Can't we clarify this once for all?

[Nenime]

Do skill gains base on the real or the modified skill?

I still see different opinions about this. Neither on UO-Playguide nor on Stratic pages I could find the ultimate answer.

Example: A crafter takes on a +success chance talisman. So his chances to craft increases ergo he has to craft more difficult items to get into the optial gaining area.

FoF April 20, 2007

"Does equipping a +success chance talisman change your rate of skill gain?"

For difficulty-based skills, including the crafting skills, it does - it can actually affect it either way. Your skill gain in these skills is dependent on your success chance for each action - you have a better chance of gaining if the action is neither too easy nor too hard. So anything that changes that chance of success, including talismans and +skill jewelry, will change the rate at which you gain skill.

Another example: A Mage let himself getting discorded. So his chances to cast decreases ergo he has to cast less difficult spell to get into the optimal gaining area.

FoF February 22, 2008

"While Discorded, do your skills gain as if you were your actual skill level or the level that your skill drops to?"

Your Discorded skill level is used to calculate your skill gain chance - so for difficulty-based skills, you can gain skill by using abilities or spells that would normally be too easy. This isn't capped at all. There's an explanation of difficulty-based skills here - keep in mind that moderately difficult (50% success rate or so) abilities have the best chance to earn you skill gains.

Now this: A Bard with 100 Music has Bonus jewelry and starts peacing/discording/provoking. Whether he puts on or off the jewelry he always takes care that he is in the optimal gaining area (i.e. shown by the Skill Tutor Statuette). Are the gains in both cases equally fast?
(Or you could take this example: A Tamer has 80 real skill in Taming and has +20 jewelry. Whether he puts on or off the jewelry he tames pets with the proper Taming difficulty (55 at 80 and 75 at 100).)

The way I see it is that the gain speed is the same as long as the difficulty is the same. So I would say the gains are based on the real skill. At least I made this experience in different skills. Other players obviously made contrary experiences though. But I would prefer a less emiricistic and more logically consistent explanation for this. Is there any? Did the Devs affirm either standpoint in the past? Maybe on a Town Hall?

 

[AtlanteanAngel]

If one's magery level is 80, and keeps fizzing at a level 8 spell; he equips an item with +20 magery, and manages to cast a level 8 spell easily; does he gain in skill rapidly because he's real skill is only 80, but he managed to cast a level 8 spell at only 80 real skill?

It's an interesting math programming question, though for most players with already fully developed chars it doesn't matter much. Personally for all my chars, I've always used mage weapons (to fight monsters) to train magery all the way to 120, without the use of reagents or an LRC suit.

 

[Katlene]

Try this, I did it with my tamer to test it out a long time ago.
Open your skill sheet, click on show real. Have your skill maxed out.

As an example my taming for real was lets say 107 and I had on 2 +15 jewels, which took me to 120.
Clicking show real displayed the 107
I went and tamed a bull and the real skill went 107.1

But nothing showed up on the screen where it usually does for skill gains. Because it cannot show it higher then you are capped at.

 

[Rix/\]

I'm too lazy to do the math for ya, but I feel where a tailoring tailsman given 25% helps with success on crafting the item. Idealy you want to craft items that give 50-75% chance so if I'm at a point where I reaching that slow gain period cause the item success is 80% or higher and the next higher up item is a success chance 35% I use the tailsman. Bringing it up to 60% and it helps alil to get the gains till the item is at 50%+ without the tailsman. Understand what I'm saying? it's still early and I have no coffee.

 

[Nenime]

Yes, Sir. Even without coffee

But the question is still: do you gain equally fast or slower with jewelry on? I believe with Talisman is another thing because it raises you crafting chance but not the skill itself.

See, when you get discorded you gain faster because the skill is supressed. Does this mean in reverse that when you put on jewelry you gain slower? I think not because jewelry only raises the skill virtually while discording lowers the real skill too.

I know, hard stuff to think about early in the morning. Sorry *rushes to pour another cup of coffee*

 

[Rix/\]

your gonna gain faster at certain lvls like faster between the lvls of 30-50 then you will at 50-70 and it gets slower as your skill is higher. I get to certain points where I'm stuck at like 66 so I pop on the jewls gain till my true skill is now 70 then take'm off train till it slows like around 85 pop them back on. I've had times where I capped skill at 120 with jewelry and having real skill say 98 and gain faster with my jewels on then grinding it at true skill. This is what I've found through the years of training chars. But this method is for like Bard skills and Magic skills. Combat skills I believe are diff with jewelry I never tried, and I personally think training on a golem is the lamest/noobish way to train. Take that weapon to a champ spawn lock down all skills except your weapon skill and start pounding mobs by time champs done you gain quite abit.

But in all honesty I feel theres certain times of the day or even a certain days that just doesn't want you to gain. These are just theories I came up with since theres such a lack of info for UO I do alot of my own trail and error.

 

[Nenime]

Lack of info? Not anymore. We are the United Brainacs of Stratics. *proud* We have an answer for everything!

Errr... we do have, don't we? - Um, well, Jeremy, could you please give us a hint?

 

[Jeremy]

It probably depends on the skill - there are a couple of different types of skill that use different logic on when to gain. I'd have to do some research for a more definitive answer, though.

 

[Rix/\]

Lack of info? Not anymore. We are the United Brainacs of Stratics. *proud* We have an answer for everything!

Errr... we do have, don't we? - Um, well, Jeremy, could you please give us a hint?

Seriously in the past 3yrs the content of UO has grown alot. The content here on stratics is'nt kept up to date. Now I'm not trying to knock down stratics or it's mods and I appreciate the info they provide. But as far as the Dev's and UO staff, it would be more helpful to newer players and returning old players if they provided a more detailed accessable list of the content old and new. I can find changes thats happened the past month or two but I left the game a year ago and alots changed and trying to catch up on simple things like where the moongate in haven got moved to. Or where do I get one those dread steeds, or if they are even available to get. Or some warning there was changes to idocs and placing after they fell. And some details about taming a greater dragon I didn't even know they exsisted till I decided to gather some leather and found out the hard way. Whats their taming requirements?

is there a job opening for these in UO?

 

[Nenime]

It probably depends on the skill - there are a couple of different types of skill that use different logic on when to gain. I'd have to do some research for a more definitive answer, though.

Could you do this? That would be so cool. Because at least for Barding skills and Taming this is a very important question and is asked frequently. I would like to give a better answer in the future than "Well, I think that...".

Yes, Rix, I know what you mean. The informantion could be more... opulent. But to me finding out 'secrets' and sharing them is quite fun too. Whether this secrets can be regarded as part of the depth of UO or simple the idleness of some... *bites on tongue* can't say anything more or I don't get the information about gaining *hugs Jeremy*

 

[athos_uo]

Cf. these pages:The Talisman bonus and the skill gain
The difference of the chance of skill gain between success and failure in making items by crafting
装備でスキル値を変動させた場合のスキル上昇の仕方<- sorry, this is in Japanese. If you would like to read, use translator.
babelfish translation:Manner of skill rise when it fluctuated skill value with equipment

 

[Righteous]

I have been working on several skills over the past couple of months and I have made two observations.

1) The time between GGS .1 gains is based on what your skill is including the jewelery when you made your last gain.
2) Being discorded or using items that subtract skill points increases your chances to make gains and decresses the time between GGS gains.

Righteous