Discussion of the success (or lack thereof) of non-PoF-able items

[GalenKnighthawke]

Hello everyone.

With the introduction of Replicas, the team's intent seems to have been to create useful items, higher-end for which there could be an eternal market, because they would eventually wear out and need to be replaced. (Other non-PoF-able items, such as The Redeemer, the Virtue Artifacts, and the Faction Artifacts, are special cases with different intentions.)

Not all Replicas are equally useful or desirable of course, but the point is that the category contains items that are of great use.

I thought it might be useful to the team if we discussed whether or not this strategy has been successful, as it is an important test for Imbuing. (Imbued items will also be non-PoF-able.)

My feeling is that, thus far, the strategy seems to have been a rousing success. The items are in pretty-wide use. The less useful Replicas sell for a bit, the more useful Replicas sell for a lot. The way to get Replicas, champ spawns, are lively elements of the game, on LS anyway. A little community has emerged who do work the Ilshenar spawns pretty consistently. It isn't constant activity, but there's pretty good odds of finding a spawn to jump into.

I personally won't touch a non-PoF-able item; I prefer to wallow in comparative mediocrity, with the trade-off that I'll only need to update my suit when I really want to. I know of other players who think similarly to me. But I certainly make good money hunting and selling Replicas, and the items are surely in use by other players, or I wouldn't have anyone to sell to!!

I had personally not expected this; I was kinda worried that others would be like me and would not want to touch a non-PoF-able item. However, the flexibility and additional properties they afford seems to be worth the trade-off to many players.

I suggest that, in my experience, the Replicas have been a success and this success bodes well for Imbuing.



-Galen's player

 

[Fink]

I think the system has proven itself and I'd be happy to see it applied across all items, provided all were somewhat available (thinking mainly of ToT here). Once Imbuing is in practice I think we'll see even more acceptance of non-PoF items. I'm hoping Imbuing applies to all crafts eventually, such as inscription and so forth.

 

[WootSauce]

"The items are in pretty-wide use. The less useful Replicas sell for a bit, the more useful Replicas sell for a lot."

The devil is in the details here...

The "more useful" relicas that you refer to that sell for a lot are items (LT Sash, Ari Robe) that have no other comparable item in game that can fit those slots and give mods.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

I don't really have an opinion formed yet, but a few points to ponder:

Melee fighters damage equipment much, much faster then summoners/tamers. Archers also get let off somewhat.

For example, I might repair my tamers' gear every few months, maybe, if that. His armor has only been PoF'd once (though with enough charges to get most segments to around 200 points worth). It's doubtful I'll ever need to PoF it again.

Replicas can be replaced; if one wears out you can always get another of the same type. Not quite so true for runic crafted gear.

I think the "keep on getting new armor" idea will take on more ground as more items get introduced into the game. It'll be interesting to see whether the SA artis are PoF'able.

Many people might say "well if they aren't I just won't use them", but let's face it, so long as they're powerful enough, they'll be popular. I mean, it's not like "self repair" is the most coverted property in the game...

 

[Harlequin]

Overall, I feel it's a good system.

As long as it only applies to items that can be replaced by the same exact version. eg Replicas and Arties with set stats that once broken, you can go farm an exact copy of that item with the same exact stats.

Similarly, it should work well with imbuing as too. Since you can replace it by re-creating an exact copy of the item with the same exact stats. It's also one of the ways imbued items are further balanced to prevent them from being overpowered.

Hopefully gives a bit more life to the crafting class again. This should also encourage people to try out different playstyles like PvP. They no longer need to worry about loosing their 1 in a million runic PvP weapon that cost them 100 mil.

Things that are not easily replace-able should be Pof-able. Like runic crafted items and magic loot where the stats are randomly generated. It's unlikely that players can ever get the same exact 5 properties at the same intensities even if they spend years farming, or working bods to get the runics.

And things from 1 time events, like the Redeemer should be Pof-able. Or it's just gonna sit unused.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I think the system has proven itself and I'd be happy to see it applied across all items, provided all were somewhat available (thinking mainly of ToT here). Once Imbuing is in practice I think we'll see even more acceptance of non-PoF items. I'm hoping Imbuing applies to all crafts eventually, such as inscription and so forth.

UO is far more item-based than it was, and to subject an item to permanent loss would be tantamount to subjecting a skill to permanent loss under the old system.

The beauty of a system where both kinds of items (permanent and non-permanent) are in use is that players can choose for themselves what approach they want to take. That's one of the reasons why I think Imbuing will be a success despite the fact that I have no plans to ever use an Imbued item.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

"The items are in pretty-wide use. The less useful Replicas sell for a bit, the more useful Replicas sell for a lot."

The devil is in the details here...

The "more useful" relicas that you refer to that sell for a lot are items (LT Sash, Ari Robe) that have no other comparable item in game that can fit those slots and give mods.

This is 100% true.

However, it is also true that other Replicas are still in use and will sell. By far not as well or for as much, admittedly.

-Galen's player

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Oh, another point: So long as an item's durability doesn't fall below a certain percentage of the max, a decent crafter won't lower said max while repairing.

That is to say, so long as you repair your items often, you won't ever need to use PoF.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I mean, it's not like "self repair" is the most coverted property in the game...

Self Repair of at least 4 is a must for my fencer's shield. Anything less just does not cut the mustard as much as that shield takes a beating.

Will the property Self Repair be part of Imbuing? / Should it be?

Personnally I have not used any non-fortifiable items, but that's just because what I have works well enough for me.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Barry Gibb]

And things from 1 time events, like the Redeemer should be Pof-able. Or it's just gonna sit unused.

The Redeemer sits because it is slow and its damage increases have very circumstatial usage. I agree that one-time event items should be fortifiable, so I can use them later when the need arises.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Warpig Inc]

Will the property Self Repair be part of Imbuing? / Should it be?

Any item that is imbueded will have the Self Repair removed from the item. Self Repair is not an option to be imbueded on an item. Just have to powder up an item before imbueding used on it. See the price going sky high on PF.

Another property that could stand for more use is cursed items. Whole unique line of items in the paragon drop would work. Even 1 in 4 of the Doom drops having the cursed property could add value back to them. And new life to the Doom loop could have 1 in 100 drops could have the bless property with timer charge. The timer extended like the communication crystals with gem burning or the bless is lost. Even the mined gems could be used as charging instead to bring their value about.

 

[Tina Small]

I haven't been able to get very interested in doing champ spawns for the replicas. Been too busy building characters on new shards, I guess. In any event, the replicas that are for sale are so far out of my reach in terms of cost that I haven't even bothered keeping track of what's available.

I hunt fairly often in the legacy dungeons, but for some reason fail to get many of the 10th anniversary items, including the virtue armor. Still have yet to get a complete set on any shard and I refuse to buy the pieces from someone else. Someday maybe I'll have a full set. When I do, I hope it was worth the wait and lasts a while for one of my dexxers.... I think I got three or four of the Sorcerer's Suits last summer. I loaned out one to a guildmate and put one on a tamer I rarely play. I think the other two are in boxes somewhere. Same goes for the two or three other Spring Cleaning suits I got..they're sitting in boxes somewhere, unused.

I don't own even one faction arty, mostly on principle. I have enough silver to buy them, but I guess I'm boycotting them. Don't really need them for my tamers or thieves, although my archers probably could use a few of them to spiff up their suits. However, the whole concept of introducing them as a lure to drag people into factions left such a sour taste in my mouth, I want nothing to do with them. As far as I'm concerned, adding them ruined factions because many people seem to have only joined factions to get the artifacts to use outside of Fel. I know most won't agree with me, but that's just the way I feel about it from playing in factions both before and after they were added.

At this point, I'm content with the suits I can build out of normal armor and the regular old artifacts. I like knowing that once I get a character's suit in good shape, it can stay as is for the most part, unless I come across something else that is a better fit and as long as I keep everything repaired and powdered. I've got far too many characters to keep track of and just play with to have to spend a lot of time wondering whose suit is getting ready to fall into pieces and will need to be replaced. If I was content to just stick to one shard and a handful of characters, I might feel differently about it. But I guess I like building up and playing characters in far flung places, even if they look like gypsies and hobos most of the time. As long as their skills and their gear are good enough to explore most of the worlds they live in, that's usually enough to satisfy me.

 

[Fink]

I think the system has proven itself and I'd be happy to see it applied across all named items, provided all were somewhat available (thinking mainly of ToT here). Once Imbuing is in practice I think we'll see even more acceptance of non-PoF items. I'm hoping Imbuing applies to all crafts eventually, such as inscription and so forth.

UO is far more item-based than it was, and to subject an item to permanent loss would be tantamount to subjecting a skill to permanent loss under the old system.

The beauty of a system where both kinds of items (permanent and non-permanent) are in use is that players can choose for themselves what approach they want to take. That's one of the reasons why I think Imbuing will be a success despite the fact that I have no plans to ever use an Imbued item.

-Galen's player

Fixed, was misleading.

I meant arties, marties, et al, basically anything named that can be attained by players (hence the ToT reference). As for crafted I'd like the option of Imbuing on all crafts. I think the choice of permanent vs non-permanent can and should be left up to the individual.

 

[gunneroforgin]

Fixed, was misleading.

I meant arties, marties, et al, basically anything named that can be attained by players (hence the ToT reference). As for crafted I'd like the option of Imbuing on all crafts. I think the choice of permanent vs non-permanent can and should be left up to the individual.

Instead of imbuing, I would prefer to see all crafting be similar in use. I like that when you use wood to enhance an item you know what properties you can add to the item, I would like blacksmithing and tailoring to be revised to have simlar properties.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Oh, another point: So long as an item's durability doesn't fall below a certain percentage of the max, a decent crafter won't lower said max while repairing.

This is not accurate. You have a better chance of not losing any durability if the item is repaired within 20% of it's max, but it is certainly possible, and even probable, that you will lose that point.

 

[Vandetta]

from what i have found on pac is that there are more spawns being done in fel which in turn leads to more fights... leaving me happy...

hugs?

 

[MalagAste]

As for myself..... I really don't care one way or another that you can't powder them ..... and eventually they will break.

I know that I myself am not going to go out and spend 20 million or more on a disposable item that will break and be gone forever.... and to spend more than that is beyond my comprehension.... I suppose some folk have loads of money to burn.... and perhaps they plan on using those things to bank sit and look all special or important.... but to use them for actual use after spending that kind of gold on them seems well.... a waste....

I figure if I get one... great! Awesome for me.... if I don't... Oh well... won't be spending my gold or certainly not any RL money on that stuff. But whatever float's your boat I guess.

 

[Harlequin]

20 mil is closer to I expect to pay for the current 100 mil uber runics

I am guessing imbued items will likely cost less. But I'd still craft my own imbues, besides, it'll be like recycling stuff in the game hehe

 

[Arrgh]

I suppose it's an excellent gold sink for those who are filthy rich and can spare the "pocket change". Congrats to people who have luck getting the items, I have done many champs now and haven't even gotten an SoT let alone an artifact although I am doing quite a bit of damage per level. If ya got the gps go for the gusto, I don't have the gps though so...I'll keep on repairing my armor and weapons every other day (yes it gets damaged pretty quickly), thank God I don't have to replace it or I'd just play a tamer all the time, it'd be all I could afford to play as slow as it is getting runics and rare ore now. *Invis, all kill, invis*

I have to say, it would be awesome to have a nice sash or robe but 20m to 40m is way outta my price range, especially if you can't use PoF on it and the fact my gear gets damaged so fast it's unbelievable...more power to those who can throw money around like that though. Heh.

 

[BajaElladan]

I haven't yet used any replicas or any other non-POF items. I have done numerous champ spawns in Trammel and have NEVER received a drop...of any kind (not replica nor pink scroll).

So for me the whole process was a brief waste of time.

I remain unsure if imbuing will be worth the time and trouble.

It is my view that UO has reached the point where new items are either useless, or merely replacements rendering other items useless. It simply is not possible to add ever more uber items to an almost 12 year old game world, especially while claiming to be attempting to maintain "balance" between all templates which engage in combat (PvP or PvM).

Hopefully EA will finally wake up to these realities and concentrate more on improving in game live content AND improve both in game and real life GM and customer supports.

Elladan of Baja

 

[WildWobble]

A+ on items that have come in recently
AAA+ on non fort even if will hurt my pof sales i don't mind


So they can break big deal
Not like they one of a kind!

 

[Mistura]

Overall enjoying replicas and their non pof-ableness...

Lots of people champing on fel and tram rulesets, good market for replicas and deco items, overall, big success IMHO.

 

[Gheed]

I treid PvM on my melee using Melissa's cloak. I thought it was annoying mousing over one piece of armor every few minutes to see if it were time to repair. Eventually I re configured my suit and took it out. I couldn't imagine what a complete headache it would be with sevel pieces to watch over. Especially since most PvM events involve grinding out long battels with mega healthy mobs.

I wish they would just give non-pofable items 10,000 durability and make then non-repairable too.

 

[WarUltima]

I treid PvM on my melee using Melissa's cloak. I thought it was annoying mousing over one piece of armor every few minutes to see if it were time to repair. Eventually I re configured my suit and took it out. I couldn't imagine what a complete headache it would be with sevel pieces to watch over. Especially since most PvM events involve grinding out long battels with mega healthy mobs.

I wish they would just give non-pofable items 10,000 durability and make then non-repairable too.

I can run anywhere from 30 to 50 points of durability on each piece of armor that I am wearing on my sampire dexer from soloing one champion spawn.

So even if the cloak had 255/255 it will only last me around 5 to 6 spawns before it reaches 0/255

 

[Gheed]

I can run anywhere from 30 to 50 points of durability on each piece of armor that I am wearing on my sampire dexer from soloing one champion spawn.

So even if the cloak had 255/255 it will only last me around 5 to 6 spawns before it reaches 0/255

Now imagine you have several pieces of non-pofable items. All wearing unevenly, some losing points of durabilty on failed repairs. If you tried to get each piece close to 0 before repairing to maximize the life/use of each, you'd be stopping for repairs quite a bit. The alternative is to repair all at once when they got low on durabiltiy and sacrifice some the total life of the suit.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Starting with an item with 255/255 durability, and running it down to 50/xxx before repairing it, you would have used 19890 points of durability before it reached 100/100 (assuming you lose a point of total durability every repair). Granted you would have to repair it more often as it wore down, but that is still alot of damage. Since each piece only has a percentage chance to get damaged each hit, that get even longer. So you already have a system that is better than "10000 durabilty with no repair".

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Gheed]

Starting with an item with 255/255 durability, and running it down to 50/xxx before repairing it, you would have used 19890 points of durability before it reached 100/100 (assuming you lose a point of total durability every repair). Granted you would have to repair it more often as it wore down, but that is still alot of damage. Since each piece only has a percentage chance to get damaged each hit, that get even longer. So you already have a system that is better than "10000 durabilty with no repair".

Stayin Alive,

BG

Yes I knew the total dur was large through repairing. I just threw a large number out there more to make a point.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Yes I knew the total dur was large through repairing. I just threw a large number out there more to make a point.

I see that now. They could just lift the restriction of only using repair deeds in shops (what does the shop have to do with my repair deed anyway?). I only ran the nubers for taking the item down to 50/xxx, you would get alot more out of it if you took it further.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Old Man of UO]

So many people complained about item dependency since the AOS expansion. This is a very subtle and elegant way to reduce some of that dependency without doing a complete revert, by making certain powerful items slowly decay, yet make them desirable.

Now that items start to disappear after a while so that you have to learn NOT to depend on them... well, people complain.

I'm starting to see a pattern here... people complain.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I see that now. They could just lift the restriction of only using repair deeds in shops (what does the shop have to do with my repair deed anyway?). I only ran the nubers for taking the item down to 50/xxx, you would get alot more out of it if you took it further.

Stayin Alive,

BG

This was to prevent repairs on the battle field, get people to leave dungeons and camping spots.

 

[Merv DeGriff]

I mainly use repairable/PoF items when I am using any gear, but that was my preference since I don't farm cash that often.

I just spend most of my time stealthing about in pants and a jacket. Blessed, no hp, and then I start casting.
Try an armorless life... (And your local healer LOVES the extra buisness.)

 

[Harlequin]

I'm starting to see a pattern here... people complain.

I am now complaining that you are complaining about the people who are complaining

At the same time, I also wish to complain about myself for complaining about you...


*Removed lengthy segment on there being no way to please everyone though it's important that people explain their concerns in detail and in a constructive manner so that these can be considered/addressed*

The original segment was 3 paragraphs long heh.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I am now complaining that you are complaining about the people who are complaining

At the same time, I also wish to complain about myself for complaining about you...


*Removed lengthy segment on there being no way to please everyone though it's important that people explain their concerns in detail and in a constructive manner so that these can be considered/addressed*

The original segment was 3 paragraphs long heh.

I'm complaining about the length of your post! heh

It's all about people wanting one thing, they finally get it and realize it didn't solve all their in-game problems. How did we ever get along for several years BEFORE there was even POF powders? We did just fine thank you!

 

[WarUltima]

How did we ever get along for several years BEFORE there was even POF powders? We did just fine thank you!

Oh its because you rarely get to run your durability down completely. You are usually PK'ed and Looted way before you can wear the item down to 0/0 (back in the days there's no visible numeric durability indicator arms lore was used to check the durability on armors and weapons)

But because back in the days UO was still popular and a lot of action, you usually have all kinds of action.

ALSO the chances of getting a godly weapon like Silver Supremely Accuracy Kryss of Vanquishing is still much much higher then getting some items we have nowdays. If you farmed tera keep killing those green spidie warriors you can get tons of magic weapons. It was easy to replace weapons and armors and it was possible to PvP naked... aka. Very small item dependency.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Oh its because you rarely get to run your durability down completely. You are usually PK'ed and Looted way before you can wear the item down to 0/0 (back in the days there's no visible numeric durability indicator arms lore was used to check the durability on armors and weapons)...

You point is well taken about the availability of magic weapons, and I miss looking and hoping for some great monster loot... all but impossible for weapons now.

As far as durability in the old days, we had arms lore to see how badly worn armor and weapons were. But even then, just when you least expected it, whatever you were repairing would break instead of getting repaired. I remember by best UO buddy and guild mate handing me his vanquishing Silver Kryss that I always admired to repair, and then if going *poof* when I tired. I can't tell you how badly I felt. I still liked the way it worked overall.

 

[Gheed]

So many people complained about item dependency since the AOS expansion. This is a very subtle and elegant way to reduce some of that dependency without doing a complete revert, by making certain powerful items slowly decay, yet make them desirable.

Now that items start to disappear after a while so that you have to learn NOT to depend on them... well, people complain.

I'm starting to see a pattern here... people complain.

Sorry Miss. Hilton... I thought the op was asking for opinions. My bad. I'll focus on the good:

Imbuing will be a god send for PvP, ranged combat that recieves very little damage, and tamers. Although I pretty much stick to PvM melee, I am happy for those other templates/playstyles.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
Imbuing will be a god send for PvP, ranged combat that recieves very little damage, and tamers...

Yes, I think you are right. Also for me in PVM, I see people on more populated shards coming up with fantastic PVM weapons... try and try I just can't make one, or even find one to buy for my macer. So now I am starting to keep the very best one with 2 or 3 of the properties that I am looking for, and hoping to be able to imbue them. I am also very aware that they won't be POF-able and will eventually disappear. I don't mind really.

 

[WarUltima]

It's just too hard to actually find a weapon or armor pieces to meet today's requirement and the way system works.

In Legacy UO armor mitigate damage by "points" and "Location". I forgot the exact points taken by which type of armor but say if a plate mitigate 7 points and you take a hally swing for 20 dmg and it landed on that piece of armor you will take 13 points of damage. You can be wearing full set of plate armor but didnt have the plate arm equipped and when you get hit and the "location" rolled on arms that had nothing on you will take damage like you were naked.

A lot of people probably wondered why chain armor dont have a "set" like plates... its because UO was a lot more "realistic". Chainmail Coif covered Helmet and Gorget slot, Chainmail Tunic covered Tunic and Sleeves ect ect and even clothings like fancy shirt and leather boots provided 0-1 point of damage mitigation (thus breakable). You can wear plate sleeves over chainmain arms and the mitigation takes the highest point of mitigation on that slot.

Because its point-based (not percentage) heavy weapons works on heavy armored opponent better and fast weapon works better on lightly armored opponents. Fencing weapons had low min dmg and high max damage property and does extra damage to chainmail and ringmail due to them being "pointy" and can sometimes penetrate the "holes" on them and less damage on plates. Swords = balanced which had no bonus or drawback while macing had bonus damage on armor, shield and stamina but with med-min dmg and mid-max dmg which means lower average dmg and dont "spike" damage like a spear...

As you might already know the system is COMPLETELY ditched when AoS hit which removed much realism out of UO and started the whole Diablotima Online era which has been used till now.

Imbuing could be what's going to save PvM loots, and imbue something into pretty "godly" to today's standard should be "made" easy to do. Then make these godly items easily replaceable by another imbued item.

Sorry about the history lesson and the explanation of UO's legacy combat system... but just giving an example to the newcomers (Even if you joined UO right after AoS 7 years ago I view you as newcomers) in order for them to get little insights on how UO isnt what THE UO used to be.

Dont get me wrong, the old UO was pretty plain with little things to "grind" for. The new UO offered more varieties and is quite interesting and as an oldschool vet I adapted as well. But sadly something valuable in UO and many things that made UO unique had been lost forever...