Discussion: Favorite Villains

[EM Malachi]

I really don’t like silent or sleepy boards, so I’m going to start a discussion thread that is somewhat related to EM events. Consider it research or something. Who are your favorite villains from Ultima, Ultima Online, Live Events, or EM material?

My favorites:

1. Blackthorn – I prefer the original subtle version of Blackthorn of “On the diversity of our land” and “A Political Call to Anarchy, ” but either way, Blackthorn and Chaos have had a huge role in my Ultima experiences.

2. Juo’Nar – The lich who led an undead army during the fall of Trinsic still ranks very high in my esteem after all these years. There was something about fighting this lich on the city walls with my best undead slayer, barely hurting him, that still sticks with me.

3. Casca – I had the privilege of playing Casca during the recent plot, but I still feel he ranks rather high. As the pawn of Falsehood, he was the silence and subtle partner to Hatred’s Andrew and Cowardice’s Melissa. Looking at all the versions of Casca, played by the various Ems, it is rather cool seeing how Deceit took different paths.

 

[Gem]

I really don’t like silent or sleepy boards, so I’m going to start a discussion thread that is somewhat related to EM events. Consider it research or something. Who are your favorite villains from Ultima, Ultima Online, Live Events, or EM material?



2. Juo’Nar – The lich who led an undead army during the fall of Trinsic still ranks very high in my esteem after all these years. There was something about fighting this lich on the city walls with my best undead slayer, barely hurting him, that still sticks with me.

.

I have fond memories of the fall of Trinisic. Shared a little vendor shop right outside the gate with another player...Juo'Nar was awesome and one of the first big shard "EVENTS."

It was very cool, went on for several nights...

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Is it a cop-out to say that I don't think villains should be liked, but should exist to be fought and ultimately overcome?

Probably.

But oh well.

*chuckles*

-Galen's player

 

[EM Malachi]

I think finding a villain interesting as character is different than sympathizing with a person who actually does terrible things. I don't support despots and violent criminals in the real world, but I do feel that McBeth, Darth Vader, and Blackthorn add to their respective stories.

That said, I will agree that a story doesn't need the villain character always. I read the following quote recently:

"What readers care about, in this order: 1. story 2. characters 3. theme 4. atmosphere/setting"

So I will agree if the story is good enough, an interesting antagonist isn't always necessary, but I do think I'd hear some complaints if all the monsters and villains in events were replaced with pure black blobs named "some monster."

 

[A Rev]

When the hell did this board open!?!

Awesome!!

Hmmm, i dont remember the persons name but i only really remember the britain invasion years and years ago.

Would say casca was good fun to have in the game...Blackthorn was a classic, much like mondain.

If your looking for a new evil guy i would think... ... ... EA's Personell person who laid of Draconi!!!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I think finding a villain interesting as character is different than sympathizing with a person who actually does terrible things. I don't support despots and violent criminals in the real world, but I do feel that McBeth, Darth Vader, and Blackthorn add to their respective stories.

That said, I will agree that a story doesn't need the villain character always. I read the following quote recently:

"What readers care about, in this order: 1. story 2. characters 3. theme 4. atmosphere/setting"

So I will agree if the story is good enough, an interesting antagonist isn't always necessary, but I do think I'd hear some complaints if all the monsters and villains in events were replaced with pure black blobs named "some monster."

I guess what I mean is that I view villainy as a plot device, not something that generates interest in and of itself.

You might need it, but I think that our culture focuses on it too much, as though it generates independent interest. I, for one, don't see the James Bond films for the villains. You need them, but they aren't why I'm there.

A "good villain," to me, is one who inspires heroism and who is defeat-able. There is nothing interesting about the untouchable villain.

So far all of yours since I got here have fit the bill nicely...The threats have been real, the fights interesting and fun for the most part, the discourses used by the villains have touched the characters' buttons and have generated some interest. Or at least have touched Galen's buttons, I shouldn't pretend I can speak for the other characters!

You know what? By my own criteria my favorite so far was probably the Brothers of Valor. It was a fascinating mix of fantasy and a decent understanding of the way hate groups work IRL.

It was like, if you could take the KKK and transplant it into a fantasy setting, and imagine how it would "realistically" work, the Brothers of Valor hit it right how I would imagine it.

It also paralleled real life international events to a degree....The fledgling government in a war-torn land, simultaneously facing its first diplomatic challenge and a substantial, well-funded, motivated, and utterly ruthless threat from within.

-Galen's player

 

[EM Elizabella]

Blackthorn - I agree with Mal about preferring the the original Blackthorn, who believed chaos leads to renewal and innovation and who advocated for the other intelligent species of Sosaria. It was interesting to see the "bad guy" presented as someone who had views one could support.

Minax - in contrast, I like this character because she's pure evil. Well, also because her outfit is cool. She's who I'd want to be if I were evil, except I'd rather be on a quest for power and prestige than angry about a dead lover.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Blackthorn - I agree with Mal about preferring the the original Blackthorn, who believed chaos leads to renewal and innovation and who advocated for the other intelligent species of Sosaria. It was interesting to see the "bad guy" presented as someone who had views one could support.

Remember...The original Blackthorn, or rather Blackthorn as originally presented (because it was the same character, he just changed), wasn't supposed to be a villain...At least I don't think he was. I think he was just supposed to have a contrasting ideal. I think he was in the game to set up the idea that not every fantasy conflict has to be about good and evil. (Though of course many are.)

I've always thought Blackthorn's ultimate choice, or fate (depending upon one's point of view) was an interesting contrast.

Was his turning evil a perversion of his ideals? Leaving them behind entirely?

Or, was it the logical consequence of his ideas.

The latter is what Galen would argue in-character. That, whether Blackthorn originally intended it or not, the logical endpoint of total freedom of choice is evil.

http://www.uoguide.com/Blackthorn

Minax - in contrast, I like this character because she's pure evil. Well, also because her outfit is cool. She's who I'd want to be if I were evil, except I'd rather be on a quest for power and prestige than angry about a dead lover.

You want her weapon.

http://www.uoguide.com/Doom_Kiss

-Galen's player