Debate on Free Play

[Curtis Jones]

Hello all,

I have returned to the game to see how things are, and the "free play" really enticed me to come back and check things out. I played regularly, with subscription from Jan 2003 to around mid Sept 05. Things have changed, its rare to see any of the names I remember but instead see a bunch of new names which is great for the game. My only only debate is the free play. I dont see why skilling should not be allowed or making money. I don't like to compare this game to Second Life, but I think the concept should be the same. Pay to have/own property (this is how you are selling majority of custom content) or perhaps to be able to trade/sell anything you must be a subscriber. I think this is where EA is/will be making their money, they can't make profit off not allowing people to skill and have fun at money lots? The free play is a great way to get more people to play....but we need to keep people there. I say if you aren't a subscriber....you must have a fee when uploading custom content.

 

[Guest]

I think free subscribers should be able to skill at the very least but not own a lot. What would that hurt?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I dont see why skilling should not be allowed or making money

[/ QUOTE ]
Free players can skill in non-skill houses, or be taught by a teacher. I spent 4 hours teaching a free player today, I needed the visitor time.

Free players can buy money from an ATM in game via paypal. EA will make more money from the ATM, than monthly fees. because a player doesn't need to spend hours and hours skilling or making money to get what they want now.

 

[imported_Starrfoxx]

I thought they did away with the visitor bonuses?

 

[dirndingle]

The SL comparison doesn't work because Linden Lab doesn't pay out Linden Dollars through some sort of work object(s).

In SL, if you want to make money and you're on a free account (or paying, for that matter), you have to earn it from other players, win it as a contest or game prize, or buy it off of one of the L$ exchanges.

The reason EA has to be more restrictive is simply because they are dumping convertible-to-real-life-currency directly into the economy. So they have to get something in return (subscription fees), or they go bankrupt.

This is why Linden Lab moved away from giving out weekly L$ stipends when they started offering free accounts.

 

[Guest]

But you also can't forget that there are no restrictions for free players in TC3. They can do whatever a subscribing player can do.

 

[dirndingle]

<blockquote><hr>

But you also can't forget that there are no restrictions for free players in TC3. They can do whatever a subscribing player can do.

[/ QUOTE ]Except cash out to real life $ (legitimately).

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I think free subscribers should be able to skill at the very least but not own a lot. What would that hurt?



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. I think it's fine that free players can't make money in EA Land since the justification for this is so that EA can make money off of them having to use the ATM, but I don't see the harm in allowing them to earn skills if they want to while they socialize and make friends that will make them WANT to subscribe so they can be on a pro-pizza team when they get that first skill to 20.99 or maze or code or whatever, but allowing them to get skill while they are getting a feel for the game wil make them see what their $9.99 a month will be good for....so that they can put all those newly gotten skills to use!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they did away with the visitor bonuses?

[/ QUOTE ]

They did. She said she needed the visitor HOURS not the bonus. She needs VH to climb the top 100 list, not to put money in her pocket. Hope that makes it make sense

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

But you also can't forget that there are no restrictions for free players in TC3. They can do whatever a subscribing player can do.

[/ QUOTE ]Except cash out to real life $ (legitimately).

[/ QUOTE ]

No one can cash out, free player or subscriber.

 

[dirndingle]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

But you also can't forget that there are no restrictions for free players in TC3. They can do whatever a subscribing player can do.

[/ QUOTE ]Except cash out to real life $ (legitimately).

[/ QUOTE ]

No one can cash out, free player or subscriber.

[/ QUOTE ]We will be able to on EA Land soon. Which is why free players are already locked out of making money on EA Land, or else they might just be hoarding the money they'd be making until the cash-out option is put in, and then convert to real money.

These following paragraphs aren't aimed at you BiteMe, they're to everyone in general.

The main reason that free players are not allowed to earn cash on EA Land, I don't think is because they want people to use the ATMs, although that is a bonus and part of the plan. The main reason is very simple. They can't just mint currency that has real life value from thin air and hand it to free players. And, what would be the incentive then, for anyone to pay to play? No one would and the game wouldn't exist.

People on free accounts would just grind work objects with teams of alts and cash out for real money without ever putting a dime in. If that money is coming from other players, like in Second Life, no problem. But when the game gods are handing out the paychecks, everything changes. The potential for abuse there is astronomical. They are running a business, not a charity. They have overhead - bandwidth, utilities, salaries, etc. to cover, and then they still have to show the execs a profit.

We think we have a bot problem NOW? Sheesh, the place would be overrun by every farmer and his brother if free accounts were allowed to earn.

But even if farmers didn't exist - they still can't hand out what amounts to free cash to non-paying players. They would go into the red in one month flat and no one would have any incentive to pay to play. It's simply out of the question, because it's not a viable business model.

Imagine walking into a video arcade, and not only does the owner set the machines to free play, he starts handing out money to people just for spending time playing. How long do you think he would remain in business?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

But you also can't forget that there are no restrictions for free players in TC3. They can do whatever a subscribing player can do.

[/ QUOTE ]Except cash out to real life $ (legitimately).

[/ QUOTE ]

No one can cash out, free player or subscriber.

[/ QUOTE ]We will be able to on EA Land soon. Which is why free players are already locked out of making money on EA Land, or else they might just be hoarding the money they'd be making until the cash-out option is put in, and then convert to real money.

The main reason that free players are not allowed to earn cash on EA Land, I don't think is because they want people to use the ATMs, although that is a bonus and part of the plan. The main reason is very simple. They can't just mint currency that has real life value from thin air and hand it to free players. And, what would be the incentive then, for anyone to pay to play? No one would and the game wouldn't exist.

People on free accounts would just grind work objects with teams of alts and cash out for real money without ever putting a dime in. If that money is coming from other players, like in Second Life, no problem. But when the game gods are handing out the paychecks, everything changes. The potential for abuse there is astronomical. They are running a business, not a charity. They have overhead - bandwidth, utilities, salaries, etc. to cover, and then they still have to show the execs a profit.

We think we have a bot problem NOW? Sheesh, the place would be overrun by every farmer and his brother if free accounts were allowed to earn.

But even if farmers didn't exist - they still can't hand out what amounts to free cash to non-paying players. They would go into the red in one month flat and no one would have any incentive to pay to play. It's simply out of the question, because it's not a viable business model.

Imagine walking into a video arcade, and not only does the owner set the machines to free play, he starts handing out money to people just for spending time playing. How long do you think he would remain in business?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big debate going on in-game and I've seen it here too debating on whether or not EA will enable this feature at all, whether for paying customers only or not. The wager some have made is that EA will realize that they will be virtually shooting themselves in the foot by doing this, or at very least by doing it before the bots are totally eradicated, and most of us know that they never really will be 100% eradicated long term.....maybe short term but only for however long it takes the 'professional' bot makers to create a bot that goes with and around the new coding that disabled the old bots. Therefore the thought/fear that we might never get cash-out is a legitimate one. I need to ask about this next time I'm in Town Hall at the same time Lee or Luc is and see what they have to say about the prospect of it right now.

 

[imported_queenme]

well i hope u were teachin that free player outta the goodness of ur heart cuz the bad news for u is, no matter how long free players sit at ur place, no matter how many times u refill the buffet to feed them, no matter how many times u serenade them, or teach them for free since most of them are poor...they no longer count towards ur visitor hours...or at least that is what i was told a few days ago

so for all of us service lots and any other lot types that free players congregate at, that have been feeding and caring for all of the free players for the last few weeks since they arrived...too bad so sad, they apparently "dont count"
so what again is the motivation for us to continue to assist free players? with all of their questions and needs?
yup thats it...the goodness of our hearts otherwise free players will soon find the doors locked to them on many properties i would imagine

one more fabulously implemented "change" from u guessed it the fantabulous ealand developers that clearly think through completely and thoroughly test each and every terrific idea they have before putting it into our game

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

well i hope u were teachin that free player outta the goodness of ur heart cuz the bad news for u is, no matter how long free players sit at ur place, no matter how many times u refill the buffet to feed them, no matter how many times u serenade them, or teach them for free since most of them are poor...they no longer count towards ur visitor hours...or at least that is what i was told a few days ago

so for all of us service lots and any other lot types that free players congregate at, that have been feeding and caring for all of the free players for the last few weeks since they arrived...too bad so sad, they apparently "dont count"
so what again is the motivation for us to continue to assist free players? with all of their questions and needs?
yup thats it...the goodness of our hearts otherwise free players will soon find the doors locked to them on many properties i would imagine

one more fabulously implemented "change" from u guessed it the fantabulous ealand developers that clearly think through completely and thoroughly test each and every terrific idea they have before putting it into our game

[/ QUOTE ]

That version is in TC3 currently, it has not been rolled over into EA Land that I'm aware of....I thought they were going to test it there and then publish it with EAL's normal Wednesday update. Have visitor hours already started dropping to account for free players not counting on lists?

 

[dirndingle]

I stand corrected then, but the reasoning still stands that they cannot let free players earn in EA Land if cash outs to RL are even only under consideration.

Thanks for the info though, that there is debate about whether they will implement it. That is surprising to me, given that they have been using that as a marketing angle in emails and so forth. Some of the blogs dealing with virtual world type stuff are buzzing about this cash-out stuff (supposedly?) coming to EA Land.

Keep us updated please

Editing to add - I do think if they reverse themselves and don't allow cash-outs in the end, that that will hurt them too. It's sort of a double-edged sword. I am sure a lot of people would just switch to free play, if there were no cash-outs.

Second edit - In thinking about this a bit more - have you heard (even through the grapevine) that any EA employee had indicated that they may not end up doing the cash-out thing? Or is that just players ruminating about it? Last I heard, which was a couple weeks ago on these forums, the plan to do so was still intact. I think it was Para who said that they were still doing some testing on it ( I think the posts I saw were dated towards the end of February).

 

[dirndingle]

The EA Land site currently has this paragraph under the economy section:

"Both EA-Land and TC3 have ATM objects that allow users to purchase in-game currency from PayPal at a rate of 989 : 1 USD. We call this "Cash In".

We plan to make a "Cash Out" feature available in the coming weeks. "

 

[Shyanne1]

I wouldn't want a free player to be able to skill. Think about it. They play for free, skill their sim up and then pay for a subscription. They have just gotten for free what all of the other players have been paying for. If I were able to skill for free, I'd cancel my paying subscription and wait until I was ready to earn money or own a house. That could be months of playing. Do we paying subscribers really want players to get what we get for "free". I don't.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The EA Land site currently has this paragraph under the economy section:

"Both EA-Land and TC3 have ATM objects that allow users to purchase in-game currency from PayPal at a rate of 989 : 1 USD. We call this "Cash In".

We plan to make a "Cash Out" feature available in the coming weeks. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, maybe the fear that cash out will not be enabled ever even in EAL is amongst the 'cynnical' that are still left......those that really don't believe anything EA says until it actually comes to fruition. I hope that this is one instance that those have to eat crow, even if I have to eat a small portion of it myself. Even if the cash out exchange rate was around 20% of cash in, putting it at approximately 4500 simoleans for $1 USD, it would still be a good faith effort on EA's part, however they'd definitely HAVE to get a better than average handle on the botting situation, or the botters even at that rate will make enough to pay for all their accounts *easily* without ever having to sell simoleans to other players at a rate that undercuts EA's cash-in rate, which makes EA lose in the end, and if EA loses, we all lose.

Cherry Bomb's Adam Smith correlation is a good one, but I still like John Nash's revision of Adam Smith "The best result comes from everybody doing what's best for himself AND the group". Very much true in this case. Botters have screwed up the lives of 'honest' players through the thrusting of OWP onto all of us because of them, the huge inflation of rare prices because of them, etc., but with this dynamic economy, and cash-in/cash-out, those botters really have the power to mess with our game lives even more, and even the power to destroy the game. The only way that's going to be stopped is if they come to realize the truth behind Nash's revelation, or if they are expunged from the game entirely by the devs through IP BANS, *not* just account bans......account bans mean nothing, they will just turn around and make more accounts even if they have to pay for them as has been proven many times over. IP bans would get rid of the problem, once and for all. Yes, that means that anybody in the household that shares that IP who might not be guilty would be affected, but perhaps those people since they probably know of the shady dealings going on can lay on the pressure for those people to knock it off if they don't want to face some *RL* consequences LOL

Seriously, whatever EA needs to do to get rid of the bots as best they can, they need to do it, and each of us need to do our parts to help them do it, by pointing them toward players and lots that we think might be suspicious, and then letting THEM do the investigating, to avoid vigilantism.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I wouldn't want a free player to be able to skill. Think about it. They play for free, skill their sim up and then pay for a subscription. They have just gotten for free what all of the other players have been paying for. If I were able to skill for free, I'd cancel my paying subscription and wait until I was ready to earn money or own a house. That could be months of playing. Do we paying subscribers really want players to get what we get for "free". I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

*shrugs* They already get what we pay for for free, just in a different city, so I don't see what the big deal would be in letting them skill. And no, it would not be months of play, not even close. All new players start out with 20 locks. You can skill one skill from 0.00 to 20.99 in 30 hours of playing, if memory serves me correctly, maybe not even that much, so since skilling is all the free player would be able to do that they can't already do, that would mean that even if they had a full time job or were a full time student and therefore could only play 2-4 hours a night, you're still only talking about a week or two. After getting that skill to 20.99 the free player is going.....hey, I've got this skill, sure would be nice to be able to do something with it, so they come here and find out what they can do with the skill they've gotten, and that all they have to do to be able to do that is subscribe the $9.99 a month. With all that time invested in skilling already, how many people wouldn't invest $9.99 to be able to put it to good use rather than calling it wasted?

 

[imported_queenme]

i think you all are missing something here...

free players CAN and DO skill for free...they just cant do it at a skills house, so the fastest they can gain skill through traditional skilling is the 71% cap rate at a service house and i have heard tho have not verified that it is .03% higher at a welcome lot or sumthin like that at least for a single skilling player dont know about the multiple skilling ones

free players can also be taught skills so many folks are getting skills taught to them at a much faster rate by teachers

free players CAN and DO also earn money at the jobs and from other players tipping them to help at jobs or from creating custom content and selling it in game...many ways for a free player to earn money and skill and play this game enjoyably, they simply cannot go to money lots or skilling lots...thats it...seems to me they have a pretty sweet deal as a free player yet honestly if they limited the accounts further...not sure why anyone would even try playing on a free acct for more than a day or two it would b so boring and useles ud just quit if u couldnt earn money or skills or were in some other way more limited

the way it is now, at least according to many of the free players that hang out at my place skilling all day, several of them to my knowledge have already converted to paid accounts to have all of the rights and privileges of a paid player...so that would appear that at least this one aspect of "free player accounts" is working out pretty much as planned?

my 10 cents for today

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they did away with the visitor bonuses?

[/ QUOTE ]

Silly me, my bad yes they did . . . but while the visitor was at my place, I appeared Open on the map and got more visitors . . . I should have worded that differently.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I wouldn't want a free player to be able to skill. Think about it. They play for free, skill their sim up and then pay for a subscription. They have just gotten for free what all of the other players have been paying for. If I were able to skill for free, I'd cancel my paying subscription and wait until I was ready to earn money or own a house. That could be months of playing. Do we paying subscribers really want players to get what we get for "free". I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]But unless these free players get to experience many aspects of the game, how will they be able to convince themselves that they do want to sign up for a paid account?

If all people can do is chat - which seems to be basically what you are proposing - why bother paying at all when there are many other - graphical and non-graphical - ways of doing that?

In SL, you can do everything except own land (although you can rent land from others) on free accounts. In WoW, you get to experience everything but trade items, and you are capped at level 20 on a 14 day trial.

Your argument about months of paying to skill has no substance. I could make a new sim with zero skills, throw some money at the ATM, and have the best house full of all the top gear tomorrow. You don't need skills to build something and make it popular. A store, for example, needs money and time - your sim's skills don't mean diddly unless you offer homecooked food, when cooking points are handy. Failing that, cheeseburgers and buffet all the way baby.

 

[Guest]

Just a guess but free players can no longer use them to bot with, correct? I'm all for that.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Just a guess but free players can no longer use them to bot with, correct? I'm all for that.

[/ QUOTE ]That would definitely be one advantage of free accounts not skilling - if they must cheat at least make them pay for it - but it does cause a lot of other problems for otherwise honest players.

Perhaps a compromise would be similar to what WoW uses in its free trials, in the level cap. A maximum of 5 points per skill only can be locked, regardless of account age? That then gives people an opportunity to experience skilling and unlock some of the interactions, yet slows down the botters cash production considerably?

 

[Guest]

I think I like the idea of free players being able to do everything except own a lot. I also like the idea of the skill lock cap. Maybe let them lock the original 20 and free accounts don't accumulate additional locks every 21 days? That would be another incentive to switch to a paid account.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I think I like the idea of free players being able to do everything except own a lot. I also like the idea of the skill lock cap. Maybe let them lock the original 20 and free accounts don't accumulate additional locks every 21 days? That would be another incentive to switch to a paid account.

[/ QUOTE ]Every game is the same. Free players want to do everything, paid accounts either want them so restricted they can't do hardly anything, or got rid of entirely.

A compromise such as this would, I believe, solve many of the problems listed.

 

[Curtis Jones]

My initial point was to say there are other ways to restrict free playing accounts. Its not going to stop people from running more than one game at a time playing their two sims and working on pizza, code machines etc to make bank and blow the economy. I think that free accounts should NOT be able to upload custom content, own property, or be able to buy/trade. I think this is the biggest direction the game is going, and those restrictions alone will get people to switch to a paying account. I think perhaps you can't even room somewhere as a free account, I think free players should be able to skill and go to money houses though...because if they can't purchase anything, sell/trade anything you have your problem fixed that these supposed current restrictions "fix." I just think it will keep more people playing if they have these two things to do. <font color="red"> </font>

 

[Guest]

You have a good point. Being able to skill and make money are a significant part of the game play. If free accounts were limited to 20 skills locks, unable to craft, trade or own a lot, I would think those would certainly be incentives to be a paid subscriber. The benefits would be that they could check out the most popular aspects of the game to see if they really want to pay for it before shelling out $9.99/month.

 

[imported_Armonia]

you can skill and make money in TC as a free player. The only restrictions for free players is in EA Land.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

you can skill and make money in TC as a free player. The only restrictions for free players is in EA Land.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that much is clear......we're discussing the limitations in EA Land. Some of us feel that it wouldn't hurt anything to allow free players to *skill* in EAL since that has no bearing on the economy, except in good ways where it would make the drains of food even bigger than they are now since skill lots would be getting more business ostencibly and feeding more sims. EA has said that if and when the drains were sufficiently used, along with the hampering of bots, only then would payouts have any chance of going up, so there's another advantage.

You might say free players have to eat already when they visit store and service lots, however many of the friends I have made that are on free accounts say they just simply never go to EA Land at all since they can't DO anything besides mooch off other players while socializing on store and service lots. Contrary to popular belief, many of these sims don't actually get a kick out of not being able to tip the way premium players can, particularly when they come here and read some of the other players attitudes about all the 'freeloading sims'. At least by allowing them to skill there's the potential that they could earn money from those skills by doing things for other players.....fixing broken objects with mech, teaching with high enough skills there, reviving dead sims, doing serenade rounds for roomies/owners giving them a much needed break etc. They then could in turn use part of that money to tip at the skill houses that we are suggesting they be allowed to go to, and therefore cease for the most part to be 'freeloaders'. Wouldn't that be win/win all the way around?

 

[PoindeJ]

I think that skilling would be a good way to go. Frankly, 80% of people go to skill or money lots, so the rest of them are empty. It's not much fun for a free player; there's really nothing to do. I personally am a returning player with a free account (not sure how much I'm returning, waiting for some solidifying changes, got enough stuff to procrastinate already heh), so I just play in TC3. I tried playing in EA-Land but it's really not fun at all. At least being able to skill would be a good compromise, I think.

 

[NightFlyer]

TTL

If the free accounts could go to skill lots wouldn't we have the same situation of hiding sims for hours as we have in the store lots?

I say make them even more restricted in EA Land and they can check out TC3 as they are now if they want to make a decision on subscribing.

Subscribing should have it's advantages. Otherwise why would anyone want to subscribe?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

TTL

If the free accounts could go to skill lots wouldn't we have the same situation of hiding sims for hours as we have in the store lots?

I say make them even more restricted in EA Land and they can check out TC3 as they are now if they want to make a decision on subscribing.

Subscribing should have it's advantages. Otherwise why would anyone want to subscribe?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, but IF they can't make money, and IF their visitor hours don't count, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to skill. However, skill house owners might not want a lot of free trials visiting if the visitor hours do not count.

 

[Guest]

But "IF" they are only allowed the 20 skill locks and can't accumulate every 21 days, more than likely they would limit how much time they put in skilling.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

But "IF" they are only allowed the 20 skill locks and can't accumulate every 21 days, more than likely they would limit how much time they put in skilling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, seeing as they can't make money and can't count for visitors hours, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to gain skill locks either.

I just don't understand why they would want to skill so much if they can't make money off of it. Other than the interactions, and the ability to eventually craft and teach, maybe.

Free trials should be able to craft and make cc, in my opinion, because the only way for them to fund those particular activities would be to buy money from EA or somehow make it from other players.

As far as teaching, that seems like something that would be a good thing to limit.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I think that skilling would be a good way to go. Frankly, 80% of people go to skill or money lots, so the rest of them are empty. It's not much fun for a free player; there's really nothing to do. I personally am a returning player with a free account (not sure how much I'm returning, waiting for some solidifying changes, got enough stuff to procrastinate already heh), so I just play in TC3. I tried playing in EA-Land but it's really not fun at all. At least being able to skill would be a good compromise, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hung out today on a free account in a service house in EA-Land, and it was the most fun I've had in years. People were talking and excited about the game. I haven't heard people "role play" with skilling music instruments since 2002. When it came time to go to work, a bunch of us went to the robot factory together. And we all talked there, too. I helped clean up around the service lot when we all went back, and the host thanked me for helping ... and wasn't afk at all. No one was afk - that is what made it so great.

Maybe the money doesn't flow in so fast. Maybe the skill takes longer to get. But when I stopped comparing it to the subscriber uber-game I'm used to and started just going with what seemed to being happening, it was a really refreshing change.

 

[Guest]

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the free trial is for people to check the game out and see if they really want to subscribe and play. How can they check out all of the activities if the skill feature is so limited? Skilling and making money are pretty significant features of the game. I can see limiting them on other things but skilling is a harmless feature of the game. Doesn't do any good if they are limited with how they can use those skills that they gain. Especially if they are only limited to 20 locks.

 

[dirndingle]

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.

 

[Guest]

That is correct.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

TTL

If the free accounts could go to skill lots wouldn't we have the same situation of hiding sims for hours as we have in the store lots?

I say make them even more restricted in EA Land and they can check out TC3 as they are now if they want to make a decision on subscribing.

Subscribing should have it's advantages. Otherwise why would anyone want to subscribe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Free accounts no longer counting in visitor hours kinda obliterated that exploit, did it not?

 

[Guest]

Well I think at this point it is slipping through the cracks because skilling IS allowed on lots other than skill lots. In the future, I believe, skilling will be limited to skill lots only, thus removing this "problem".

 

[imported_Trudymac]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

[/ QUOTE ]People think it because it's true. It's how it's supposed to work.

The fact that there are loopholes is a separate issue from the issue at hand here, which is whether or not free players should be OFFICIALLY be allowed on skill and money lots. By the way, those holes will be closed, I'm sure.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

[/ QUOTE ]People think it because it's true. It's how it's supposed to work.

The fact that there are loopholes is a separate issue from the issue at hand here, which is whether or not free players should be OFFICIALLY be allowed on skill and money lots. By the way, those holes will be closed, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that there are loopholes is precisely the issue.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

[/ QUOTE ]People think it because it's true. It's how it's supposed to work.

The fact that there are loopholes is a separate issue from the issue at hand here, which is whether or not free players should be OFFICIALLY be allowed on skill and money lots. By the way, those holes will be closed, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the EA-Land website it is NOT how it is supposed to work. It is just how it happens to work at this point, as skill objects have not been removed from all other properties.

I'll get the exact quote and link to this information.


Edit: As found HERE .
<blockquote><hr>

Earning Skills

Skills objects only work in 'Skill' lots, and those lots are restricted to free players. Locked skills are maintained for free players. Some lots in the game like residential behave as if you had 'full' skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[imported_Trudymac]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

[/ QUOTE ]People think it because it's true. It's how it's supposed to work.

The fact that there are loopholes is a separate issue from the issue at hand here, which is whether or not free players should be OFFICIALLY be allowed on skill and money lots. By the way, those holes will be closed, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that there are loopholes is precisely the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, the OP said nothing about loopholes.

He wants to be allowed on money and skill lots on EA Land while only maintaining a free account.

 

[imported_Trudymac]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I thought they can skill, just not on skill lots.



[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

That is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does everybody think that?
It's NOT true - there are holes to slip through.

[/ QUOTE ]People think it because it's true. It's how it's supposed to work.

The fact that there are loopholes is a separate issue from the issue at hand here, which is whether or not free players should be OFFICIALLY be allowed on skill and money lots. By the way, those holes will be closed, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the EA-Land website it is NOT how it is supposed to work. It is just how it happens to work at this point, as skill objects have not been removed from all other properties.

I'll get the exact quote and link to this information.


Edit: As found HERE .
<blockquote><hr>

Earning Skills

Skills objects only work in 'Skill' lots, and those lots are restricted to free players. Locked skills are maintained for free players. Some lots in the game like residential behave as if you had 'full' skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]OK, thanks for correcting me. I thought them being able to skill on service lots was part of the design and not a loophole itself. Thanks for edumacatin' me!

The loopholes (and I now include the service lot loophole) are still not the issue here per the OP. The thread was posted to advocate free players being able to legally skill and earn money on skill and money lots.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

TTL

If the free accounts could go to skill lots wouldn't we have the same situation of hiding sims for hours as we have in the store lots?

I say make them even more restricted in EA Land and they can check out TC3 as they are now if they want to make a decision on subscribing.

Subscribing should have it's advantages. Otherwise why would anyone want to subscribe?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, but IF they can't make money, and IF their visitor hours don't count, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to skill. However, skill house owners might not want a lot of free trials visiting if the visitor hours do not count.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are no benefits to switching to a paid account why would you? Limiting free accounts is great, no bogus visitor hours for stores or other properties (visitor hours are supposed to show you the best of the best but no longer reflect that, sometimes it is the worst of the worst

) free accounts can no longer be used by the botters....HOORRRAAAYYY. I'm all for restricting free accounts. One of the best improvements so far added to the game.

 

[Jafo]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The only way that's going to be stopped is if they come to realize the truth behind Nash's revelation, or if they are expunged from the game entirely by the devs through IP BANS, *not* just account bans......account bans mean nothing, they will just turn around and make more accounts even if they have to pay for them as has been proven many times over. IP bans would get rid of the problem, once and for all. Yes, that means that anybody in the household that shares that IP who might not be guilty would be affected, but perhaps those people since they probably know of the shady dealings going on can lay on the pressure for those people to knock it off if they don't want to face some *RL* consequences LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

IP bans do nothing. Sure, if everyone had static IP's it would work great but alas many do not. There are also many ISP's (mostly foreign or AOL) that use legitimate proxies. So are you going to ban an entire ISP say in India because one person runs a bot?

Let us not forget colleges who also run many wifi spots and/or proxies which would also affect a large part of the sim population if IP bans were handed out.

Fact is, it is hard to beat bots.

Only allowing subscribers to cash out is a great tool. If you as a subscriber get caught running a bot, it will be much easier to keep you out.

I would like to think that free players could earn simoleans, use them throughout the game, and even skill if they want, just no ability to transfer cash, or cash out, or in essence give any paid subscriber $$. However, once they go to a paid account, they should have to start over when it comes to locks, points, and cash. They should never be allowed to own property or be a roommate. That should be left to paid players only and it will give them incentives to get a subscription.

Just my two cents..

 

[imported_Trudymac]

I agree 100% about IP bans. Heck, most people can call their ISP and request a new IP number, with few or no questions asked.

I like your idea of free accounts being able to earn money but not transfer it or cash it out. Really solves a lot of problems at once.