EM Events, Player Donations

[Ailish]

I got mod approval to re-open this subject in UHall for discussion. FYI the previous thread was removed to SnR due to some of the replies degenerating to rants (possibly even some of my own) so if we could try to keep this a discussion and not a rant or argument, it would be helpful.

Background: Some players, trying to support the events, made gold donations, unsolicited, for prizes for the last two EM events on Napa. The EM clearly stated that the prizes were donated, not provided by him. The prizes were in addition to the Hall Of Trophies, not in lieu of.

At the end of last nights event, moments after the prizes were given, but before we were able to go to the Hall Of Trophies for the trophy placing, Mesanna arrived and whisked the EM away to talk. Later in the evening we were advised that donations were no longer allowed.

This situation saddens us, as we did not mean to get our EM in trouble, and our only intent was to provide a little extra boost to the fun. Some people write off EM events now as being no fun with no prizes, and we had hoped to draw the people in so they could learn that the events themselves are fun (which they truly are!) There is the additional factor that the events in question happened in Fel, and making a possibility of earning back any lost insurance could help out a bit.

Many people responded last night, some with what they felt were good reasons for NOT allowing player donations, and some on the other side.

I would like to continue that discussion (in a civilized manner). What does everyone think about allowing player donations for prizes? If gold and high-end items are not acceptable, would smaller items like NPC quality items that are engraved by players be acceptable?

 

[Tom_Builder]

I got mod approval to re-open this subject in UHall for discussion. FYI the previous thread was removed to SnR due to some of the replies degenerating to rants (possibly even some of my own) so if we could try to keep this a discussion and not a rant or argument, it would be helpful.

Background: Some players, trying to support the events, made gold donations, unsolicited, for prizes for the last two EM events on Napa. The EM clearly stated that the prizes were donated, not provided by him. The prizes were in addition to the Hall Of Trophies, not in lieu of.

At the end of last nights event, moments after the prizes were given, but before we were able to go to the Hall Of Trophies for the trophy placing, Mesanna arrived and whisked the EM away to talk. Later in the evening we were advised that donations were no longer allowed.

This situation saddens us, as we did not mean to get our EM in trouble, and our only intent was to provide a little extra boost to the fun. Some people write off EM events now as being no fun with no prizes, and we had hoped to draw the people in so they could learn that the events themselves are fun (which they truly are!) There is the additional factor that the events in question happened in Fel, and making a possibility of earning back any lost insurance could help out a bit.

Many people responded last night, some with what they felt were good reasons for NOT allowing player donations, and some on the other side.

I would like to continue that discussion (in a civilized manner). What does everyone think about allowing player donations for prizes? If gold and high-end items are not acceptable, would smaller items like NPC quality items that are engraved by players be acceptable?

Why not just hand out the gifts/rewards yourself. Keep the EM out of it all together. Let everyone know that "you" will reward the winner/winners with a item. If the EM has nothing to do with it, then he/she isnt breaking any rule.

Tom

 

[sablestorm]

I agree with Tom. Perhaps we can get a clarification in an FoF or something, but I don't see any reason why the EMs can't make time for players to give away their own rewards. After all, EA let Whispering Rose Radio give away rewards at Town Halls. Why not give the players some stage time to give away gifts as well. Then the players can rightly receive the recognition for their generosity and community spirit.

One other thing I would like to point out. Are you certain you got your EM in trouble? Yes, they got whisked away, but that might be just to straighten out policy. Why do you make it out to being such a bad thing? Have you heard that they were chastised? Is their position as an EM threatened? To me, it just seems like they were pulled aside to straighten out this little matter and that's that. There's no reason to make a big deal about it. There's no reason to be saddened by it either.

 

[Ailish]

Sablestorm, you are correct, I have no idea that the EM got in trouble. It just sure felt that way when he wasnt allowed to finish off his interaction with the participants before being whisked away. I sincerely hope he didnt, but I would be surprised if he wasnt deeply embarrassed by the situation. I guess you would have had to be there to really understand what was upsetting about the situation, but I dont want to get into that part of the discussion again because it brought out too much "lively" discussion.

As for handing out reward without involving the EM ... well, I would like some clarification on that. We didnt think there was harm in the EM holding the items and assuring that they were fairly distributed, but apparently we were wrong. It probably IS an option we will look into in the future.

Now, neither of you actually stated your thoughts on it? Do you guys feel like the EM's should be allowed to use low-end donated prizes, or would rather not?

 

[It Lives]

Do you really need to have a EM to distribute" donations"?

Why not hold/run a public event on your own?

I believe the line should be drawn/ player donations to EM's need removed period.


There is all kinds of things you could do with donations that don't waste the time of the EM's.

Thing about player run events they are only limited by your imagination.

To me it sounds like you have good intentions but lack the motivation to proceed on your own....

 

[Ailish]

You are incorrect. I would much rather support the EM program, then player run events, tho I have supported those as well, with gold for prizes. Player run events are nice and all, but they have far too narrow a scope usually.

Our EM is working very hard, for the love of the game and our people, to make events for everyone. Why would I NOT want to support that?

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

...Now, neither of you actually stated your thoughts on it? Do you guys feel like the EM's should be allowed to use low-end donated prizes, or would rather not?

I have a question in return: Why would you want EM events to be subverted by players, for good or ill?

Player events and Event Moderator events differ at their core. It was always stressed to us that neutrality must be the foundation upon which a sponsored event relies. I can understand why sponsors (as well as participants!) might be confused by the introduction of private donations into a public affair. It would tend to muddy the neutral waters, no matter the original intent.

Why not host your own event, and then you may give out prizes as lavishly as you wish? No harm, no foul. Also, were it a player event, your event moderator might be invited to attend as a welcomed guest.

Putting on events is hard, difficult work. I don't think that you should attempt shortcuts by shoehorning in on someone else's groundwork and publicity. If you would truly like to help out your local Event Moderator, I think that it would be more reasonable to try and help with crowd control - or by setting a good example with tact, a sense of humor and a love of having fun.

Leave the gold well out of it.

 

[It Lives]

Then I'll go with my first thought, that your in it to curry favor in a selfish way. Who gives the most gets the good stuff.

The Players need not support the EM'S, they have a support structure in place all ready.

EM's Are in place for the players not the other way round.

 

[Thangorodrim]

They have already stated what the rules are for the EMs, why do you want to stir up problems?

The inevitable result of the incessant complaining and controversy manufacturing will be termination of the program.

At every step of the way, this iteration of the EM program has been compromised by whiners.

Let it go.

 

[Ailish]

I do see your point, Dor, and actually, I DO all the suggested things. My guild is full of Fel Rowdies, but when they attend events I am very strict about them behaving. I go about before events letting people know that they are coming up and encouraging participation. I participate, myself.

It appears you are alluding to the donors looking for acknowledgement or fame of their own by donating, but you are flat wrong about that. I would be quite happy to never be mentioned as the donor, and the same goes for my husband who also donated for an event. It actually insults me to have it insinuated otherwise (tho I am sure that being insulting was not your intent).

Lastly, I am a little confused how an attempt to SUPPORT an EM event is seen as "ah well, I am too lazy to make my own, I will just donate some prizes". Is this what you think of people who donate at charity events? That they are just too lazy to go make their own charity?

The fact is, that despite the people who decried it, most people LIKE having some sort of prize for a race or scavenger hunt. EA said that EM's could no longer make unique prizes, but NON unique prizes donated by players seemed a nice compromise.

I guess the answers from people placing untrue nefarious intentions upon our heads kinda shows how we got to this place to start with. When people try to be NICE and do GOOD they get accused of laziness and fame-mongering? Maybe I have misinterpreted what has been posted ...

They have already stated what the rules are for the EMs, why do you want to stir up problems?

I have to be honest, while it was quite clear that the EMs could no longer make unique items for prizes, I did not think that player donated prizes would be an issue. I would have never done so had I known it would be.

@ It Lives ... wow, you have an incredibly low opinion of people in general it looks like? Have you never donated something just for the pleasure of helping out?

 

[AnneNomilly]

Ailish, first, let me stress, I truly think your heart was in the right place and I'm also a huge fan and supporter of the EM Program. Nothing made me happier than when they brought it back. I met some of my very best in game friends through the EM Program long ago.

However, I don't think Player Donations, no matter how well intentioned, should be part of the EM Events. We all know the ones on our shards who will scream the loudest "X got special treatment for sucking up to the EM's". Justified or not, and most usually NOT, I really would hate to see this EM Program go the way of past ones because of shouts of favortism and witch hunts.

Yes, people should come out and support the EM's and attend the events just for the sheer fun. And many, many people do. Don't get me wrong, I like my pixel crack just as much as anyone. However, that's not why I personally attend events. I can count on two fingers the number of times I have gotten an "item" at an EM event. And those are locked down at my house where I can look at them and remember the event behind them. Yet I still keep going because I like the depth the EM's add to the game.

To my way of thinking, even player donated items just add to the people who come to events solely to see what they can get instead of for the fun of it. There's a place for both. But I don't think every EM event should have a reward other than recognition for a job well done and memories of a fun time had.

Just my two cents.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

Not nefarious.

Misguided.

It is a large mistake to foster greed at events, in my opinion. Our best events over the years have been the ones with *gasp!* NO prizes at all! I know, right? Amazingly enough, if a function is fun enough, players will enjoy it simply for the pleasureable experience that it provides. Heh...I recall one event in particular that players were still talking about years later - and nary a single gold piece was involved. *smiles*

Try it! You might like it :-D

 

[Ailish]

Try it! You might like it :-D

Actually, I have, and do. The hope was that others would be lured and find out that the events were fun just for the sake of it. Our event last night was incredibly well put together and alot of fun. The only thing that would have made it more-so was out of the EM's hands ... that is, more people competing.

At any rate, based on some of the replies here, I can truly see why they took the ability to give participation prizes away. (tho, oddly, EA obviously sees the usefulness of them as they can't seem to make their own event that DOESNT include some sort of item or prize) I am truly amazed at the number of people who think generosity is a bad thing, and that prizes are not appropriate in competitive situations

 

[Rocklin]

I have a question in return: Why would you want EM events to be subverted by players, for good or ill?

Player events and Event Moderator events differ at their core. It was always stressed to us that neutrality must be the foundation upon which a sponsored event relies. I can understand why sponsors (as well as participants!) might be confused by the introduction of private donations into a public affair. It would tend to muddy the neutral waters, no matter the original intent.

Why not host your own event, and then you may give out prizes as lavishly as you wish? No harm, no foul. Also, were it a player event, your event moderator might be invited to attend as a welcomed guest.

Putting on events is hard, difficult work. I don't think that you should attempt shortcuts by shoehorning in on someone else's groundwork and publicity. If you would truly like to help out your local Event Moderator, I think that it would be more reasonable to try and help with crowd control - or by setting a good example with tact, a sense of humor and a love of having fun.

Leave the gold well out of it.

This.

 

[Tom_Builder]

Sablestorm, you are correct, I have no idea that the EM got in trouble. It just sure felt that way when he wasnt allowed to finish off his interaction with the participants before being whisked away. I sincerely hope he didnt, but I would be surprised if he wasnt deeply embarrassed by the situation. I guess you would have had to be there to really understand what was upsetting about the situation, but I dont want to get into that part of the discussion again because it brought out too much "lively" discussion.

As for handing out reward without involving the EM ... well, I would like some clarification on that. We didnt think there was harm in the EM holding the items and assuring that they were fairly distributed, but apparently we were wrong. It probably IS an option we will look into in the future.

Now, neither of you actually stated your thoughts on it? Do you guys feel like the EM's should be allowed to use low-end donated prizes, or would rather not?

I dont care one way or the other. All the events are at time I cant play. I work graveyard, and I have yet to even see a EM. Gift, no gift. Who cares!!

 

[Ailish]

Well, Tom, what shard are you on? If you are on Napa you can look in the forums there under the thread about EM Events and find the EM's e-mail addy, where you can send him a suggestion of other times of day. I am sure other people have similar issues as you do

 

[Snakeman]

Ailish, Toms' been on Napa since I started 9+ yrs ago. He did take a little time off on us for about 2 yrs & came back playing about a yr ago. The time frames of all the events lately limits many of us to not be able to attend, which is our problem, no one elses. But personally I do think some W/end events should take place early or later afternoons so others could attend. I remember origionally it being mentioned that EM events were going to be run at 2 different time frames (a Night time & a Day Event) to accommodate conflicts people had, but this went out the window fast as usual. You know as well as I do, there are going to be complainers/whinners on anything people do to try to help & promote these EM events a little more. What your husband did I think was good & I don't see why anyone would pick it apart so badly. So someone tried to help out a little, big deal, it wasn't like you wanted anything in return. What many do not understand in this game is many of us long time players do things out of the goodness of it & to help others. Heck we been here long enough & have mostly all the junk we need, it isn't like we need more of it! Having all the Gold in the world isn't what this game was intended to be about as many young players think, it was about having fun & some interaction with your fellow players.

Hey Tom, Remember this

 

[Harlequin]

I dont care one way or the other. All the events are at time I cant play. I work graveyard, and I have yet to even see a EM. Gift, no gift. Who cares!!

I am in the same boat and understand your pain exactly

Erm, any chance of doing automated events that can run for a couple of days?

 

[Lady Aalia]

they acctually did that on Atlantic , with the valentines event...

So as Rico would say (well allmost) ...come play Atlantic ...la.


But aside from that i think the EMs are doing fine with creating their own prices and if you insist , do it like others have suggested; give them out yourself.

Running your own event is allways fun too and while it takes some organisation they are very rewarding.

I have a small guild myself so i am very limited on help , but i founded a GREAT alliance and they are wonderful when it comes to helping out.

I know the pvp crowd you may have in your Guild wont be up for it , but there is nothing wrong with taking one of your chars and putting it into a player Event oriented Guild or maybe even create one on their own.

 

[RichDC]

What events didnt have prizes??

All the major events had prizes and the mini events gave a "prize" in recognition forever, seems pretty good to me. The mini events seem to be more of a RP perspective type of event and the main events have given out items...

...

...

Why do they need financial support anyway, they can create ANYTHING they want, support them with your attendance and maybe a thank you along the way. There real people im sure they would appreciate it. If you want to give side prizes, by all means do i honestly believe if you spoke to the EM before the event they would offer you the chance.

 

[THP]

Enough of this babblecock....

I said it once...nay i said it twice...and i will say it thrice!!!!!!

Why would a EM need any kind of donation be it gold or items.....They can make dungeons at a whim... they can create anything they so wish??

Why would a EM want a donation.....Really and honestly ask yourself? why?

 

[Crysta]

Enough of this babblecock....

I said it once...nay i said it twice...and i will say it thrice!!!!!!

Why would a EM need any kind of donation be it gold or items.....They can make dungeons at a whim... they can create anything they so wish??

Why would a EM want a donation.....Really and honestly ask yourself? why?

Because they're not allowed to make ANY items to give to players now outside of what EA tells them to for the official events ONLY thanks to a loud group of whiners?

 

[RichDC]

Because they're not allowed to make ANY items to give to players now outside of what EA tells them to for the official events ONLY thanks to a loud group of whiners?

Great lakes EM's made the sash's on saturdays meet and greet. I am seriously hoping that they are re-thinking the policy, although that being said i actually think the way things are currently done is fine.

Nice items on the main events and a plaque for the mini-events, would be nice if you could get say a sash or kilt of recognition for these mini-events but to be honest im happy the way they are.

 

[Crysta]

Great lakes EM's made the sash's on saturdays meet and greet. I am seriously hoping that they are re-thinking the policy, although that being said i actually think the way things are currently done is fine.

Nice items on the main events and a plaque for the mini-events, would be nice if you could get say a sash or kilt of recognition for these mini-events but to be honest im happy the way they are.

They made the sashes because they were told they were allowed to as an official thing (because EMs have changed around a bit; new sashes have the names of all EMs on a specific shard on them), one time. The LS EMs gave them out at the Grape Harvest Festival a little over a week ago. The only choice they had in it was when they wanted to hand them out.