[Musicianship] Bard masteries Quests need to be done only once ??

[popps]

Question.

The Quests needed to learn the respective Bard Masteries (for Peacemaking, Provocation and Discordance) need only to be done once to learn them, right ?

Once a Bard has done all 3 of them one is good for life and can swap through The Bard Masteries at will without having to redo the Quests over and over, right ??

 

[Storm]

no you have to do the quest any time you want to change the quests are pretty easy

 

[Storm]

and to answer the next question it was done this way on purpose so people could not just change on the fly

 

[popps]

and to answer the next question it was done this way on purpose so people could not just change on the fly

This is ridicolous and a royal waste of time besides being annoying as hell.

I mean, how many times one may enjoy provoking rabbits on a healer or peacing 5 mongbats or discording 5 goats ???

Not to mention, that for each and every time one does the quest, the quest giver hands out a Book of bard masteries. How many Books are enough ???

This is really incredibly ridicolous. I cannot imagine it was designed to force players to have to do over and over and over the same mindless and stupid quests.

Incredible. I am speechless.

But most incredible even is that Bards did not revolt against this to get it changed.

It should be, do the Quests once and be done with them forever !!!

 

[Tazar]

It was designed to force a choice... like choosing between mage or warrior. If you want to change, you gotta retrain the skills, or in this case, do the quest...

Sorry, but you can't have it all.

 

[popps]

and to answer the next question it was done this way on purpose so people could not just change on the fly

What is wrong about changing bard masteries on the fly ?

I mean, warriors change their weapons a tons of times during a fight and so do mages with spellboks etc. etc.

I do not see the point why Bards could not swap their Bard Masteries depending on the needs.

But even if, better ways could have been found other than forcing players to have to do the same dumb quests over and over.

Supposedly this is a product to entertain players, not to frustrate them with dumb quests to have to be done over and over and over and over and over again.......

This is incredible.

 

[Cirno]

I am speechless.

We can only hope...

 

[popps]

It was designed to force a choice... like choosing between mage or warrior. If you want to change, you gotta retrain the skills, or in this case, do the quest...

Sorry, but you can't have it all.

If it worked well, at least, but it does not even........

I mean, as a Tamer/Bard I "made a choice" to pick the Provocation bard Mastery to benefit my Greater Dragon with the "inspire" Bard mastery +16% Hit Chance, +16% Spell Damage, +40% Melees Damage Increase when fighting Blackrock Golems and want to know what the result was ??

My "choice" actually made the fight go worse and the kill a whole lot slower....

So much for a "choice" that in theory should benefit pets but in practise helps nothing.....

Basically no real results for making "the choice" and a royal pain to change to some other Bard mastery ?

Incredible.

Do Bard Masteries even work for pets, not in theory I mean, but in real in-game combat ????

 

[Storm]

well first thing is are your bard skills in question at max WITHOUT using jewels! if not you may not be running at max effect!
I normally use the peace masteries on my tamer and I do this for the regen effects especially on myself !
I run with a GD and only have 10 stamina so I use the stamina,mana and health regen to keep my stamina up while running this also helps keep my dragons regen up!

just something for you to look at!

 

[popps]

well first thing is are your bard skills in question at max WITHOUT using jewels! if not you may not be running at max effect!

Yes, 120 real skill for each of the 2 skills, musicianship and provocation.

I normally use the peace masteries on my tamer and I do this for the regen effects especially on myself !
I run with a GD and only have 10 stamina so I use the stamina,mana and health regen to keep my stamina up while running this also helps keep my dragons regen up!

I did not try the peace masteries but definately the provocation masteries are worthless.

I went straight to inspire in an effort to considerably cut the fighting time with the greater Dragon. I mean, on paper it sounds very effective. I helps hit chance increase, spell damage and melee damage increase. All areas in which the Greater Dragon fights.
In theory the pet should get a boost for 16% Spell Damage increase, 16% Hit Chance Increase and 40% melee Damage Increase but, as I said, not only I saw nothing of that boost but I actually I experienced my pet doing quite worse than without triggering the inspire Bard mastery.

Basically, worse than worthless since the inspire Bard mastery actually made my Greater Dragon a worse fighter against the Blackrock Golem.
I find this totally inexplicable.

I mean, I could understand that Bard masteries did not help at all, but that they make the fight worse and take longer ??

I just cannot find any logical reason other than the system being bugged for pets, somehow.

 

[Wenchkin]

Popps, did you try searching this forum?

A quick search of "masteries" got me to a post answering your exact question.

Then searching for "pets" will get a whole stack of threads including one about inspire and pets specifically. There are probably more threads relevant to that topic, I just ran a quick search out of curiosity because I remembered seeing those threads before.

Instead of getting angry at the answers others have kindly taken time to provide you with, why not try to find the answers yourself? A bit of searching would explain how the masteries work and their limitations.

Wenchy

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

But most incredible even is that Bards did not revolt against this to get it changed.

They did. There was a multiple page thread on Uhall about it.

3-5 people who were affected by it, said it was stupid that the only thing Bards had been given in 10 years was being needlessly limited.

250-300 people who weren't affected disagreed. and killed the thread by wasting the time of the 3-5 who were affected by having them re-explain why it was a problem until everyone had lost interest or decided it was a lost cause.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Instead of getting angry at the answers others have kindly taken time to provide you with, why not try to find the answers yourself? A bit of searching would explain how the masteries work and their limitations.

Wenchy

He should be angry. It was a stupid system nothing else in UO has & some of us tried to avoid it. We were told by people who didn't give a double whopper with cheese one way or the other, that we should just be grateful for anything.

 

[Wenchkin]

He should be angry. It was a stupid system nothing else in UO has & some of us tried to avoid it. We were told by people who didn't give a double whopper with cheese one way or the other, that we should just be grateful for anything.

I wasn't saying the system was great. I don't think that at all, quite the opposite But if Popps wants answers to questions, that sort of reaction to an answer doesn't encourage players to be helpful. I think it has the opposite effect.

IMO it makes sense to search a forum to see if questions have been asked before, it's much faster than waiting for others to provide the answers. Then start a thread airing grievances or further questions once you've read up on the subject and have a rough idea how things work.

Wenchy

 

[popps]

Instead of getting angry at the answers others have kindly taken time to provide you with, why not try to find the answers yourself? A bit of searching would explain how the masteries work and their limitations.

It is disappointment rather than anger.

I was really looking forward the inspire Mastery to really being meaningfull for a pet and to see how it provides no help whatsoever actually, how it makes the fight worse, was a total disappointment.

Considering that a Greater Dragon casts spells, uses melee fighting and hitting the target the inspire Mastery seemed just perfect for the task.

A boost of +16% spell damage, +16% Hit chance increase and +40% melee Damage Increase seemed to me just about what the Greater Dragon could benefit from to cut down the hour it takes to kill a Blackrock Golem to half hour if not less.

Instead, it helped nothing if not made the fight worse than without using the inspire Bard mastery.

Why say that something is intended for pets and even summoned creatures when in reality this does not happen ??

Really very disappointing.

 

[popps]

IMO it makes sense to search a forum to see if questions have been asked before, it's much faster than waiting for others to provide the answers. Then start a thread airing grievances or further questions once you've read up on the subject and have a rough idea how things work.

Actually, I searched around but it seemed such an absurd limitation that I could not imagine it really worked that way. Besides, things change over time and there is always hope that something which was initially designed in a way I totally disagree with, might have been changed to a better and more player friendly design.

I can never imagine to agree with a system that forces players to have to take quests to provoke rabbits onto wandering healers, or peace mongbats or discord goats over and over and over and over and over again........

Perhaps others may see this endless repetition as fun, I don't.

 

[Wenchkin]

Did you try that pets search and read the thread Logrus was posting in? The usefulness of inspire for pets was discussed before and he checked and verified that it worked with a GD...

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

Actually, I searched around but it seemed such an absurd limitation that I could not imagine it really worked that way. Besides, things change over time and there is always hope that something which was initially designed in a way I totally disagree with, might have been changed to a better and more player friendly design.

I can never imagine to agree with a system that forces players to have to take quests to provoke rabbits onto wandering healers, or peace mongbats or discord goats over and over and over and over and over again........

Perhaps others may see this endless repetition as fun, I don't.

*shrugs* I understand that the devs decided they don't want a multi skilled bard switching masteries on the fly. After all, the clue is in the name "mastery". It probably wasn't intended that bards change mastery frequently.

I don't think it's a great system, but it's not the quests I have issue with.

Wenchy

 

[Stickypaws]

Perhaps others may see this endless repetition as fun, I don't.

Yes... I now remember why I stopped reading your posts... >.>

 

[popps]

Did you try that pets search and read the thread Logrus was posting in? The usefulness of inspire for pets was discussed before and he checked and verified that it worked with a GD...

Wenchy

No, did not bump into that specific topic. Will try doing a specific search for that, thank you.

Still, even if Logrus says it works how can I deny what I can see with my own eyes ???

I mean, I had the inspire Bard Mastery on, set the Dragon to fight and saw no difference whatsoever. It actually was worse than without the mastery on.

I mean, I tried it and I saw it, no difference.

I will make a test with a monster that can heal back (blackrock golems do not heal back or at least do not in any reasonable time....).

This, in order to have all variables constant. Same Greater Dragon, same target and same character using or not the bard mastery.

Will first test without the mastery on and see how much time it takes with a stop watch to bring the health down. Then will let the target heal all the way back and hit again with the mastery on.

If there will be no difference, or if the difference is only marginal, this will be the proof the mastery is not working as I feel.

A Boost of +16% spell damage, +16% Hit chance increase and +40% melee Damage Increase if it really worked with pets should make for a hell of a lot of difference in the time it takes for a klll.

We'll see.

Now I have to find a target that can stand up with the Greater Dragon and can heal back in a reasonable time for the test.......

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I wasn't saying the system was great. I don't think that at all, quite the opposite But if Popps wants answers to questions, that sort of reaction to an answer doesn't encourage players to be helpful. I think it has the opposite effect.

IMO it makes sense to search a forum to see if questions have been asked before, it's much faster than waiting for others to provide the answers. Then start a thread airing grievances or further questions once you've read up on the subject and have a rough idea how things work.

Wenchy

We just had an EM event on Atlantic, another in a long line where every class except Bard skills are viable (despite leaving the same feedback every time). Had I not known that I can't change Mastery on the fly I wouldn't have even been able to scrape rights with the pitiful 20 damage Despairs (& thats WITH Slayer & 360 Bard points).

Given how frequenltly Bards are the only class screwed out of participation I find his reaction entirely understandable.

 

[Wenchkin]

We just had an EM event on Atlantic, another in a long line where every class except Bard skills are viable (despite leaving the same feedback every time). Had I not known that I can't change Mastery on the fly I wouldn't have even been able to scrape rights with the pitiful 20 damage Despairs (& thats WITH Slayer & 360 Bard points).

Given how frequenltly Bards are the only class screwed out of participation I find his reaction entirely understandable.

Well y'know, I'm not arguing against you My 2nd main char is a bard tamer, I could go on for several pages with things I wish were changed.

Anger is perfectly justified, however a mini rant type response when folk answer questions deters others from responding. It just pumps up the thread into a potential flame fight when others get angry at the more volatile responses. Then it gets the thread locked. So a wee pause before hitting submit and a quick bit of post editing can make all the difference.

Wenchy

 

[WarUltima]

I have 3 bards while I swap masteries frequently I find the mastery quests "annoying" but far from tedious.

Other than provo mastery peace and disco masteries quests takes me exactly 2 minutes to finish. And why complain about the mastery book? How hard is it for you to throw away an item in UO? I mean damn... (what I really wanted to say is "wtf u fkn nublet l2p").

Also since Popps denied Logrus's "confirmation" saying inspire works with pets. I would like to see Popps do some test, and record 100 melee damage numbers on the blackrock golem and the time it takes to kill one, then record another 100 melee damage numbers with inspire running. Repeat this test for 5 to 10 different golems to get a more accurate readings.

Then I would like to see some testing done and recorded by popps proving sdi bonus does not work for pets (because apperently according to my tests as well as Logrus it does)...

I know there's no way someone THAT popps would do it. So I dont expect popps doing anything even in the slightest usefulness to anyone. He's just so "popps" that hes as useful as a untrained mongbat to a tamer.

And IMO Barding mastery is not meant to be the I WIN BOTTOM in PvM, and I find them useful. The ones I do think that can use some buff are

Despire: Too low damage especially for the limited duration.

Tribulation: Too low damage, and is actually the only "damage" in game that gets double "mitigated" eg the attacker deals damage to the golem for 300 which gets mitigated by golem's physical resist (1st mitigation) and drops the damage from 300 to 100 and the tribulation takes the 40% of the remaining 100 damage (which is 40) and this damage gets mitigated again... for the mana cost and only 1 proc per sec AND the limited duration per cast its not that useful.

 

[Picus at the office]

I find the only usefull spell is the one that increases regens. I made a support char with 3*120 and 1*100 which gives me 9 regens and similar curse/poison timers to a tick for vamp form. Mana regen on his suit is something around 22(30+with spell cast) and 40 LMC which allows me to keep both spells running if I wanted to or I can heal the party at length if we are tanking a corgul or the like(this guy allows me to solo corguls all day).

I don't run a tamer, nor do any of my guild mates, but in a party setting with decent suited dexxers we were recieving next to no bonus for the 58% melee damage that my spell was to give simply because this does not allow your char to get past the damage cap....lame.

 

[popps]

I have 3 bards while I swap masteries frequently I find the mastery quests "annoying" but far from tedious.

Other than provo mastery peace and disco masteries quests takes me exactly 2 minutes to finish. And why complain about the mastery book? How hard is it for you to throw away an item in UO? I mean damn... (what I really wanted to say is "wtf u fkn nublet l2p").

I do not understand the point of the Quests.

I mean, if they are supposed to be a deterrant for bards to swap masteries then they failed because, as you say, in 2 minutes one can do the related Quest and change Mastery.

But then, if they were made easy to be changed, I do not see the point of having it as necessary to redo the Quests each and every time one changes the Mastery.

I mean, from whichever angle I look at the issue, having the Quests makes no sense.

They wanted Masteries to be a "specialty" for Bards ?

They why not have downtimers ?

That is, a Mastery needs to stick for 24 hours or even 48 at least before one can change it. No need to redo Quests but it would be necessary to wait the timer to expire before another Mastery can be picked.

This, of course, if the wish was to have Bards "stick" with a given Mastery.

The Quests that can be done in 2 minutes are no guarantee of Bards sticking to Masteries and so, play no role to reach this goal.

Also since Popps denied Logrus's "confirmation" saying inspire works with pets. I would like to see Popps do some test, and record 100 melee damage numbers on the blackrock golem and the time it takes to kill one, then record another 100 melee damage numbers with inspire running. Repeat this test for 5 to 10 different golems to get a more accurate readings.

Then I would like to see some testing done and recorded by popps proving sdi bonus does not work for pets (because apperently according to my tests as well as Logrus it does)...

It was my understanding that Logrus, at least from what I read in the post, limited the testing to spells.

I saw no reference either to Hit Chance increase or to Melee Damage difference when having the Mastery on.

So, at this point, I cannot say that those 2 boosts were tested by him. Perhaps they were, but since I could find no mention in the post I just cannot know.
I assume not, otherwise I would imagine they would be mentioned......

I know there's no way someone THAT popps would do it. So I dont expect popps doing anything even in the slightest usefulness to anyone. He's just so "popps" that hes as useful as a untrained mongbat to a tamer.

It is a matter of having the time and patience to do it. I did quite some testing in fishing and posted my results for others to read so, I do not see why, if I get the time to also do this, I do not see why I would not post the results just as well.

And IMO Barding mastery is not meant to be the I WIN BOTTOM in PvM, and I find them useful.

If a Mastery "claims" to be working for any and all pets and any and all summoned creatures and to provide a boost for +16% Spell Damage, +16 Hit Chance Increase and +40 Melee Damage Increase well, then I am expecting that it does what it says.

That is, that it provides those exact bonuses for any and all pets and any and all summoned creatures, Greater Dragons and Rising Colossus included.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

What caused me to make the other thread in the first place was that I could barely see the difference with 360 points. If Popps is using 240 points I'm not surprised he can't see any difference.

I'm not disputing Logrus's test but the numbers difference is pathetic, which means there's no point using it when you could use your mana for something better.

I don't use the Peace ones because they are entirely useless. You can use items for everything they do. 8-11 HPR is 1 HP per second, if you need a pet for something it's typically something that can do more than 1 HP per second.

Having to change mastery is like having a UBWS weapon and still needing to leave to soul stone weapon skills over.

Would it really be that much of a win button to have Despair and Invigorate going at the same time? So you could actually heal some of the counter attack damage you take. I hardly think so given the mana upkeep. Even with 360 points it only heals for 20ish every 2 seconds.

 

[WarUltima]

I do not understand the point of the Quests.

I mean, if they are supposed to be a deterrant for bards to swap masteries then they failed because, as you say, in 2 minutes one can do the related Quest and change Mastery.

But then, if they were made easy to be changed, I do not see the point of having it as necessary to redo the Quests each and every time one changes the Mastery.

I mean, from whichever angle I look at the issue, having the Quests makes no sense.

They wanted Masteries to be a "specialty" for Bards ?

They why not have downtimers ?

That is, a Mastery needs to stick for 24 hours or even 48 at least before one can change it. No need to redo Quests but it would be necessary to wait the timer to expire before another Mastery can be picked.

This, of course, if the wish was to have Bards "stick" with a given Mastery.

The Quests that can be done in 2 minutes are no guarantee of Bards sticking to Masteries and so, play no role to reach this goal.




It was my understanding that Logrus, at least from what I read in the post, limited the testing to spells.

I saw no reference either to Hit Chance increase or to Melee Damage difference when having the Mastery on.

So, at this point, I cannot say that those 2 boosts were tested by him. Perhaps they were, but since I could find no mention in the post I just cannot know.
I assume not, otherwise I would imagine they would be mentioned......



It is a matter of having the time and patience to do it. I did quite some testing in fishing and posted my results for others to read so, I do not see why, if I get the time to also do this, I do not see why I would not post the results just as well.



If a Mastery "claims" to be working for any and all pets and any and all summoned creatures and to provide a boost for +16% Spell Damage, +16 Hit Chance Increase and +40 Melee Damage Increase well, then I am expecting that it does what it says.

That is, that it provides those exact bonuses for any and all pets and any and all summoned creatures, Greater Dragons and Rising Colossus included.

Exactly poppie... you kept on whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining why didnt you do some testing and show that melee hit chance and damage wouldnt work?

If Logrus didnt test it then why dont you? For the record, I tested throwing damage/hit chance and I am the 1st one to post many issue of UO not working properly including the throwing 1st swing always miss and throwing unable to reach cap swing speed of 1.25s... I tested new lumberjacking change, I found out how new LJ works and how LJ crits works again and I am pretty sure I was the 1st to put the info on the board as well.

Now again why the only thing you are useful for is whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining... you know at least on the planet of earth your "usefulness" is usually refereed as "useless".

Again where's your tests numbers 100 swings damages average?/100swings' hits and misses?

Edit:

I will show you an example to get you start with, fkn whiner.
Greater Dragon has a base damage of 24-33 which is an average of 26, 40 increased di means 26*.4 = 10.4 then 10.4 is mitigated by BR Golem's 80ish physical resist which means about two (2) extra damage. Then 2 points extra is usually made "un-noticable" because the wide 24-33 base dmg range of super dragon, how are you so sure it doesnt work when you dont even have a proper test done?

Same for hci and dci bonus especially blackrock golems can have 140 wrestling skill while your dragon probably dont even have 120.

Use your brain, its in your skull for a reason. Learn to use it!

 

[WarUltima]

What caused me to make the other thread in the first place was that I could barely see the difference with 360 points. If Popps is using 240 points I'm not surprised he can't see any difference.

I'm not disputing Logrus's test but the numbers difference is pathetic, which means there's no point using it when you could use your mana for something better.

I don't use the Peace ones because they are entirely useless. You can use items for everything they do. 8-11 HPR is 1 HP per second, if you need a pet for something it's typically something that can do more than 1 HP per second.

Having to change mastery is like having a UBWS weapon and still needing to leave to soul stone weapon skills over.

Would it really be that much of a win button to have Despair and Invigorate going at the same time? So you could actually heal some of the counter attack damage you take. I hardly think so given the mana upkeep. Even with 360 points it only heals for 20ish every 2 seconds.

Then again if you are using a pet then you could use tribulation which will probably yield the highest damage per second which at the sametime weakens the target a little bit.

If you want your pet to survive then use preserverence from peacemaking. And NO that's something items cannot do for you. 16% damage reduction is huge because it works over resist cap (and works on top of stoneform 75 resist).

I know tribulation could have added 500% physical damage instead of 40 and preserverance could have given your pet god mode instead of 16%... but I can see a lot of possibilities... ever tried to take an island with group of myst mages in stone form rocking 170 hp (190hp for dire wolf archers/throwes)? Tell me how insignificant that is and how much more power you want it to be? But then again thats PvP many of you probably do not give a ****.

 

[popps]

I will show you an example to get you start with, fkn whiner.
Greater Dragon has a base damage of 24-33 which is an average of 26, 40 increased di means 26*.4 = 10.4 then 10.4 is mitigated by BR Golem's 80ish physical resist which means about two (2) extra damage. Then 2 points extra is usually made "un-noticable" because the wide 24-33 base dmg range of super dragon, how are you so sure it doesnt work when you dont even have a proper test done?

Same for hci and dci bonus especially blackrock golems can have 140 wrestling skill while your dragon probably dont even have 120.

I do not think it works that way.

I'd much rather check out the time it takes to kill the Blackrock Golem with a Greater Dragon without and then with the Inspire Bard mastery.

If without the Bard mastery if takes, say, 60 minutes to kill one, with the bard mastery on, which adds +40% Melee Damage Increase alone (that is, not counting also the +16% Spell Damage Increase and the +16% Hit Chance Increase which are also boosts "supposedly" provided by the Bard mastery....), then the time to kill should be reduced by 40%, moreless.

That is, one should be able to kill a Blackrock Golem with a Greater Dragon using the inspire Mastery on in 60 - 24 = 36 minutes. About half hour.
And this, as I said, not counting the other 2 bonuses which also should help in shortening the fight....

Well, I tried it out and definately the fight was not only not shortened to a half hour but it pretty much stayed the same as without using the Bard mastery.

To me, this hints that the Bard Mastery is not providing any help. That is, it is not working much......

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

snip

It isn't down to players to test that the game works how the game says it does.

Player tests are much less accurate than the devs who can test using specific scripts and logging tools.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Then again if you are using a pet then you could use tribulation which will probably yield the highest damage per second which at the sametime weakens the target a little bit.

Then if the DI/HCI/SDI is useless on pets because the DPS is not good enough and its largely useless on players because DI and HCI are the first thing any self respecting dexxer caps, then the ability is pretty much useless.

Which is exactly what Popps has said, so again, he isn't wrong.

If you want your pet to survive then use preserverence from peacemaking. And NO that's something items cannot do for you. 16% damage reduction is huge because it works over resist cap (and works on top of stoneform 75 resist).

It's not a case of wanting a pet to survive its a case of wanting Bard masterys to be worth a damn.

Yes you can replicate damage reduction with an Armored Swamp Dragon.
You can also replicate the Cure on first tick ability with petals.
You can also replicate all of the regens with items to a degree higher than you get with the mastery.

So thats Prov & Peace masterys that are pretty much useless.

I know tribulation could have added 500% physical damage instead of 40 and preserverance could have given your pet god mode instead of 16%... but I can see a lot of possibilities... ever tried to take an island with group of myst mages in stone form rocking 170 hp (190hp for dire wolf archers/throwes)? Tell me how insignificant that is and how much more power you want it to be? But then again thats PvP many of you probably do not give a ****.

Get real. Who raids Despise with a Provoker or Peacer. They'd be just as useless there as they are at every event. It'd only take one AI to end any spellsong. Having someone 240 points down if it later spills over into Terrathan Keep, as it often does, would put that side at a pretty big disadvantage open field. They aren't all going to huddle around in the limited area of effect of the Bard because they'd be getting fielded to hell and spammed with Hail Storm.

AND thats just talking about a 240 point Bard, the problem in this thread doesn't even apply to 240 point Bards as they only have one Bard skill. No one would run a 360+ point Bard in PvP, they are the only ones affected by the need to change mastery on the fly. So really this argument has nothing to do with the topic.

Bottom line is right now there is no reason to have to do that quest other than wasting peoples time.

 

[Zero Day]

As I said elsewhere the masteries definitely could use some buffing.

But you and popps whether intentionally or unintentionally choose to focus on the part that suits you and ignore the rest.

Alot of the stuff in the masteries can be duplicated or exceeded by building specialized suits and skill sets.
The point is that they offer the bonuses without having to get those items and skills.
You can ride an armored swampy to take less damage. In which case preservance is a nice thing for Tamers since they usually wont be riding armored swampies, and neither will their pets. Also armored swampies dont work in PvP.

Since I do tend to raid spawns, I surely don't usually find us bringing a bard along. As a defender that may be more likely.
As a defending or god forbid raiding bard, I can give everyone within 8 tiles of me free petals, regen, damage reduction, defense chance increase, casting focus, curse duration reduction, hit chance increase, spell damage increase, damage increase, stats increase, rejuvenation type healing, and up to 26 or something extra HP.

I can hit the groups target with 50% on top of whatever they get hit with, nuke their attack chance, spell damage, strength and hit them with damage ranging from fireball to ebolt every 2 seconds without actually having to keep stopping to cast.

But Hey 1v1 I'm still a minimum of 200 points short of a PvP template so I'm useless. And I'm not a sampire so I cant PvM.


Actually I was gonna continue but then I realized that most of the arguments are obviously coming from people who either don't enjoy playing bards or don't get what's fun about playing a bard.

So I'll bounce outa this thread and start a new one that -bards- will probably appreciate.

 

[popps]

As I said elsewhere the masteries definitely could use some buffing.

I think that the mistake was done when the Bard masteries where designed as a "fit all" type of thing.

I can see how there is a need to keep them under check for PvP purposes, to avoid inbalances in PvP but that screws up their usability for Tamers or Summoned creatures.

Perhaps, the effects of the Bard Masteries should have been applied differently by the game if falling to the benefits of characters or of pets/summoned creatures with pets/summoned creatures getting a considerable better bonus than player played characters.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

As I said elsewhere the masteries definitely could use some buffing.

But you and popps whether intentionally or unintentionally choose to focus on the part that suits you and ignore the rest.

There's a reason for that, it's because "the rest", is not relavent to the topic.

Alot of the stuff in the masteries can be duplicated or exceeded by building specialized suits and skill sets.
The point is that they offer the bonuses without having to get those items and skills.
You can ride an armored swampy to take less damage. In which case preservance is a nice thing for Tamers since they usually wont be riding armored swampies, and neither will their pets. Also armored swampies dont work in PvP.

This for example. You've said the same stuff I was saying in reply to a off topic point by War Ultima several posts ago, it has nothing to do with changing a mastery on the fly. Just because I felt inclined to address his point does not make it the topic of the thread, and you jumping on the reply just drags it further out of context.

Since I do tend to raid spawns, I surely don't usually find us bringing a bard along. As a defender that may be more likely.
As a defending or god forbid raiding bard, I can give everyone within 8 tiles of me free petals, regen, damage reduction, defense chance increase, casting focus, curse duration reduction, hit chance increase, spell damage increase, damage increase, stats increase, rejuvenation type healing, and up to 26 or something extra HP.

I can hit the groups target with 50% on top of whatever they get hit with, nuke their attack chance, spell damage, strength and hit them with damage ranging from fireball to ebolt every 2 seconds without actually having to keep stopping to cast.

Good for you, again, nothing to do with the topic.

But to address your "point" anyway: you can't do any of that stuff because having seen someone running a Bard I sent one of my Stealthers around to Dismount or AI you ending all spell songs.

Actually I was gonna continue but then I realized that most of the arguments are obviously coming from people who either don't enjoy playing bards or don't get what's fun about playing a bard.

So I'll bounce outa this thread and start a new one that -bards- will probably appreciate.

But then you realised that everything you said about PvP is entirely irrelavent because no one is running a 360 point Bard in PvP so has no need to change mastery on the fly which is the topic of the thread. And that repeatedly bleating on about PvP situations where they have no relavence just equates to trolling the thread.

 

[WarUltima]

As much as this thread worth any of my time all I can say is, popps not only said barding is ineffective he said everything other then the bonus sdi do NOT work. When you feel like you should "address" my post with zero number proof, it makes you nothing but popps at best.

I am a doer not a whiner or "addresser of the lies" so I again did the test, because this is for you and your best friend popps I guess it doesnt make sense explaining how to play a bard right, thus I am not going to post my finding but to address you and popps saying Barding songs does not work with pets and summons.

They do. And thats my main point. I dont give a **** if it only give you 1 extra damage, I am simply correcting you and poppies saying spells song inspire do not work on the followers. You can feel free and whine about how hard it is to do a barding quests or how ineffective they are, doesnt change the fact you and popps gave out definite answer saying spellsongs not working at all, when I can even help the regeneration of my tinker golems.

And to use items to replace any of those bard skills (other than you impossible to replace ones that you have zero clue about) will be hmm lets see...

Perseverance:
DCI 16 (over 110 worth of intensity) so 110x[insert party members here]...

16% damage reduction will work over your laughable swampy... and works for pvp and works for pets and last time I checked little guy, super dragons do not ride a swampy, and according to my test the 16% damage reduction works in PvP (AI will only do 30dmg)... so I guess you made **** up for this one again... getting desperate?

And 4 casting focus bonus... which is the "only" possible way to go over the item mod casting focus cap and multiple people can get it and sorry this doesnt mean **** for pets so if you wanna whine and QQ about this one please go ahead. Before you want to QQ and say there's an item that gives you 2 but this 4 will again work over it. If you cant find an item that gives 4 casting focus to all your party members, you are again... making **** up. (No not 2... 4 and will work ON TOP of the spell focusing fish) I am sorry.

While everyone out there want a "IWIN" bottom to their very own, I am sorry to say, improper implementation or spellsongs can easily overpower the group in PvP that "knows how to use a bard" and "has a bard that knows wtf hes doing". So I do bards sometimes at a spawn... so I guess I have to ask you to plz get real? just because you have no clue how to achieve maximum proficiency in PvP for your group... and actually we get bards quite a lot when killing champs... just to let you know... and he's Provocation Mastery + Discordance mainly for invigorate, and it makes the 15x15 allies around you pretty godly.

But anyways OK OK Spellsongs do NOT work with pets at ALL... hope you and popps will feel better now.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

As much as this thread worth any of my time all I can say is, popps not only said barding is ineffective he said everything other then the bonus sdi do NOT work. When you feel like you should "address" my post with zero number proof, it makes you nothing but popps at best.

I am a doer not a whiner or "addresser of the lies" so I again did the test, because this is for you and your best friend popps I guess it doesnt make sense explaining how to play a bard right, thus I am not going to post my finding but to address you and popps saying Barding songs does not work with pets and summons.

I haven't said ANYWHERE that they don't work on pets and summons. I asked Logrus to check it was working, he said it is, and I replied "ok".

They do. And thats my main point. I dont give a **** if it only give you 1 extra damage, I am simply correcting you and poppies saying spells song inspire do not work on the followers.

I haven't said anywhere that they don't, so you haven't corrected anything.

You can feel free and whine about how hard it is to do a barding quests or how ineffective they are, doesnt change the fact you and popps gave out definite answer saying spellsongs not working at all, when I can even help the regeneration of my tinker golems.

I haven't said they don't work at all.

And to use items to replace any of those bard skills (other than you impossible to replace ones that you have zero clue about) will be hmm lets see...

The part I was referring to was the regens. Which are easily bested on suit mods.

16% damage reduction will work over your laughable swampy... and works for pvp and works for pets and last time I checked little guy, super dragons do not ride a swampy, and according to my test the 16% damage reduction works in PvP (AI will only do 30dmg)... so I guess you made **** up for this one again... getting desperate?

And 4 casting focus bonus... which is the "only" possible way to go over the item mod casting focus cap and multiple people can get it and sorry this doesnt mean **** for pets so if you wanna whine and QQ about this one please go ahead. Before you want to QQ and say there's an item that gives you 2 but this 4 will again work over it. If you cant find an item that gives 4 casting focus to all your party members, you are again... making **** up. (No not 2... 4 and will work ON TOP of the spell focusing fish) I am sorry.

What are you so angry about?

Popps didn't deny Logrus' results he just asked if they applied to melee as in the thread I only questioned SDI.

While everyone out there want a "IWIN" bottom to their very own, I am sorry to say, improper implementation or spellsongs can easily overpower the group in PvP that "knows how to use a bard" and "has a bard that knows wtf hes doing". So I do bards sometimes at a spawn... so I guess I have to ask you to plz get real? just because you have no clue how to achieve maximum proficiency in PvP for your group... and actually we get bards quite a lot when killing champs... just to let you know... and he's Provocation Mastery + Discordance mainly for invigorate, and it makes the 15x15 allies around you pretty godly.

How is the ability to switch masterys without leaving the area a win button?

If you apparently use a Prov Discord Bard in PvP then why are you against the idea of them being able to Invigorate the party one minute and Despair/Tribulation the champ the next, the mana contraints already limit having all 4 going at once.

But anyways OK OK Spellsongs do NOT work with pets at ALL... hope you and popps will feel better now.

Haven't said that anywhere.

 

[popps]

As much as this thread worth any of my time all I can say is, popps not only said barding is ineffective he said everything other then the bonus sdi do NOT work. When you feel like you should "address" my post with zero number proof, it makes you nothing but popps at best.

Actually, for sake of clarity, I did not say or, at least, I did not mean to say that it did not work. Rather, that due to my personal experience I felt that it was not working.

And for a reason.

I was expecting a +40% boost which, to my understanding, meant a x1.4 boost to damage increase which, would it have been such, would have cut the fighting time by about half.

Since it did not, I perceived that as the Bard mastery not working.

Then it was explained to me that the +40% is infact only a +8% which makes the difference so miniscule that it is hardly noticeable in combat.

Which brought me to the conclusion that, as they are, the Bard Masteries, to my opinion, are not much usefull at all to a Bard/Tamer or, at least, not worth the 240 skill points plus all of the investment in MR armour which they would need. I think it is wiser to spend the skill points and the gold elsewhere rather than to get a mere 8% (if at all) damage boost.

While everyone out there want a "IWIN" bottom to their very own, I am sorry to say, improper implementation or spellsongs can easily overpower the group in PvP that "knows how to use a bard" and "has a bard that knows wtf hes doing".

That is why I think, rather than have the Bard Masteries songs effect players and pets/summon all the same, their bonuses should play out differently whether they are going to benefit players' characters or pets/summons.

But anyways OK OK Spellsongs do NOT work with pets at ALL... hope you and popps will feel better now.

As I hope I clarified, it is not that they do not work at all but that they do not bring enough benefit, if we are talking about pets and summoned creatures, to make it worth it the investmene of skill points and gold in a heavily loaded MR suit.