BODs - why am I still getting junks??

[sirion]

Hi UO team,
you need to remove the shield BODs, whatever helm BODs, female armor BODs ASAP for starters.

Whatever the patch that took place already a year(?) ago on the BOD change, I just dont see any difference. After a full day's repeating the filling & turn-in process yesterday for the first time after call it a quit over the constant frastration of getting decent BODs, my conclusion is: I'll try again in 6 months.

When I finally get a decent color BOD, it is often a SHIELD BOD. NICE. That just ruins the already slim chance for a valorite hammer. So far I'm still far away from filling a valorite hammer on my own. I'm not a newbie who doesn't know those tricks of getting things done if you what I mean. I've filled some b-kits regularly over the years when I am in the mood for the bore. But this smithy BOD is just bad as before. 2000 small bods a day, and not a valorite/verite platemail bod??

This is year 2009 February and UO is still showing strong sign of extremely impressive...slow progress.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Hi UO team,
you need to remove the shield BODs, whatever helm BODs, female armor BODs ASAP for starters.

Whatever the patch that took place already a year(?) ago on the BOD change, I just dont see any difference. After a full day's repeating the filling & turn-in process yesterday for the first time after call it a quit over the constant frastration of getting decent BODs, my conclusion is: I'll try again in 6 months.

When I finally get a decent color BOD, it is often a SHIELD BOD. NICE. That just ruins the already slim chance for a valorite hammer. So far I'm still far away from filling a valorite hammer on my own. I'm not a newbie who doesn't know those tricks of getting things done if you what I mean. I've filled some b-kits regularly over the years when I am in the mood for the bore. But this smithy BOD is just bad as before. 2000 small bods a day, and not a valorite/verite platemail bod??

This is year 2009 February and UO is still showing strong sign of extremely impressive...slow progress.

Hang in there. Those items are meant to be as easily obtained as they are, especially for the legit player. It will come.

 

[Dragkiris]

I tend to get about 3-4 keepers (ones to fill to get good hammers...gold and up) from every 100 I do.

 

[Basara]

Here's the Smith BOD breakdown

GM Smith
Was SUPPOSED to get 60% exceptional, 40% normal, from the earliest days of the system - this appears to have been broken by the February 2008 changes.
92% small, 8% Large
50% Weapons / 50% Armor
Note that 11 of the 24 possible Armor BOD smalls are non-combinable!
***everything above this like is supposed to be same for 110 & 120 Smiths***

70-109.9 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 50% Iron, 50% colored
110.0-119.9 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 35% Iron, 65% colored
120.0 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 10% Iron, 90% colored

tests, using 2500 BODs, show these numbers (other than the normal/exceptional ratio, which appears to be broken to give the 50/50 pre-GM ratio) to be holding up exactly as advertised.

Most colored Normal BODs are junk, unless you're turning them in for POF.

Therefore...

for a 120 Smith, half the BODs are automatically new-BOD-turn-in fodder (weapons)
11/24 of what's left are non-combinables.

That leaves 27.083(3333....)% of the BODs being armor combinables.
1/10 of those are iron at 120 Smith (1/2 at GM, 7/20 at 110 - but we're doing the math of a 120, for now).

That reduces the percentage to 24.375%

Of these, half are normals, and worthless for large rewards, for the most part (the exceptions are POFs, 10% anvil chances, with a few of the highest-end larges giving bronze & gold runics - but are just as rare, parts wise, as the Agapite-Valorite hammers to fill, and use the same metals).

That leaves 12.1875% as colored, combinable, exceptional BODs.

Of these, the vast majority are junk for larges, and give better rewards for the smalls (especially DC Ex 20, Shadow Ex 10&15, Gold & Agapite Ex 15 (anvil chances), and Bronze hammers starting at Agapite 20 Ex).

Gold Hammers start at Agapite Ringmail 20 Ex large, Gold Chainmail 20 Ex Large, and Copper Platemail Ex 20 Large.
Whether on considers an ASH +30 to be a high reward or not, further influences that tiny remainder of "good" BODs.

I don't agree with the above poster often, but yeah, you should only be expecting 3-4 good combinables on average, out of each hundred.

 

[rwek]

Thats why it doesnt pay to fill bods.


Let the cheaters do it and buy the hammers...

 

[Farscape]

Here's the Smith BOD breakdown

GM Smith
Was SUPPOSED to get 60% exceptional, 40% normal, from the earliest days of the system - this appears to have been broken by the February 2008 changes.
92% small, 8% Large
50% Weapons / 50% Armor
Note that 11 of the 24 possible Armor BOD smalls are non-combinable!
***everything above this like is supposed to be same for 110 & 120 Smiths***

70-109.9 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 50% Iron, 50% colored
110.0-119.9 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 35% Iron, 65% colored
120.0 skill: Of the Armor BODs, 10% Iron, 90% colored

tests, using 2500 BODs, show these numbers (other than the normal/exceptional ratio, which appears to be broken to give the 50/50 pre-GM ratio) to be holding up exactly as advertised.

Most colored Normal BODs are junk, unless you're turning them in for POF.

Therefore...

for a 120 Smith, half the BODs are automatically new-BOD-turn-in fodder (weapons)
11/24 of what's left are non-combinables.

That leaves 27.083(3333....)% of the BODs being armor combinables.
1/10 of those are iron at 120 Smith (1/2 at GM, 7/20 at 110 - but we're doing the math of a 120, for now).

That reduces the percentage to 24.375%

Of these, half are normals, and worthless for large rewards, for the most part (the exceptions are POFs, 10% anvil chances, with a few of the highest-end larges giving bronze & gold runics - but are just as rare, parts wise, as the Agapite-Valorite hammers to fill, and use the same metals).

That leaves 12.1875% as colored, combinable, exceptional BODs.

Of these, the vast majority are junk for larges, and give better rewards for the smalls (especially DC Ex 20, Shadow Ex 10&15, Gold & Agapite Ex 15 (anvil chances), and Bronze hammers starting at Agapite 20 Ex).

Gold Hammers start at Agapite Ringmail 20 Ex large, Gold Chainmail 20 Ex Large, and Copper Platemail Ex 20 Large.
Whether on considers an ASH +30 to be a high reward or not, further influences that tiny remainder of "good" BODs.

I don't agree with the above poster often, but yeah, you should only be expecting 3-4 good combinables on average, out of each hundred.

And if you have a +30 Ancient hammer in your hand does this have any affect or is it just me getting far more coloured bod than simply 120 smith just a question?

 

[Winker]

Yeah it has to be said, this is a system for scriptors not youre every day player who spends 2-3 hours a day playing.

 

[Setnaffa]

It's funny how some people who don't partake in a part of UO assume you have to be a scripter to do it.

You don't have to script to be a BOD Runner.

It took me 3 years, but I was able to build up 28 GM Smiths/Tailors on two shards. I originally took two of them to Legendary (1 on Napa and 1 on Pacific) in each skill. Since they made the change to Smith BODs about a year ago, I've trained another 12 of my smiths from GM to Legendary.

BOD runs for the 28 smiths takes about 12-15 minutes 3 times a day. OK. Only 2 times a day most of the time now, but either way, I spend no more than 45 minutes a day doing BOD runs.

Those BOD runs give me approximately 100-150 new BODs each day.

I'm on hiatus from doing the BOD turn-ins, but when I do those, I have another 400 or so BODs per week with very little effort (filling iron BODs takes about 30 minutes a day).

I'm sure there are plenty of BOD scripters out there, but then some people script pretty much every part of this game - mining, healing, taming, pot chugging, whatever.

 

[Sharantyr]

Could be worse. Imagine having to do heartwood quests for smith and tailor runics. Actually I've given up collecting BODs. I like the BOD system but think the runic results are a bit mad. A legendary smith that doesn't know what he/she will end up with?

 

[El Phantasmo]

If I recall correctly, didn't Wilki, prior to leaving UO when the Virginia move happened, state he had a proposed fix/correction for the BOD system? Guess it never was seriously considered?

 

[Basara]

This IS the fix - it occured just after the move. It just didn't happen like Wilki thought it would, as no proposal ever gets implemented without heavy modification. However, it's a vast improvement over what there was before. In the 2500 BODs in my test, I got more Verite & valorite hammer smalls combined, than gold-Valorite hammer BODs in the 5 years before the changes!

An ASH SHOULDN'T affect BOD pulls, if it is set up like the switch from iron only to colored & iron is at 70 skill - but I've not tested it - ASH might very well affect the 2/2008 changes, since different people coded it.

Lastly, with the ability to get a new BOD, each time you turn in BOD (a change made 4 years ago, as of April), there's no need to script BODs at all. Setnaffa's right; anyone willing to make BOD runs can easily get more, better, BODs, simply by putting in an hour or two a day.

Example: Say, you get 100 BODs in a week (1 120 smith getting 2 a day, 4 other characters with 0.1 blacksmith, able to get 1/hour, only making 3 runs a day on average).

The 86 BODs from the 0.1 characters will all be iron normal smalls. Your 120 smith's 14 BODs will be (on average) 4 iron normals, 4 iron exceptionals, 4 colored non-combinables, 3 colored combinable smalls, and 1 colored large.

You can fill the normal iron BODs by simply buying items off NPCs (though you'll have to go visit a weaponsmith for the war forks - all other weapons can be gotten from blacksmiths, and the armor can be gotten off armorers and some blacksmiths); you should be able to buy most the items from just the Luna & Umbra shops. Exceptional items should be easy to make (30-60 seconds per BOD). The colored non-combinables and any colored combinables whose rewards suck, can be filled quickly as well.

That will give you at least 96 BODs to turn in with the 120 smith. Turn each in one at a time, getting a BOD back. I can do this so quickly, by hand, that people have accused me of scripting! You dump (or sell back) the sturdy shovels & picks (and the other tools if you want - the prospectors tools are bought by the tinker), as needed.

This will give you about 48 more weapon BODs (half exceptional), 4 iron armor combinables, 20 colored combinables (including larges), and 24 non-combinables.

Repeat the process with those 50-75 BODs other than the colored combinables (a little slower, with there being a lot more exceptional weapon BODs, but not much). Each time, you'll be getting about 20% colored combinables.

Doing this 2-4 times will get you down to about 20-30 BODs still to fill (and 70-80 colored combinables to sort), and you go back to BOD running for a week to get back up to 100-120 for the next run.

The only reason I'm not working on my BODs right now, is that my guildies keep dragging my tamer in training to Ilshenar champ spawns whenever I log in....

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Agreed. I've found that since the "turn one in, get a new deed" change, all I really need is a "seed" of 200 - 300 BODs.

Sometimes I buy the items needed for the junk BODs, however right now what I'm doing is PvMing mainly either ant lions or ant infiltrators for metal "junk" items which are used either to fill the normal iron small deeds or resmelted for the iron to fill the exceptional deeds.

I fill the deeds, turn in, get new ones, separate, and continue until I run out of "junk deeds and am left with combinable deeds. Then I sort the combinable deeds, fill the large deeds I can, turn in and build up the next batch of 200 - 300 deeds via a couple of extra characters that pick one or two deeds up a day each.

While it isn't nearly as fast numberswise as simply scripting BOD pulls, it ends up a bit more efficient overall IMO.

As for the rewards, I use the mining tools to mine in Cove Fel for the colored ore I need, I have a stash of garg picks so those and the lower end gloves get sold back, the rest I'm stockpiling either to sell or to use once SA comes out to churn out items to use as embue candidates or embue material (iron construction, base candidate or material on mod distribution).

Scripting really isn't necessary for BODs anymore.

 

[It Lives]

Bods have been a complete JOKE from the start. Bored to tears in the first month.

The rewards were cheapened not long after with the doom stretched hide.

Scripters have made a mockery of the system.

The reward cloth is a joke, they have not changed colors since inception(how many y EA rs)?

Honest players have to have two or more accounts of nothing but bod runners to even begin to compete/...

 

[Basara]

Bods have been a complete JOKE from the start. Bored to tears in the first month.

The rewards were cheapened not long after with the doom stretched hide.

Scripters have made a mockery of the system.

The reward cloth is a joke, they have not changed colors since inception(how many y EA rs)?

Honest players have to have two or more accounts of nothing but bod runners to even begin to compete/...

You know, maybe you ought to learn to read, before you make a fool of yourself with a reply?

1. You're describing your opinion of the Tailor system, when the entire thread has been about the SMITH system, till your post.

2. Furthermore, you stated your opinion of it after the first month, when the system is radically different now. The first changes were reward level changes made a year or two after your getting "bored" with it. Then, the 2005 turn-in changes. Lastly, the changes of 2008, the smith parts which don't even come into play in your rant against the Tailor system.
The one 2008 change to the Tailor system (intensities on runics) made it to where it is now PROFITABLE to make items with horned kits, and even SPINED kits(if all you're going for is a 70 physical LRC suit with High luck). I made 5 pieces last week with Horned runics, that had 70+ reslsts, plus 1 other property. If I sold crap in Luna, at Luna prices, I'd get back several times the value of the Horned kit from each one.

3. Setnaffa, Dermott & myself completely debunked your script BS and your "two or more accounts" BS, before you even started typing your reply. In fact, most multi-account operations doing BODs seriously reduced their numbers of active accounts with the 2005 changes - had you actually read the Smith & Tailor forums during that period, you'd know that probably half to 3/4 of the accounts that existed solely for BOD gathering were CLOSED by their owners, by the END OF 2005, from the ability to turn in BODs for new ones making them unneeded.
I personally have 3 accounts - 1 smith on my main, 3 tailor/smiths (one my carpenter with only the minimums for the add-ons) on my second account (and I inherited that account from a friend that left), and 2 on a third account (again, an inherited account, this one being the one that holds the THB house). Even if ALL those characters were on one account, it still wouldn't take up all the character slots, and I STILL have more tailor runics than I can use (I just burned 3 barbed and 3 horned runics on a suit for my tamer last week, for the hell of it).

4. The same statements of how scripting isn't needed for the smith BODs, goes 100 times more for tailoring.

A. No one says you HAVE to fill the large BODs with the crap rewards (more small BODs to turn in for new ones).
B. ONE IN NINE Tailor BODs fits a Barbed kit Large. In fact, doing the BOD shuffle as described above still only results in about 1 in 25 smalls pulled being a Barbed kit small. Compare this to about 1 in 1000 SMITH BODs for a valorite hammer (or 1 in 400 for valorite & verite hammers combined).
C. It's so much EASIER for a tailor that's not scripting to get Barbed kits since the ability to "cycle" unwanted ones for new ones, that it actually makes people like you have have ZERO knowledge of how the system has worked since 2005 to automatically scream "scripter!" at someone with 1 real crafter, and 0.2 assigned to each of their other characters for BOD running (0.1 tailor, 0.1 smith).

5. With the exception of the highest end colors, most BOD reward cloth is used by non-scripters to make their job EASIER, as they have to make/buy much less cloth to fill their BODs. Frankly, Smiths wish that their sturdy tool rewards were replaced with ingots, to make their lives so easy. And, having gone through most of the data on uo.com related to crafting (including publish notes and the proposals for the Tailor BOD system, I don't ever remember seeing anything where even SUGGESTING that the BOD reward cloth colors would ever be changed). Complaining about the cloth colors is getting even MORE off the subject.

 

[Shioni]

Ive been getting great stuff with my gm smith, but my legendary tends to get crappy ones. I think it might be a bug or something :/

 

[greatpumpkinator]

...it took me 8 years to get a legitimate Val Hammer LBOD filled...sooo, hang in there......?

...yeah, that took forever...but I'm keeping my hammer with 1 charge as deco for posterity.

 

[It Lives]

You know, maybe you ought to learn to read, before you make a fool of yourself with a reply?

1. You're describing your opinion of the Tailor system, when the entire thread has been about the SMITH system, till your post.

2. Furthermore, you stated your opinion of it after the first month, when the system is radically different now. The first changes were reward level changes made a year or two after your getting "bored" with it. Then, the 2005 turn-in changes. Lastly, the changes of 2008, the smith parts which don't even come into play in your rant against the Tailor system.
The one 2008 change to the Tailor system (intensities on runics) made it to where it is now PROFITABLE to make items with horned kits, and even SPINED kits(if all you're going for is a 70 physical LRC suit with High luck). I made 5 pieces last week with Horned runics, that had 70+ reslsts, plus 1 other property. If I sold crap in Luna, at Luna prices, I'd get back several times the value of the Horned kit from each one.

3. Setnaffa, Dermott & myself completely debunked your script BS and your "two or more accounts" BS, before you even started typing your reply. In fact, most multi-account operations doing BODs seriously reduced their numbers of active accounts with the 2005 changes - had you actually read the Smith & Tailor forums during that period, you'd know that probably half to 3/4 of the accounts that existed solely for BOD gathering were CLOSED by their owners, by the END OF 2005, from the ability to turn in BODs for new ones making them unneeded.
I personally have 3 accounts - 1 smith on my main, 3 tailor/smiths (one my carpenter with only the minimums for the add-ons) on my second account (and I inherited that account from a friend that left), and 2 on a third account (again, an inherited account, this one being the one that holds the THB house). Even if ALL those characters were on one account, it still wouldn't take up all the character slots, and I STILL have more tailor runics than I can use (I just burned 3 barbed and 3 horned runics on a suit for my tamer last week, for the hell of it).

4. The same statements of how scripting isn't needed for the smith BODs, goes 100 times more for tailoring.

A. No one says you HAVE to fill the large BODs with the crap rewards (more small BODs to turn in for new ones).
B. ONE IN NINE Tailor BODs fits a Barbed kit Large. In fact, doing the BOD shuffle as described above still only results in about 1 in 25 smalls pulled being a Barbed kit small. Compare this to about 1 in 1000 SMITH BODs for a valorite hammer (or 1 in 400 for valorite & verite hammers combined).
C. It's so much EASIER for a tailor that's not scripting to get Barbed kits since the ability to "cycle" unwanted ones for new ones, that it actually makes people like you have have ZERO knowledge of how the system has worked since 2005 to automatically scream "scripter!" at someone with 1 real crafter, and 0.2 assigned to each of their other characters for BOD running (0.1 tailor, 0.1 smith).

5. With the exception of the highest end colors, most BOD reward cloth is used by non-scripters to make their job EASIER, as they have to make/buy much less cloth to fill their BODs. Frankly, Smiths wish that their sturdy tool rewards were replaced with ingots, to make their lives so easy. And, having gone through most of the data on uo.com related to crafting (including publish notes and the proposals for the Tailor BOD system, I don't ever remember seeing anything where even SUGGESTING that the BOD reward cloth colors would ever be changed). Complaining about the cloth colors is getting even MORE off the subject.

I am hard pressed to feel the fool, my opinion on the system goes for both tailoring and smithing.

No one(not me) was pointing fingers of (your scripting).

Alas you cant tell me honestly that the system isn't being abused by scripter's.

The bod System is a JOKE period. * Radically different, ha!*

* I have a 120 smith and tailor and use them quite often That is on just one account. I am very much in the KNOW...of bods and how they work.*

My reply was not in any way directed at your geekness on the fine details but rather at the op's post on why the bods system isnt kicking out any thing decent for him. The system sucks. IMO


* Also if you actually believe its easier for the non scriptor / mabey in a short time span sure.
Over time however the scripter wins.*

whats to stop a scripter from cycling after 1000 bods are pulled?

A scripter is still doing far less/no work compared to a legit player.

Is the person not a scripter if he does half the work by hand the other half by script?

Really at the end of it all should I have to have x# of accounts and cycle through 1000's of bods to get a nice reward in a reasonable amount of time?

I love crafting too.... so Peace its not personal.

I prefer the taste of butter.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Ive been getting great stuff with my gm smith, but my legendary tends to get crappy ones. I think it might be a bug or something :/

Exactly the same for me! My Leg smith gets the worst bods. All sorts of weapons while the GM ones pulls better all the time. Ok she sometimes gets PoF bods but thats all.

 

[Warpig Inc]

All the number crunching is great. And I have done thousands of BODs and was on the regular run with my 9 mules. 3 months ago I got my first val hammer BOD. Ya have scripting someplace because all those colored BODs to do mean the ingots came from someplace. And vals have gone from 50mil to 12 mil thanks to the duping. Not to hard to find someone decked out in val made armor without the makers name now. Or a vendor stocked with 7+ burned hammers worth of armor. There is no fix for the BODs system. Saying its broke is like saying she is a little pregnant. Every runic made item and every runic needs to be wiped from the game. Then the whole crafter lot needs to be policed. Fresh start before the Imbueding comes out. Can have like the Australian gun turn in but a runic turn in points for rewards. Every account that turns in more then a few vals or heartwood runics gets nuked. It's a no brainer like a vendor with over 350k in ingots that restocks in a week. After week. Noone that pokes mountains that much has their right hand on the mouse. My UO day ends when the batteries need recharge on the mouse. 14-16 hours. Its good to be retired.

 

[Gheed]

I have done tons of BoDs and my findings pretty much match Basara's. I have posted it many times but here's the chart again from 4k BoD's sampled from a legendary smith just after the latest update:

I have stopped tallying results after this because it drags the process out greatly. I think the sample was enough to give me a solid picture of what to expect. I have also been on haitus from collecting BoDs for a long time.

I don't think the numbers are too bad. Shield BoD's are high and the EX vs Non-EX ratio should be improved slightly as pointed out in previous posts.

Since the mining nerf I pretty much throw out anything exept high end/PoF rewards and normal weapon smalls. I really liked the BoD changes but coupled with the mining changes, small colored turn-ins for another BoD are obsololete.

But I don't think Devs should be fiddling with the formula anymore. It is nearly perfect. And no matter how much it is tweaked, there will always be threads pointing out descrepencies.

Instead I think we should have an addition to the system that makes each and every BoD reward just a little bit more valueble:

1. The SA expansion should add an NPC Gargoyle that is just infatuated hording with BoD rewards. So much so that he is willing to trade rare imbuing ingredients for BoD rewards. ex: 10 sturdy shovels = 1 common imbuing item.

2. The expansion should also reveal the non-gargoyle NPC that is making all of these original BoD rewards that is equally infatuated with imbuing ingredients. Thus prompting him/her to trade lower end imbuing items 10 to 1 for the next BoD reward on the scale.

If you spend enough time juggling rewards between the two you can eventually receive the highest reward in one of the two NPC's highest categories. A Valorite hammer vs Uber high end imbuing ingredient: 1 use elixer that makes a single imbued item repairable.

Heck even impliment a fame/karma sort of system require for higher end trades that is raised by one NPC and lowered by the other. Couple that with minimum skill requirements for turns-in related to the craft. Ex: you must be a legendary imbuer/mystic(?) to receive high end imbued items from the Gargoyle NPC and you must be legendary smith/arms lore to receive high end items from the Non-Gargoyle NPC.

This works well with the mining changes by making all rewards valuable and giving more incentive to mine all ore types without placing too great of a benefit to any specific resource. Common ores become equally in demand as rare ores because there are more common BoD's to fill than rare. Turn-ins have always been popular. With this system you can spend a great deal of time getting the high end item without saturating the market with them.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I've been fine with the mining change.

The change really tends to favor the strip-mine with fire beetle mindset over the "targeted vein" mindset.

I've found I've had much less competition for veins in the area I mine now that the targetted scripts are basically defunct.

As for getting the metal types, it hasn't been that much of a problem to me... I generally have a Prosp tool to work with and sometimes use garg picks on top of it, so I have up to 3 ore colors per vein availible just based on the day's distribution.

Some days I get a lot of higher end ore, somedays less, but overall, it's been a good distribution.

The only thing I wish I still had was the Britain guard zone f`or mining ore elems in West Brit in Fel (the mountains are away from the NPCs, but a quick "guards" speech macro takes care of any player attacks).

The ones I feel bad for with the changes are the lumberjacks, mining isn't really a problem.

Basically, mining seems to be a lot more in line with the BOD distribution as a whole. The question is "What are they wanting to do with higher level ore" in general with SA that they made the change to make/keep it rare.

 

[Gheed]

...

I've been fine with the mining change.

The change really tends to favor the strip-mine with fire beetle mindset over the "targeted vein" mindset.

I've found I've had much less competition for veins in the area I mine now that the targetted scripts are basically defunct.

As for getting the metal types, it hasn't been that much of a problem to me... I generally have a Prosp tool to work with and sometimes use garg picks on top of it, so I have up to 3 ore colors per vein availible just based on the day's distribution.

Some days I get a lot of higher end ore, somedays less, but overall, it's been a good distribution.

The only thing I wish I still had was the Britain guard zone f`or mining ore elems in West Brit in Fel (the mountains are away from the NPCs, but a quick "guards" speech macro takes care of any player attacks).

The ones I feel bad for with the changes are the lumberjacks, mining isn't really a problem.

Basically, mining seems to be a lot more in line with the BOD distribution as a whole. The question is "What are they wanting to do with higher level ore" in general with SA that they made the change to make/keep it rare.

Do you use your mined rarer ores to fill colored junk BoD's for turn in? If so you are the dedicated extreme. My posted chart nets one BoD needed for a val hammer in 4000 BoD's turned in. So thats roughly 30k BoD/Val. Are you saying you are comfortable RNGing all that ore?

And the reason you find much less competition is that with basically all ore types available on all nodes, scripting can be done in obscure less frequented locations almost undetectable. Definitley not in fel guard zones. Volumes of literally thousands of marked locations can be set, exempting spots with any unwanted activity for long periods of time.

Even when viens were dedicated, fire beetle/pack mining was much more efficient over recall/mine/recall/drop off methods. Thats just safe mode for scripting... which is why it seemed more popular.

But chaining toons to "mine a few hours a day and generally you will have what you need" over "go get what you want when you need it" was a horrible idea. This marked the end of my ingot selling vendor and the end of years of main income for me. Now do a quick search on resource prices and see who the biggest winners were from this foolish change. I bought a 60k oak deed for the slime quests for 270k. Why in the hell would I try to harvest that when I could buy them for so cheap. The next day another 60k deed pops up on the same vendor for the same price.... that fella is really dedicated... And amazing prices to boot.... ya ok.

Community Collections ruined this craft for me forever. Every piece of that system screamed "learn how to script" to any intellegent life form that valued their hands. However it did a better job of making rare ore rare than anything else. Script mining targeted the few choice spots we had and honest mining became much more difficult. But scripting made billions if not trillions from CC.

Before CC I could easily mine nearly any ore type while very rarely seeing anyone else. In fact the only ore spots I found crowded were shadow iron. And that was because scripted shadow heaters were a gold mine (no pun intended). One toon could make millions in a 23 hour period from this. In the end the final answer was nuke it for everyone... thats what will be easiest.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Do you use your mined rarer ores to fill colored junk BoD's for turn in?

Depends on what my ingot supply is at any given time. Basically, priority for filling BODs comes down to:

1. Normal Iron (keeps shovels stocked)
2. Colored combined (DC through Val in the three armor types, I don't mess with iron combines at all)
3. POF singles
4. Exc Iron (either for a new set of pulls, or if I need Prosp tools or garg picks)
5. non-POF colored non-combinables (assuming I have run out of normal and Exc Iron singles and I have the ingots at hand

No argument on CCs though. Where Spring Cleaning did well, CCs failed horribly. The system to turn them in rewards stacked resources over anything else which of course leads to the scripting issue.

For my own mining, I generally run Cove Fel a couple of times a week (2 Prosp tools and 8 sturdy shovels per run until they wear out). I also tend to farm ant lions from time to time. Thirdly I have 3 ore carts that churn out some ore on a daily basis, not a lot, but I haven't smelted any that has been created yet, simply storing as ore and that is building up as well, even in the higher end metals.

Most of my iron deeds are filled either via resmelted junk iron items from PvM or combined directly (I build up a HUGE amount of garbage items, sort, fill, and resmelt the rest occasionally).

It's easier to "stick with it" for me because I do quite a few different activities the end up focusing on the same end goal (filling BODs)... even the event invasions of the towns serve this purpose due to the scrap metal drops there. Also I do things more casually in nature. I'm not worried if someone else is getting more metal or getting BODs faster than I am. I'm happy with the rate I am getting. The biggest advance being the "get a new deed when you turn one in" aspect.

BODs are a lot like fishing up SOSs... you can get them one at a time and in the case of SOSs open them and feel like you're not getting a lot for your effort, or you can build up a lot of them, then turn in/open up and get several higher end deeds or ancient SOSs and feel like you've gotten something out of it. In the end, the outcome is still the same, but the perception is a bit more success-based when you do a batch all at once rather than one at a time.

 

[Gheed]

Not a bad system you have there. I save only the non-ex iron weapon and shield BoDs and a few ex iron smalls for weapons that dont gobble up alot of iron (daggers). I droped all of my GM+ BoD mules to .01 skill to gauruntee small non ex iron junk small and the ability to get one every hour. All other iron or colored junk get tossed on the ground or refused. I can fill non ex iron smalls with stock purchased from NPC's. This plus my runners get more than enough to net me around 1k BoD turn ins/day if I stick with it... which I don't. I figure I could manage at least one val every other month. Which would be extremely profitable for me if I had the discipline to stay with it.

I very rarely mine at all anymore. The time spent mining has been converted into purchasing NPC stock. Which doesn't feel like crafting so much but it's faster then trying to mine what I need.

I recomend NPC BoD turn-ins for compliments to this system because they add just a little value to every reward. It would probably push me to pick up the shovel again to make use of those otherwise discarded BoDs.

It isn't impossible to script (nothing is), but it does slow the automated cycle down especially if NPC's were located in no recall zones... wandering around terrain that severly inhibits pathfinding and/or if a (invisible) fame/karma system opposed the two NPCs. Add in slighty dynamic turn in requests governing turn in values by a combination supply and RNG. Just for kicks thrown in a few dynamicaly built RP scenario-curveballs every now and then if the system detects it is being accesed too frequently:

Turn in NPC: "Ah Yes! These are exactly what I want!" *seems lost in thought* "I just remebered an important errand and must take my leave immediately. Hand these in to my assitant for your reward. He is the the fellow over there with the black pony-tail. The one who isnt wearing any shoes"

*<turn in NPC> leaves. you do not think he will return within the hour.*

These small additions would seem slight to a legit player but would severly bloat code in any scripted attempt to automate. And bloated code promotes slower running software plus it tends to break.

 

[Basara]

My turn-in choices are similar, except for one thing:

For Iron BODs, I currently only keep ones that one of my smiths can gain skill from filling (I plan on all my BOD runners being 120 skill, to reduce my dependency on cycling).

I typically don't keep non-POF smalls (non-combinables or combinables with crap large rewards) except for the one I can gain skill on (one character can still gain on the 3 high helmets and female plate, 2 others can gain on most plate items), and ones with Bronze hammers or ASH rewards, for casual crafting. I sell butchers war cleavers, and burn Bronzes on them for additional qualities in case someone actually wants to use them as a weapon, instead of just cutting leather.

I buy almost all my iron from random Ilshenar Gypsy camps, or towns that the Crimson dragon just left (and therefore the NPCs I buy from always start at 8 GP per ingot, and I never take them over 10 GP). My iron from mining seems to disappear within minutes.

My ratio for Val hammer BODs runs closer to 1 in 1200 (after getting 0 in my first 5 years).

And, if you like fighting ore elementals, one nice way of mining is 8 garg picks, set to target by resource, repeat once, in KR (16 digs per macro) - in Ilshenar. Gives a whoel new meaning to stepping and fetching....

 

[Gheed]

Oh there are some nice tips Basara. I did not realize NPCs reset prices after an invasion. Kind of mentioned in Dermotts post. But I usually mine in fel with a garg axe for double ore and elementals. I auto defend kill most elementals and get a nice bonus. If I'm not in the mood to deal with them I move to an npc heavy guard zone.

The best advantage to the system I have found is a band of zealot collectors to trade with. I have managed to find a few on my shard. But it seems as soon as I do, I loose interest and start doing something else.