Devs - Long overdue Curse spell adjustment

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Without question the most powerful spell in the game.

Why is it only 4th level? Too quick to cast and costs way too little mana

Nothing like taking an all 70's suit down to all 60's AND killing swing speed at the same time.

A warrior has 120 Resisting Spells and still takes the above 2 gigantic penalties? Seriously?

You dont think there is a reason that EVERY mage in the game starts EVERY fight by casting it and instantly re-casts it once you eat an apple?

And please spare me the little template specific bs work-arounds. Nobody should have to squeeze in Chiv and fc jewels on EVERY warrior template just to combat one spell that is so brutally effective & overpowered on EVERY mage template.

Simple adjustment. Raise it to 6th level to at least increase the chance of it getting disrupted when re-cast.

It is so sad that for years all mages have been running offscreen to pre-cast it to start a fight. Can't stop that gutless move but at least can hinder its re-cast a tiny bit.

My 2 cents coming from a warriors perspective.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

It costs the same as any other 4th level spell you're making it sound as if it casts at 1st circle with 1st circle mana but its 4th in the book.

It effects mages just the same with their int and resists. Lower int = lower sdi. Its the mage version of what happens to a dexer.

The reason every mage casts it is because if they don't it reduces their damage by about 33%.

You don't HAVE to put chiv on, on top of which if you do choose to use it, you don't HAVE to have fc it will still cast.

The difference is dexers don't need to cast something for their damage to be amplified, nor is there anything like an apple that reduces their damage by 33% until they cast something on you[like mages have to do for curse].

Also there are many options to remove curse. You have remove curse, apples, faction bandages, cleansing winds, and tailsmans. So you are not forced to do anything while a mage has to get this spell off after its being removed over and over. Not to mention that while they are trying to debuff their target since they can't just cast on them or they do much less damage, they can get disrupted the entire time making it very difficult to redebuff[Auto attacks and hit delay spells].

Now that you brought that to everyones attention maybe dexers should have to cast some sort of dexer spell or else they have reduced damage until they do. Sounds fair to me!

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

It costs the same as any other 4th level spell you're making it sound as if it casts at 1st circle with 1st circle mana but its 4th in the book.

It effects mages just the same with their int and resists. Lower int = lower sdi. Its the mage version of what happens to a dexer.

The reason every mage casts it is because if they don't it reduces their damage by about 33%.

You don't HAVE to put chiv on, on top of which if you do choose to use it, you don't HAVE to have fc it will still cast.

The difference is dexers don't need to cast something for their damage to be amplified, nor is there anything like an apple that reduces their damage by 33% until they cast something on you[like mages have to do for curse].

Also there are many options to remove curse. You have remove curse, apples, faction bandages, cleansing winds, and tailsmans. So you are not forced to do anything while a mage has to get this spell off after its being removed over and over. Not to mention that while they are trying to debuff their target since they can't just cast on them or they do much less damage, they can get disrupted the entire time making it very difficult to redebuff[Auto attacks and hit delay spells].

Now that you brought that to everyones attention maybe dexers should have to cast some sort of dexer spell or else they have reduced damage until they do. Sounds fair to me!

What are you talking about? My OP clearly uses a mage vs warrior example. How does not casting Curse reduce a mages damage vs. a warrior? Do you understand the difference between an actual amount of damage vs. a reduction in damage? I dont think so lol.

Do you not realize that everybody can instantly see right through your doubletalk?

Your nonsensical doubletalk perfectly illustrates my OP though. Ty.

Based upon your own words one easily chainable 4th level spell increases your damage by 33%
Thats not overpowered and in need of a nerf? Okaaaay...

And FYI: Dexxers do need to cast something for their damage to be amplified. Its a special called Armor Ignore and unlike Curse it can whiff or be parried. And it costs alot more mana.

 

[Capt.E]

Why don't we nerf explode. And flamestrike, and for that matter fireball and magic arrow and energy bolt and then and only then. Everyone will quit and you will be the only person on so you will finally win.

Warriors have already gotten stronger by the means of having perfect suits. Having 60 resists for 12-15 seconds is not that bad.

Wait,what am I saying?

Ya, nerf mages into oblivion until the only option is to play a throwing template.

 

[Gospel]

Sounds like someone got owned by a mage and wants to cry about it and have us hug him and tell him it's ok and he's still a winner in our book.

Nay sir. You are not a winner.

I'd love to write a legitimate post illustrating why you are wrong, but it appears someone already tried that. And while he made several solid points, it seems you'd rather ignore them are resort to childish insults. Since you seem only capable of General chat nonsense, I'll speak your language;

Go cry more. Curse is an old spell. If you can't kill a mage because he cursed you, you shouldn't be pvping. You also shouldn't be operating machinery or dressing yourself. L2P or GTFO.

Make sense now?

 

[Vexxed]

@ the OP.......

If you play a Dexxer enough that you felt the need to post this you should have long since learned how to build a dexxer suit / setup so that Curse effects your stats exactly as much as your comfortable with. Curse only reduces your BASE stats, which means that you can account for this loss ahead of time so that you have say 140 DEXTERITY AFTER being cursed (aka Max Bandage speed). I do this on all my dexxers & build the suit knowing what Hit points / stam / DeX / ETC I will want to have AFTER being cursed. Of course I always looked at apples as a bonus to use in dire circumstances not as something I need to pound every time 1 mage runs on screen..... As for the 60 Resist that's really no big deal. imo it's factored into mages & warriors balance issues already.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

What are you talking about? My OP clearly uses a mage vs warrior example. How does not casting Curse reduce a mages damage vs. a warrior? Do you understand the difference between an actual amount of damage vs. a reduction in damage? I dont think so lol.

Do you not realize that everybody can instantly see right through your doubletalk?

Your nonsensical doubletalk perfectly illustrates my OP though. Ty.

Based upon your own words one easily chainable 4th level spell increases your damage by 33%
Thats not overpowered and in need of a nerf? Okaaaay...

And FYI: Dexxers do need to cast something for their damage to be amplified. Its a special called Armor Ignore and unlike Curse it can whiff or be parried. And it costs alot more mana.

How does it not? Clearly you're new to pvp then. If you don't cast curse you do 33% less damage to a warrior. If you don't cast a curse everything under 6th circle isn't even enough damage to have the bandage slipping effect that reduces the healing slightly. If a mage does not curse a target, that target should NEVER die, if they do they are bad, period.

Is everyone else lost when he seems see right through double talk? Okay glad it's not just me.

I'm glad you agree that it's not easy for a mage to get off a spell that they NEED or a target takes much less damage, where as a warrior doesn't have this problem and they always have high static damage an no consumable lowers their damage, so thank you for agreeing.

Based on my own words I stated mages can be disrupted and there are currently 5 things you can do to remove curse, unlike a dexer whose damage can be be lowered by eating an apple or any other consumable.

And last but no least, specials are not casted. If that were the case a mage could cast nothing but 1st circle and disrupt an armor ignore, and that's not how it works. So you are wrong yet again.

Too easy.

Next.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

@ the OP.......

If you play a Dexxer enough that you felt the need to post this you should have long since learned how to build a dexxer suit / setup so that Curse effects your stats exactly as much as your comfortable with. Curse only reduces your BASE stats, which means that you can account for this loss ahead of time so that you have say 140 DEXTERITY AFTER being cursed (aka Max Bandage speed). I do this on all my dexxers & build the suit knowing what Hit points / stam / DeX / ETC I will want to have AFTER being cursed. Of course I always looked at apples as a bonus to use in dire circumstances not as something I need to pound every time 1 mage runs on screen..... As for the 60 Resist that's really no big deal. imo it's factored into mages & warriors balance issues already.

1) Having all 70's resists instantly negated to all 60's resist is "really no big deal" Are you serious?
That means that your mages all run with suits not one point over 60 in each resist because its no big deal?
Timed apples are a small counter but in no way the answer.

2) Saying its already factored into mage/warrior balance issues only proves my point more. Its so common and overpowered that in your own words it had to be factored in over all these years? Wow.
How do you believe it was factored in though i wonder?

3) You make a good point about bandages & are 100% correct that when building a suit you adjust base stats to match desired bandage timer.
But my OP clearly stated I have issue with the loss of swing speed. Which is ofc stamina based and has nothing to do with bandage timer. If you play a good warrior you realize that its not all about the max swing speed you start out with and you learn to factor in loss of swing speed when taking damage. Red pots are incredible and very effective but they still cant replace loss of stamina in all situations. Why should the Curse spell instantly take away a huge chunk of my stamina?

Even with re-forging & imbuing building a great pvp suit requires alot of time and effort and tradeoffs.
IMO way too much of this is nullified by the Curse spell.

Bottom line is that anyone telling me that a warrior running with 120 Resisting Spells should lose a huge chunk of stats and resists because of one 4th level spell is just plain clueless or completely mage biased.
How long its been going on for is not a valid argument. Times and templates change/evolve. Armor Ignore was around for years before it got its much needed nerf. Should it not have only because of its age?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

How does it not? Clearly you're new to pvp then. If you don't cast curse you do 33% less damage to a warrior. If you don't cast a curse everything under 6th circle isn't even enough damage to have the bandage slipping effect that reduces the healing slightly. If a mage does not curse a target, that target should NEVER die, if they do they are bad, period.

Is everyone else lost when he seems see right through double talk? Okay glad it's not just me.

I'm glad you agree that it's not easy for a mage to get off a spell that they NEED or a target takes much less damage, where as a warrior doesn't have this problem and they always have high static damage an no consumable lowers their damage, so thank you for agreeing.

Based on my own words I stated mages can be disrupted and there are currently 5 things you can do to remove curse, unlike a dexer whose damage can be be lowered by eating an apple or any other consumable.

And last but no least, specials are not casted. If that were the case a mage could cast nothing but 1st circle and disrupt an armor ignore, and that's not how it works. So you are wrong yet again.

Too easy.

Next.

The Curse counters that you stated are a joke. The only effective one for all warrior templates is apples and they are quickly negated by the instant re-cast of Curse.
You just dont get it bud. EVERY casting template enjoys the overpowered benefit of the Curse spell. You can build whatever type of mage you want and you have Curse built right in.
You are trying to say that the counter to this is that EVERY warrior template must have Chiv or Mysticism for Cleanse Winds? Thats a complete joke.
All warriors should get Chiv and use up valuable properties in equipment to squeeze on fc just to combat one 4th level spell?
*shakes head*

Your doubletalk is quite amusing.
You argue against any point made that is not mage friendly and your arguments are only useless and ineffective measures.

I point out that Curse is overpowered and your counters are what?
get faction aids? - Okaaaaay. Lets all be forced into factions because a spell is overpowered
get Mysticism on all warriors? - Too ridiculous for words
get Chiv on all warriors? - a tiny bit valid but still in no way a true counter to the spell considering the huge tradeoffs of equipment and template.
apples? - one use and done for way too long. The Curse spell is always re-cast instantly
talisman? - even sillier then every warrior haveing to also be a halfass mystic.

 

[CovenantX]

Without question the most powerful spell in the game.

Why is it only 4th level? Too quick to cast and costs way too little mana

Nothing like taking an all 70's suit down to all 60's AND killing swing speed at the same time.

A warrior has 120 Resisting Spells and still takes the above 2 gigantic penalties? Seriously?

You dont think there is a reason that EVERY mage in the game starts EVERY fight by casting it and instantly re-casts it once you eat an apple?

And please spare me the little template specific bs work-arounds. Nobody should have to squeeze in Chiv and fc jewels on EVERY warrior template just to combat one spell that is so brutally effective & overpowered on EVERY mage template.

Simple adjustment. Raise it to 6th level to at least increase the chance of it getting disrupted when re-cast.

It is so sad that for years all mages have been running offscreen to pre-cast it to start a fight. Can't stop that gutless move but at least can hinder its re-cast a tiny bit.

My 2 cents coming from a warriors perspective.

lol.... add hit-curse to weapons.... oh, it already exists, except the fact it's bugged, And it's only on One Gargoyle-only Sword....

 

[Picus at the office]

I gave up bothering to build 70's suits as curse just cleared out 16% of my total resists on every suit I built regardless of what I do or did. I'd be happy to see a reduced timer on this spell as even at 120 resist it seems to hang around for ages regardless of the char type it's been cast on(save for a 4/0-6 chiv guy). I guess that one could say that HLA/HLD are close but they don't reduce a mages int or mana nor do they increase my damage rate by the reduced 16% loss of resist points. I've been looking at reforging mana drain onto a weapon to see what it does in a fight but limited research seems to have been done and I'm not sure if its cumulative or not. If not and I hit for max damage on a AI the best I can hope for is 7 mana drained from a person at a time Hit Mana Drain - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia . I'm not sure on the timing or duration of this effect though I think others have done some inquiry(hint, hint).

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I gave up bothering to build 70's suits as curse just cleared out 16% of my total resists on every suit I built regardless of what I do or did. I'd be happy to see a reduced timer on this spell as even at 120 resist it seems to hang around for ages regardless of the char type it's been cast on(save for a 4/0-6 chiv guy). I guess that one could say that HLA/HLD are close but they don't reduce a mages int or mana nor do they increase my damage rate by the reduced 16% loss of resist points. I've been looking at reforging mana drain onto a weapon to see what it does in a fight but limited research seems to have been done and I'm not sure if its cumulative or not. If not and I hit for max damage on a AI the best I can hope for is 7 mana drained from a person at a time Hit Mana Drain - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia . I'm not sure on the timing or duration of this effect though I think others have done some inquiry(hint, hint).

Well theres part of your problem right there. If you claim to pvp a lot and you're not having your suits with 75fire/poison or atleast 75/70 no wonder pvp is brutal for you. You're building your suit wrong so that spells will hammer you.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

1) Having all 70's resists instantly negated to all 60's resist is "really no big deal" Are you serious?
That means that your mages all run with suits not one point over 60 in each resist because its no big deal?
Timed apples are a small counter but in no way the answer.

2) Saying its already factored into mage/warrior balance issues only proves my point more. Its so common and overpowered that in your own words it had to be factored in over all these years? Wow.
How do you believe it was factored in though i wonder?

3) You make a good point about bandages & are 100% correct that when building a suit you adjust base stats to match desired bandage timer.
But my OP clearly stated I have issue with the loss of swing speed. Which is ofc stamina based and has nothing to do with bandage timer. If you play a good warrior you realize that its not all about the max swing speed you start out with and you learn to factor in loss of swing speed when taking damage. Red pots are incredible and very effective but they still cant replace loss of stamina in all situations. Why should the Curse spell instantly take away a huge chunk of my stamina?

Even with re-forging & imbuing building a great pvp suit requires alot of time and effort and tradeoffs.
IMO way too much of this is nullified by the Curse spell.

Bottom line is that anyone telling me that a warrior running with 120 Resisting Spells should lose a huge chunk of stats and resists because of one 4th level spell is just plain clueless or completely mage biased.
How long its been going on for is not a valid argument. Times and templates change/evolve. Armor Ignore was around for years before it got its much needed nerf. Should it not have only because of its age?

Then you're building your suits and doing your stats wrong, or you're playing with no resist to have it change your swing speed by .25 seconds. Either way it's all something you're doing wrong, curse shouldn't change your heal or your swing if you're setting it up correctly. Problem solved learn how to fix your suit. For someone who pretty much only plays a dexer I can see why you think the world is unfair. You seem to not know what weapons to use, or how to set up a suit.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

The Curse counters that you stated are a joke. The only effective one for all warrior templates is apples and they are quickly negated by the instant re-cast of Curse.
You just dont get it bud. EVERY casting template enjoys the overpowered benefit of the Curse spell. You can build whatever type of mage you want and you have Curse built right in.
You are trying to say that the counter to this is that EVERY warrior template must have Chiv or Mysticism for Cleanse Winds? Thats a complete joke.
All warriors should get Chiv and use up valuable properties in equipment to squeeze on fc just to combat one 4th level spell?
*shakes head*

Your doubletalk is quite amusing.
You argue against any point made that is not mage friendly and your arguments are only useless and ineffective measures.

I point out that Curse is overpowered and your counters are what?
get faction aids? - Okaaaaay. Lets all be forced into factions because a spell is overpowered
get Mysticism on all warriors? - Too ridiculous for words
get Chiv on all warriors? - a tiny bit valid but still in no way a true counter to the spell considering the huge tradeoffs of equipment and template.
apples? - one use and done for way too long. The Curse spell is always re-cast instantly
talisman? - even sillier then every warrior haveing to also be a halfass mystic.

You must not pvp too much if you don't understand why mages have to curse. If they don't any spell they cast under 6th circle won't even disrupt a dexers bandage to make it heal for less. Ergo a mage would never kill a skilled dexer without curse. Mages have this problem that warriors dont. It's that their damage is reduced by 33% unless they cast a spell. A spell that currently has 5 ways to get rid of it.

Again you don't read very well. You don't HAVE to have those skills, nor do you need to consume them with properties as you're crying to claim. You CAN have any of those skills/items. Additionally if you do it right you and have high enough karma you can cast remove curse with JoaT. Neither of which require skill/items/properties.

My argument is rock solid and you have nothing to say about it. If you choose not to play a template that has any of those means to remove it, that's your business.

Faction aids- no one is putting a gun to your head to use them. If you think curse is as bad as WoD as you're making it out to be then it would behoove you to join factions for access to an item that clearly you NEED.

You claim you don't like curse mysticism is an option, did I say you have to get it? No. Is it an option? Yes.

Chiv - You don't even need the skill for this. Just being a human with JoaT you can cast it if you have high karma. Also you don't need FC or Items going into this. You can run your normal set up and still cast it. It's that simple.

Apples- maybe use them smart and they are extremely efficient. I won't tell you how to use them if you haven't figured that out, but I will say a well timed apple and hit fireball can make trying to kill a dexer more difficult 10fold.

Talisman - I'm not sure whats so silly about putting a talisman on and remove curse and taking it off. Is it because that's too much work for you? If so that's your problem not everyone else.

So 5 ways you can remove curse if you hate it, 3 of which you can do if you're a human, 4 if you're a human in factions.

Lastly I like how you do this, where you ignore things after I point something out about what you said. For example you had nothing to say about Armor Ignore being "cast" when I said if thats the case it could be disrupted with 1st circle ie weaken ect. It's not the same at all and a dexer doesn't have to do anything so that their damage hits harder. You would be singing a different tune if you fought a mystic for example and everytime you wanted to armor ignore them for 35 and have your spells hit as hard as they can if you had to cast something on them first THEN go offense.

No reason for the change especially with 5 ways to remove curse.

 

[Picus at the office]

Well theres part of your problem right there. If you claim to pvp a lot and you're not having your suits with 75fire/poison or atleast 75/70 no wonder pvp is brutal for you. You're building your suit wrong so that spells will hammer you.

Why on earth would I bother to make my suits corpse proof when no one uses tht skill set anymore, I can apply those weightings to things that I find I need more often like the current eaters, this said fire is always overweighted all the same. PvP is far from brutal for me, I never said it was nor did I say that I need help. I build my suits to utilize what I see as crucial elements and, sadly, all 70 resists are not one of them.

I see little reason to ratched up the poison as one spell hits there, one field which is used to poison more then damage plus natures fury which is more to annoy and block than anything else. I cure if struck most of the time before another tick hits me. Cold is hardly a factor unless a dexxer has made a cold weapon which is a rare chance at best(I guess I could get harm spammed and most mystics swapped out that skill after it was tamed down so I really don't worry about hail storm). Energy and Fire are the only spaces where a enhancement can really be seen taking to 70+(and fire is the only spot really worth the odd points spent and given that we all use leather I factor in horned after the build all the same).

Thanks for your thoughts all the same. I do think some of you postings are insightful and a pleasure to read yet I'll leave my dexxer suits to be built by a player whom has, I suspect, a greater level of knowledge of that sector of the market then yourself.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Why on earth would I bother to make my suits corpse proof when no one uses tht skill set anymore, I can apply those weightings to things that I find I need more often like the current eaters, this said fire is always overweighted all the same. PvP is far from brutal for me, I never said it was nor did I say that I need help. I build my suits to utilize what I see as crucial elements and, sadly, all 70 resists are not one of them.

I see little reason to ratched up the poison as one spell hits there, one field which is used to poison more then damage plus natures fury which is more to annoy and block than anything else. I cure if struck most of the time before another tick hits me. Cold is hardly a factor unless a dexxer has made a cold weapon which is a rare chance at best(I guess I could get harm spammed and most mystics swapped out that skill after it was tamed down so I really don't worry about hail storm). Energy and Fire are the only spaces where a enhancement can really be seen taking to 70+(and fire is the only spot really worth the odd points spent and given that we all use leather I factor in horned after the build all the same).

Thanks for your thoughts all the same. I do think some of you postings are insightful and a pleasure to read yet I'll leave my dexxer suits to be built by a player whom has, I suspect, a greater level of knowledge of that sector of the market then yourself.

Why on earth would you not have that, if any dexer is using a quiver that changes it to elemental damage or a weapon that isn't 100% physical, you will take substantially more damage.

1 spell? You now have lots of players that have dp at the very least, which hits rather hard, on top of it if you're fighting a smart necro they'll corpse for sure. Then you have strangle and poison strike which both do decent damage. Also as I already mentioned the multitude of ways that weapons can be used to hit elemental damage. Natures furies don't do much of anything, they never really did, they were only okay for a bit when casted in a house to kill afk players.

On top of all this a lot of pets hit with all elemental damage, if not a large portion. You don't know what you're talking about for pvp, but it's cute that you think healing off 2 damage down the road is better than taking 10 less on a hit.

I now see why you didn't want to go in the arena to show me how apt you are at pvp.

I just picture the mage wep template you made, plus a suit like that, no wonder you don't like pvp/aren't good at it!

I do however commend you for having handicapping yourself like that and attempting to pvp. Well done!

 

[Picus at the office]

LOL. Clearly I have missed the boat loads of people whom you see fighting on a daily basis. The piles of necros waiting to jump me at every bend and a gaggle of archers swapping out quivers after adding up my resists. A person might, might have a val or other enhanced weapon but most people are lazy and have not bothered to do such since imbueing came out and we all stored our old val stuff in the bank. There are hardly lots of players who have DP, there are some but lots is more desciptive of the afkers at the bank. Tamers hardly factor in anymore as only a chump brings a dragon/mare/beetle/whatever to a fight and we all know that if I managed to die to that set up I was either playing 5 years ago or was a total moron last night but either way I could care a less.

You didn't tell me the multitude of ways a person could hit for other damage, you told me two.

I mentioned one spell for poison because there is only one spell that hits for that damage, how on earth a leet caster as yourself doesn't know that is beyond me. I also said that I'm not overly concerned with a tick as I carry enough pots to cure it.

I don't recall you asking for a arena fight and, frankly, that is a place for chumps who don't leave the gate where nothing gets finished and lag would be your reasoning anyways though I guess you could offer a bet of 100 million cause that style of not paying up hasn't grown old.

While I hope that you take the time to do a bit of research into the game and what has changed, what helps you best and what makes a suit worth the effort I am now seeing that this isn't the case hence your struggle at defending the -mage weapon.

Again thanks for the insight but while I was once mistaken that you actually had a good handle upon what PvP really is I am now clearly seeing that you are one directional and can offer but limited thought and imput.

 

[Tjalle]

The reason every mage casts it is because if they don't it reduces their damage by about 33%.

Nothing is reduced here. Why even use that word? Don´t answer that.

Your normal damage is your normal damage. However, when you cast curse you increase your damage towards your target. If you don´t cast curse then you have your normal damage.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Nothing is reduced here. Why even use that word? Don´t answer that.

Your normal damage is your normal damage. However, when you cast curse you increase your damage towards your target. If you don´t cast curse then you have your normal damage.

What happens when someone apples in pvp? Oh a mages damage is REDUCED 33% when a target isn't cursed.

 

[CovenantX]

You didn't tell me the multitude of ways a person could hit for other damage, you told me two.

I mentioned one spell for poison because there is only one spell that hits for that damage, how on earth a leet caster as yourself doesn't know that is beyond me. I also said that I'm not overly concerned with a tick as I carry enough pots to cure it.

There really is only two ways of hitting for other damage types they are... Weapons that do different damage types (many ways to achieve this) & Casting spells.

Poison Strike does Direct-Poison Damage & Strangle/Poison do Poison damage over time, then there are other spells, (spell-plague,Nether Bolt, & Nether Cyclone, and Word of Death?) could potentially hit poison resist, as well as any resistance type, (They do Chaos Damage, which picks one of the 5 resistance types randomly).



As someone who primarily plays UO for the pvp, I can honestly say I have VERY few weapons that do physical damage for every single dexer I have. but I can tell you, I don't have any suits (with the exception of a luck suit for pvm) that are not all 70s and 75 fire/poison resistance (corpse proof), in both Pvm & Pvp.

 

[Tjalle]

What happens when someone apples in pvp? Oh a mages damage is REDUCED 33% when a target isn't cursed.

But you´re trying to make it sound as if the damage on a cursed target is the mages "base" damage which is not true.
What happens is that you lose your increased damage and is now back to your normal damage output.

You know it and I know it.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

LOL. Clearly I have missed the boat loads of people whom you see fighting on a daily basis. The piles of necros waiting to jump me at every bend and a gaggle of archers swapping out quivers after adding up my resists. A person might, might have a val or other enhanced weapon but most people are lazy and have not bothered to do such since imbueing came out and we all stored our old val stuff in the bank. There are hardly lots of players who have DP, there are some but lots is more desciptive of the afkers at the bank. Tamers hardly factor in anymore as only a chump brings a dragon/mare/beetle/whatever to a fight and we all know that if I managed to die to that set up I was either playing 5 years ago or was a total moron last night but either way I could care a less.

You didn't tell me the multitude of ways a person could hit for other damage, you told me two.

I mentioned one spell for poison because there is only one spell that hits for that damage, how on earth a leet caster as yourself doesn't know that is beyond me. I also said that I'm not overly concerned with a tick as I carry enough pots to cure it.

I don't recall you asking for a arena fight and, frankly, that is a place for chumps who don't leave the gate where nothing gets finished and lag would be your reasoning anyways though I guess you could offer a bet of 100 million cause that style of not paying up hasn't grown old.

While I hope that you take the time to do a bit of research into the game and what has changed, what helps you best and what makes a suit worth the effort I am now seeing that this isn't the case hence your struggle at defending the -mage weapon.

Again thanks for the insight but while I was once mistaken that you actually had a good handle upon what PvP really is I am now clearly seeing that you are one directional and can offer but limited thought and imput.

Because some people can be lazy with things, doesn't mean that everyone is, nor does it change the fact that real pvpers will take advantage of people typically having lower elemental resists.

Also I don't know what template you play, but a tamer can trump just about anything if you're talking 1v1.

Is multi more than one? Oh, then I did tell you more ways than one someone can deal poison damage.

Clearly you are unaware that the spell poison is not the ONLY spell that hits for poison damage. There's poison field, strangle, and poison strike. So you're wrong yet again.

The only reason why anyone would want to go to the arena is you can't cheat the rules, and the biggest factor is the no running. Also I don't offer big numbers, I do it for pvp. You are just chalked full of excuses not to fight, but again after the templates you've set up for me, and also the suit secrets you have, I 100% see why you wouldn't want to fight.

You've not posted any good counter points to anything I've said about mage weapons, see my signature as a prime example of how you need them and that is just one of many templates. But don't worry I won't tell you other templates that need it, I'm scared to see your hot fix template set up for pvp that will be missing resist and who knows what else!

Again, after your template and suit, clearly you don't have a handle on pvp but you think you do. I think we figured out where the problem is with you. It also explains why you don't want to step in the arena. I realize it would hurt your ego when you died really fast.

Well best of luck to you with those phenomenal suits and templates haha.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

But you´re trying to make it sound as if the damage on a cursed target is the mages "base" damage which is not true.
What happens is that you lose your increased damage and is now back to your normal damage output.

You know it and I know it.

So you're agreeing that the damage is indeed reduced 33% when a target removes curse vs a mage and dexers don't have this problem? Okay, good.

 

[Capt.E]

Has anyone who runs like 50 poison resist noticed that sometime spell plague hits for a crapload? Look up how the spell works. This is getting into a pissing match here. But the most damage you can do with curse and 60 resist is flamestrike. And it hits for around 47 with the correct gear and template. 47 is by no means overpowering. If you are letting someone chain flamestrike, you have bigger problems than curse.

 

[Tjalle]

The reason every mage casts it is because if they don't it reduces their damage by about 33%.

But you´re trying to make it sound as if the damage on a cursed target is the mages "base" damage which is not true.

This.

I understand what you´re trying to say, it´s just that it is, imo, poorly worded.

 

[LordDrago]

So you're agreeing that the damage is indeed reduced 33% when a target removes curse vs a mage and dexers don't have this problem? Okay, good.

Is that you Mr. Clinton?

In that case, there is not a reduction of 33%, but the addition of a 33% negative bonus.

 

[CovenantX]

Curse is fine and balanced the way it is, this is why Chivalry & Enchanted Apples exists.

Another thing is, Mages don't have anything like Armor-ignore do they? If they did Curse wouldn't be needed.

In reference to the OP, if you use your apple, of course a mage will curse you again... you just haven't adapted yet to enchanted apples *30 second cooldown? I assume you don't play without Apples & a Trapped box. (who does?) You wait until the mage drops explosion before you use your apple.

These are the kind of things that separate the good/bad Pvpers.

Edit: *Truth you're right. I put 60 seconds, because my favorite consumable (Shatter pots) have a 60 second cool-down lol just confusing the two =p

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Curse is fine and balanced the way it is, this is why Chivalry & Enchanted Apples exists.

Another thing is, Mages don't have anything like Armor-ignore do they? If they did Curse wouldn't be needed.

In reference to the OP, if you use your apple, of course a mage will curse you again... you just haven't adapted yet to enchanted apples 60 second cooldown? I assume you don't play without Apples & a Trapped box. (who does?) You wait until the mage drops explosion before you use your apple.

These are the kind of things that separate the good/bad Pvpers.

It went from 15 seconds to 30 seconds.

If that's too long there still are 4 other avenues that players can take.

Some players just seem to be mad that they can't handle playing a mage, and get upset when they die to them.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

This.

I understand what you´re trying to say, it´s just that it is, imo, poorly worded.

Not trying to say, what I did say. When someone apples curse the damage is reduced 33% for a mage. Cleary not poorly worded as you understood it a first time. However you're trying to split hairs over the syntax of the sentence based on which way you want to look at it? Very bizzare, however I said what I meant.

 

[SixUnder]

There are no mages in this game anymore.

Hence: if you carry a weapon, you are a hybrid.

All mages carry a weapon, unless they are insane in the brain and have wrestling.

Plus there are how many skills in mage templates these days?

necro/spell weave/mysticism etc.

If you carry a weapon you are not a mage, you are using a dexers ability and are now a hybrid. (benefitting from mageand warriors skills)

If you play mage 5, with no wrestling, i tip my hat to you.

with the skill cap changes you can have more skills, so those last 1 or 2 would have to be something like anatomy and or focus in modern times.

Find me anybody who is 6x120

magery
eval
med
resist
wrestle
anatomy

And i will bow down. Until then, mage spells aren't going to change for anyone.

 

[SixUnder]

You must not pvp too much if you don't understand why mages have to curse. If they don't any spell they cast under 6th circle won't even disrupt a dexers bandage to make it heal for less. Ergo a mage would never kill a skilled dexer without curse. Mages have this problem that warriors dont. It's that their damage is reduced by 33% unless they cast a spell. A spell that currently has 5 ways to get rid of it.

Again you don't read very well. You don't HAVE to have those skills, nor do you need to consume them with properties as you're crying to claim. You CAN have any of those skills/items. Additionally if you do it right you and have high enough karma you can cast remove curse with JoaT. Neither of which require skill/items/properties.

My argument is rock solid and you have nothing to say about it. If you choose not to play a template that has any of those means to remove it, that's your business.

Faction aids- no one is putting a gun to your head to use them. If you think curse is as bad as WoD as you're making it out to be then it would behoove you to join factions for access to an item that clearly you NEED.

You claim you don't like curse mysticism is an option, did I say you have to get it? No. Is it an option? Yes.

Chiv - You don't even need the skill for this. Just being a human with JoaT you can cast it if you have high karma. Also you don't need FC or Items going into this. You can run your normal set up and still cast it. It's that simple.

Apples- maybe use them smart and they are extremely efficient. I won't tell you how to use them if you haven't figured that out, but I will say a well timed apple and hit fireball can make trying to kill a dexer more difficult 10fold.

Talisman - I'm not sure whats so silly about putting a talisman on and remove curse and taking it off. Is it because that's too much work for you? If so that's your problem not everyone else.

So 5 ways you can remove curse if you hate it, 3 of which you can do if you're a human, 4 if you're a human in factions.

Lastly I like how you do this, where you ignore things after I point something out about what you said. For example you had nothing to say about Armor Ignore being "cast" when I said if thats the case it could be disrupted with 1st circle ie weaken ect. It's not the same at all and a dexer doesn't have to do anything so that their damage hits harder. You would be singing a different tune if you fought a mystic for example and everytime you wanted to armor ignore them for 35 and have your spells hit as hard as they can if you had to cast something on them first THEN go offense.

No reason for the change especially with 5 ways to remove curse.

your post makes no sense.
your so called 5 ways...
faction aids are timered, useless after you use the first one, forces you to carry more normal, and then reduces the time to recover from other stacked effects
chiv-seriously? i have 16,000 long terms +, no time for that jazz of karma gain
apples- using them smart is fine anyone can do that. but when severly outnumbered, useless
talisman- yeah ok. but the time you take your current talisman off and put a remove curse one on, everyone attacking you will have hit you 5 timeswith their weapons or casted numerous spells.

I been doing this a long time, the ways of removing curses VS. getting cursed is not in the same ball park, not even in the same city.

casting time/mana/variety of curses vs. removing a curse is one of the most unbalanced things in ultima

 

[WildWobble]

ok so lets clairify something! curse lowers resists it neither increases or decreases dmg, the dmg taken is the same just calculated diffrently with curse on, a mages fireball will allways have the same dmg its the player being hit by said fball that determins the dmg taken based on resists. so lets stop this 33% bs and base dmg ext your base dmg is allways the same. however mages do get sdi penaltys from some weapon specials in which case base dmg will be reduced!
how is curse overpowered if you know how to setup macros a mage will never get it to stick so learn how to play before you come on the boards and start wingeing!! i suck as a mage and could care less if it did get a nerf but I can't see your points! though this sort of topic does come up from time to time and every time it seems like the noobs and the uninformed allways just want to hop out from under their bridge and add to their post count! Heres a real solution to all your problems in pvp read read and read some more also a little understanding of math helps! or Quit that works also but posts like this one are useless!

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

LOL. Clearly I have missed the boat loads of people whom you see fighting on a daily basis. The piles of necros waiting to jump me at every bend and a gaggle of archers swapping out quivers after adding up my resists. A person might, might have a val or other enhanced weapon but most people are lazy and have not bothered to do such since imbueing came out and we all stored our old val stuff in the bank. There are hardly lots of players who have DP, there are some but lots is more desciptive of the afkers at the bank. Tamers hardly factor in anymore as only a chump brings a dragon/mare/beetle/whatever to a fight and we all know that if I managed to die to that set up I was either playing 5 years ago or was a total moron last night but either way I could care a less.

You didn't tell me the multitude of ways a person could hit for other damage, you told me two.

I mentioned one spell for poison because there is only one spell that hits for that damage, how on earth a leet caster as yourself doesn't know that is beyond me. I also said that I'm not overly concerned with a tick as I carry enough pots to cure it.

I don't recall you asking for a arena fight and, frankly, that is a place for chumps who don't leave the gate where nothing gets finished and lag would be your reasoning anyways though I guess you could offer a bet of 100 million cause that style of not paying up hasn't grown old.

While I hope that you take the time to do a bit of research into the game and what has changed, what helps you best and what makes a suit worth the effort I am now seeing that this isn't the case hence your struggle at defending the -mage weapon.

Again thanks for the insight but while I was once mistaken that you actually had a good handle upon what PvP really is I am now clearly seeing that you are one directional and can offer but limited thought and imput.

Seriously Picus, you cant make the mistake of trying to reason with Truth & Covenant.

In my last thread about Disarm & Resisting Spells, Truth twice said that omen/para is not really an issue because there are no necros pvping anymore - "Necromancers are not the most common, you don't see them in pvp often" His own words.

Yet right in this thread he says to you that you are building your suit wrong if you dont make it Necro-proof - "on top of it if you're fighting a smart necro they'll corpse for sure. Then you have strangle and poison strike which both do decent damage"

Which is it Mr. Truth? Are Necros a factor in pvp or not lol?

You contradict yourself so bad it is a joke bud.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

your post makes no sense.
your so called 5 ways...
faction aids are timered, useless after you use the first one, forces you to carry more normal, and then reduces the time to recover from other stacked effects
chiv-seriously? i have 16,000 long terms +, no time for that jazz of karma gain
apples- using them smart is fine anyone can do that. but when severly outnumbered, useless
talisman- yeah ok. but the time you take your current talisman off and put a remove curse one on, everyone attacking you will have hit you 5 timeswith their weapons or casted numerous spells.

I been doing this a long time, the ways of removing curses VS. getting cursed is not in the same ball park, not even in the same city.

casting time/mana/variety of curses vs. removing a curse is one of the most unbalanced things in ultima

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, there are 5 ways to remove curse currently.

Also negative karma caps, and you can go positive easily. It's not like if you have 1000000 counts you can never go positive. That's not how karma works.

So everything is useless to you? Okay then don't remove curse, that's also fine. If you think all of it is useless and want to stay cursed no one is going to force your hand at removing it.

Actually it's just the opposite. A necro for example can spend lots of mana and time putting multiple curses on a target, and they can all be removed instantly with no mana cost involved. The necro would have to re apply everything all while hoping they don't get hit[and hit delay spelled vs almost all dexers] so they can re apply all their spells before it can be removed again.

Also a mage weapon isn't hybrid. You don't get dexer abilities from it. Just because someone has a mage weapon doesn't mean they get specials, and bandages suddenly.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Seriously Picus, you cant make the mistake of trying to reason with Truth & Covenant.

In my last thread about Disarm & Resisting Spells, Truth twice said that omen/para is not really an issue because there are no necros pvping anymore - "Necromancers are not the most common, you don't see them in pvp often" His own words.

Yet right in this thread he says to you that you are building your suit wrong if you dont make it Necro-proof - "on top of it if you're fighting a smart necro they'll corpse for sure. Then you have strangle and poison strike which both do decent damage"

Which is it Mr. Truth? Are Necros a factor in pvp or not lol?

You contradict yourself so bad it is a joke bud.

The problem stems from your reading comprehension. I didn't say they don't exist I said they aren't the most common, as I've stated before mystics are.

So why would someone not take the time to make their suit good vs all templates? Necros aren't the only thing that lower resists, on top of which as I have stated before they aren't the only thing in game that deal elemental damage.

I never said necros aren't a factor since you're bringing it up twice in the same post, again they are far less common than mystics.

I don't contradict myself at all, you just think this game is all or nothing, and then you don't read whats written.

Then again you think that instant spells break para for dexers so you are clueless in many facets of this game. You should know basic things like this when you almost exclusively play a blue dexer.

 

[CovenantX]

Seriously Picus, you cant make the mistake of trying to reason with Truth & Covenant.

How is that? Is it because we know we're right ? Removing a Mages Curse is like removing a Dexers ability to use special attacks. Why do you think dexers are always better in pvm? They have the only thing that can bypass resist... (Armor Ignore).

Curse is one thing that levels the playing field.

Just to be clear I don't even know who Truth is in-game, I'm just thankful to see an obviously experienced pvper trying to defend what is NOT wrong with pvp.

 

[Picus of Napa]

AI does roughly the same damage as a FS, equal trade off for a similar mana cost. DS is the real winner in the dexxer damage area.

 

[CovenantX]

AI does roughly the same damage as a FS, equal trade off for a similar mana cost. DS is the real winner in the dexxer damage area.

Agreed, FS is interrupt-able and AI can miss. DS is balanced because of all the different skills you need to make it effective, not to mention DS can still fail at 120 ninjitsu and it also takes mana.

Dexers are at a disadvantage, Curse is not the reason why.

IMO the main reason Melee Dexers are at a disadvantage is because of the need to be within 1 tile of your target, AND the damage of melee weapons isn't enough to compensate for that.
Ranged weapons do not have this problem.