Cash out feature?

[CarlosN]

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Anyone know when the cash out feature will be available?
It was said that it was coming in a few weeks ago and its passed a few weeks lol
and does anyone know what the rate will be?
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[mameloot]

My closest guess would be about 2 weeks before EA closes the game because of how much money it's losing.

But seriously, no, neither have been announced.

 

[imported_Danny Dots]

I've heard many different things. The best answer I can give you at this moment is sometime in the near future

 

[Guest]

Parizad said about a week ago in the town hall that it should be within the next 2 months, but then went on to say that was just her guesstimate.
IMO, it will be when they get the payouts down to a level where no one is able to make their subscription back in what ever the in game currency is going to be.
They also likely have to drain what I would guess to be at least in the tens of millions from the economy now.
Imagine being responsible for opening the buybacks right now and having to go to the EA high ups and say we just paid out say $50,000 in rl cash to players.
The buyback value will have to be fairly close to the sale value for so many reasons that have been discussed in these forums before. I am not going to get into why but IMO, will be around 15% less than sale price.
I still believe the only way they can do this is to separate the currency they buy and sell into the game, from the currency used in the game. Let the players determine the value of what replaces the simoleans compared to the currency EA buys and sells, by having them trade the 2 currencies in game.

 

[Guest]

I simply do NOT! want this in-game. I have my reasons here.

 

[Guest]

I am with you on this. Cash out is a horrible idea. Yes it will put money back into the economy but it just isn't a good idea. Besides, this will not happen until the dev team can 100% be sure the botters are out of the game.

 

[Guest]

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Anyone know when the cash out feature will be available?
It was said that it was coming in a few weeks ago and its passed a few weeks lol
and does anyone know what the rate will be?
</center> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't look for this any time soon.
I pretty much agree with what Bite Me had to say.
If they had enabled cash-out at the same time EA Land opened, they would have had to deal with only a trickle of cash-out simoleons, and would be in a position to adjust the exchange rate on a daily basis (to find the proper balance point) while the excess slowly drained off over time. By not doing that, EA has allowed farmers to amass a stockpile of simoleons that would cause financial damage to EA should cash-out be enabled now.
They need a solution to that problem if cash-out is to *ever* be enabled.

Can anybody say............ "wipe"?

.....ducks.....

 

[Guest]

For this game to have any chance of staying alive they have to introduce the cash out feature.
There are to many other online games that already have it successfully established and EAL would not be able to compete without the advantages it will offer.
If they do not introduce it then EA will have to try to do all the new content themselves where other games have thousands of people introducing new content constantly.
Take SL for example, there has been rl companies established by players who make new content.
I am not talking about the CC we are seeing right now, but real additions to the game. New features, games inside the game, real competition and an influx of constant new content.
For EA to have the type of people that are capable of producing that content they need to make it worth their while, and they need to do it in a similar method to what all the others offer.
If they don't the game will go down much the same path it did before.

 

[mameloot]

My opinion is, if it works like everyone ASSUMES it's going to work, it will be the death of the game.

The only way they can actually do this is if you can't sell back money that you make, only money you purchase at the ATM.
You think payouts are bad now...wait till they have to start giving RL money for digital jams. The only people that will be making any money are the exploiters...because they will still be here. There's no way to get around it. Someone will always figure out an expoit.

I'm usually an optimist, but...
I DON'T WANT THIS FEATURE OPENED!!!!!
Horrible, HORRIBLE idea.

my 2 cents
mame

 

[Guest]

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Anyone know when the cash out feature will be available?
It was said that it was coming in a few weeks ago and its passed a few weeks lol
and does anyone know what the rate will be?
</center> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't look for this any time soon.
I pretty much agree with what Bite Me had to say.
If they had enabled cash-out at the same time EA Land opened, they would have had to deal with only a trickle of cash-out simoleons, and would be in a position to adjust the exchange rate on a daily basis (to find the proper balance point) while the excess slowly drained off over time. By not doing that, EA has allowed farmers to amass a stockpile of simoleons that would cause financial damage to EA should cash-out be enabled now.
They need a solution to that problem if cash-out is to *ever* be enabled.

Can anybody say............ "wipe"?

.....ducks.....

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that the "trickle" method should also work in reverse.
Set the cash-out rate very high and slowly lower it over time, depending on how much is being sold back. Some people will sell no matter how high if they really want the money and have no real idea when or if the rate will drop.
As more and more simoleons are drained over time, the rate can eventually drop to a reasonable level.
This is the same principle as dynamic payouts/pricing.

 

[mameloot]

BiteMe, the difference is that, as far as I know, you can't MAKE fake money in SL. The game itself does not award you money for doing things like jamming, easles, working in a factory, etc...

Any money being given to CC'ers in SL is brought into the game directly by other players purchasing it. The game isn't losing anything by cashing out because it's all even. When a player cashes out, they are just getting money that another player PURCHASED.

That's a HUGE difference from EA-Land where we can create game money without RL money being spent.

No comparison.

mame

 

[Guest]

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My opinion is, if it works like everyone ASSUMES it's going to work, it will be the death of the game.

The only way they can actually do this is if you can't sell back money that you make, only money you purchase at the ATM.
You think payouts are bad now...wait till they have to start giving RL money for digital jams. The only people that will be making any money are the exploiters...because they will still be here. There's no way to get around it. Someone will always figure out an expoit.

I'm usually an optimist, but...
I DON'T WANT THIS FEATURE OPENED!!!!!
Horrible, HORRIBLE idea.

my 2 cents
mame

[/ QUOTE ]
There is one thing *everybody* needs to understand - EA wants this.
Cash-in, cash-out is a proven profit maker as demonstrated by several other on-line games, EA wants their piece of the pie.
Whether we players like it or not, whether we think it's a good idea or not, EA will do whatever they need to do to make a profit. Cash-in cash-out is one of those things.
I will even go so far as to bet that EA Land will close if this feature cannot be enabled (or an equally profitable substitute can't be found).

 

[Guest]

They need to start using their imagination on ways to pull simoleans back out of the game.
I suggested a while back that they should introduce a couple of new robo pets, set a sellback value on pet carriers only, and let the pet pullers go nuts trying to get the new rares.
Another thing they could do is have raffles. Make a couple of new really special items that will only ever be put in this game this 1 time. Raffle off say 5 of each and watch the simoleans disappear from the game.
Trying to control th3e economy with low payouts and high prices will never be enough. Especially when there are so many import items in there to clear 1st.
The way things are it really leaves only property and repair costs to pull simoleans back to EA.
If they don’t do something soon they take a real chance on undoing all the good work they have done.

 

[mameloot]

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[
There is one thing *everybody* needs to understand - EA wants this.
Cash-in, cash-out is a proven profit maker as demonstrated by several other on-line games, EA wants their piece of the pie.
Whether we players like it or not, whether we think it's a good idea or not, EA will do whatever they need to do to make a profit. Cash-in cash-out is one of those things.
I will even go so far as to bet that EA Land will close if this feature cannot be enabled (or an equally profitable substitute can't be found).

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, and I don't doubt it.

I also have no doubt that the EA Suits saying this havn't a clue what they're really asking for. They're going to be really pissed when that glorious "profit" they're salivating over turns out to be a great big sucking drain.

(not that I have a strong opinion about this subject

)

I want payouts back up, and to not have to buy money at the ATM to play this game. If Cash Out goes into place...we won't be able to play that way. It will al be about buying money at the ATM. Payouts will only get smaller.
mame

 

[Guest]

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BiteMe, the difference is that, as far as I know, you can't MAKE fake money in SL. The game itself does not award you money for doing things like jamming, easles, working in a factory, etc...

Any money being given to CC'ers in SL is brought into the game directly by other players purchasing it. The game isn't losing anything by cashing out because it's all even. When a player cashes out, they are just getting money that another player PURCHASED.

That's a HUGE difference from EA-Land where we can create game money without RL money being spent.

No comparison.

mame

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me I am fully aware of that and have been for a long time.
That is the biggest problem that the devs are facing, being able to introduce the buybacks and still keep the money objects and jobs in the game.
That's why I believe they need to separate the currency they buy and sell from the currency used and made in the game.

 

[Guest]

You have to think about the botters, exploiters, etc. they, will always find ways. I sticking by my reason and hope this feature won't come to play.

 

[Guest]

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You have to think about the botters, exploiters, etc. they, will always find ways. I sticking by my reason and hope this feature won't come to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but it's not a case of what's best for the game - it's what's best for EA. Without this feature, the chances are good that we will all be looking for another game to play by Christmas.

Even if they are able to squeeze a profit out of subscription play and ATMs alone, why should they? They can take the resources being used to maintain EA Land and use them on another, more profitable, project. More bang for their buck.

 

[Guest]

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You have to think about the botters, exploiters, etc. they, will always find ways. I sticking by my reason and hope this feature won't come to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but it's not a case of what's best for the game - it's what's best for EA. Without this feature, the chances are good that we will all be looking for another game to play by Christmas.

Even if they are able to squeeze a profit out of subscription play and ATMs alone, why should they? They can take the resources being used to maintain EA Land and use them on another, more profitable, project. More bang for their buck.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok, if EA wants this for EA for some kind of profit gain. Then, maybe EA should care more about the people then there precious game. (the players keep it alive, not EA)

 

[Guest]

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You have to think about the botters, exploiters, etc. they, will always find ways. I sticking by my reason and hope this feature won't come to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but it's not a case of what's best for the game - it's what's best for EA. Without this feature, the chances are good that we will all be looking for another game to play by Christmas.

Even if they are able to squeeze a profit out of subscription play and ATMs alone, why should they? They can take the resources being used to maintain EA Land and use them on another, more profitable, project. More bang for their buck.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok, if EA wants this for EA for some kind of profit gain. Then, maybe EA should care more about the people then there precious game. (the players keep it alive, not EA)

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree - I believe a satisfied customer is the key to profits and should be the first priority in any business.
But, who knows if the suits at EA think the same way?

Sometimes I wonder.

 

[DGLita]

I personally believe that EA should never have enabled Cash in whilst the game is in beta. It just feels like a reckless move to me, If it came to a point where a wipe was necessary how are they going to deal with all the people that have paid real hard cash for their simoleans.

Cash in and cash out should have been implemented at the same time, we were promised cash out and it just feels like the biggest ever scam in the game has been perpetrated, not by the players, but by EA themselves.

 

[Guest]

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BiteMe, the difference is that, as far as I know, you can't MAKE fake money in SL. The game itself does not award you money for doing things like jamming, easles, working in a factory, etc...

Any money being given to CC'ers in SL is brought into the game directly by other players purchasing it. The game isn't losing anything by cashing out because it's all even. When a player cashes out, they are just getting money that another player PURCHASED.

That's a HUGE difference from EA-Land where we can create game money without RL money being spent.

No comparison.

mame

[/ QUOTE ]

That isn't true. There are ways in SL to make Lindens within the game, and the game itself gives a weekly bonus to their paid customers just like EAL does. Granted you can't do it every fast, but you can't do it very fast these days in EAL either, so there is a direct parallel there.

 

[Guest]

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I personally believe that EA should never have enabled Cash in whilst the game is in beta. It just feels like a reckless move to me, If it came to a point where a wipe was necessary how are they going to deal with all the people that have paid real hard cash for their simoleans.

Cash in and cash out should have been implemented at the same time, we were promised cash out and it just feels like the biggest ever scam in the game has been perpetrated, not by the players, but by EA themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the same token, common sense should tell players that the game is in beta, and therefore wipes might be necessary at any time, without EA *having* to spell it all out. Caveat Emptur - Buyer Beware. That fact that we are still in beta should be in the back of the minds of every person who uses the ATM at this point....if they do it recklessly without thinking about that then I'm not convinced that EA is 100% responsible for that, players and their *instant gratification* needs have to have some blame placed on them, as well.

 

[Guest]

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You have to think about the botters, exploiters, etc. they, will always find ways. I sticking by my reason and hope this feature won't come to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but it's not a case of what's best for the game - it's what's best for EA. Without this feature, the chances are good that we will all be looking for another game to play by Christmas.

Even if they are able to squeeze a profit out of subscription play and ATMs alone, why should they? They can take the resources being used to maintain EA Land and use them on another, more profitable, project. More bang for their buck.

[/ QUOTE ]Regardless of our feelings on the matter, cash-out is going to happen. It's not a question of if, but of when. Right now, the devs need to make sure the game is bulletproof, and that safeguards and failsafes (such as server shutdown if a leak is detected) are in place and working properly.

Parizad stated that this last exploit dumped nearly a quarter million US Dollars worth of simoleans into the economy. If cash-out had already been implemented, that incident would have gotten horribly ugly real fast!

 

[imported_Trudymac]

*ttl*

I did some back of the envelope calculations...


1 Work object Cycle (WC) = ~4.5 mins

1 Full work Cycle* (FC) = ~33.5min

7 WC per FC

Greening (G) = ~7.5 mins

FC+G (FCG) = ~41 mins

24hrs** = ~35 FCG

52§ per WC @ max skill

364§ per FCG

12740§ max per day

989§ = 1USD

12.88USD max per day

386USD per month

* 'Full work Cycle' means the period of time from a fully green state and starting to do work cycles until hunger is at about 15-20% and you stop working. I timed it and found that you could do 7 work cycles per 'full cycle'. Your mileage may very, if you let your hunger go lower.

**This whole set of calculations is based upon the idea that a person did this 24 hours a day, on one EA LAnd account.

Obviously, no non-bot running person is going to do this anywhere close to 24 hours a day, BUT, even if we assume that some 'normal' people will only be earning 5% of that total per month, this still exceeds their monthly subscription fee by almost double (19.30USD or ~19000§). I have already earned 2500§ so far this evening, so 19000§ per month is not out of the realm of possibility for a casual player.

This leads me to believe that those who are saying payouts will take a big hit are probably right. It also makes me think there may be another money wipe when EA Land graduates from beta status.

PS: I am neither a math major nor accountant, and i am a bit sleepy, so if anyone spots mistakes in my calculations be sure to point them out please.

 

[Guest]

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Take SL for example, there has been rl companies established by players who make new content.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm one of them, making about $700 a month for people wanting to take advantage of my building skills.

The difference, however, is that there is nothing in SL that can be 'botted' to make any amount of cash from Linden Lab. All money that is cashed out comes directly or indirectly from other players whi have bought it from the Lindex exchange.

Over a million dollars worth of transactions takes place every day on Second Life.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Take SL for example, there has been rl companies established by players who make new content.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm one of them, making about $700 a month for people wanting to take advantage of my building skills.

The difference, however, is that there is nothing in SL that can be 'botted' to make any amount of cash from Linden Lab. All money that is cashed out comes directly or indirectly from other players whi have bought it from the Lindex exchange.

Over a million dollars worth of transactions takes place every day on Second Life.

[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me there isn't a little truck running around in SL with "ajdown construction" painted on the side.

LOL. I can see it now - the tiny license plate that says "Death 2 TSO"

Oh! Oh! And a bumper sticker that reads "This truck does NOT brake for cheaters!".

 

[imported_remflyer]

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<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Take SL for example, there has been rl companies established by players who make new content.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm one of them, making about $700 a month for people wanting to take advantage of my building skills.

The difference, however, is that there is nothing in SL that can be 'botted' to make any amount of cash from Linden Lab. All money that is cashed out comes directly or indirectly from other players whi have bought it from the Lindex exchange.

Over a million dollars worth of transactions takes place every day on Second Life.

[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me there isn't a little truck running around in SL with "ajdown construction" painted on the side.

LOL. I can see it now - the tiny license plate that says "Death 2 TSO"

Oh! Oh! And a bumper sticker that reads "This truck does NOT brake for cheaters!".

[/ QUOTE ]
LMAO Donavan, every morning I log on to Stratics during maintenance to catch up on the posts that I missed and I usually find something that just tickles me. This morning it was this post of yours. I had the complete visual in my head as you described it. lol

To get back to the subject of this thread I was there when Parizad said she thought cash out would be in about two months (that was about a week ago).

Couldn't they start off slow with cash out. Limiting how much each account could cash out per day?

BiteMe, I love your idea of allowing sellback value on pet carriers only with some new cool pets to find. I always thought that pet pulling was a great drain for the game. People just go crazy for this. Devs are you listening?

 

[Guest]

To quote my fave person...
And the amazing Parizad says.....
Soon.
A few months...
How about in 2008.

lol....

Sorry Par couldn't resist.

 

[Guest]

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The difference, however, is that there is nothing in SL that can be 'botted' to make any amount of cash from Linden Lab. All money that is cashed out comes directly or indirectly from other players whi have bought it from the Lindex exchange.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting.

In TSO/EA Land there are many ways of "generating" non-existing money. Even without any bots. Just click "sell preserves" every once in a while...

If EA allow us to cash it out without limits, they will be standing there with the bill.

Most serious players will be able to make at least enough money to cover the monthly fee, and more.

I say wait with the cash out feature until it's 100% certain that it doesn't shut the whole game down.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Take SL for example, there has been rl companies established by players who make new content.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm one of them, making about $700 a month for people wanting to take advantage of my building skills.

The difference, however, is that there is nothing in SL that can be 'botted' to make any amount of cash from Linden Lab. All money that is cashed out comes directly or indirectly from other players whi have bought it from the Lindex exchange.

Over a million dollars worth of transactions takes place every day on Second Life.

[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me there isn't a little truck running around in SL with "ajdown construction" painted on the side.

LOL. I can see it now - the tiny license plate that says "Death 2 TSO"

Oh! Oh! And a bumper sticker that reads "This truck does NOT brake for cheaters!".

[/ QUOTE ]

Donovan, I would pay to read your posts, LMAO

 

[SITA sim]

I think this is a horrible idea, I think its just going to encorage cheaters and I dont see any actual benifits to this. we lost the cool casinos we uesd to have ingame because they want to do this as well. I wish that they would just take another look and decide its a bad idea and give us our Casino houses back.
Oh yeah, and I think we should still be able to buy game money with real money.

 

[Guest]

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I think this is a horrible idea, I think its just going to encorage cheaters and I dont see any actual benifits to this. we lost the cool casinos we uesd to have ingame because they want to do this as well. I wish that they would just take another look and decide its a bad idea and give us our Casino houses back.
Oh yeah, and I think we should still be able to buy game money with real money.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can....haven't you seen the ATMs?

Casinos will NOT come back......ever. I realize this was a big deal to some people, but it is just one of those things that is a thing of the past and clinging to the idea that it might come back when we know it won't is just going to delay the process of getting used to it and moving on.

As far as cash-out goes, I find Katheryne's relaying of Parizad's statement fascinating. We've never been told what the cashout ratio is going to be, so I wonder how they value the simoleans at $250k USD....are they talking about the amount of money that those players would have collectively paid EA to buy that many simoleans, or is that the amount that EA would have paid those players if they had been allowed to sell those simoleans back to EA for RL cash?