[Fishing] DEVS: Can you please reveal the "brackets" of the fishing rewards?

[SashaSeeks]

Can we please have the brackets revealed for the fishing quest rewards?

It was mentioned that there is some overlap in the catagories or brackets, but was it intended to give out cat 1 rewards for a cat 4 size order? Such as recieveing the same reward of lava poles/traps for orders of :

Just 10 crab = lava pole/trap

or a larger order such as:
20 fred
20 cobia
10 uncommon
20 demon trout
20 cutthroat
15 dark fish
= lava pole/trap (would assume this order to be at least cat 3 or 4)

We are simply wondering if this in intended.

Also can you please explain or verify how the trap fish are weighted or pointed. Mark Mythic claimed that they are weighted the same as deepwater fish, but that is not what we are seeing. We are seeing results of them being weighted the same as shallow water fish.

We are seeing HUGE variations in the rewards for large size orders, not just "some overlap" but a "large overlap".

 

[Cirno]

I don't think it would be insurmountable to work out these brackets for ourselves.

Even though it's apparently not as stated, I think it would be safe to say that crabs are worth as much as shallow fish.
If the code is like a case statement, then since crabs can come from shallow water, maybe it doesn't even get down to crabs in the list?
The bait is a good indicator of point value, so whether it's right or wrong for crabs, we know what it is.

Maybe each of the 4 categories contains a power scroll, 1-2-3-4 being 105-110-115-120.
If not the bait types and books will probably be limited to single groups.
So, with enough data collected, patterns can be found.
That's how we did it in the old days

 

[Lady Tia]

I have collected data and I can see nothing but the amount of baits making sense. I recieved a 10 PS from this:

King Crab 20
Spiney Lob 10
Cape Cod 10
Mahi Mahi 15
Yellow Perch 10
Lurker Fish 10

Imagine my excitement when I received this order:

Dungeness 10
King crab 20
yellow perch 15
Orc Bass 10
Crag Snappper 20
Lurker Fish 15
Which yielded Crystal Fish Bait 90

The RNG hates me. I've received 5 +5 PS and one +10. *le sigh*

 

[SashaSeeks]

I don't think it would be insurmountable to work out these brackets for ourselves.

Even though it's apparently not as stated, I think it would be safe to say that crabs are worth as much as shallow fish.
If the code is like a case statement, then since crabs can come from shallow water, maybe it doesn't even get down to crabs in the list?
The bait is a good indicator of point value, so whether it's right or wrong for crabs, we know what it is.

Maybe each of the 4 categories contains a power scroll, 1-2-3-4 being 105-110-115-120.
If not the bait types and books will probably be limited to single groups.
So, with enough data collected, patterns can be found.
That's how we did it in the old days

The rewards just don't seem to fit into any particular brackets, and thus is the reason for the post....

I've logged probably well over 1000 quests, and frankly most of it does not make any kind of sense as far as being able to put into neat little brackets. I have over 100 lava traps, prob close to 150 lava poles, have 125 rare books, that are stored in the house the rest I am currently throwing away, I'm up to close to 5000 yellow tail barracuda baits, have recieved around 30 110 ps, made my origianal 110 ps from 105s, I have collected 3 115 ps, and who knows how many 105 scrolls...

Still most of the way the rewards come out do not make sense, granted you can tell how much bait you might recieve from adding up the fishes, but getting lava poles from a 10 point order to over 117 point order makes no sense. I have recieved the low end baits such as yellow tail cudda bait anywhere from a quatity of 2 to 95. It seems that the medium rare baits start around the 50 point area. The more rare fish baits don't come in until 100 points or more. (When talking about baits I'm useing the "fishermens pointing system" not what Mark Mythic said they should be...)

I have found no neat way of putting things into brackets. Seems you do not have a chance to get a good reward unless over 100 points, and it would be nice to have the points on the crabs fixed or verifed. If the system is only counting crabs at half their value that would have a huge affect on the rewards you pull. (Which seems to be the case at least in calcing how many baits you will recieve, if bait is the roll.)

It would be nice to know that rolling a lava trap/pole for 117+ point order is intended or if it is simply the "wa wa waaaa, you lose roll", as this can be pulled on a 10 point order.

 

[pacific cruiser]

Cirno im looking over at my wifes puter and she has.. im not kidding a stack about 1" tall of copy paper filled with nothing except quest. shes is one smart cookie and i have watched in dismay her turning in 100 plus point orders to orders valued at 120 points to see her get a lava lobster trap or lava fishing poleand she been working on trying to figure out those brackets till she finally said im done...does she stop... nope keeps grinding away and every quest she gets over 100 points still gets as excited as the 1st one she gotten months ago...but still no 120....

 

[Cirno]

How much sense the data makes, I think, would be up to the degree of overlap on the brackets (and whether it's working as intended, which we should assume it is, since if it isn't then even any developer answer would be wrong).

To an extent, you can make a lot of progress just using the baits received.
If the different baits are restricted by category, then you can get a sense of the scale of points that bait fits in.
For example, consider a category one bait. Assumedly, the minimum charges for one of those would be proportional to the minimum possible points of any order, while from the maximum charges anyone gets for that particular bait, you can estimate the upper bound of that category (until you can be sure that you've found the maximum value, there's a chance it will be higher). Then, in a similar manner, you can predict a minimum and maximum value for baits that don't fit in that category. Over not a lot of time, you should notice consistencies in the data.

The larger the overlap is, the more chaotic it would seem to make the observations.
If it were me, I think I'd have put the overlap in the area of 25-33.3% (although an overlap of over 50% would be evil).

I can try to do what I was explaining above.
If anyone would like to send me any data they've collected on the individual baits they've been awarded, I can prove myself either right, or an idiot

 

[popps]

I've logged probably well over 1000 quests, and frankly most of it does not make any kind of sense as far as being able to put into neat little brackets. I have over 100 lava traps, prob close to 150 lava poles, have 125 rare books, that are stored in the house the rest I am currently throwing away, I'm up to close to 5000 yellow tail barracuda baits, have recieved around 30 110 ps, made my origianal 110 ps from 105s, I have collected 3 115 ps, and who knows how many 105 scrolls...

How many hours of active fishing does that translate into, in order to be able to fill up those many quests if I may ask ??

It must be an enormous number of hours spent fishing...........

Perhaps, just perhaps, it might be more efficient to spend those many hours doing else in UO, gain much gold and just buy the 120 fishing powerscroll ?

Just wondering.......

 

[SashaSeeks]

How many hours of active fishing does that translate into, in order to be able to fill up those many quests if I may ask ??

It must be an enormous number of hours spent fishing...........

Perhaps, just perhaps, it might be more efficient to spend those many hours doing else in UO, gain much gold and just buy the 120 fishing powerscroll ?

Just wondering.......

Yep it certainly would be more efficient to have bought a scroll as far as time spent fishing vs time spent making gold. I have plenty of gold and could buy a scroll. Soon I may even have enough scrolls to bind into a 120, lol. I just want to see what it takes to get one by doing the quests, and try to figure out the system. The system as I see it could definately use some tweaking. Some people tend to have luck with the rng, I am not one of those people, and this whole questing thing seems to run strickly off rng.

As far as hours go fishing and questing, lets just say lots, since day 1 when high seas started.

 

[Basara]

Here's what we are currently guessing:

Known Data:


Quests have point values of 5 to 360, though quests would have to be abandoned for a 5 point quest to occur. Quest sizes are based on the number of fish types you've filled quests for in the past, though the particulars were not given (would appear to be based on the percentage of types catchable that have been on filled quests, instead of the raw number of types caught). So, someone who's filled quests for only 10 types of fish, for example, has a much lower chance at 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 line quests than someone that has filled quests for 25 types of fish.

Point Values:
Shallow Water Fish: 1 point each
Crustaceans (lobsters & crabs): BUGGED. Currently count as 1 point each, but are supposed to be worth 2 points each.
Deep Water Fish: 2 points each
Dungeon Fish: 3 points each.

4 Brackets.

Each Bracket has 4 items in it, determined randomly at time of reward. Bounds of brackets are unknown.

Bracket 1: 5 points to unknown.

Possible rewards:
A. Cup of Bait for recipe-usable fish, with the charges equal to the Quest Point Value divided by 2. In other words, a 30 point quest that gives a bait reward, will have the bait contain 15 uses.
B. Lava Fishing Gear (Lava Fishing Pole or Lava Lobster Trap)
C. Book detailing types of uncommon (well, common to high-level fishers) fish. One of Four types determined randomly, with Book 3 being much more rare (might be Bracket 2 reward).
D. Power Scroll of Fishing, 105. (there MIGHT be a rare chance of a 110)

Conjecture:
From this point on, we are taking reported data and making guesses, since we have not been informed further.

Brackets 2 through 4: (unknown to unknown).
Only things known for certain:
a. Dungeon Fish are added to possible quest types at 106 skill.
b. However, something screwy happens at 105 skill, where the Quest sizes take a nosedive (possibly from the Dungeon fish being added to the pool at 106 skill - and the 105/106 disparity being from changes to the quest system not changing every spot that should have been changed). This disappears as you catch more and more types of dungeon fish and put them into quest crates.

Possible rewards
A. Cup of Bait (as above). Currently, it is unknown whether the rarest fish type baits come from doing higher point value Quests, or simply from having higher reputation with the Fishmongers. Typically, both go up about the same time.
B. Power Scrolls (110 and higher - unknown if values tied to Bracket, tied to Reputation, tied to current skill/skill cap, or if there's randomness involved)
C. Books (Books 5 & 6 added, Book 3 MIGHT be Bracket 2 instead of Bracket 1)
D. Lava Gear


Repeat, these are GUESSES based on dev comments cross-referenced with raw data.