Dev's Please Can You Reinstate The Paragon Forgotten Servants On Origin.

[The House of Mowbray]

Thanks in advance.........

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Unless there's something I'm misunderstanding radically or overlooking, this post only goes to show that there is nothing in this game that someone isn't a big fan of.

-Galen's player

 

[The House of Mowbray]

Unless there's something I'm misunderstanding radically or overlooking, this post only goes to show that there is nothing in this game that someone isn't a big fan of.

-Galen's player

QFT.

And, my take on this is, they've been in the game for a while now - so some players have got used to doing them. They were not doing any harm (not a massive game changer). And they were a GREAT source for chests and Felucca T-maps.

I've not seen many complaints about them from others, so why change it?

Most of the Abyss spawns are easy to complete, and these little guys made that particular spawn a LOT more interesting.........

Please sign this thread in petition to the Dev's if you would like them reinstated.

Thanks.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Unless there's something I'm misunderstanding radically or overlooking, this post only goes to show that there is nothing in this game that someone isn't a big fan of.

Hmmmm, torn actually.

I am a big fan of them. The only reason I am torn is I can see the chests I have gotten increasing in value pretty good if they no longer spawn.

To me that's the hard part for the Dev's honestly. No matter what they do on ANY issue, addition, change etc... they are bound to upset a few folks. All of our tastes and opinions run a WIDE range, no way to please them all.

 

[frostbolt]

no paragons in abyss, they interfere with keying, resource farming, and tinker leg farming.

Not everyone plays a sampire like you. If you want a challenge go fight a paragon greater dragon or something in ilsh, where paragons are meant to spawn not the abyss

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Not everyone plays a sampire like you.

From left to right below:

Chiv/Archer/Tamer
Necro/Mage
Crafter
Straight Pally
Fisher/Thief/Bard {yeah hodgepodge lol}
SW/Mage/Tamer


Nope, no sampire. And I LOVE the paragon servents.

 

[frostbolt]

From left to right below:

Chiv/Archer/Tamer
Necro/Mage
Crafter
Straight Pally
Fisher/Thief
SW/Mage/Tamer


Nope, no sampire. And I LOVE the paragon servents.

then you also love paragons in ilsh go kill them where they are supposed to spawn.

Not only do the paragons interfere with resource farming but they also make it obscenely difficult for a group to get up the steps to the dragon peerless.

They are practically as strong if not stronger than the renown wyvern and so obviously they should not be there, were never meant to be there and therefore must be removed.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I can understand that line of thinking. They can be really tough until you find the pattern needed to kill them off. Everything in the game has a pattern or strategy you need to employ to make it less hazardous. When they first hit I can't begin to tell you how many trips I needed to take to get rezzed up. But, I was determined to see if they had chests on them. Once I saw they did, I was determined to get as many of them as I could. Once I found the strategy to it, it became way easier. True I still die there on a rare occasion, but it is a challenge.

then you also love paragons in ilsh go kill them where they are supposed to spawn.

Honestly, I could care less about the paragons in Ilsh, except for the Daemons. I have most all the chests that drop on critters there. Maybe they can meet both of our sides in the middle. Give us 2 locations to fight the wyvern renowned at. Put a little gate up in the current spawn area that carries those of us brave/foolish enough to kill them to a duplicate area. Make the area from the bridge at the renowned fire elemental spawn {which could be where the gate from the original area takes you too} to the bridge that crosses the lava on the other end. Best of both worlds. 2 wyvern renowneds... beginner and intermediate

 

[frostbolt]

I can understand that line of thinking. They can be really tough until you find the pattern needed to kill them off. Everything in the game has a pattern or strategy you need to employ to make it less hazardous. When they first hit I can't begin to tell you how many trips I needed to take to get rezzed up. But, I was determined to see if they had chests on them. Once I saw they did, I was determined to get as many of them as I could. Once I found the strategy to it, it became way easier. True I still die there on a rare occasion, but it is a challenge.

The abyss spawns were created for the sole purpose of dropping imbuing ingredients, with rewards off the renown to encourage people to finish the spawn. It was not meant to be a so called "challenge". Nor was it meant to take an hour to finish the final level of the spawn.

Challenges are reserved for peerless and champ spawn bosses not for things meant to be killed for keys and resources.

I am also aware that you are one of those people who advocate having "40-50 people" to down a monster, and that your solution if i am on a less populated shard is to transfer to Atlantic based on your responses in the other thread, so don't bother telling me to bring a group if i find it too hard to farm resources down there at the faerie dragon spawn. Because the reasons for why it is not feasible have already been beaten to death.

Honestly, I could care less about the paragons in Ilsh, except for the Daemons. I have most all the chests that drop on critters there. Maybe they can meet both of our sides in the middle. Give us 2 locations to fight the wyvern renowned at. Put a little gate up in the current spawn area that carries those of us brave/foolish enough to kill them to a duplicate area. Make the area from the bridge at the renowned fire elemental spawn {which could be where the gate from the original area takes you too} to the bridge that crosses the lava on the other end. Best of both worlds. 2 wyvern renowneds... beginner and intermediate

This is unnecessary and we both know it will never happen, just take the SA dragon keys and go kill the dragon to sate your need for challenge.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

The abyss spawns were created for the sole purpose of dropping imbuing ingredients, with rewards off the renown to encourage people to finish the spawn. It was not meant to be a so called "challenge". Nor was it meant to take an hour to finish the final level of the spawn.

See, I think differently on this point. I think one of the main reasons they included the mini-champs in the Abyss is because so many people were saying they needed easier spawns than champ spawns. How it was unfair for all the new items dropped on spawns that were too hard. Those threads go back for years prior to the launch of Stygian Abyss. I do recall a Dev mentioning that very thing at one point. I will look around for the post tho.

I also would not agree they did not intend for it to be a challenge. I think they add everything to be a challenge, although I do agree they did not intend for it to be as challenging as it is with the paragon servents. Imo, if they did not intend for it to be somewhat of a challenge to get the imbuing ingredients they would have allowed them to spawn on the ground like mage regs do.

I don't think I have ever advocated for needing 40-50 people to kill champions or monsters tho. I remember saying that is the number of people that would hit the paragon Bally area back when they first hit, however I don't recall saying that is what it should go back too. I do recall saying imo that not everything in the game should be able to be solo'ed. That some things SHOULD require a group of people. I still hold to that idea.

 

[frostbolt]

See, I think differently on this point. I think one of the main reasons they included the mini-champs in the Abyss is because so many people were saying they needed easier spawns than champ spawns. How it was unfair for all the new items dropped on spawns that were too hard. Those threads go back for years prior to the launch of Stygian Abyss. I do recall a Dev mentioning that very thing at one point. I will look around for the post tho.

I also would not agree they did not intend for it to be a challenge. I think they add everything to be a challenge, although I do agree they did not intend for it to be as challenging as it is with the paragon servents. Imo, if they did not intend for it to be somewhat of a challenge to get the imbuing ingredients they would have allowed them to spawn on the ground like mage regs do.

I don't think I have ever advocated for needing 40-50 people to kill champions or monsters tho. I remember saying that is the number of people that would hit the paragon Bally area back when they first hit, however I don't recall saying that is what it should go back too. I do recall saying imo that not everything in the game should be able to be solo'ed. That some things SHOULD require a group of people. I still hold to that idea.

The faerie dragon spawn is now more difficult to complete than a champ spawn (removing raiders from the equation).

The level of Challenge should be scaled along with the intent of the content. While everything technically has a certain level of "challenge" if that challenge level passes a point and makes it impossible for the content to be used as was intended then it breaks the game.

If the content were meant to be farmed for resources for crafting (SA mini spawns). Then obviously they shouldn't be spawning paragons that instant dispel summons, chase you across the entire map, and literally 3-4 hit kill you while wearing all 70 resists.

Besides the forgotten servants were already the hardest to kill out of all of the SA mini spawn monsters, and they even had a secondary mechanic that made them annoying for casters to kill, the fact that they start blue forcing you to click yes i realize this will act is criminal etc etc until they finally turn gray. There was no reason to make it any more difficult when all the other spawns pale in comparison.

And yes you did advocate having something that requires many many people to do.

Agreed. Same thing when paragon Ballys started in Ilsh. Place was mobbed with 40-50 folks all after that great chance at a chest to drop. Then the crowd slowly died off. Everything has an ebb and flow.

Personally I think they should do something THIS agressive at every place a level 8 or higher stealable spawns ESPECIALLY including Nix's shop area where the ruined painting spawns. Since the para servents have kicked in I have been able to snag 4 of the gargish luck totems. Scripters don't stand much of a chance surviving the area now so that leaves them to honest thiefs now days... well as honest as a thief can be

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

The faerie dragon spawn is now more difficult to complete than a champ spawn (removing raiders from the equation).

There was no reason to make it any more difficult when all the other spawns pale in comparison.

Which I agree with in the above post:

although I do agree they did not intend for it to be as challenging as it is with the paragon servents.

And yes you did advocate having something that requires many many people to do.

I take exception to this as you are taking a post I made out of context. To understand the context the post, the post just prior to mine needs to also be taken into consideration:

meeehh... hmmm.... idk....

Yes the spawn is very difficult with the paragon elf-mages but think back. To all you old-timer UO players back in 98'/99' don't you remember going down to bottom of Hythloth with like 20 people to kill a Balron Daemon? That was also.... 'very difficult'; monsters in general used to be much harder to kill.

Agreed. Same thing when paragon Ballys started in Ilsh. Place was mobbed with 40-50 folks all after that great chance at a chest to drop. Then the crowd slowly died off. Everything has an ebb and flow.

I was not advocating it should take 40-50 folks to kill anything. Merely agreeing with Airhaun. I do not remember going down to Hyloth in 98/99 because I started just after AOS launch. That being the case I was taking his experience and relating it to one I experienced, so those that started around that time could follow it as well. I have never held to position that anything should take a group that large to kill, except maybe an EM Event critter, or story arc boss.

And when I was referring to something this agressive at high level stealable spawn areas, I was referring to the paragon servents, not paragon ballys. Everyone knows nothing stealable spawns where the paragon ballys spawn. However one does spawn at the wyvern renowned area.

 

[frostbolt]

I was not advocating it should take 40-50 folks to kill anything. Merely agreeing with Airhaun. I do not remember going down to Hyloth in 98/99 because I started just after AOS launch. That being the case I was taking his experience and relating it to one I experienced, so those that started around that time could follow it as well. I have never held to position that anything should take a group that large to kill, except maybe an EM Event critter, or story arc boss.

And when I was referring to something this agressive at high level stealable spawn areas, I was referring to the paragon servents, not paragon ballys. Everyone knows nothing stealable spawns where the paragon ballys spawn. However one does spawn at the wyvern renowned area.

Of course i know you were talking about paragon servants, i don't particularly care about paragon balrons seeing as they don't spawn in the abyss anyway. You were referring to paragon servants and that they should continue to spawn in a way that is "highly aggressive" comparable to those super balrons to deter scripting thieves from stealing artifact deco.

And in doing so you did in fact take the stance that paragon servants should spawn for the reason of (deterring scripters and other thieves).


Secondly you also said that things "should not be cut back and made easier" and that the solution is essentially to find a group or transfer

Again, sorry y'all are on seemingly dead shards. I would hate to know I had to solo everything in game because I had to not just because it would be a challenge. However, this spawn IS soloable even with the paragons running around. It does take a little time tho.

Should everything in game be cut back and made easier so folks on dead shards can solo it tho? Some things are not meant to be soloed, sorry. If I were on a shard that dead I would invest in some xfer tokens

Despite the fact that reverting paragons isn't actually making things easier but is rather fixing something that should not actually be happening. You might argue that i am taking things out of context again, since you were arguing about keeping things difficult in general. But your find a group or transfer argument in this quote applies to the abyss minispawns anyway, seeing as how you wanted the difficulty to remain at paragon levels in abyss minispawns and are unwilling to see it reverted.

Both of these quotes together in which you made it clear that you advocate the increased difficulty of the spawn (post 45), along with post 37 in which you advocated grouping and if not possible shard transferring led me to attempt to stop the beginning of a particular argument before it begins.

I am not trying to nitpick at what you are saying here, but the only reason why i brought up what you said in that thread was to prevent a discussion about finding a group of people to compensate for the increased difficulty, because that is a solution that i find to be unacceptable.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I also have said it is easily soloable. I guess we can just agree to disagree, and that is always a good thing.

 

[frostbolt]

I also have said it is easily soloable. I guess we can just agree to disagree, and that is always a good thing.

Then we go back to the issue of the "point of the content". The faerie dragon spawn is no longer worth doing because the challenge level and the amount of time it takes to do is inflated beyond the original purposes of the spawn which is ingredient farming and keying. The rewards for doing the spawn have not changed and so the point of the content remains the same, but the new difficulty does not reflect the purpose of the spawn.

Therefore the spawn should be reverted back to its original state so that it can be used for its intended purpose.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Like Kenny Rogers once sang......

Gotta know when to fold em..... *breaks out duct tape and places over mouth to avoid further discussion*

 

[Obsidian]

These paragons need to be removed. They were not part of the original mini-champ design and make this one spawn much more difficult than the rest. If people want the ability to get chests, put a forgotten servant spawn somewhere in Ilshenar and let it follow the normal 1 in 20 paragon rules.

 

[MalagAste]

I haven't set one toe in the Abyss since the Paragons began. Don't intend to either. Not that I spent a whole lot of time down there anyway but, the Paragons belong in Ilsh... not in the Abyss.

Each place has it's own uniqueness and that is as it should be.


Also the DEV's broke the spawns in the Abyss and are just setting it right.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

It is clear that the Paragon Forgotten Servants were a bug.

There were several threads complaining about it.

Apparently it's fixed, which I haven't checked, but apparently it is.

And now, there are folks complaining about the fix.

If you ever wonder why they don't fix more stuff, more often, one reason, I suspect, is that they never know what fixes people are going to, paradoxically, object to.

-Galen's player

 

[The House of Mowbray]

Like Kenny Rogers once sang......

Gotta know when to fold em..... *breaks out duct tape and places over mouth to avoid further discussion*

Very wise Kylie, you were never gonna get anywhere with that one

Like the idea of the forgotten servants spawn in Ish......

What the Dev's could do though, is put pinkies in T-chests from ALL lands, then I wouldn't have to kill these critters at all.

The spawn rate of T-maps in Felucca is waaaay too slow, and I suspect the ratio of 1-100 is currently not working properly over there, especially with the high level creatures (Daemons etc upwards). I've killed 100s in a 4 hour camp and not received a single map.

 

[The House of Mowbray]

It is clear that the Paragon Forgotten Servants were a bug.

There were several threads complaining about it.

Apparently it's fixed, which I haven't checked, but apparently it is.

And now, there are folks complaining about the fix.

If you ever wonder why they don't fix more stuff, more often, one reason, I suspect, is that they never know what fixes people are going to, paradoxically, object to.

-Galen's player

Noone is complaining about anything.

I'm just simply asking - nicely - if the Dev's could be so kind as to switch them back on.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Very wise Kylie, you were never gonna get anywhere with that one

Like the idea of the forgotten servants spawn in Ish......

*nods head in agreement*

Mmmmm mmmmmmmmm mmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm.

*waves bye*

 

[Pfloyd]

I think we can now say that after the publish to all shards, the forgotten servant (paragons) can actually be...

i just bought up all those paragon chests i could find heh

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Noone is complaining about anything.

I'm just simply asking - nicely - if the Dev's could be so kind as to switch them back on.

I, for one, much-prefer the Forgotten Servants without Paragons, as appears to be the original design.

-Galen's player

 

[Vyal]

QFT.

And, my take on this is, they've been in the game for a while now - so some players have got used to doing them. They were not doing any harm (not a massive game changer). And they were a GREAT source for chests and Felucca T-maps.

I've not seen many complaints about them from others, so why change it?

Most of the Abyss spawns are easy to complete, and these little guys made that particular spawn a LOT more interesting.........

Please sign this thread in petition to the Dev's if you would like them reinstated.

Thanks.

Your SOL bud now go to ish and get maps that way, Sorry that sucks don't it!

There was an entire thread with people asking to have it changed, now go to ish and get your stupid t maps.

Want a challenge go play Siege, or do a champ.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

... did the paragon servants give you fel tmaps in the chest everytime? or did they just drop chests more often? Dont get why the tram abyss servants would help you get more fel tmaps for pinkies. Just get back to miasma and get your lvl 6 maps for all lands there.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

so some players have got used to doing them. a GREAT source for Felucca T-maps.

sure, what, a half dozen players might be used to it, the rest of us players (the majority) stopped playing. Sorry, but the game isn't being designed for just six people. [well, maybe Seige]
Mine has a tokuno map in it, crappy loot, and the same gold as a non-paragon(1200'ish)

I'm with GalenKnighthawke, it was a bug, it got fixed, get over it

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

the rest of us players (the majority) stopped playing.

Nothing against you personally here Sevin. But I find that statement a sad commentary on UO as a whole honestly. The majority of the players found the increased difficulty too hard for them to stay and figure out how to tackle it. Where would UO be overall if we applied that same logic to everything in game? Would we all still be running around battling nothing but lich's? Possibly. While I have agreed the spawn as it has been with para servents was more difficult than it was intended to be originally, with a little strategy it was easily soloable.

I am in no way advocating they should still remain in game in this SPECIFIC post {I put specific in all caps so it would stand out for those that seem unable to follow a conversation}.... I have grown tired of and in all honesty. I just felt like commenting on that mentality in general was all.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

Nothing against you personally here Sevin. But I find that statement a sad commentary on UO as a whole honestly. The majority of the players found the increased difficulty too hard for them to stay and figure out how to tackle it. Where would UO be overall if we applied that same logic to everything in game? Would we all still be running around battling nothing but lich's? Possibly. While I have agreed the spawn as it has been with para servents was more difficult than it was intended to be originally, with a little strategy it was easily soloable.

I am in no way advocating they should still remain in game in this SPECIFIC post {I put specific in all caps so it would stand out for those that seem unable to follow a conversation}.... I have grown tired of and in all honesty. I just felt like commenting on that mentality in general was all.

I think its mostly a matter of people knew it was a bug and would go away so casual players left em alone or hated them. Some challenge junkies enjoyed them, some paragon junkies enjoyed them. The devs can look at this and perhaps place alil shack in the middle of ilshnar where a servant or two spawns, thatd appease most i think

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I think its mostly a matter of people knew it was a bug and would go away so casual players left em alone or hated them. Some challenge junkies enjoyed them, some paragon junkies enjoyed them.

Good point. I had it twice as bad being a challenge junkie and a paragon chest junkie

 

[The House of Mowbray]

... did the paragon servants give you fel tmaps in the chest everytime? or did they just drop chests more often? Dont get why the tram abyss servants would help you get more fel tmaps for pinkies

The Paragon chests still give one ingenious map from one of the five lands per chest. If it was a Felucca map, and you were lucky once the chest was dug up (sometimes you get another map inside), you could get a run of maps to do - one after the other - that were all in Felucca, and that produced one 0.5 pink per.

Each Forgotten Servant spawn produced between 2 and 5 chests, again depending on your luck with the RNG........

 

[Lady Storm]

Simple Answer: NO

The over welming cry to repair them from a majority of the players out shines that which find them fun/profetable.

 

[Meatbread]

If you want to do a hard spawn, go do a hard spawn. This was an obvious bug.

 

[Shelleybean]

Thank you devs for fixing this bug.