dismounting thoughts

[RawHeadRex]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter but I have questions.
Should dismount special be automatic or more like a critical hit requiring a roll/check ?When an archer is on foot trying to shoot at their target on horse to dismount, they are naturally aiming for center mass as it is (while leading)in order to increase shot percentage. what special magic is automatically causing dismount ? imho it should be more like 30-40-50% chance to dismount with a 10-15-25% hit to shooters hci. It would be harder to hit but when it did, chances of dismount are high. Like disarm for example(not automatic), that's pure technique of warrior combined with design of weapon in order to accomplish result. A heavy xbow etc hits hard no matter if on foot or on a mount, but to dismount 100% of the time while on foot ? If being planted on ground creates harder dismounting shots, then all shots on foot by xbow should auto dismount, no special required. Seems odd to me, am I just nuts and missing something to the equation ?
And another thing ! ANY sword can dismount a rider in real life, how many horses go down due to foot soldiers slicing at the horses legs ? What, I need some special sword in order to do that, really ?

 

[Yen Sid]

No offense really, but, this is a game. We have Balrons and Dragons and Demons and... well, you get it .

 

[Old Man of UO]

... And another thing ! ANY sword can dismount a rider in real life, how many horses go down due to foot soldiers slicing at the horses legs ? ...

Here's the problem... you are trying to interject real life into a fantasy game. You should use one to justify actions in the other.

In RL, it didn't take a dozen hits from an archer to kill a man, even armored.

In RL, VERY FEW archers were mounted, which took a lot of training to be as effective as slower foot archers who did not wear armor.

In RL, mounts were targeted by an archer to dismount a rider, rather than aiming for the rider.

In RL, most archers did not wear armor or at least heavy armor because it interfered with their shot. Cavalry on the other hand could and did wear heavy armor.

In RL, although a sword could be used to cut the legs out of a mount, pole arms were used to pull riders off horses, or even a staff was thrust between the legs to trip a mount. And it did take a special sword to survive the impact with a mounts armored legs.... look up thrusting versus cutting swords (and pole arms too, for that matter).

In RL, the mounts did not get back up. Sometimes neither did the rider.

 

[Stupid Miner]

When an archer is on foot trying to shoot at their target on horse to dismount, they are naturally aiming for center mass as it is (while leading)in order to increase shot percentage. what special magic is automatically causing dismount ?

Shooting at the head would be most likely to topple them.

A heavy xbow etc hits hard no matter if on foot or on a mount, but to dismount 100% of the time while on foot ? If being planted on ground creates harder dismounting shots, then all shots on foot by xbow should auto dismount, no special required.

Shooting on foot gives a much more precise shot, if mounted you've got the up/down motion of the galloping horse, and the velocity of the horse to take into account, which is much more likely to result in a glancing blow. Bolts wont shoot in a straight line, but rather shoot in a straight line relative to the velocity of the horse.

To use unrealistic numbers for the purposes of illustration.
If the horse is going 10 mph west and the bolt is shot at 10 mph north, it's actually going 10 mph North West. From the perspective of the Rider, it looks like it's going straight, but that's because he's still going 10 mph West.
For a stationary observer it'd be obviously traveling at a 45 degree angle.

And another thing ! ANY sword can dismount a rider in real life, how many horses go down due to foot soldiers slicing at the horses legs ? What, I need some special sword in order to do that, really ?

You could probably preform most of the weapon specials with most of the weapon types, but then weapon types wouldn't have a good variety and it'd all reduce to damage over time.
And that's boring.

 

[Kiminality]

...it's actually going 10 mph North West...

Actually more like 14mph NW

 

[wee papa smurf]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter but I have questions.
Should dismount special be automatic or more like a critical hit requiring a roll/check ?When an archer is on foot trying to shoot at their target on horse to dismount, they are naturally aiming for center mass as it is (while leading)in order to increase shot percentage. what special magic is automatically causing dismount ? imho it should be more like 30-40-50% chance to dismount with a 10-15-25% hit to shooters hci. It would be harder to hit but when it did, chances of dismount are high. Like disarm for example(not automatic), that's pure technique of warrior combined with design of weapon in order to accomplish result. A heavy xbow etc hits hard no matter if on foot or on a mount, but to dismount 100% of the time while on foot ? If being planted on ground creates harder dismounting shots, then all shots on foot by xbow should auto dismount, no special required. Seems odd to me, am I just nuts and missing something to the equation ?
And another thing ! ANY sword can dismount a rider in real life, how many horses go down due to foot soldiers slicing at the horses legs ? What, I need some special sword in order to do that, really ?

You need to get dci? I've yet to meet any good mage or dexxer that i can hit 100% of the time

 

[RawHeadRex]

Old Man of UO;1758640]Here's the problem... you are trying to interject real life into a fantasy game. You should use one to justify actions in the other.

In RL, it didn't take a dozen hits from an archer to kill a man, even armored.

-exactly, sometimes it takes one, sometimes it takes seven.

In RL, VERY FEW archers were mounted, which took a lot of training to be as effective as slower foot archers who did not wear armor.

-the Asian culture has been excelling at mounted archers for centuries.

In RL, mounts were targeted by an archer to dismount a rider, rather than aiming for the rider.

-exactly

In RL, most archers did not wear armor or at least heavy armor because it interfered with their shot. Cavalry on the other hand could and did wear heavy armor.

depends on which culture of archers you are talking about. European longbows etc wore very little if any, but the Asian bow culture wore heavy armor that was designed to move with the archers movements.

In RL, although a sword could be used to cut the legs out of a mount, pole arms were used to pull riders off horses, or even a staff was thrust between the legs to trip a mount. And it did take a special sword to survive the impact with a mounts armored legs.... look up thrusting versus cutting swords (and pole arms too, for that matter).

-right, but in this game... both parties need pole arms for that to work. odd to say the least.

In RL, the mounts did not get back up. Sometimes neither did the rider.

-arguable.

 

[Old Man of UO]

... Should dismount special be automatic or more like a critical hit requiring a roll/check ?...

Just saying, you had a good question but lost it when you tried to interject real life. I think there should be a skill check (well, there is for the Tactics skill) and it shouldn't be 100% successful. Try arguing on that basis because I do think you may have a valid point.

 

[RawHeadRex]

Shooting at the head would be most likely to topple them.

Shooting on foot gives a much more precise shot, if mounted you've got the up/down motion of the galloping horse, and the velocity of the horse to take into account, which is much more likely to result in a glancing blow. Bolts wont shoot in a straight line, but rather shoot in a straight line relative to the velocity of the horse.

To use unrealistic numbers for the purposes of illustration.
If the horse is going 10 mph west and the bolt is shot at 10 mph north, it's actually going 10 mph North West. From the perspective of the Rider, it looks like it's going straight, but that's because he's still going 10 mph West.
For a stationary observer it'd be obviously traveling at a 45 degree angle.


You could probably preform most of the weapon specials with most of the weapon types, but then weapon types wouldn't have a good variety and it'd all reduce to damage over time.
And that's boring.

-lol shooting in the head would be a critical shot and kill them, at the very least prevent them from fighting back at all.

-up and down , left to right does not factor... if the shooter is riding and his bolt does happen to hit you, the impact force will still be that of a footed archer. "Precision" as you say is aiming, the force delivered by the bolt will be identical regardless if you hit on purpose or on complete accident.

- If target is standing and not moving anywhere in that 180 degree field in front of you, the added velocity of the horse will add to the velocity of the bolt. If target is moving away in front of you as you chase, the horse velocity will compensate for them moving away from you and the bolt will hit just as hard as if both are standing still.

 

[RawHeadRex]

Actually more like 14mph NW

ding

 

[RawHeadRex]

Just saying, you had a good question but lost it when you tried to interject real life. I think there should be a skill check (well, there is for the Tactics skill) and it shouldn't be 100% successful. Try arguing on that basis because I do think you may have a valid point.

but real life physics does carry over into the game to determine various game mechanics.

 

[RawHeadRex]

You need to get dci? I've yet to meet any good mage or dexxer that i can hit 100% of the time

my mage has legendary wrestling and 70 dci when pvping. composite etc moving shots seem to check the dci and miss sometimes. But a footed dismounter seems to work automatically to me, I'm going to test this out some more.

 

[Stupid Miner]

...it's actually going 10 mph North West...

Actually more like 14mph NW

Yea, I knew I was gonna be wrong on that... never did so well with projections of lines and junk

 

[Old Man of UO]

...it's actually going 10 mph North West...

Actually more like 14mph NW

Yea, I knew I was gonna be wrong on that... never did so well with projections of lines and junk

And you probably said in Geometry class that you would never need to know Pythagorean's theorem.

 

[Stupid Miner]

-up and down , left to right does not factor... if the shooter is riding and his bolt does happen to hit you, the impact force will still be that of a footed archer. "Precision" as you say is aiming, the force delivered by the bolt will be identical regardless if you hit on purpose or on complete accident.

Difference between a glancing blow and a solidly connecting hit.

lol shooting in the head would be a critical shot and kill them, at the very least prevent them from fighting back at all.

You're very right. But that would make the game kinda boring wouldn't it?
Which in the end is all that matters for a game.

- If target is standing and not moving anywhere in that 180 degree field in front of you, the added velocity of the horse will add to the velocity of the bolt. If target is moving away in front of you as you chase, the horse velocity will compensate for them moving away from you and the bolt will hit just as hard as if both are standing still.

And if you're on foot being charged his velocity is added to the bolt speed.
Resulting in a harder, but less likely to dismount hit, since his momentum vastly overtakes the bolt's. Especially if he's leaning more forward than back.

And if he's fleeing the bolt's velocity is added to his velocity.
More likely to topple him, but a lighter hit overall. Especially, again, if he was leaning forward.

The problem with all that is... what did either of those positions, both yours and mine have to do with anything?
Was never arguing about the effects of the differences in velocity between being on foot or on mount to begin with.