Devs Grab Your New Ship's Rudder and...

[RavenWinterHawk]

Come on Devs... I am hoping the players here help you all see the ship is on the wrong course.



It is time to change the direction of the game. UO isn't doomed but to this notion of charging for this and that. It seems like that is the priority of the game. No not charging (making money is fine) but concentrating on creating items that can be charged for... We want more.


What do I mean? We want exploration, adventure, random events, improvements and simplicity in PvP, and general game excitement.

What is with all this charging, a few months ago or so you sold dyes and imbuing thingy.

This week a planter and chest of sending...


Is that were this game is headed. Feeding our packratism. Expand housing lock downs by 20%. Selling us items that really are useless. Sure it is our right to buy or not buy. Im with you to make some cash for the company. But it seems that is the priority vs game play.


Don't lose focus on the above of what most players want and what would attract players to the game. ADVENTURE. Dang good adventure.

No quests, no gifts, no purchases...


Bag of sending, chest of sending... why not make a SWORD of sending where everything upon death is sent from the monsters corpse to your house into the the MAGICAL chest of reception. Where all the items are sorted by intensities.

Come on.

 

[Pinco]

well, in last house of common there are many players asking for more items for sale on uogamecodes, and now they are adding more...

about the kind of items to add, well there are unlimited options and lots of ideas here in the forums, however the new items presented last week are just 2 little extras to the 2 new tiles set for home and they are not so bad since you are buying a tile set and NOT just those items

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

well, in last house of common there are many players asking for more items for sale on uogamecodes, and now they are adding more...

about the kind of items to add, well there are unlimited options and lots of ideas here in the forums, however the new items presented last week are just 2 little extras to the 2 new tiles set for home and they are not so bad since you are buying a tile set and NOT just those items

I guess. How many are really asking? Like I said, Im not against it. Ill buy some probably with gold once they hit vendors. Too much gold nothing to buy.

Im just saying don't make this the course of UO. Give the game play some love.

 

[Pinco]

I guess. How many are really asking? Like I said, Im not against it. Ill buy some probably with gold once they hit vendors. Too much gold nothing to buy.

Im just saying don't make this the course of UO. Give the game play some love.

is not a bad course... I mean they are adding things that are not essential so you can buy them if you like or you can live well without.
If they starts to add more useful things like new weapons or armors for example, this things can became essentials for certain templates and people will be forced to buy it...

 

[Trebr Drab]

well, in last house of common there are many players asking for more items for sale on uogamecodes, and now they are adding more...

about the kind of items to add, well there are unlimited options and lots of ideas here in the forums, however the new items presented last week are just 2 little extras to the 2 new tiles set for home and they are not so bad since you are buying a tile set and NOT just those items

There's a risk involved when a company starts listening to a set of hardcore players who may not represent the player base at large.

And this is a huge problem with MMORPGs everywhere, in my opinion.

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Hail Sosarians,

I shall not try to speak for the OP, However, my take on their Thread is as follows:

Unless Players/Payers are induced to pay their Monthly Subscription Fees, no one will be around to BUY EA's items!!!

Moreover, though I have PlAYed for 14 years and Hope to PlAY for 35 more, Sosaria has an Aging Population which often means fixed income retirees and death. We need an affordable experience, a FUN experience, and we NEED younger PlAYers to sustain Sosaria if I am to have any Hope of PlAYing for 35 more years.

Priority ONE should be to achieve an EXPANDING PlAYer base composed of NEW and Returning PlAYers. Priority TWO should be elimination of cheats, exploits, and bugs. Prioity THREE should be enhanced Content to keep the experience FUN, challenging, and rewarding.

Those would INCREASE and PERPETUATE Revenue. Sellable Items should be "icing on the cake," for ala carte buyers and NOT necessities nor seemingly endless Boosters on TOP of our Subscription Fees.

I doubt boredom or any other thing will force me from Sosaria ...EXCEPT for COST! Rising COSTS during declining real world economic periods and IGNORING fixed incomes and death LIKELY may doom Sosaria unless EA/Mythic/Biowhatever is very saavy AND careful!

I offer these comments as One of an ever DECLINING group, Folks who have PAYED for 14 years without interruption and income and death aside wants to PAY for many more years. But it MUST be AFFORDABLE and FUN, or I Honestly cannot imagine Sosaria surviving.

I very much want to hear what other PlAYers think.

Let the Conversation Continue, and PLEASE Dev's, Listen UP and Maybe even Chime in some.

An SoS

p.s. CAPS for Emphasis, not indicating Shouting

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

There's a risk involved when a company starts listening to a set of hardcore players who may not represent the player base at large.

And this is a huge problem with MMORPGs everywhere, in my opinion.

I agree! It is the easy way out and it is short sighted. You think you are given to a wide base. Your not.

I mean I am fine with purchases. It is needed for business.

But Old or New Players will come for the game play. Not the new tile set you can buy.

The core of the game is at risk. The realm needs reason for exploration and adventuring. Give us reason to go out alone, in group, to meet up... and we will. That breeds growth.

Or we can sit in our 60% upgrade storage house and decorate.

 

[Pinco]

I agree! It is the easy way out and it is short sighted. You think you are given to a wide base. Your not.

I mean I am fine with purchases. It is needed for business.

But Old or New Players will come for the game play. Not the new tile set you can buy.

The core of the game is at risk. The realm needs reason for exploration and adventuring. Give us reason to go out alone, in group, to meet up... and we will. That breeds growth.

Or we can sit in our 60% upgrade storage house and decorate.

new quests, new mobs, new thing to do around soon or later became old and you'll need more and more.

Here it is the right point of view:
if you play cards there still be 52 and you still play because you have fun in use this cards without the need of adding new ones. Then why a HUGE game like UO needs always new thing to keep going when 52 cards still works by hundreds of years (excluding gabling reasons of course...)?
Find the answer to solve the problem

 

[longshanks]

i fail to see what is wrong with this. i think they should sell gold as well. i would much rather see ea financially supported for new market items rather than making some broker not affiliated with ea richer.

i think the forge tool was an excellent idea. here is something that is disposible and very useful to players. it cuts down gametime taken in putting together a great set of armor and lowers gold cost and time spent farming the ingredients necessary to put together such a suit.

i prefer these types of items over a raised flower bed but some others may prefer deco over combat so be it.

so far the items they have put up for sale are purely optional. you can play just fine without them. so i look at it as an enhancement to the game.

As long as they continue along this path i see no issue.

then only way i would see this needing to be changed is if they went with a ftp platform. than i could see an instance where they would offer items that would give u a clear advantage.

so far though this is not the case.

 

[longshanks]

something that would make sense would be a castle customization tool which would allow you to change the style of keep or castle that you can fit on that plot size. i think something like this would work as it is purely optional, would be sought after and can prevent castles throughout the land of resembling borg cubes.

 

[Vlaude]

something that would make sense would be a castle customization tool which would allow you to change the style of keep or castle that you can fit on that plot size. i think something like this would work as it is purely optional, would be sought after and can prevent castles throughout the land of resembling borg cubes.

+1 this idea

 

[Espilce]

something that would make sense would be a castle customization tool which would allow you to change the style of keep or castle that you can fit on that plot size. i think something like this would work as it is purely optional, would be sought after and can prevent castles throughout the land of resembling borg cubes.

+1 this idea

+2 yes yes yes - this is an insanely great idea!!!

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'd like to see the development rest of the game (new "free" content, bug fixes, effective anti-cheat measures, etc.) not come to a screeching halt while the micro transaction crap is foisted on us. (Two mini boosters + related pixelcrack)

"Booster content is meant to expand the game without damaging attention to the live audience." -Calvin Crowner, September 3, 2010 Producer's Update

So far, not a single booster has lived up to this.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

The difference between UO and a pack of cards...


I can control the rules to the cards and create.
UO is not a deck of 52 cards.


The idea is selling stuff is fine but you need to have a creative factor that is random and emersive.

Going to the same place for the same spawn for the same items is old.

I suggest 52 cards randomly placed in monster packs. When you put together poker sequences you can get prizes by turning them into NPC collectors.


Dont tell us the prizes. Have cards pop up randomly.


Just think about it.

 

[Trebr Drab]

The difference between UO and a pack of cards...


I can control the rules to the cards and create.
UO is not a deck of 52 cards.


The idea is selling stuff is fine but you need to have a creative factor that is random and emersive.

Going to the same place for the same spawn for the same items is old.

I suggest 52 cards randomly placed in monster packs. When you put together poker sequences you can get prizes by turning them into NPC collectors.


Dont tell us the prizes. Have cards pop up randomly.


Just think about it.

Cards? No, God no!
But what about pieces of artifacts? Assemblies like the Obsidian Statues/Busts. Only better in that you get things that aren't just a hued item. And animate or do things (sparklies, twirl, etc.)

 

[Trebr Drab]

I'd like to see the development rest of the game (new "free" content, bug fixes, effective anti-cheat measures, etc.) not come to a screeching halt while the micro transaction crap is foisted on us. (Two mini boosters + related pixelcrack)

"Booster content is meant to expand the game without damaging attention to the live audience." -Calvin Crowner, September 3, 2010 Producer's Update

So far, not a single booster has lived up to this.

That's the risk when companies go to cash shops. Everyone says "yeah, let them make money so they can make the game better". But, well, it may not work out that way completely. And this is why I always hated it. I'd prefer games make or break on their game play, rather than the additional shinies you can buy. Failing? Make it better.

But I can't stop the machine.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Cards? No, God no!
But what about pieces of artifacts? Assemblies like the Obsidian Statues/Busts. Only better in that you get things that aren't just a hued item. And animate or do things (sparklies, twirl, etc.)

agreed. I like your idea. These kind of ideas can be added. They should take time. Require trading. Build over time.

fished up too.

hacked out of a mine.


wait wait.... I hear "this is to hard what is the random spawn rate of the object pieces" "this favors scripters" "its unfair".... might as well just sell them.

 

[mjolnir131]

I'd like to see the development rest of the game (new "free" content, bug fixes, effective anti-cheat measures, etc.) not come to a screeching halt while the micro transaction crap is foisted on us. (Two mini boosters + related pixelcrack)

"Booster content is meant to expand the game without damaging attention to the live audience." -Calvin Crowner, September 3, 2010 Producer's Update

So far, not a single booster has lived up to this.

I'm sorry but High Sea's hit this mark dead on

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'm sorry but High Sea's hit this mark dead on

If that mark was a urinal cake in a men's room, maybe...

The HS booster caused ALL DEVELOPMENT not associated with it to STOP. It went from Alpha to Gold in three weeks and "shipped" with a laundry list of KNOWN crippling bugs. (See the beta board that was put up for it.)

Unsurprisingly, many of those bugs STILL exist 7 months after release.

The ONLY thing Mythic got right out of the gate with HS was the long-awaited upgrade to boat movement.

The quote from Cal said that these boosters wouldn't take away from the rest of the game. So far, they have. Instead of telling us about what they are working on to benefit the game as a whole, they give us snippets of what we can shell out more money for.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Cards? No, God no!
But what about pieces of artifacts? Assemblies like the Obsidian Statues/Busts. Only better in that you get things that aren't just a hued item. And animate or do things (sparklies, twirl, etc.)

agreed. I like your idea. These kind of ideas can be added. They should take time. Require trading. Build over time.

fished up too.

hacked out of a mine.


wait wait.... I hear "this is to hard what is the random spawn rate of the object pieces" "this favors scripters" "its unfair".... might as well just sell them.

Yes, the same pieces all from various things you do, whether hunting, fishing, mining, stealing from chests, treasure hunting, whatever, so we all can trade pieces and parts to get the final assemblies of antiquities.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Yes, the same pieces all from various things you do, whether hunting, fishing, mining, stealing from chests, treasure hunting, whatever, so we all can trade pieces and parts to get the final assemblies of antiquities.

Been playing RuneScape, Trebr?

That game has something exactly like that. Little stones you randomly get from various activities. When put together, the stones form a statue of a long-dead wizard (there's like 32(?) stones you have to get)

 

[Trebr Drab]

Yes, the same pieces all from various things you do, whether hunting, fishing, mining, stealing from chests, treasure hunting, whatever, so we all can trade pieces and parts to get the final assemblies of antiquities.

Been playing RuneScape, Trebr?

That game has something exactly like that. Little stones you randomly get from various activities. When put together, the stones form a statue of a long-dead wizard (there's like 32(?) stones you have to get)

No, I haven't. My son and his friend did, but I wasn't aware of this. That actually sounds pretty cool.
Add a saying/inscription that's relevant to the game onto the statues. What would be cool is clues to a long lost thing of importance (treasure, rare item, new spell) and it gains a boatload of meaning. But I'd settle for little lore tidbits.
And do a bunch of other items at the same time, too.

An idea like this can be pretty simple, or very deep.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

The need for exploration is great, but we must have a reason to explore. Or, in UO's case...re-explore.


Each facet (with the notable exception of Ter Mur) has been mapped to the Nth degree. There's few places I haven't been yet, and that's mainly due to apathy.


MMO + Apathy = Bad



A dungeon revamp that includes puzzles and such (no, not a rehash the Khaldun or Underworld ones) would go a long way to helping with this.

One thing Mythic should...ahem...borrow...from RuneScape is the random event system. You can be just walking around or buying something from a shop and suddenly an NPC appears and whisks you away to a little mini game with useful prizes. While it can be annoying at times, the games are quick and generally amusing.


This could also be a good way to interrupt scripters... Scriptbot X is out strip mining and gets nabbed by a random event = one less bot for a while.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I don't like the idea of being whisked off somewhere, at least not in a mini-game sort of way like that. Dragons doing that and dropping you on a mountain top could be really cool, if you survive.

But I do like the idea of random encounters. doing this with sets of random encounters designed for areas, such as dungeons, mountain passes, forests, could add a lot to the game.

Somewhere along the line, MMORPG developers got the idea that predictability was a good thing. It's boring.

And yes, you're right. There needs to be a reason to explore.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

as it is right now... I hit a wall.

Ive created, recreated, restarted, xsharded and developed charactures.

I still kill monsters with basic stuff. You dont need more.

There isnt anything I can buy.

I have great theme homes and vendors. And run a nice place for merchants.

But when my character steps out of the house... there is really little to do.

Beat a monsters with 500000 hit points is silly. Come on DEVS.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I don't like the idea of being whisked off somewhere, at least not in a mini-game sort of way like that. Dragons doing that and dropping you on a mountain top could be really cool, if you survive.

Well, in RuneScape, you get 'ported back to the same place you where when you were taken. Some places, like dungeons and PvP areas, these events don't occur.

However, these are just one type the Devs could add. There should be several types so everyone can do something they might enjoy.

But I do like the idea of random encounters. doing this with sets of random encounters designed for areas, such as dungeons, mountain passes, forests, could add a lot to the game.

Encounters a la the way the monster fights worked in the pre-Ultima VI days? You were traveling and all-of-a-sudden were surrounded by monsters? That could be interesting, if the mobs were scaled properly to locale and character ability.

However, realistically, whether the random event happen right where you are or whisks you away for a few mins, the result is the same. Something unexpected and (hopefully) fun that distracts you for a few minutes.

Plus, not everything should be combat oriented. Lots of chars can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...

 

[Trebr Drab]

I don't like the idea of being whisked off somewhere, at least not in a mini-game sort of way like that. Dragons doing that and dropping you on a mountain top could be really cool, if you survive.

Well, in RuneScape, you get 'ported back to the same place you where when you were taken. Some places, like dungeons and PvP areas, these events don't occur.

However, these are just one type the Devs could add. There should be several types so everyone can do something they might enjoy.

But I do like the idea of random encounters. doing this with sets of random encounters designed for areas, such as dungeons, mountain passes, forests, could add a lot to the game.

Encounters a la the way the monster fights worked in the pre-Ultima VI days? You were traveling and all-of-a-sudden were surrounded by monsters? That could be interesting, if the mobs were scaled properly to locale and character ability.

However, realistically, whether the random event happen right where you are or whisks you away for a few mins, the result is the same. Something unexpected and (hopefully) fun that distracts you for a few minutes.

Plus, not everything should be combat oriented. Lots of chars can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...

Well, see, some of what you're talking about smacks of "gamey" systems like "scalability" and "instances". Those sorts of things are anti-worldly, and feel wrong to a world. It's good, even excellent game design. Works great in a single player game or an EQ/WoW Clone, where the entire game is divied up according to your level. But it just isn't right if you want to "create worlds".

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Well, see, some of what you're talking about smacks of "gamey" systems like "scalability" and "instances". Those sorts of things are anti-worldly, and feel wrong to a world. It's good, even excellent game design. Works great in a single player game or an EQ/WoW Clone, where the entire game is divied up according to your level. But it just isn't right if you want to "create worlds".

Well, you can't have a group of balrons and greater dragons randomly pop up when a crafter runs through snake pass. Do you really want to see the billion threads whining about that the random encounters are too hard?

While yes, we want UO to feel/look/act like a world, we also have to remember that it IS a game. Games should be fun the majority of the time.

The UO does have 'levels,' we just don't call them that. We call them neophyte, novice, apprentice, journeyman, expert, adept, master, grandmaster, elder, and legendary. A journeyman swordsperson couldn't take on a greater dragon, but a legendary one could. Randomly forced combat encounters must scale, or we might as well be back to absurd "boss" monsters like the renowned ratmen (low ability to damage the player, but ridiculously high hitpoints).

What we want has to mesh with realistically programable and playable encounters that everyone can enjoy - Everyone from a bumbling newb to a leet uber-geared vet.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Yeah, I know. Thank you AoS. This is exactly why I've ranted about that for so long. You can't have regular Dragons anymore for the top end, and you can't have Greater Dragons for the lower. Divide the players, divide the world. Because this is a game, not a world, and all the players must win.

Now I know that UO has always had some division due to "levels". The point is that it's gone too far, and now starts to play like WoW. And this leads to suggestions like yours, that fit into that whole level grind for game play. And with this, even well established players can't "compete" with the top end and have to be divided out. And that's what's wrong with MMORPGs. It can't be about what happens in the world, it's got to be spread out and zoned off. The world as a world doesn't matter. Only your "level" matters. So your story isn't the same as another's story. And those stories can no longer run freely in the world. They have to be "designed" and manipulated accordingly. Meaningful content is taken out of the world and placed in zones, in "instances", and thus loses meaning to the world. And that's why it turns into level grind for game play. Because the levels become more important than the world and whats happening in it. And what's happening in it becomes meaningless.

And that leads to boredom. Like we have now, calling for more of the same content because these other ideas don't work, and calling for new separations to the players, and the world, in a spiral that just doesn't seem to end.

But in the end, you are right. You are absolutely right. Because UO has already gone there. UO is already F!ed. And any content must now be "gamey", useless to anything meaningful in a "worldly" sort of way.

And I'm sorry for going off. It's not you, it's the game and the situation.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

A somewhat nihilistic take on the matter

I wasn't really talking about instances, Mythic has proven they don't handle those well.

Okay, say Joe Newb is walking through Snakes Pass north of Britain. Say there is a "random encounter trigger" there. He unwittingly activates it. He's not taken out of the pass to some secluded instance, it happens right there in the pass between the houses.

So, if things aren't scaled, he gets 2 balrons and a greater dragon. They tear him a new one before he has a chance to soil himself. He's dead and has no chance of recovering his corpse which contains resources he's worked hard to gather. He tries for help in global chat and gets laughed at, and since its 1am there aren't enough people on who'd be interested in helping. Joe is screwed, he's upset that his time is wasted. Will Joe want to play UO again?

If things are scaled, he gets 3 regular demons and a drake. He manages to best the demons with his meager combat ability, but gets temporarily chased off by the drake. He comes back and manages to best it... The drake has a small locked box on it. Whats inside the box? Now he has to figure out a way to open it...

Say Jane Vet walks through Snakes pass later that day. She gets the full-sized encounter and barely manages to succeed in besting the balrons and the greater. She gets a locked chest off the dragon...

Have the chests openable through a puzzle or through an appropriate level lock picking. Random things could be in the containers. Perhaps an arti, rare resources, rare deco, a reward plaque with the players on it, etc.


Scalable doesn't mean the world is spirialing into the abyss, it means people are given something they can potentially handle. This leads to happy players with less potential for whining. Heck, if people are partied the mobs could increase in number.

People want risk vs reward. But this doesn't mean that uber mobs are going to spring out at you if you dare to step out of your house, it means there is potential risk with potential rewards. For some this is PvP, for others its high level PvM, and for some it could be finding a really hard puzzle from a random encounter.

 

[Trebr Drab]

A somewhat nihilistic take on the matter

I wasn't really talking about instances, Mythic has proven they don't handle those well.

Okay, say Joe Newb is walking through Snakes Pass north of Britain. Say there is a "random encounter trigger" there. He unwittingly activates it. He's not taken out of the pass to some secluded instance, it happens right there in the pass between the houses.

So, if things aren't scaled, he gets 2 balrons and a greater dragon. They tear him a new one before he has a chance to soil himself. He's dead and has no chance of recovering his corpse which contains resources he's worked hard to gather. He tries for help in global chat and gets laughed at, and since its 1am there aren't enough people on who'd be interested in helping. Joe is screwed, he's upset that his time is wasted. Will Joe want to play UO again?

If things are scaled, he gets 3 regular demons and a drake. He manages to best the demons with his meager combat ability, but gets temporarily chased off by the drake. He comes back and manages to best it... The drake has a small locked box on it. Whats inside the box? Now he has to figure out a way to open it...

Say Jane Vet walks through Snakes pass later that day. She gets the full-sized encounter and barely manages to succeed in besting the balrons and the greater. She gets a locked chest off the dragon...

Have the chests openable through a puzzle or through an appropriate level lock picking. Random things could be in the containers. Perhaps an arti, rare resources, rare deco, a reward plaque with the players on it, etc.


Scalable doesn't mean the world is spirialing into the abyss, it means people are given something they can potentially handle. This leads to happy players with less potential for whining. Heck, if people are partied the mobs could increase in number.

People want risk vs reward. But this doesn't mean that uber mobs are going to spring out at you if you dare to step out of your house, it means there is potential risk with potential rewards. For some this is PvP, for others its high level PvM, and for some it could be finding a really hard puzzle from a random encounter.

And what happens when one group level springs an encounter tailored for them, and another walks into it?

It won't work. Sadly, UO is zoned already. I forgot how it is when I posted those ideas.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

And what happens when one group level springs an encounter tailored for them, and another walks into it?

Same as what happens when someone walks into a champ spawn or a renowned spawn. Can't really help that, sadly.

One thing they could do is set it so only the person/party who triggered the encounter could defeat the mobs...which would then make it harder for people to get help if they were overwhelmed (unless it was just healer support)

However, this is where over thinking happens and an idea gets bogged down under its own weight.

It won't work. Sadly, UO is zoned already. I forgot how it is when I posted those ideas.

Real Life is zoned too. Kids are kept in certain places and not allowed to go to others. You know where the "bad" parts of your town are and either avoid them or take extra precautions when traveling there.

Zones aren't all bad, they do serve a purpose. The dungeons could be considered "zoned," Covetous is definately easier than Hythloth or Destard. Again, this IS a game - not a functional realistic world simulator. As much as we would all like it, the technology simply doesn't exist (and the likelihood Mythic could successfully code for it IF it did exist is not very high)

 

[Trebr Drab]

Na, it can be done. And while there's some complication to designing anything, it's not that complicated at its core. It just takes a willingness to think differently and a desire to actually do it this different way, and the goal to present the game as a world, with lots of fun elements to it based on that design instead of a single player game design.