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EA now seriously ripping us off with the ATM

D

DGLita

Guest
I posted this on another thread but this is such a serious issue that I wanted to bring it to everyones attention.

When the ATM's were introduced the rate of exchange was 989 per $1, so you got 4945 simoleans for $5.

They have now stuck a 10% commision charge on top of this, so instead of 4945 simoleans for $5, you are now getting 4451 simoleans for $5. This is equivalent to a half a dollar they are charging for a $5 transaction. This has to be a serious concern to everyone, whether you buy or not because this clearly underlines their strategy, grab as much money from the players as you can and be damned that the game is bugged to hell.

10% commision is pretty hefty by anyones standards, and this is on their own in game currency. I wonder how they can sleep at night, I really do. How the hell can they justify this?
 
B

brendagfrie

Guest
I fear it will only get worse too...and I doubt we will ever get the option to sell them any money, especially at a fair rate.
 
I

imported_Dali Dalinza

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I posted this on another thread but this is such a serious issue that I wanted to bring it to everyones attention.

When the ATM's were introduced the rate of exchange was 989 per $1, so you got 4945 simoleans for $5.

They have now stuck a 10% commision charge on top of this, so instead of 4945 simoleans for $5, you are now getting 4451 simoleans for $5. This is equivalent to a half a dollar they are charging for a $5 transaction. This has to be a serious concern to everyone, whether you buy or not because this clearly underlines their strategy, grab as much money from the players as you can and be damned that the game is bugged to hell.

10% commision is pretty hefty by anyones standards, and this is on their own in game currency. I wonder how they can sleep at night, I really do. How the hell can they justify this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Discouraging.

Marketing geniuses they ain't.

These days it sure seems like they are trying to find out how many ways they can convey the message: "We want you to quit."
 
G

Guest

Guest
are eyes opening now? or will we stand blindly and allow the obvious to continue?
 
I

imported_Qute Pi

Guest
I wasn't aware of the exact rates and stuff, but I wanted to comment anyway.


I'm curious where the 10% simolean commission goes? To EA or to the ATM owner? Anyone know?

I can see how this is frustrating, I just can't form an opinion yet. Everything from payouts to object prices changes so much, I need to know what's set in stone before I get upset or not. lol.

Has anyone discussed this at Town Hall?
 
G

Guest

Guest
They aren't doing anything wrong by charging that fee as I'm guessing that's to cover the PayPal fees. They should have included that fee when they decided to start selling. Like when I sell on eBay, sure the buyer isn't paying my PayPal fee in addition to the selling price, but all my fees are paid by the final selling price. I can't understand why it's .50 on a $5 transaction though. Seems like it should be closer to .40?
 
G

Guest

Guest
yes thats very true , and they arent forcing you to use the atm ...
 
K

Kyub

Guest
agreed. the ATM is a poor idea for EA Land. all it looks like is a Second Life wanna be game. Get rid of the ATM!

eventually when the option becomes available, we will have greedy sims scamming others, and continuously botting, or just being completely anti social to make simoleans. why? because they're making a real life profit off of it. I don't think this game should have the ATM. let's just return the normal payouts, and have fun.
 
D

DGLita

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I wasn't aware of the exact rates and stuff, but I wanted to comment anyway.


I'm curious where the 10% simolean commission goes? To EA or to the ATM owner? Anyone know?

I can see how this is frustrating, I just can't form an opinion yet. Everything from payouts to object prices changes so much, I need to know what's set in stone before I get upset or not. lol.

Has anyone discussed this at Town Hall?

[/ QUOTE ]

We get no benefit from having an ATM on the lot, other that visitors who come to use it. The 10% charge goes directly to EA.

Yes I have no doubt they have paypal charges, but
a. they should have worked this into the exchange rate to start with
b. they no doubt have the ability to negotiate a fixed fee with Paypal, that is lower than you or i would pay.
c. This is their own in game currency they are selling, I have my own serious doubts about the so called zero sum economy which I will be taking up with them

I agree, no one has to use the ATM, but this is indicative of their overall strategy, and regard to the players
 
G

Guest

Guest
Sony charges a 10% selling fee in EQ2.

Seems logical to me... .but I may be missing something.
 
I

imported_MARCIN2006

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I posted this on another thread but this is such a serious issue that I wanted to bring it to everyones attention.

When the ATM's were introduced the rate of exchange was 989 per $1, so you got 4945 simoleans for $5.

They have now stuck a 10% commision charge on top of this, so instead of 4945 simoleans for $5, you are now getting 4451 simoleans for $5. This is equivalent to a half a dollar they are charging for a $5 transaction. This has to be a serious concern to everyone, whether you buy or not because this clearly underlines their strategy, grab as much money from the players as you can and be damned that the game is bugged to hell.

10% commision is pretty hefty by anyones standards, and this is on their own in game currency. I wonder how they can sleep at night, I really do. How the hell can they justify this?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is corporate America for you.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I'm sure at one point it was.

If people see the machines are in bugs and testing, then they shouldn't be so shocked that they are having issues. If I encountered a bug, I would report it, and hold off on using ATM's until I was told the bug was fixed.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Well one way to stop the madness is that no lot have an ATM machine. If noone uses them then what do you think would happen?
 
I

Inge Jones

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

We get no benefit from having an ATM on the lot, other that visitors who come to use it. The 10% charge goes directly to EA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think the lot owner should get at least 1%. In fact I think lot owners should have more built-in benefits, not just have to rely on tips. Why shouldn't skill lot owners for example gain a small percentage of all skill gained by visitors? And service lot owners have their motives go up as their visitors green? *Or* choose to have a ticket machine on the lot that charges the visitors simoleans - if the game sees you have a ticket machine then you don't get the skills or motive points you only get the simoleans.
 
P

PB Three

Guest
Inge, I believe I know exactly where you got your idea for the "Ticket Machine": TS2 OFB.

Anyway, I really like that idea. Hadn't thought of that.

Yet another idea from your creative mind.



PB Three
 
I

imported_DutchAmerica

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

yes thats very true , and they arent forcing you to use the atm ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I just say....."Ha Ha Ha"? If they want 'convenience', they'll be paying dearly for it.

Like you said, no one is forcing them to whip out those credit cards. They could make their simoleans the old fashioned way like the rest of us.....

Or they could take their chances in the back alleys with the private simoleans sellers. Maybe the money will make it into your sim's pocket....maybe it won't. Maybe it'll be today or tomorrow or over the weekend.

All I can say is.....keep those credit cards a hummin' folks cause I like hearing TSO's Ka-Ching!!
 
I

Inge Jones

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

They could make their simoleans the old fashioned way like the rest of us.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this isn't going to turn into an "us and them" situation. When I was playing Second Life, you could have free accounts or subscriber accounts. Only subscriber accounts could own land on the mainland. I quickly made a few friends (or so I thought), and I also subbed and bought a home. When I mentioned to these friends I had bought some land they said "Oh I see you're one of those" and ditched me (they were obviously free accounts with attitude). This is something TSO hasn't had to deal with so far.
 
N

NightFlyer

Guest
TSO has always had to deal with the "us and them" to some degree regarding simoleon buyers.
 
I

Inge Jones

Guest
So am I likely to come under peer pressure *not* to use ATMs?
 
N

NightFlyer

Guest
I wouldn't go so far as to say you would come under peer pressure.

It's just some of us play the game without buying money and never will.

Some have always purchased simoleons to get where they want to be.

It's a matter of how you choose to play the game.
 
I

imported_DutchAmerica

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

So am I likely to come under peer pressure *not* to use ATMs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw...personally I could care less if you guys want to buy simoleans.

I just think it's a bit funny that you folks are complaining about paypal. Because as far as I can remember, paypal almost always charges a fee to use it's services.

I figure it may cost a little more to buy through EA....but then again you are also paying for the security of knowing that you'll get what you bought. Ask yourself something? Who would you rather have know your credit card info? Paypal or some guy sitting in his roach infested apartment in Miami with nothing on but his boxers, a musty old stoggie and a can of beer?

There will be many scammers hanging out in EAland as always I'm sure. They will offer to sell folks a bunch of simoleans for seemingly nothing and then folks will come here and complain they got scammed.

Pros and cons folks......
 
I

Inge Jones

Guest
Well I wasn't complaining about paypal fees. I did point out that it seemed clunky to have the commission for buying simoleans *as well as* a different buy and sell rate.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Why shouldn't skill lot owners for example gain a small percentage of all skill gained by visitors?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm.... not sure how that could be worked out, but I like the sound of it.

The others aren't bad either.
I would suggest you flesh those ideas out a bit and post them on the blog.
 
I

imported_SimTripps

Guest
True - it is indeed a matter of how we choose to play our game.. Funny thing is - the whole idea of ATMs in the game is not exactly conducive to the so-called Social Market Economy philosophy now, is it?

The following is from the Wiki:

<blockquote><hr>

What is truly wrong with our current TSO economy is that the middle class has been eliminated. Ironic, that's what's wrong with the United States economy. In this virtual world there is either the have's or the have not's.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, does that mean that we should be living like post-Revolutionary Bolshevik Dr. Zhivago sims? No thanks lol...

Here's an example of why the concept of ATMs is counter-theoretic:

Say I could afford to plug $1,000 of my hard earned money into an ATM to purchase simoleans, but another sim can't afford or chooses to earn their living the 'hard' way... we'll still have a division in the sim social classes, regardless of what seemingly equitable economic system is in place... And since I gave my money to EA, well then... Well then what? Then this makes it o.k.? I don't think so lol..

The economy was FINE before. The problem was with EXPLOITS, not the economy - especially that exploit that happened in 2006 where people were making billions - it wasn't the economical structure and payouts, it was a bug for Pete's sake. And now we're paying big for something that should have been fixed alot quicker than it was. It's not our fault, it's theirs... That bug was festering around for awhile, and everybody knew what was going on, but the staff did nothing about it until it was too late...

What should be happening is an improved system of bot policing, and diligence on the part of the team to fix money bugs before they get out of hand, and NOT an economy fix... Don't fix what wasn't broken in the first place...





Edited to fix typo
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

figure it may cost a little more to buy through EA....but then again you are also paying for the security of knowing that you'll get what you bought.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hear ya.
OTOH - recent glitches regarding the mugging of players leaves me....... disinclined..... to trust EA in money matters, at the present time.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Virtual mugging ROFL!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
BTW - I wouldn't want to be EA the first time some player bought simoleons from the ATM - then got mugged on the way home.
 
S

Snitch

Guest
I've delt with the likes of this before, charging a service fee or a paypal charge is the most rookie thing to do in the world, charging the consumer a fee for payment accepting is totally appauling and is (in all businesses) the cost of doing business. Maybe EA is paying to much for their simoleans, I know a few places cheaper!
 
M

mysticlisa516

Guest
Most everyone knows that Paypal charges a fee to the seller for sales. But, to make the consumer pay this fee is apprehensible. I never charge customers paypal fees when I sell online. It's just what I need to think about before settling on a price in the beginning.

Now what EA should have done is charge, for example, $1.05 per 989 simoleans. This way the fee was put in the sale price for what the consumer was getting, and EA would have their fees paid, instead of deducting the amount of simoleans that the consumer finally gets.

JMO
 
G

Guest

Guest
NOIP
Every retailer has, does, and will charge the customer to cover his various expenses. The difference is that this 'overhead' is figured into the final retail price. To set it aside as a seperate charge in addition to the selling price, is kinda "in your face", and many customers see it as an insult. So, why do it when you can just imbed it in the price and have it accepted without a squawk?
 
N

nobuttkisser

Guest
<font color="red"> I posted this on another thread but this is such a serious issue that I wanted to bring it to everyones attention.

When the ATM's were introduced the rate of exchange was 989 per $1, so you got 4945 simoleans for $5.

They have now stuck a 10% commision charge on top of this, so instead of 4945 simoleans for $5, you are now getting 4451 simoleans for $5. This is equivalent to a half a dollar they are charging for a $5 transaction. This has to be a serious concern to everyone, whether you buy or not because this clearly underlines their strategy, grab as much money from the players as you can and be damned that the game is bugged to hell.

10% commision is pretty hefty by anyones standards, and this is on their own in game currency. I wonder how they can sleep at night, I really do. How the hell can they justify this?
</font>

Now THIS is interesting.... we hear how people gripe when they feel that they are being "ripped" off. But when it comes to overcharging sim for things like pet pulls, fruit from trees that they didn't own in the first place, or botting everyone wants it to be kept silent. interesting indeed.....
 
I

imported_SimTripps

Guest
Exactly - they should've done it without a squawk... - not separated the charge, but should have just assumed it in with the original fee. Considering they're profiting regardless on a virtual (non-existent) product without any overhead whatsoever.. Overhead? Who said that?? What overhead is there in a virtual in-game product?? What, so Luc and the boys can buy an extra Double Mochachino Latte while they're coding our fate? That's about the only overhead I could see being in existence... Sorry I couldn't resist - it sounded way too funny so had to add it rofl...
 
I

imported_DutchAmerica

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Exactly - they should've done it without a squawk... - not separated the charge, but should have just assumed it in with the original fee. Considering they're profiting regardless on a virtual (non-existent) product without any overhead whatsoever.. Overhead? Who said that?? What overhead is there in a virtual in-game product?? What, so Luc and the boys can buy an extra Double Mochachino Latte while they're coding our fate? That's about the only overhead I could see being in existence... Sorry I couldn't resist - it sounded way too funny so had to add it rofl...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the 'connection' from the TSO ATM machine and Paypal hasn't come at 'no cost' to EA.

However, maybe EA needs to reconsider how they deal with the additional fees attached to the ATM machines. Instead of taking a commission, just right up front place a 'standard' fee for using it, kinda like what we do at atm machines now.

Make it like the real ATM machine...a standard base fee of $1.00 per transaction.
 
I

imported_SimTripps

Guest
Sure EA has to fork out Paypal fees, and Paypal must be lovin' them for this lot lol.. but the whole idea of an ATM in the game is evil to begin with, and the concept of Cash-in is just EA profiteering off us from an in-game necessity...










fixed a typo
 
L

Laverne

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Sure EA has to fork out Paypal fees, and Paypal must be lovin' them for this lot lol.. but the whole idea of an ATM in the game is evil to begin with, and the concept of Cash-in is just EA profiteering off us from an in-game necessity...

[/ QUOTE ]



Simtripps,

I have to agree with you. My respect for EA Games (the company) hit a new low the minute the ATM machines arrived.
 
I

Inge Jones

Guest
I don't think paypal charges a percentage though - isn't it a flat fee per transaction?
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

They aren't doing anything wrong by charging that fee as I'm guessing that's to cover the PayPal fees. They should have included that fee when they decided to start selling. Like when I sell on eBay, sure the buyer isn't paying my PayPal fee in addition to the selling price, but all my fees are paid by the final selling price. I can't understand why it's .50 on a $5 transaction though. Seems like it should be closer to .40?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that was my initial thought too, that the fees can be justified because PayPal is charging EA, and it's S.O.P. for an online retailer to trickle down those fees to the person buying the product they selll. EA is barely keeping TSO afloat, so if paying those 10% fees if/when I want the simoleans without working for them means they are out less money, I'm all for it....as will be the attitude of alot of the others who truly don't want to see the game close.

No, I don't think they are saying "I want you to quit" I think it's more like "How *much* do you WANT this game to stay open, and are you willing to help make it happen?"
 
M

mysticlisa516

Guest
no,,if i have a sale for $5.00 the fee is $.45. If i have a sale for $10.00 the fee is $.59. It's based on percentage, which is what EA should have considered before giving less simoleans than what was actually bought.

I have sold and bought thru paypal for years. They have always charged a fee to the seller. I'm just saying that EA should have added this to the price instead of deducting from the simoleans bought.
 
I

imported_DutchAmerica

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Sure EA has to fork out Paypal fees, and Paypal must be lovin' them for this lot lol.. but the whole idea of an ATM in the game is evil to begin with, and the concept of Cash-in is just EA profiteering off us from an in-game necessity...
fixed a typo

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it an 'in-game necessity'?

Seems to me it's not necessary to purchase simoleans and thus EA is making a profit by allowing players the luxury of buying their simoleans as opposed to actually making in-game?
 
I

imported_Dali Dalinza

Guest
Just replying to an earlier post you made, Dutch, suggesting that EA simolean sales are more secure because EA uses Paypal and the trailer trash seller in Miami does not. I think that is a gross exaggeration, and one EA
would love to know you are promoting, but it isn't accurate. Like any business, simolean sellers thrive on repeat customers. If you screw a customer, they don't come back and they tell their friends.

I believe the majority of simolean sellers utilize Paypal.

As do bot sellers, clothing patch sellers, etc.

Scammers are around, for sure, but they are small potatoes. Big business (and game sales are big) are just as sophisticated and secure as EA.

EA surely wants to make simolean sales profitable. At the same time, they will be competing with sellers who have every reason to make better offers. If players think EA is ripping them off, that only makes non-EA sellers more attractive. For better or worse.
 
L

Laverne

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Seems to me it's not necessary to purchase simoleans and thus EA is making a profit by allowing players the luxury of buying their simoleans as opposed to actually making in-game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy simoleans but I seriously doubt EA games are offering this as a "luxury". I'm all for free market and capitalism and support any company who tries to make a profit.

This game, however, is one of their products. People play to escape rl BS. Lot's of people play to meet the challenge of bettering their sim by climbing the ladder to success. How does zipping over to the EA ATM to buy simoleans when you run low any form of game playing?

If EA wants to offer an opportunity for those sims who can't seem to make it on their own, why not create EA Banks and loan simoleans that would have to eventually be paid back?

Now that would be far more challenging than being able to go buy simoleans from an endless source.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not going to touch on the issue that the ATMs were placed at the same time payouts were drastically reduced. Too soon to make a judgment like that but it sure didn't look good and hurt EA Games credibility.

An "official" EA bank that made loans (where no rl money was required) would have a wonderful aspect to the game.

I'm no techy so I have no idea how complicated it would be nor am I an economical geniuous. I just think the only involvement EA should have in the exchange of rl money is when they collect our monthly subscriptions.

Just my opinion.
 
I

imported_DutchAmerica

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Just replying to an earlier post you made, Dutch, suggesting that EA simolean sales are more secure because EA uses Paypal and the trailer trash seller in Miami does not. I think that is a gross exaggeration, and one EA
would love to know you are promoting, but it isn't accurate. Like any business, simolean sellers thrive on repeat customers. If you screw a customer, they don't come back and they tell their friends.

I believe the majority of simolean sellers utilize Paypal.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't know about the 'majority' utilizing Paypal.

I think my point flew right over your head.

The point is....until someone is scammed or until a scam is exposed...players really do NOT have any idea who they are attempting to buy virtual items from.

And I have to wonder how many players were scammed that never admitted it?

Up until just a few short month ago, we weren't even allowed to SAY that you could buy simoleans. I have to wonder how many people got scammed and never said anything because it wasn't a subject that was allowed to be talked about here.....the buying of virtual goods.

And you must also remember that there are many players that don't or absolutely won't post here.

There are so many ways people can and will allow themselves to be scammed. By going directly to EA to purchase simoleans, it takes the 'guess' work out of it.

That's all I'm saying...

I seriously doubt if Simstratics is going to allow us to set up a 'Sims Better Business Bureau' to 'airout' disputes between sims and simolean dealers so that we can have a better idea who is on the up and up and who isn't.

(Actually...don't know why the 'picture' of a sleeze ball stealing credit card info would bother you so much. It's an example of that fact that we have NO idea who we are dealing with when we interact with people online. As for my little 'depiction'....EA might actually like that little promo idea.
Why don't you report me depicting scammers as being stinky trailor trash....it would really hurt my feelings a lot...btw...you are the one who said trailor trash...
)
 
I

imported_SimTripps

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Sure EA has to fork out Paypal fees, and Paypal must be lovin' them for this lot lol.. but the whole idea of an ATM in the game is evil to begin with, and the concept of Cash-in is just EA profiteering off us from an in-game necessity...
fixed a typo

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it an 'in-game necessity'?

Seems to me it's not necessary to purchase simoleans and thus EA is making a profit by allowing players the luxury of buying their simoleans as opposed to actually making in-game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry hun - it's simoleans that are an in-game necessity, and you can't get too far without them...
 
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