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Balanced Property on Bows

C

chuckoatl

Guest
I have been playing UO since the begining. I would hate to say this, but I feel the PvP aspect of the game hasnt been this balanced in a LONG time. People say mystics are over powered but I havent really had an issue with them. I have played on and fought them. I play both Dexxers and Mages, dont play an archer much but thats just personal preferance. From what I can see everything is pretty even IMO.
 

Saunders

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
When UBWS was introduced, it also appeared on bows. For good reasons, archery was removed from the UBWS group, and it was promised that another property would be developed for bows. Hence balanced weapon.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@Chuckoatl
I stumbled upon a post of yours saying you are not too experienced in PVP, then read your statement that you believe everything is quite even at the moment, in fact that PVP hasn't been this balanced for long.. Also you state here that you do not actually play an archer. Finally the fact that you are in Factions and enjoy that form of PVP the most translates in my mind into "I always have a team with me.", whatever that by itself implies! :) Don't get me wrong, I too have concluded I prefer Factions PVP so there's no down-play or foul criticism in what I say. :grouphug:

However, for the sake of all my PVP experiences as a whole, I feel I have to reply that you are only partly right. There indeed have been worse moments regarding balance in PVP and although admittedly in certain areas it has improved(with each improvement often causing much disruption however), it still isn't "even" and with cheating still being a major issue no one can really tell either way.. For example there are templates that seem to be superior to all others only because they are more "compatible" with certain cheats or game mechanics abusing methods.
Personally I stand by what I said above- Cheating or not it probably has improved, but there's more than just "room for improvement".. rolleyes:

@Saunders
What you mention is a perfectly reasonable explanation, although it justifies absolutely nothing concerning the poor choice of the item property that was added("Balanced" that is) and the impact it has on the game's combat balance.

*EDIT* Reading my own reply reminded me; Archery already has an extra property to compensate for UBWS's removal.. "Velocity". This is one more point towards showing "Balanced" is not only too powerfull but also redundant. I'll also mention that archery is the only means to deal an instant solid total of 68-70 damage on 70 physical resistance, on the first shot, without a chance to interrupt the archer(as opposed to a nuker; A caster specialized in high burst damage such as Mystic/Mages) and from safe distance or even coming out of hiding and with a low mana investment.

That's with a Yumi with velocity, spell effect, on a template with damage increase, using Double Shot or whatever ability gives you the "You have been hit by a barrage of arrows!" quote. And yes, the Yumi is slow but there's always tactical weapon swapping.

Archery is also the single best ranged and most likely stealthy method to dismount someone, which is quite a destructive tactic, not to mention archery offers the ability to attack on the move un-like casters.

I'm mentioning all this to show that archery is a very powerfull offensive skill and adding more defensive potential(such as drinking potions) probably breaks whatever balance exists.
Parrying alone or with Bushido are tougher targets for archers but the latter forget all the skill-point investment into Bushido and Parrying of other players just to specialize in defense(and in the case of melee templates using shields, potions are not available). And casters with parrying are even much more specialized, combining very good healing capabilities, ranged attacks and defense along with potions and for that they often cannot compete against other casters.

But all these suspiciously easily elude those who argue archery is too weak against parrying or that removing "Balanced" would not be fair.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Why does this debate keep popping up....

There is a counter to most everything in game...

Archers can not use other weapons, archers can NOT disarm, poison (save the infection strike but that does not allow for the use of poisoning to make it strong)... They can not use 1/2 or more of the bushido moves or ninjitsu moves... They can not carry and use a shield...


You scream about how lame balance is... but no one screams of the lame gimpness of para ganking, xboxing, sword fighters who have it where they can parablow you with every hit... keeping you from movement... Or a dozen other gimp tactics I've seen... using JOAT to add spellweaving used by every human in PvP so they can benefit from insane healing with a lvl 6 circle gained at WBB...

To each and every template there is a strength and there is a weakness...

An archer can not harm you if you disarm them... Disarm is your friend..... gimp as that is... but regardless of the bow's properties it can do nothing to you from the archers pack.

So quit crying and learn to use your own strengths against their weakness's...

Yes he'll rearm soon but by then you "should" have bought yourself enough time to either make him think twice about attacking you or to heal yourself...
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Malagaste this thread simply doesn't concern all the things you rightfully mention as being gimped(and I assure you people do rage about those issues for good reason, time and again). It's almost solely about the "Balanced" property. That does not mean the OP or anyone else here discussing this property, are clueless as to what you say, or that they do not acknowledge the importance of other matters in the game.

Now the reason is keeps popping up is simply because there still isn't any explanation or, if one agrees with the OP(like I do) no reason for "Balanced". Not to mention, all you have to do is simply opt to disregard viewing the thread if the matter tires you. rolleyes:

From your reply I only paid attention to a single bit which does concern the original matter.. Your answer to "Balanced" is simply "Disarm"?.. Yet you have negative thoughts concerning gimped templates? :confused:

And to be honest with you, for all the "down-sides" you seem to note regarding Archery people mostly use that, and one does not need to create an archer themselves to witness their strength. So I think they are not really disadvantages, simply you're down-playing how powerfull Archery is at the moment whether what you mention is true or not.. And that speaks volumes by itself.

Lastly this thread never was a "How To Beat An Archer Who Pwned Me" thread, it's about whether "Balanced" on bows makes sense or not game-wise. It does not, regardless of how one can simply use Disarm and obstruct their archer opponent. Disarm pretty much has the same results on all templates using weapons. Still thanks for sharing your tactics of resorting(and therefore promoting even un-willingly) yet another gimp tactic.

FYI I believe the single most pressing issue right now indeed is XFielding and IMHO if trapped boxes simply had a cool-down, Evil Omen had a chance to be resisted AND Energy Fields always left a clear tile at their collision point the issue would be resolved. The same should also apply to Stone Wall, connecting points should leave a clear tile so the caster would have to ||| instead of X you in. Still possible for two people to block their target therefore the tactic will not be completely negated, but also gives the target a chance. And if that's not possible while it may sound too drastic I would temporarily change Energy Fields and Stone Walls to face in only one direction until a better solution came up.

Admittedly(and it doesn't mean this issue isn't important, in any way) there is only one single form of PVP where this tactic sees excessive(and successfull at any rate) use, in fact where it sees any practical use at all; Out in the open, for instance if you play Europa that would be Felucca, Yew Gate. In more "organized" fights, for instance during Harrower raids Energy Fields still are used but actually XFielding is very, very rare. And I've been on at least 3 Harrowers and a dozen Champion hunts the last couple of weeks. That's why I believe it's THE ultimate gimp PVP tactic. Pure insurance collecting, no fighting involved, easy, no personal skills involved from the players' part. And the best part, it somewhat humiliates the target. What's not to like if you're a player of questionable skill and mentality...? ;P

But it seems EA/M either refuses to reply to all these issues, refuses to acknowledge them or simply refuses to correct them- I for one cannot accept they are too busy dealing with cheating and speed-hacking to do anything about these things.

Anyway, I do not mean to sound rude with this reply but you somewhat had such a one coming with what you posted.

*EDIT* What template para-blows you on every hit, did you say? And what stops archers from using Spellweaving the way you describe? And to be honest Bushido is still a favourite archers' skill, so is Ninjitsu, and their efficiency was reduced for a reason in case you have forgotten what was happening before that.
 
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