering rate, but it's simply too difficult to combat it. You can slow it down, but you can't revert it unless you make people start over.

You can fix inflation. Two ways that I can think of.
1) Gold sinks
2) A new system of money, expanded. At minimum you need to add one more coin type, of a higher value, then switch all NPC prices to that new coin type.
Example:
Add a platinum coin worth 10 gold coins
Change all NPC prices to the same value except in platinum instead of gold.
Gold suddenly becomes devalued, and is worth 1/10 of what it was. New platinum coins aren't inflated.

 

[Suzzy]

You can fix inflation. Two ways that I can think of.
1) Gold sinks
2) A new system of money, expanded. At minimum you need to add one more coin type, of a higher value, then switch all NPC prices to that new coin type.
Example:
Add a platinum coin worth 10 gold coins
Change all NPC prices to the same value except in platinum instead of gold.
Gold suddenly becomes devalued, and is worth 1/10 of what it was. New platinum coins aren't inflated.

1) There is no viable gold sink that you can put into the game that would reverse inflation without screwing over a lot of people. You can slow down inflation with gold sinks, but not reverse it.

2) I suppose if you forced everyone to use a new currency, you'd lower what they have. So instead of having 1 billion gold, a player would have 100 million plat. In terms of quantity, yes things are lowered, but all you're really doing is using oranges instead of apples. Not sure if that really makes much of a difference.


Both attempts would probably **** off a lot of people which is why I think they won't do anything drastic. They might take measures to slow down inflation, but I can't see them doing anything more than that.

 

[Trebr Drab]

You can fix inflation. Two ways that I can think of.
1) Gold sinks
2) A new system of money, expanded. At minimum you need to add one more coin type, of a higher value, then switch all NPC prices to that new coin type.
Example:
Add a platinum coin worth 10 gold coins
Change all NPC prices to the same value except in platinum instead of gold.
Gold suddenly becomes devalued, and is worth 1/10 of what it was. New platinum coins aren't inflated.

1) There is no viable gold sink that you can put into the game that would reverse inflation without screwing over a lot of people. You can slow down inflation with gold sinks, but not reverse it.

2) I suppose if you forced everyone to use a new currency, you'd lower what they have. So instead of having 1 billion gold, a player would have 100 million plat. In terms of quantity, yes things are lowered, but all you're really doing is using oranges instead of apples. Not sure if that really makes much of a difference.


Both attempts would probably **** off a lot of people which is why I think they won't do anything drastic. They might take measures to slow down inflation, but I can't see them doing anything more than that.

Yep. Everybody would be ticked off. Especially the "haves". So we can all just live with the inflation we have.

 

[Megilhir]

Bah,

The point is that UO has become busted for a truely new player experience.

Wiggle and twist all you like about this vender or that vender and how "easy" it is to make millions.

It is not unless fortune smiles upon the new player.

People run scripts, there is duping and speed hacking accompanied by a slew of other serious flaws.

Disregard or belittle as you desire yet these remain concerns.

Kind of akin to the whole Banking industry presently. "What can't we get bonuses, we earned them!!"

 

[Suzzy]

I agree with you. Any new player coming into the game who doesn't know what's going on would easily get frustrated when they see that they only start out with 1k gold and everything around them costs millions.

The question is what can be done to help new players ease into the game better without screwing over your veterans who've been playing/paying for your game for years.

 

[Kirthag]

The question is what can be done to help new players ease into the game better without screwing over your veterans who've been playing/paying for your game for years.

Rather than looking at game mechanics, look at the culture in the game - ie: look to the other players.


The more "successful" shards right now have guilds and individuals who spend time in Haven, greet the young and help them along. There are vendors geared toward helping the newbies with armor and items they can use and afford without costing millions (my own vendors are like that - but not in Luna; I don't have Luna vendors).

The shards suffering population shortfalls (hence less activity) do no such thing.


The veterans of UO came here and we learned with each other. The new generation of players who come don't have that, thus they are not so attached, and they leave quickly.


Help develop community and that will turn things around.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Yep. Everybody would be ticked off. Especially the "haves". So we can all just live with the inflation we have.

Treb Treb Treb.


Gold sinks would work. I agree.

You just got an attachment to 0's

Adding currency, just adds another layer. Like she said. 1 billion gold or 100 platinum. Is the same thing.

Your just change clothes. Not value.

Dividing gold in half does nothing.

Inflation isnt about larger numbers. Its about many things.

1 big issue is gold is easy to get. Champ spawn piles for 1. YET regs, runes, are still 2 gold or 3 gold.

Think about it.

 

[Megilhir]

One simple consideration is value taxation. 1% ever real-life weekly of a person’s total gold and property holdings. 1% is an average that affects everyone equally.

Another is readjusting venders. When a person buys an item the gold goes to that vender owner’s bank, like some quest rewards. Second; Gold put on a vender stays on a vender, no retrieval. This stops gold storage on venders. A minor step but a step none the less.
This falls short though when a piece of specially dyed cloth (or whatever item) is listed to NPCs for 18 gold and the going rate is 1,000,000.

One drastic consideration which I advocated last century is to have no rares. Everything can be bought except player crafted items. Snow Globes, Runic Hammers, Runic Sewing kits, Pink Champagne, Rocks and so forth.

Everything available in the game but not player crafted could be made available from various NPCs with unlimited amounts available (or 999,999 of each every cycle). Now everything is special so nothing is, more or less.

Conversely, make items NO DROP. The character that gets it keeps it. Or sells to an NPC, unravels, smelts etc.

Additionally, make an area that you can only enter naked or in common clothing. That area would have a low level type of items available within it. Swords, bows, reagents, etc. This is limited to the common low level NPC available gear. It is a PvP enable area. Now let’s see that skill people brag about. Your skills (but not stats) revert to 100 max while in that area. A warning appears that you are about to enter the area. Make hundreds of entry points, no gate camping here.

Make resources quadrupled and half the weight in this area. Make poison ineffective. No summoning. No Recalling (et al). No Gating. No insurance. Add titles for accomplishments in this area. Monsters aggro on Murderers and greys. Imagine that tiny bunny and dog rushing to the aid of a beleaguered miner beset by an evil PK. If a randomly determine number of murders occur in a certain area Avenging Angels appear and attack all the greys and reds immediately. The Avenging Angels get speed hack qualities. Now how tough are you and your ganksters?

On a different note;
Make NPC posses who go after Reds, (on any shard) even in their homes, on-line or perhaps even off-line. Just because the murderer is “sleeping” doesn’t mean the posse is. There could and should be a toll to be paid if you murder. Have homes that allow a Murderer as a friend or co-owner burnt with all belongings if the randomly generated posse appears and hunts the Red down. The foundation remains.

Sure makes people choose their friends carefully huh? How tough now my fellow SP players? My toon has been there since SP was created and has never murdered, but he has definitely killed. Interesting how many people think a Miner/Smith won’t be packing a Deadly Poisoned kryss and know how to use it.

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of options, but it takes a competent visionary team assisted and aided by competent game developers and designers. It takes dedication and a vision to see that the UO concept need not be dead and cold.

 

[Megilhir]

Treb Treb Treb.


Gold sinks would work. I agree.

You just got an attachment to 0's

Adding currency, just adds another layer. Like she said. 1 billion gold or 100 platinum. Is the same thing.

Your just change clothes. Not value.

Dividing gold in half does nothing.

Inflation isnt about larger numbers. Its about many things.

1 big issue is gold is easy to get. Champ spawn piles for 1. YET regs, runes, are still 2 gold or 3 gold.

Think about it.

With a few years of formal and practical economic principles I catagorically state you are incorrect when applying this logic you have espoused against UO based on the margin of difference resident in the program. You keep stating it that 0's don't matter but you are wrong. Saying it often does not make it any more valid.

If you know anyone involved in economics they could serve to enlighten you beyond my statements.

The best answer given thus far is probably the simplist. A player start with a 1,000 gold and most desireable) things cost 1,000,000(+). There is devaluation to the veterans but NOT the new or young players. The other arguements serve as detractors.

"Ah that's the ticket, a stubborn unwillingness to see facts in the face will see us through." Black Adder

 

[Trebr Drab]

Inflation is a phenomenon that can not be "fixed". Granted, inflation in UO happened at a staggering rate, but it's simply too difficult to combat it. You can slow it down, but you can't revert it unless you make people start over.

You can fix inflation. Two ways that I can think of.
1) Gold sinks
2) A new system of money, expanded. At minimum you need to add one more coin type, of a higher value, then switch all NPC prices to that new coin type.
Example:
Add a platinum coin worth 10 gold coins
Change all NPC prices to the same value except in platinum instead of gold.
Gold suddenly becomes devalued, and is worth 1/10 of what it was. New platinum coins aren't inflated.

Yep. Everybody would be ticked off. Especially the "haves". So we can all just live with the inflation we have.

Treb Treb Treb.


Gold sinks would work. I agree.

You just got an attachment to 0's

Adding currency, just adds another layer. Like she said. 1 billion gold or 100 platinum. Is the same thing.

Your just change clothes. Not value.

Dividing gold in half does nothing.

Inflation isnt about larger numbers. Its about many things.

1 big issue is gold is easy to get. Champ spawn piles for 1. YET regs, runes, are still 2 gold or 3 gold.

Think about it.

No, and I don't know why this is hard to see for anyone.
This would switch from a gold based economy to a platinum based. The platinum isn't inflated as the gold has become.
Want to buy a reg? You pay 3 platinum instead of 3 gold.
Want to run a collector's quest? You pay 1,000 platinum for the same benefit as the gold used to give you.
It devalues the gold that's so abundant in UO. There's no doubt about it and this should be easy to see for any and all.

But in the end, as I said, players just don't want to give up anything, even if it would make UO a better game and draw in more players. There's a lot more that needs to be done, of course, for new players to stick. I've made many suggestions. But very very few will accept my solutions. The biggest problem with UO is the players themselves.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No, and I don't know why this is hard to see for anyone.
This would switch from a gold based economy to a platinum based. The platinum isn't inflated as the gold has become.
Want to buy a reg? You pay 3 platinum instead of 3 gold.
Want to run a collector's quest? You pay 1,000 platinum for the same benefit as the gold used to give you.
It devalues the gold that's so abundant in UO. There's no doubt about it and this should be easy to see for any and all.

But in the end, as I said, players just don't want to give up anything, even if it would make UO a better game and draw in more players. There's a lot more that needs to be done, of course, for new players to stick. I've made many suggestions. But very very few will accept my solutions. The biggest problem with UO is the players themselves.

Let me know when the switch to platinum will take place and I'll convert all of my gold into commodities, then resell for platinum once the change is made.

There ya go, I still have just as much after as I did before.

Changing currency would do nothing.

 

[Suzzy]

All very valid points across the board. In order to address this issue you'd have to adjust the game a lot, which may have very adverse affects.

I think that drastic changes could fix things, but are those changes really necessary, or worth it? If so, how would they affect the game as a whole for your casual player, your hardcore player, or your newbie player.

In the end, I don't think changing anything at this point in the game will help it enough to warrant it. You'd have to figure out a way to measure how many people would hate the change and how many would welcome it. You'd then have to determine if you're willing to **** off some people to make a lot of people happier, or vice versa.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

No, and I don't know why this is hard to see for anyone.
This would switch from a gold based economy to a platinum based. The platinum isn't inflated as the gold has become.
Want to buy a reg? You pay 3 platinum instead of 3 gold.
Want to run a collector's quest? You pay 1,000 platinum for the same benefit as the gold used to give you.
It devalues the gold that's so abundant in UO. There's no doubt about it and this should be easy to see for any and all.

But in the end, as I said, players just don't want to give up anything, even if it would make UO a better game and draw in more players. There's a lot more that needs to be done, of course, for new players to stick. I've made many suggestions. But very very few will accept my solutions. The biggest problem with UO is the players themselves.

So if I had 100 million gold.
You would give me 100 million platinum?

Or would you give me 1 platinum for ever 10 gold so I end up with 10 million platinum?

You know all your doing is changing ZERO's

Unless you saying wipe gold and just start with platinum? Im not sure what you mean. Its not clear.

Cause if I had an item worth 10 million gold. And you introduced a platinum swap. 1 for 10 gold.

The new item would be worth 1 million platinum or 10 million gold. What is the difference.

NADA.

I suppose you can stick with no one wants to give anything up. As they say... you could always give your stuff up and go to Siege.

But hey.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

All very valid points across the board. In order to address this issue you'd have to adjust the game a lot, which may have very adverse affects.

I think that drastic changes could fix things, but are those changes really necessary, or worth it? If so, how would they affect the game as a whole for your casual player, your hardcore player, or your newbie player.

In the end, I don't think changing anything at this point in the game will help it enough to warrant it. You'd have to figure out a way to measure how many people would hate the change and how many would welcome it. You'd then have to determine if you're willing to **** off some people to make a lot of people happier, or vice versa.

No point to change when nothing is broken.
New player is immediately immersed into a working economy.

Yeah gold is high in zeros. But 1 million gold buys what 100k bought 10 years ago.

Its a zeros thing. NOW IF EVERYONY had MILLIONS and the prices stayed as of 10 years ago... you have a problem. Because item values go up. There is no problem.

 

[Trebr Drab]

No, and I don't know why this is hard to see for anyone.
This would switch from a gold based economy to a platinum based. The platinum isn't inflated as the gold has become.
Want to buy a reg? You pay 3 platinum instead of 3 gold.
Want to run a collector's quest? You pay 1,000 platinum for the same benefit as the gold used to give you.
It devalues the gold that's so abundant in UO. There's no doubt about it and this should be easy to see for any and all.

But in the end, as I said, players just don't want to give up anything, even if it would make UO a better game and draw in more players. There's a lot more that needs to be done, of course, for new players to stick. I've made many suggestions. But very very few will accept my solutions. The biggest problem with UO is the players themselves.

Let me know when the switch to platinum will take place and I'll convert all of my gold into commodities, then resell for platinum once the change is made.

There ya go, I still have just as much after as I did before.

Changing currency would do nothing.

No, and I don't know why this is hard to see for anyone.
This would switch from a gold based economy to a platinum based. The platinum isn't inflated as the gold has become.
Want to buy a reg? You pay 3 platinum instead of 3 gold.
Want to run a collector's quest? You pay 1,000 platinum for the same benefit as the gold used to give you.
It devalues the gold that's so abundant in UO. There's no doubt about it and this should be easy to see for any and all.

But in the end, as I said, players just don't want to give up anything, even if it would make UO a better game and draw in more players. There's a lot more that needs to be done, of course, for new players to stick. I've made many suggestions. But very very few will accept my solutions. The biggest problem with UO is the players themselves.

So if I had 100 million gold.
You would give me 100 million platinum?

Or would you give me 1 platinum for ever 10 gold so I end up with 10 million platinum?

You know all your doing is changing ZERO's

Unless you saying wipe gold and just start with platinum? Im not sure what you mean. Its not clear.

Cause if I had an item worth 10 million gold. And you introduced a platinum swap. 1 for 10 gold.

The new item would be worth 1 million platinum or 10 million gold. What is the difference.

NADA.

I suppose you can stick with no one wants to give anything up. As they say... you could always give your stuff up and go to Siege.

But hey.

LOL, you guys are trying to be this dense?

No, no exchanges of coins to do away with the gold coin. It still exists. You still have your gold, and your merchandise. And if you want to change something straight up in value for platinum, well, where's it going to come from? The game simply won't have the excessive amounts of platinums like it has in gold.

 

[Connor_Graham]

LOL, you guys are trying to be this dense?

I think you may want to take a look in the mirror for the one that's being dense. I don't know how much clearer things can be spelled out for you. Your idea won't work, period. The relative value will still be there, period.

 

[UOKaiser]

LOL, you guys are trying to be this dense?

No, no exchanges of coins to do away with the gold coin. It still exists. You still have your gold, and your merchandise. And if you want to change something straight up in value for platinum, well, where's it going to come from? The game simply won't have the excessive amounts of platinums like it has in gold.

This is converting value into another currency. Example it takes a average player a year to optain 10k platinum. The Item in question which used to sell for 200million now sells for 10k platinum. If it took a player 1 day to aquire 1million platimun then the item will probably be woth 2-3 billion platininum. It's just a convertion of value.

 

[Suzzy]

Perhaps he's making the assumption that prices would not change?

A NPC would go from charging 100 gold to 100 plat, disregarding the whole conversion so essentially ripping off everyone. That's the only thing I can come up with to make sense of the logic that is being provided even though my proposed assumption is ridiculous.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I think you may want to take a look in the mirror for the one that's being dense. I don't know how much clearer things can be spelled out for you. Your idea won't work, period. The relative value will still be there, period.

Thanks relative value is the concept i was searching for.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

LOL, you guys are trying to be this dense?

No, no exchanges of coins to do away with the gold coin. It still exists. You still have your gold, and your merchandise. And if you want to change something straight up in value for platinum, well, where's it going to come from? The game simply won't have the excessive amounts of platinums like it has in gold.

Ah master mind. Did you hear of faction silver.

Well you collect 1k silver but sell it for 400k gold.

Relative value.

And why do you need platinum Mr Dense you have valorite ingots.

1 ingot for 200 gold.

Now you cant freely use valorite or silver I give you that but everyone knows the value.

GUESS I AM DENSE and your concept is out of my grasp.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Perhaps he's making the assumption that prices would not change?

A NPC would go from charging 100 gold to 100 plat, disregarding the whole conversion so essentially ripping off everyone. That's the only thing I can come up with to make sense of the logic that is being provided even though my proposed assumption is ridiculous.

Except that all you'd have to do is prior to the change, go and buy (for example) 500 million gold worth of mage reagents at 3 gp each. After conversion turn around and sell the reagents back to the NPC at 3 platinum each. You've now got exactly the same amount of platinum as you had gold, so nothing at all has changed.

 

[Suzzy]

There's always loopholes. All I was trying to do was make an attempt at making sense of that Treb was saying.

 

[Connor_Graham]

There's always loopholes. All I was trying to do was make an attempt at making sense of that Treb was saying.

We understand exactly what he was trying to say, which is why we told him it won't work for just the reason I explained, plus the fact that the relative value of items remains exactly the same.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Perhaps he's making the assumption that prices would not change?

A NPC would go from charging 100 gold to 100 plat, disregarding the whole conversion so essentially ripping off everyone. That's the only thing I can come up with to make sense of the logic that is being provided even though my proposed assumption is ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous? That is it. It would decrease the value of gold, which everyone has, and substitute platinum in it's place, which everyone doesn't have.

Perhaps he's making the assumption that prices would not change?

A NPC would go from charging 100 gold to 100 plat, disregarding the whole conversion so essentially ripping off everyone. That's the only thing I can come up with to make sense of the logic that is being provided even though my proposed assumption is ridiculous.

Except that all you'd have to do is prior to the change, go and buy (for example) 500 million gold worth of mage reagents at 3 gp each. After conversion turn around and sell the reagents back to the NPC at 3 platinum each. You've now got exactly the same amount of platinum as you had gold, so nothing at all has changed.

Oh come on. That's easy to work around. Ya just don't tell people you're going to do it ahead of time.

But rest easy, Connor. Your system that you love so much, so dearly, will remain in place, problems and all.

 

[wanderer1origin]

so genius we have a 100 platinum insted of a million gold how is that any different or better

changing name isnt a cure


if they dropped loot for beasts and put in a gold sink after like 6 years game might stablisze on gold values till then a billion gold rich rest not rich

till then whine play game or quit

LOL, you guys are trying to be this dense?

No, no exchanges of coins to do away with the gold coin. It still exists. You still have your gold, and your merchandise. And if you want to change something straight up in value for platinum, well, where's it going to come from? The game simply won't have the excessive amounts of platinums like it has in gold.

 

[Trebr Drab]

so genius we have a 100 platinum insted of a million gold how is that any different or better

changing name isnt a cure


if they dropped loot for beasts and put in a gold sink after like 6 years game might stablisze on gold values till then a billion gold rich rest not rich

till then whine play game or quit

Because people don't have that much of this new coin. Gold has been inflated over the years through many ways. One of the biggest was dupes. Another big one was all the players who quit and left their gold to friends, thus not taking it out of the game with them. Another huge one was the scripts running the abuses and oversights like the tailors. Plus the natural build up over the years from natural means of acquiring gold. But this new coin, "platinum" or "crowns" or whatever was chosen, would not have been inflated, and the entire economy would now be based on this un-inflated new currency.

You might have billions of gold, but it can buy only 1/10th of what it used to from non-player sources. It would take time to build up this new coinage, and be devoid of the abuses from the past. If your selling something for 10 mil gold, you won't be able to sell it for 10 mil of the new coin. And you won't get away with selling it for 10x the old price in gold.

 

[UOKaiser]

Because people don't have that much of this new coin. Gold has been inflated over the years through many ways. One of the biggest was dupes. Another big one was all the players who quit and left their gold to friends, thus not taking it out of the game with them. Another huge one was the scripts running the abuses and oversights like the tailors. Plus the natural build up over the years from natural means of acquiring gold. But this new coin, "platinum" or "crowns" or whatever was chosen, would not have been inflated, and the entire economy would now be based on this un-inflated new currency.

You might have billions of gold, but it can buy only 1/10th of what it used to from non-player sources. It would take time to build up this new coinage, and be devoid of the abuses from the past. If your selling something for 10 mil gold, you won't be able to sell it for 10 mil of the new coin. And you won't get away with selling it for 10x the old price in gold.

With all the holes in this using the analogy 1k platinum will be the new 100million. So a item worth 100million gold in the old system will sell for 1k platinum. Even so it will take a long time for poorer players to get 1k platinum. Those who know the game and care about becoming more wealthy will always have more than those who don't care about it. Inflation happened but it always happen. some day more players will have 1k platinum so the new high would be 50k platinum and the market will adjust to that price up till finaly depending how much platinum is in the market that is what they items will sell fall.
Thats how it was before inflation earlie days of uo. It required players to spend 50k gold to get high end items but because it took a player such a long time to aquire such gold it might as well be todays 1billion.
If your theory is to somehow wipe out the accounts of players that being around over a decade over night lol. I don't think UO will be standing the next morning as I can see a mass exodus of subscriptions leaving with so much anger that am sure even chinese government will ban UO.

Imagine the possibilities that Uo still stands which I don't believe for a bit after such a action. The rich will return to being rich and the poor will stay poor simply because they got rich for a reason and worked hard for it in UO they know all the in and outs, they care about making more and thats what they do for fun. While the poor have other interest in the game and wouldn't care or know how to make more so they will stay where they at.

 

[Connor_Graham]

It would decrease the value of gold, which everyone has, and substitute platinum in it's place, which everyone doesn't have.

It would do nothing but change the number of zeros in people's bank accounts. That's it. They still have the same comparative amount as they had before. If Joe Blow has X amount of gold, and Joe Shmoe has 500% more than Joe Blow, when you change the currency system Joe Shmoe will still have 500% more than Joe Blow. All you managed to do was **** both of them off.

Oh come on. That's easy to work around. Ya just don't tell people you're going to do it ahead of time.

If UO didn't shut down the next day from vets quitting overnight this is where relative value would come in, and why nothing would be changed since all you did was drop zeros. I don't see why you're not getting this.

But rest easy, Connor. Your system that you love so much, so dearly, will remain in place, problems and all.

It has nothing to do with love or hate, it has to do with the simple fact that your idea would change absolutely nothing. Not one thing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Maybe you guys still don't quite get it.
I said the entire economy changes over to the new coin. That means newbies start with 1000 platinums, and MOBs drop platinums, etc. Everything you buy or sell from a game source is in platinums. Everything changes to platinums. But gold stays in the game. You still have your gold. There are two coins in the game now. You can buy a reg for 3 platinums or for 30 gold. You can convert gold to platinums or visa versa at a bank. A new pricing structure can be placed, if they want to, to include gold in it, so a reg might sell for 2 plats and 5 gold, or for 25 gold. And MOBs might drop both coins, etc, etc.

It works, there's no holes. It devalues gold. It starts all players on the new coin system. Everybody's on the new coin system. The old gold loses value and is replaced by the platinum system. Inflation is fixed. Connor_Graham loses some of his riches and complains and leaves UO (yeah right). Connor leaves me his stuff and all is right in the world.

Edit to add: This is an example. The 10x could just as well be 5x or 20x. The Newbie starting money could be adjusted as could many prices, etc., since UO has evolved and adjusted somewhat over the years due to inflation (News originally started with 100 gold). Some research on their part would be needed to get it where they'd want it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Maybe you guys still don't quite get it.

No, it's you that doesn't get it, and it's obvious you never will.

I said the entire economy changes over to the new coin. That means newbies start with 1000 platinums, and MOBs drop platinums, etc. Everything you buy or sell from a game source is in platinums. Everything changes to platinums. But gold stays in the game. You still have your gold. There are two coins in the game now. You can buy a reg for 3 platinums or for 30 gold. You can convert gold to platinums or visa versa at a bank. A new pricing structure can be placed, if they want to, to include gold in it, so a reg might sell for 2 plats and 5 gold, or for 25 gold. And MOBs might drop both coins, etc, etc.

We get that the entire economy changes to the new coin. You don't get that all you've done is changed the number of zeros that are used. Relative value remains exactly the same.

It works, there's no holes. It devalues gold. It starts all players on the new coin system. Everybody's on the new coin system. The old gold loses value and is replaced by the platinum system. Inflation is fixed.

No, it's doesn't work, and there is a huge hole. It doesn't devalue anything, it just removes a few zeros. Gold loses no value. Inflation stays the same.

Connor_Graham loses some of his riches and complains and leaves UO (yeah right). Connor leaves me his stuff and all is right in the world.

Nope. Connor Graham still has the same relative value of his gold as he had before. Nothing changed except that a lot of people got pissed off. Connor leaves you nothing but your incomprehending thought process.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Yeah, you said all that, Connor.
Removes some zeros and players get mad, and it didn't have an affect? Right.

I hate repeating myself, but....

Because people don't have that much of this new coin. Gold has been inflated over the years through many ways. One of the biggest was dupes. Another big one was all the players who quit and left their gold to friends, thus not taking it out of the game with them. Another huge one was the scripts running the abuses and oversights like the tailors. Plus the natural build up over the years from natural means of acquiring gold. But this new coin, "platinum" or "crowns" or whatever was chosen, would not have been inflated, and the entire economy would now be based on this un-inflated new currency.

You might have billions of gold, but it can buy only 1/10th of what it used to from non-player sources. It would take time to build up this new coinage, and be devoid of the abuses from the past. If your selling something for 10 mil gold, you won't be able to sell it for 10 mil of the new coin. And you won't get away with selling it for 10x the old price in gold.

When an item sells for 1 mil gold, it's because of the inflated gold in the game. Gold is so abundant that people throw it around like it's peanuts.
The new coin in this system won't be that abundant (inflation). You won't be able to sell that same item for 1 mil of the new coin. The new coin can't be thrown around like peanuts because it's not wildly abundant (inflation) like gold has become.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yeah, you said all that, Connor.
Removes some zeros and players get mad, and it didn't have an affect? Right.

I hate repeating myself, but....



When an item sells for 1 mil gold, it's because of the inflated gold in the game. Gold is so abundant that people throw it around like it's peanuts.
The new coin in this system won't be that abundant (inflation). You won't be able to sell that same item for 1 mil of the new coin. The new coin can't be thrown around like peanuts because it's not wildly abundant (inflation) like gold has become.

I hate repeating myself as well, and since it seems that the concept of relative value is beyond you, I won't waste my time anymore. It's just a good thing that the Devs do understand it, and realize that your idea would serve no purpose at all, and so won't ever implement anything like that in the game since it would be nothing more than a waste of time that could be used on something that actually does serve some purpose, like giving us underwear dye tubs.

 

[Trebr Drab]

This isn't real life, Connor. Relative value can be changed in a game. IOn real life, when new currencies are introduced, wages don't go up to that new level and products don't change in price just because there's a new instrument added.

Here, I'm talking about doing that, which doesn't happen and can't be done in real life.

I assume you have some basic education in economics? School?

I got my securities license 25 years ago with Pruco Securities. I do know something about economics. And UO, while a simulation, is very basic. And not real life.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Actually, this would be vaguely similar to a real life situation. A revolution where a new government is formed and a totally new currency is established.

I bring you RevOLutiOn !
Burn Luna! To the ground!

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NOErZuzZpS8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NOErZuzZpS8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[UOKaiser]

This isn't real life, Connor. Relative value can be changed in a game. IOn real life, when new currencies are introduced, wages don't go up to that new level and products don't change in price just because there's a new instrument added.

Here, I'm talking about doing that, which doesn't happen and can't be done in real life.

I assume you have some basic education in economics? School?

I got my securities license 25 years ago with Pruco Securities. I do know something about economics. And UO, while a simulation, is very basic. And not real life.

The reletive value of items will not change. Real life or not this is still a UO economy. Changing government in UO means losing it's citizenship and disapearing.
Regardless as you can see in polls everyones value is mostly in itrems,properties,commodities. Those who have a billion gold actually have twice that in items. Most don't keep alot of gold with them as they spend it on value of there resources and items easily exchangeble to the new currency at reletive value. I and all others most value is in the items we hold not our spending money.