Building a pre-patch white wyrm

[Flagg]

Right! Instead of ruining yet another pet, figured I'd think this over and ask for your take on this and in general, move with caution.


Basically, a pre-patch White Wyrm with 737 str. Last I played, I seem to have already given it AI but rest is up in the air. AI&Chiv would prolly make most ouf of that str..Yet,it is prolly best to stick with magery instead of burning those 500 points that switching to Chiv would cost? What would you recommend I do in terms of Abilities and so on?


Here is a pic showing my current plan&fornt page of lore. It is still 4 slots. 20/3/30 regens and resists maxed.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Take DEX up to 150 and drop the stam I have yet to have any creature use stam as I keep all my pets well healed

 

[Flagg]

When it comes to Dex..no can do unfortunately. It is well above that stat intensity cap

 

[Pawain]

Please put the stamina to 150 (thats swing speed!!!) and max the base damage! Then wait for @Khaelor to tell you if you should put Chiv on. (Im sure he will say yes.)

 

[Gardo]

Highly recommend chiv for a legacy wyrm. I have a couple built and they do great damage if built correctly. Besides, you can build a really nice magery wyrm with a current spawn wyrm. Make sure it’s 3-slot, 450ish strength and the color you like. Magery just seems like a waste on a legacy wyrm....

 

[SouthPaw]

I have a pp ww. Made it AI/Chiv and it does very well, highly recommend it. Make sure to max base damage and do 150 stamina.

 

[Khaelor]

Right! Instead of ruining yet another pet, figured I'd think this over and ask for your take on this and in general, move with caution.
Basically, a pre-patch White Wyrm with 737 str. Last I played, I seem to have already given it AI but rest is up in the air. AI&Chiv would prolly make most ouf of that str..Yet,it is prolly best to stick with magery instead of burning those 500 points that switching to Chiv would cost? What would you recommend I do in terms of Abilities and so on?

Couple of things:

Can I have the thought process behind Inferno?

Switching to Chivalry does cost 500 points (plus another 100 for 120 scroll), however scrolling out Magery and Eval intelligence is 300 points, so you are only using another 300 points to do Chivalry.

I conducted some DPS tests back in June on the DPS drones on TC, just published the results on our website.

Chivalry White Wyrm Vs Magic White Wyrm

 

[Pawain]

just published the results on our website.

Very nice. 25% more damage with Chiv. I saw his Chiv WW on TC with the drone. The extra strength makes a difference.

Bless your pets while fighting!

 

[celticus]

Also can one put an AoE on this pet? Like Goo? Or repel? Or it will be counter-purpose for this great pet?
Thanks in advance..(Mine is in the stalls, still trying to make time and plans to train and skill.)

 

[Pawain]

Applies to all pets:

1. Make the base pet correct. Max stam, dex, strength and Max the base damage.
2. AI does more damage than any other special.
3. Chivalry does the most damage for the magic.
4. Scrolls make the pet do more damage.

There are guides for almost all pet types to make the base pet correct. Use them!



Unrelated, I am looking at the pet abilities. Raging breath looks like it does the most damage other than AI.
I have a Red Cu lying around. I think I will make it AI/Raging Breath/Chivalry.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Please put the stamina to 150 (thats swing speed!!!) and max the base damage! Then wait for @Khaelor to tell you if you should put Chiv on. (Im sure he will say yes.)

Is DEXterity or STAMina the speed number? Normally both are the same but with this new system they can be different.

 

[Flagg]

Thanks a ton for all the input, folks! Specially @Khaelor for munching em numbers and gathering some hard data. I wouldn't have guessed the difference to be -that- huge!

I have same question Frodo just asked.. Regarding Pet Swing Speed. Is this determined by stamina, dexterity or both? This WW has its dex sitting at 125 and it won't go up; That 737 Str and 400+ int make it well overcap. Luckily Sta atleast can be put to 150. Is that all it takes to make it swing faster though?


Here is a plan for the same WW outfitted for Chiv. What do you think of this? (Magery 120 is there only to simulate the chiv. scroll)

 

[SouthPaw]

Is DEXterity or STAMina the speed number? Normally both are the same but with this new system they can be different.

Dex= how fast pet can walk. If the pet has over capped STR like PP WW does it cannot go higher than 125, but most pets can get it to 150. A few pets start with over capped dex (najasaurus, rune beetle, Tsuki Wolf), 190 dex is the cap for the fastest walking speed a pet can have, even if the actual dex is higher than that. For example, my naja has over 200 dex, but will move at the same speed as a pet with 190 dex.

Stamina= how fast the pet hits. Faster hits = more damage over time. All pets can get 150 stamina, even if dex only goes to 125. This is one of the most important stats to max. Most people max it to 150 the first training round, which is what I recommend.

It's also recommended to put around 5 points into stamina regen. Sometimes when pet is taking a beating stamina will drop a little which decreases its swing speed.

 

[Khaelor]

Quite a few boss mobs have the ability "Crushing Blow" which will drain stamina, just a 1 point stamina drop from 150 to 149 will drop the animal's attack speed until it's back to 150.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Dex= how fast pet can walk. If the pet has over capped STR like PP WW does it cannot go higher than 125, but most pets can get it to 150. A few pets start with over capped dex (najasaurus, rune beetle, Tsuki Wolf), 190 dex is the cap for the fastest walking speed a pet can have, even if the actual dex is higher than that. For example, my naja has over 200 dex, but will move at the same speed as a pet with 190 dex.

Stamina= how fast the pet hits. Faster hits = more damage over time. All pets can get 150 stamina, even if dex only goes to 125. This is one of the most important stats to max. Most people max it to 150 the first training round, which is what I recommend.

It's also recommended to put around 5 points into stamina regen. Sometimes when pet is taking a beating stamina will drop a little which decreases its swing speed.

I AM NOT disputing you but where did you find this info?

 

[SouthPaw]

I AM NOT disputing you but where did you find this info?

Its been tested by many of us on these boards. Dex is the easiest one to test; if you get a pet with low dex and 1 with high dex, tell them both to follow you and start running, it's very noticeable that 1 with higher dex is faster. I haven't personally tested stamina, but others have. As far as I know it's not documented anywhere on the UO website, but a lot of things aren't.

Dex and Stam are both very cheap to max, no reason not to max them on every pet.

 

[Khaelor]

I AM NOT disputing you but where did you find this info?

We have pages on most attributes on our website, including stamina and dex. Staminas effect on swing speed is pretty easy to test/verify with time stamped Enhanced client logs.

Dex can be tested also in a variety of ways, but also:

Patch 97 Bug Fixes

"Pet movement speed is now capped at 190 dexterity"

 

[Mordha]

Thanks a ton for all the input, folks! Specially @Khaelor for munching em numbers and gathering some hard data. I wouldn't have guessed the difference to be -that- huge!

I have same question Frodo just asked.. Regarding Pet Swing Speed. Is this determined by stamina, dexterity or both? This WW has its dex sitting at 125 and it won't go up; That 737 Str and 400+ int make it well overcap. Luckily Sta atleast can be put to 150. Is that all it takes to make it swing faster though?


Here is a plan for the same WW outfitted for Chiv. What do you think of this? (Magery 120 is there only to simulate the chiv. scroll)

Two things, one I hope that magery scroll is a “placeholder” for the chiv scroll. And two, if that’s the final round and you’ve already “fixed” the resists and added the regens, then put the 5 points into mana. That is assuming this is the final round and you’ve done everything else.

 

[Pawain]

I AM NOT disputing you but where did you find this info?

Tame a Triceratops and see how slow it walks. Train it and put the dex to 150 and it walks faster.
Dragon Wolfs walk slow because the str does not allow the dex to be 150.

Stamina controls Swing Speed just like on toons.

We argued about this when the pet revamp came out.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I just found this
@Pawain @SouthPaw @Khaelor

Melee Fighting – Ultima Online
The cap for dexterity without items is 125, the maximum cap (with items) is 150. Dexterity determines:

• Amount of Stamina a character has
• Swing speed
• Ability to successfully parry
• Time it takes to apply a bandage

Stamina is important for maintaining swing speed, if you lose stamina during a fight your swing speed slows. Every 30 points of stamina lost will slow your swing speed by .25 seconds.

Correct me if I am wrong but to get high SS you need high dex but to maintain it you need to keep your stam no matter what it is. Now the question is do you have the same SS with both at 150 or can you have 150 dex and 125 stam.

 

[Khyro]

I just found this
@Pawain @SouthPaw @Khaelor

Melee Fighting – Ultima Online
The cap for dexterity without items is 125, the maximum cap (with items) is 150. Dexterity determines:

• Amount of Stamina a character has
• Swing speed
• Ability to successfully parry
• Time it takes to apply a bandage

Stamina is important for maintaining swing speed, if you lose stamina during a fight your swing speed slows. Every 30 points of stamina lost will slow your swing speed by .25 seconds.

Correct me if I am wrong but to get high SS you need high dex but to maintain it you need to keep your stam no matter what it is. Now the question is do you have the same SS with both at 150 or can you have 150 dex and 125 stam.

The article is misleading. I believe the intent behind the article saying "Dex controls swing speed" is because as a player, Dex and Stamina are a 1:1 ratio (if you get +5 Dex, you always get +5 Stamina). Pets do not work this way (other than naturally training stats up to 125). If you train Dexterity to 130, Stamina does not also raise, it must be raised independently in advanced training.

As a player, you can also get +Stamina items to go over 150 Stamina (whereas a pet cannot).

Stamina is the only stat for pets that controls swing speed. Players get access to +SSI items as well, but Dexterity does not affect Swing Speed. You could theoretically test this on a player by getting very low Dexterity, and only giving yourself +stamina items and see how your swing speed is affected.

For a Pet though, only stamina will have an effect:
- 150 Stamina, 150 Dex will swing every 1.25s
- 150 Stamina, 125 Dex will swing every 1.25s
- 125 Stamina, 150 Dex will swing every 1.50s
- 150 Stamina, 75 Dex will swing every 1.25s
- 150 Stamina, 200 Dex will swing every 1.25s
- 125 Stamina, 200 Dex will swing every 1.50s

The swing difference may be hard to see in CC, but if you use a custom UI in the EC that does timestamp damage logging, you will see the pet swinging at 1.25s with just 150 stamina.

 

[Khaelor]

Here is a copy of a damage log parse vs a drone with Jorge, my chiv white wyrm. There are no spells he stops to cast so his swings are uninterrupted.

Wyrms are a decent test subject to help verify that it's stamina only as they cannot cap dex at 150.

A 1.25 swing speed would need 150 stamina (120-149 would be 1.5)

Jorge should swing 4 swings every 5 seconds to have a 1.25 swing speed, and by viewing the log, you can see that is the case as every 5th second there is no damage in the log.

 

[SouthPaw]

Great info guys!

Moral of the story, max dex/stam on every pet you have. Very cheap to train and totally worth it.

Just curious, ff I used the necro mastery Command Undead and got a bone dragon with 200 stamina, what would its swing speed be?

 

[Khaelor]

Just curious, ff I used the necro mastery Command Undead and got a bone dragon with 200 stamina, what would its swing speed be?

1.25, pets cannot go below the 1.25 cap

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Quite a few boss mobs have the ability "Crushing Blow" which will drain stamina, just a 1 point stamina drop from 150 to 149 will drop the animal's attack speed until it's back to 150.

Yep. The Macer Captain's down in Blackthorns can really wreck Stamina too, even with Consume Damage running on a pet with 30 SR.

 

[Tatos]

@Pawain @SouthPaw @Khaelor

Two questions :

What is the best resists to set for these legacy white wyrms?
How big of a difference is a 10-15 point swing in Strength and Intelligence?

I'm debating between making resists fairly equal (70s for Phy, Fire, Poison...and 65 energy) or just keeping energy low (75s for the main three and 53 for energy).
Then I have a 15 point lower Strength and 30 point lower intelligence. Intelligence helps with mana regen rate, right?

I'm debating between things I can't change (Str and Int) over things I can change (HPs and Resists). The one with the highest Strength and Intelligence has the lowest Resist total (by 23). So I'm trying to figure out if the higher Strength and Intelligence is worth the higher training costs to resist....and then trying to figure out how to place those resists as well.

 

[SouthPaw]

-Legacy White wyrms cannot get their STR any higher than what they spawn with because it's over the 700 cap. A 10-15 point difference would be pretty low difference in damage, everything else being equal.
-Intelligence does help with mana regen, but not a lot. Can't change this on a legacy WW either.

If you ask a group of people how to set resists you're likely going to get a lot of different opinions. Currently in the game the most common damage types are physical, fire, and energy. For this reason many people will max those 3 resists at 80 and put remaining points in cold and poison. My pets either have 80/80/45/80/80 or 80/80/60/65/80 or 80/75/70/70/70. All 3 work well and have small pro's/con's based on whatever they're fighting. I don't think there's a huge difference between a pet with 75 and a pet with 80 resist considering that damage numbers in UO are relatively low.

 

[Pawain]

I'm debating between making resists fairly equal (70s for Phy, Fire, Poison...and 65 energy) or just keeping energy low (75s for the main three and 53 for energy).
Then I have a 15 point lower Strength and 30 point lower intelligence. Intelligence helps with mana regen rate, right?

Go lore what you want to fight and see what type damage they do. Or search online for their damage info pages. You will find 3 resists that are commonly needed when you lore all the things you want to fight.

I do not understand why someone would not set Phy and fire to 80. Unless you are making something for a specific Mob.

Then I have a 15 point lower Strength and 30 point lower intelligence. Intelligence helps with mana regen rate, right?

Im guessing you are comparing to the picture above.

On a legacy WW the intel dex and str are above caps. You can not increase those. You need to set the resists with any points. Then you can choose Regens maybe HP.

Also increase the Max base damage to MAXimum!

 

[Tatos]

Thanks for the replies, guys. @Pawain @SouthPaw @Khaelor

I apologize that I was a little too vague with my questions. I think I got the answers I needed, but I'll clarify just to be sure.

What I have is 2 legacy White Wyrms. One has 747 Strength and 422 intelligence, but only 258 total resists points to start. The other has only 731 Strength and 388 Intelligence, but has 281 total resist points to start with. So I was trying to weigh if the higher Strength and Intelligence outweighs the lower starting resists (more of the 3002 points to spend to get it up to max resists). The Strength is only moderately higher, but the intelligence was 30 points higher and might give a little extra oomph in mana regeneration.

But I have a little bit of an OCD mind, so sometimes it's hard for me to get past something that others can easily get past, and I just need a little help to get past it. For me, it is the 731 Strength (and a little bit lesser, the 388 intelligence). In my mind, it's FAR inferior to the 747, so I am willing to spend the 69 more points on getting resists to maximum. Of course, that's almost 25 HP; 69 points is a lot to take away from scrolls; and 69 points can make a sizable difference for mana.

So really, I was just asking for input to see if I just needed help getting over my OCD mind...or if 747 Strength is really strongly preferred to 731 Strength.

 

[SouthPaw]

Thanks for the replies, guys. @Pawain @SouthPaw @Khaelor

I apologize that I was a little too vague with my questions. I think I got the answers I needed, but I'll clarify just to be sure.

What I have is 2 legacy White Wyrms. One has 747 Strength and 422 intelligence, but only 258 total resists points to start. The other has only 731 Strength and 388 Intelligence, but has 281 total resist points to start with. So I was trying to weigh if the higher Strength and Intelligence outweighs the lower starting resists (more of the 3002 points to spend to get it up to max resists). The Strength is only moderately higher, but the intelligence was 30 points higher and might give a little extra oomph in mana regeneration.

But I have a little bit of an OCD mind, so sometimes it's hard for me to get past something that others can easily get past, and I just need a little help to get past it. For me, it is the 731 Strength (and a little bit lesser, the 388 intelligence). In my mind, it's FAR inferior to the 747, so I am willing to spend the 69 more points on getting resists to maximum. Of course, that's almost 25 HP; 69 points is a lot to take away from scrolls; and 69 points can make a sizable difference for mana.

So really, I was just asking for input to see if I just needed help getting over my OCD mind...or if 747 Strength is really strongly preferred to 731 Strength.

I think most of us would prefer to keep the one that has more str and int even though the difference will be negligible. What is your plan as far as abilities? AI and Chiv? You should have enough training points, don't put any points into mana until the end. My WW was bugged and started with 0 physical resist and I still have enough TP to do 120 all scrolls, AI/Chiv, 550 HP, and around 750 mana-if I could do it over again I would've gone with 600 HP and less mana. Anyways, the point is if your plan is AI/chiv and full scrolls, you should have enough training points for both of them.

 

[Pawain]

When I look at a Cu, I just look at HP. The resists have to be set anyway. Not an accurate method but, the resists have to be set anyway. Have not found one with 530 HP that can get over 600 HP when maxxed.

So you can use that approach with the strength. It increases base damage and Chiv damage.

 

[Zorminius]

Unrelated, I am looking at the pet abilities. Raging breath looks like it does the most damage other than AI.
I have a Red Cu lying around. I think I will make it AI/Raging Breath/Chivalry.

What about Lightning Force instead of Raging Breath? Also, what about adding HPR, SR, MR to the build?

 

[Pawain]

Man that was an old reply I made. You should not add anything but AI/Chiv to the WW.

Also you should make a new thread and post the stats so someone can help you build it properly.