Enhancing odds aren't fair for carpenters

[georgemarvin2001]

First, let's look at an example of the actual odds of enhancing an item.

For convenience, we're assuming that after the GM exceptional roll, the beginning resists are 8 for the property that will be enhanced. The truth is that they will often be higher, so the chances of success will be correspondingly lower. The odds of success for the luck property alone are 20%, and the chances of success for each resist that is enhanced are 100 - (20 + resist before enhancing). The chance of success for lower requirements is 100 - (20 + %lower requirements/4); in this case, it's 100-27.5 = 72.5%

The odds of enhancing an item with spined leather if it has 100 luck and 10 physical resist are: .20 x .72 = 14.4% at GM, and you get a +1% bonus per 10 points over GM, which means that, if you're a legendary tailor, you have a 16.4% chance of succeeding at enhancing 100 luck armor.

The odds of enhancing a metal item with gold ingots if it has 100 luck are:
.20 x .72 x .72 x .72 x .72 x .725 = 3.9% HOWEVER, if you use a +60 ASH you get a 6% bonus to your enhancing success rate, so the odds are actually 9.9% at GM, 11.9% at legendary. That's nowhere near the success chance for leather, but it's still acceptable.

On the other hand, the odds of enhancing a wooden item with oak wood if it has 100 luck are just:
.20 x .70 x .70 x .70 x.70 = 5.3% and there is no way to increase our success chance at all, since we don't have any way of raising our skill above GM for that 2% legendary bonus.

Doesn't this seem a little unfair that us carpenter crafters only manage to successfully enhance an item less than 1/2 as often as blacksmiths and 1/3 as often as tailors?

*Hanse was the dev who released the enhancing odds to Tower of Roses a few years ago. They appear to still be accurate in real game situations; I had 143 failures for 6 successes when making a set of 140 luck wood armor.

By the way, I was forced to change my crafter to a gargoyle for the unraveling bonus; aren't gargoyles supposed to have an added bonus to enhancing, too? If they do, it must be so small that I haven't noticed it.

 

[DarkScripture]

Where did you get your formula? State the source of your sums.

Also how is carp different than say tinkering?

 

[georgemarvin2001]

As I said, Hanse posted the formulae for the Tower of Roses enhancing calculator to use several years ago. Tower of Roses is a huge UO crafting website that most UO crafters use a lot because it has a list of all of the BOD rewards on it, as well as other info; I'm not sure about the UO stratics rules about posting the URL of other websites, but it's easy enough to find.

The formulae are reprinted on here on Stratics, as well, with proper credit given to the original sources: http://uo.stratics.com/content/tools/enhancearmor.php

If you need a third source, if Cal_Mythic is reading this, he can probably verify the formulae that I used:

Each resist that will be enhanced: Failure chance is 20% + current resist
Luck: Failure chance is 30% + (luck / 2)
Lower Requirements: Failure chance is 20% + (LR / 4)
Durability: Failure chance is 20% + (durability / 40)

The failure chance is reduced by 1% for each 10 points in the corresponding crafting skill if you are over GM in skill. That means that a legendary crafter gets a 2% bonus to enhance percentages.

That also means that a + 60 ASH gives you 6% increase in the success rate for enhancing. Likewise, a 30 ASH gives a 3% chance, and a 10 or 15 ASH gives a 1% chance. The enhancing success rate is based on modified skill, not base skill.

 

[Viquire]

Can we even convert an ASH for use on a garg?

 

[Connor_Graham]

So what you're saying is we need a +60 Ancient Carpenter's Hammer to go along with the +60 Tailoring Thimble, right?

 

[Stupid Miner]

You compared a single item property, also the most worthless of them. Guess what decrease there is for the 5% HCI for heartwood armor? or the 10% DI, or the 2 HPR from blood wood? Yep, 0, it completely ignores properties that aren't in that list.

 

[WarUltima]

If anything, carpentry enhancement is easier, far safer and flat out more useful.

Try enhance a piece of ****TY leather armor and compare it to enhancing a GODLY imbued bow/bokuto. You have 300% better chance to enhance wooden items with better mods on top of their superior resist bonus than enhancing with leather or ingot. And I am I dont even think leather/ingots gives anything ultra kick ass like 10ssi OVER CAP, 10DI+5hci OVER CAP, Regenerations and so on. Heck if you dont know what you want on your wooden item you even get a material that gives random property for the fun of it.

I mean come on man. Jeez.

 

[WarUltima]

Also if wooden armor came mediable I dont think people will bother with any other armor type. (did I just find another way to buff Elves )

 

[Connor_Graham]

Try enhance a piece of ****TY leather armor and compare it to enhancing a GODLY imbued bow/bokuto.

There is no comparison. Out of 100 non runic tailor crafted armor pieces with only 100 luck imbued only 3 survived enhancement with spined leather. Out of 4 bows imbued with 5 mods, 3 survived enhancement with ash wood to make 40 SSI.

 

[Drowy]

If anything, carpentry enhancement is easier, far safer and flat out more useful.

Try enhance a piece of ****TY leather armor and compare it to enhancing a GODLY imbued bow/bokuto. You have 300% better chance to enhance wooden items with better mods on top of their superior resist bonus than enhancing with leather or ingot. And I am I dont even think leather/ingots gives anything ultra kick ass like 10ssi OVER CAP, 10DI+5hci OVER CAP, Regenerations and so on. Heck if you dont know what you want on your wooden item you even get a material that gives random property for the fun of it.

I mean come on man. Jeez.

Bowcraft/Fletching isnt Carpentry. My Gargoyle enhances about every 2nd 500% imbued Leather piece with horned leather. You should try to enhance wooden armor with heartwood or bloodwood and cry when you break 9 out of 10 pieces or more.

 

[WarUltima]

Bowcraft/Fletching isnt Carpentry. My Gargoyle enhances about every 2nd 500% imbued Leather piece with horned leather. You should try to enhance wooden armor with heartwood or bloodwood and cry when you break 9 out of 10 pieces or more.

Your info is either wrong or you have luck with RNG.
My personal experience came from enhanceing with legendary human tailor from at least 500 samples throughout the years.
You need to check out the enhancement calculator.
Even with 0 intensity enhancing with horned is no where close to 50%. Welcome to real world. rolleyes:

Base on possibility even if all items has 99% chance to break 1% chance to enhance, its still possible that you can successfully enhance them 1st try unlimited times in a roll, its just highly unlikely to be done in actual practice.

According to http://uo.stratics.com/content/tools/enhancearmor.php
Base leather armor with nothing on it what so ever has 32% chance to enhance and 32% chance to break. 32% chance to enhance is highest possible.
Now lets spread out 20 extra points in exp + arms lore assuming it adds 4/4/4/4/4 and it became 25% chance to enhance and a whooping 44% chance to break.

 

[Picus at the office]

The break rates for heart or blood are comical at best but if it was a given what would be the point? Best to try and have some limited items hard to get in this ever expanding item based game.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

1. @ Viquire: Gargoyles CAN use ASH. My gargoyle is holding a +30 ASH right now.

2. @ Connor_Graham: Bowcraft/Fletching is NOT carpentry.

3. @ Stupid Miner: Yeah, the heartwood and bloodwood carpentry enhancements do have one additional property on them. Bloodwood's HPR is 100% intensity, but the heartwood properties are mostly at 5% to 25% intensity. On the other hand, leather always has the equivalent of the very useful and valuable 140% intensity mage armor property on it by default, and it is also given a value of 0 in both enhancement and imbuing calculations. In terms of overall value, leather is still the best item to imbue and enhance most of the time, just because making wood medable costs 140 imbuing points. It also has the 2% legendary enhancement bonus advantage, as well. When the base chance is 5%, that extra 2% is a huge advantage.

4. Yeah, I agree that Blacksmithy really gets the shaft in terms of both item properties and enhancing. It isn't medable, and doesn't get another property that can be as useful as medable, 5% HCI or HPR2 if you enhance it. There is really no reason to wear blacksmith crafted valorite armor anymore; it is inferior to both leather and wood. I would really like to see Valorite armor have an enhanced value that is as good as either leather or wood.

We can blame the AOS team for making blacksmith armor really crappy; pre-AOS, it was the best armor in the game for a strong warrior with lots of dex. You had to have really high strength and dex to wear it because of the high strength requirement and the dex penalties that it cost, but it gave a lot better protection than leather, studded or chainmail. There were real trade-offs back then. You could either have medable armor OR high resists, not both. You could have high dex and lower strength, but you would have to settle for using chainmail's adequate but not great resist. And everybody had to have the magic resist skill if they wanted to minimize spell damage. Resisting spells had nothing to do with their armor. It was all pretty well balanced. The AOS crew said that they were making tailoring a more valuable skill; blacksmiths should concentrate on making weapons and leave the armor to the tailors. That monumentally stupid decision led to the awful mismatched armor that we've had to endure to this day. Warriors and archers hate having to wear that crappy looking leather and studded armor. A lot of old school mages hate having to wear armor at all. Pre-AOS, even leather armor halved their mana regen rate. A lot of the best mages either ran around naked or in tailored clothes. I've wondered many times why some of the more intelligent devs who have joined the UO team since then haven't fixed blacksmith enhancing to make valorite armor useful again.

5. @WarUltima: Yeah, you still have a lot of breakage, even with leather. But a 14.4% success rate is still a LOT better than 5.3%.