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Archer nurf went too far?

PwnySlaystation

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I understand we had to give the Archers a nurf, but i am unsure we intended to make it as almost unplayable as it is.

I have a disarm 211 stam archer. How am I missing so many shots vs unarmed targets that definitely have no defensive skill?

I even miss shots again ratmen/bears/spawn, at 45 HCI 120 Archery this is ridiculous.

Anyone else noticed its way worse than it should be?
 

OREOGL

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Yeah, pretty much you can barely kill anything on the template now.
 

Lord Arm

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I forget how many times archers were nerfed in the last year, all because of disarm archers with moving shot. it screwed my normal pvm archer I use for fel champs. much harder concerning pvp to kill/defend now. they wonder why pvp is dying. now we have some pets that can tank anything and pvpers complaining about certain pets. ive posted that new pets shouldn't be better than greater dragons but this did not happens. keep making same mistakes, over powered, complaints then endless nerfs/revamps. just my opinions
 

Uriah Heep

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I even miss shots again ratmen/bears/spawn, at 45 HCI 120 Archery this is ridiculous.
Missed the news on an archery nerf. wondered why my fully scrolled archer was all of a sudden whif, hit, whif, hit hit whif whif whif whif whif hit

Stupid....
 

WhiteWitch

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Yes when was this, Im assuming it affects throwers also as I seem to miss all the time at 120 skill/45HCI, I was actually thinking of changing to an archer because of it, till I read this
 

Fridgster

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Don't you just hate it when your play style gets nerfed? :stir:
 

Great DC

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Dexxers have had that issue for awhile now, not just archers. They made hit chance work like diablo awhile back, where theres always a 5% chance to miss before it checks wrestling on the target or DCI on the target. Its why even sampires wiff on 1st level spawn when running champs. They should have never lowered AI for archers to 30, now you can do more damage with a regular non special shot which makes no sense. All they had to do is put back the -HCI penalty that was originally on moving shot. Before the latest combat patch which wasn't done right, the reason it was parry mages vs archers was uber power creep due to 55 LMC plus global loot. Had nothing to do with the templates themselves. Without almost unlimited mana you could not even come close to moving shotting people down before you had no mana. You also could not make the parry mage without sacrificing mana for dex to parry. Don't get me wrong though an overhaul to loot was needed but nowhere near the extent it was done. They literally skipped over ten years worth of updates and just maxxed gear out for no reason. It should have been as good as reforging with a slight chance to be better. Its never good to make the game completely item based. Crafters should still be a viable choice to make gear and be involved in the economy.
 

Great DC

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Oh yeah almost forgot, the pet revamp has also caused a side effect where any monster with above GM wrestle also gains parry. Another check in your way before you hit something. LOLOL
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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they wonder why pvp is dying. now we have some pets that can tank anything and pvpers complaining about certain pets. ive posted that new pets shouldn't be better than greater dragons but this did not happens. keep making same mistakes, over powered, complaints then endless nerfs/revamps. just my opinions

Nah.. not just the same mistakes... they are making ALL NEW mistakes now too... check this thread... ya ain't seen Monster pets yet.. but they are coming.. Res killing
 

MalagAste

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Been this way for awhile and it's sick and sad. Couldn't hit the broad side of a Dragon if it was standing 2 feet away and had a gaping wound with no scales on it...

I've said it many times it's like you hit maybe 2 or 3 in 10 shots... And that's sad with 120 Archery, 110 Tactics and GM Anatomy you'd think you could hit at least 5 or 6 in 10... but no it's 2 or 3 in 10... If you are lucky....

This is also why I die so often as a Sampire and totally HATE the template... because you WW, WW, wiff, wiff, wiff, got to hit right now or.... yep dead again..... %(*$ HATE this...

It's like seriously!!!!!! I had 6 things at least on me and I couldn't hit ANY of them 3 times in a ROW??????? That's like missing 18 times... Freaking stupid.
 

Scott

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Any you guys played a thief lately?
Thiefs these days are crazy- can steal anything and not flag... and with chiv being a damage temp now... so nasty ways to fight your opponent...



To the rest of this thread... when they brought the base sdi cap up, hybrid mages came back into play... with suits that can fit 100-120 skill points without too much effort, bushido and Magery are pretty much the norm- outside of tamers with pets that needs 2-3 people to kill it... but that's lots of other threads!

Archery has become a running template... meaning- you can't stand still- or the dump will get ya... always moving! So speed is the name of the game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

afk

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Wondered what was wrong with my archer( almost can't kill anything worth killing) is there a list of things that got nerfed,or were these all stealth nerfs?
 

DJAd

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Wondered what was wrong with my archer( almost can't kill anything worth killing) is there a list of things that got nerfed,or were these all stealth nerfs?
  • Increased Moving Shot’s hit chance penalty.
  • Moving Shot damage is now always physical regardless of other damage modifiers including quivers and Consecrate Weapon.
  • PvP Only: Armor Ignore direct damage cap on ranged weapons has been reduced from 35 to 30.
Publish 96 – Ultima Online
 

Cetric

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There was nothing in any patches that affected archer hit chance besides moving shot. Maybe a bug?
 

afk

Journeyman
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  • Increased Moving Shot’s hit chance penalty.
  • Moving Shot damage is now always physical regardless of other damage modifiers including quivers and Consecrate Weapon.
  • PvP Only: Armor Ignore direct damage cap on ranged weapons has been reduced from 35 to 30.
Publish 96 – Ultima Online
that explains some of the problems, but to be honest i'm missing way to much, however even when i'm not using moving shot my hit rate does not increase. i have 120 archery and 15-45 hci depending on equipment and i can go have 5, 10 up to 20 consecutive whifs on stuff with less than 120 wrestle. whiffed several shots in a row on a lizardman
 

Scott

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There was nothing in any patches that affected archer hit chance besides moving shot. Maybe a bug?
i think what Djad talked about explains what they are talking about...

You are correct - but the beefed up defense templates have made archers much more difficult to play - not impossible, but definitely not a go-to template these days (unless they dont know how to play anything else).

I have noticed a difference in pvm as well... unless lowerD is on the weapon/suit- good luck with hitting the monster...
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Archers are fine, I don't thing the archer temp should be a 1 vs 1. Moving shot is good as well. In fact I would suggest giving the 35 damage back on ai if you shorten the range of moving shot.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
in a group my archer is strong. I can kill pets dismount 2 shot mortal para run down people. As for 211 I don't use it. I use 180. And gave myself 31 more mana. No template should be able to moving shot you down
 

CovenantX

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The missing people while disarmed has been happening for a long time.

I remember reading it somewhere, a few years ago there was a nerf to all weapon-based attacks, by limiting hit chance to an absolute 95% hit 5% miss rule, which Seems to be a separate check than your weapon skill+Hci vs targets skill+Dci.

Back in the day you used to have a 100% chance to hit anything with ~50-70 (scaled more with higher skill) less weapon skill than you, that's simply not possible now.
 

petemage

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I guess this thread has been deleted because it mentioned an exploit ...
Yea, but since the genie is out of the bottle, remaining question is whether Mesanna is going to do something about those overcapped pets. And when so, how. :popcorn:
 

Petra Fyde

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Perhaps it's a good job I don't pvp on my archer, or she wouldn't have killed balrons for fame to get sacrifice yesterday and solo'd a baracoon spawn in lost lands Monday. No one told me before the event that she was so unable to hit anything that she'd be unplayable.
 

Max Blackoak

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I would have preferred to keep AI damage from ranged weapons capped at 35. The nerf to 30 cap was unnecessary. The same goes for moving shot hit chance penalty.

All archery needed was a nerf to the 100% fire/poison damage moving shots after a target was corpse skinned+cursed when they used to stack.
 

petemage

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As usual. You are living in your fanatasy world. There are no overcapped pets. So, delete away. Or, maybe they were already deleted.
You must have missed that now deleted thread mentioned above. Pretty messed up and the longer it goes, the worse it will get.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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You must have missed that now deleted thread mentioned above. Pretty messed up and the longer it goes, the worse it will get.
The issue does not allow over capping of any abilities or stats. Go train a tiger up to 5 slots. You cant use all the points because you will hit the caps. That's why people have asked for a way to use the points they cant spend. So they don't get a pop up.

The caps are working. (which may lead to the devs not doing anything about it.)

Lets keep the forums fact based.
 

cobb

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Items that are created by illegal means get deleted by the devs all the time
 

Merlin

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Folks... I did some minor thread clean up here. Please stay on topic and do not discuss exploits.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Lol anywayes back on topic. archers scale more than any other class with the legendaries. Even at 70 physical I still get hit hard from moving shot very hard. To do that at 1.25 with 150 mana does not seem to excessive to you?

They also require the least amount of skill to play. If other classes had a damage on the run spell I would feel sympathetic, maybe a thrower could use a buff. That's it!
 

TB Cookie [W]

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Stratics Legend
Archer nerf may have gone slightly too far.

But Casters were decimated with the parry nerf.

Close range weapon users (Dexxers - this definition includes weapon mages, as they have Dex to use the weapons) are unstoppable, one mistake by casters in fielding to let them in, and your dead now.
You cannot even begin to kite them anymore, close range fighters have a huge armoury - dismount, deathstrike, lethal poison, splinter, mortal, bleed, AI - and you usually get hit by a truckload of them.

To be fair Sean, enjoyed fighting you guys, but there was a reason I quit PvP in April after that PvP patch wipe-out, our guild mainly comprised of casters, and that's what we like playing.
We gave it a try, I don't think we'll bother again to that degree, see how we go.
 

PwnySlaystation

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I don't think Parry mages [the majority of your guild] have been nurfed too badly. You just won't adapt and change templates to adjust.

All the wepskill mage builds about right now are counterable with disarm. So get some disarm characters in your guild, or utilise your Wrestling skill on the mages you have more.

You messed up the other night, it was a lesson, you need to not get so downhearted every time you lose a fight to people who are evidently better at adapting to the game[which is the same as better at the game]...

or as Mervyn would say - Psalm 34:17 When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears, and rescues them from all their troubles.

Like Mervyn you can either pray that next time you'll improve, or you'll put the effort in and actually do it.
 

TB Cookie [W]

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
I don't think Parry mages [the majority of your guild] have been nurfed too badly. You just won't adapt and change templates to adjust.

All the wepskill mage builds about right now are counterable with disarm. So get some disarm characters in your guild, or utilise your Wrestling skill on the mages you have more.

You messed up the other night, it was a lesson, you need to not get so downhearted every time you lose a fight to people who are evidently better at adapting to the game[which is the same as better at the game]...

or as Mervyn would say - Psalm 34:17 When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears, and rescues them from all their troubles.

Like Mervyn you can either pray that next time you'll improve, or you'll put the effort in and actually do it.

Hey Sean,
It gets to a point, maybe we just don't like the style of play anymore, we've always adapted believe it or not, if we really wanted to be FOTM right now, and just walk all over your current guild playstyle, we do have a response. But can we be bothered to play it, I don't know.
Re Improving, I PvP a lot, I know what I am and am not capable of v the current style. Not very much is the truthful answer. I am being ripped apart by a truckload of dexxers. You moan about our fielding playstyle, we didn't always do it so much? We are pretty much forced to, as the second I'm hit by a close range weapon user, I'm gone. You want a running style, because you have all dexxers, we can't last 3 seconds v that, so we field, boring as it may be, it buys us time. Bit like when Archers were OP, we were forced into Parry Mages - remember, I was a Scribe or Nox mage, depending on mood, currently I am SW, but point being, we are being forced into templates we don't really want to use.
So we have adapted, just in the end, it is completely against your playstyle - I didn't see Aeyko or all those Atlantic dexxers jumping at the bit to adapt to being a Tamer. :)


Onto your topic, maybe Archers have been nerfed too hard, maybe all ranged has.
 
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PwnySlaystation

Lore Master
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Hey Sean,
It gets to a point, maybe we just don't like the style of play anymore, we've always adapted believe it or not, if we really wanted to be FOTM right now, and just walk all over your current guild playstyle, we do have a response. But can we be bothered to play it, I don't know.
Re Improving, I PvP a lot, I know what I am and am not capable of v the current style. Not very much is the truthful answer. I am being ripped apart by a truckload of dexxers. You moan about our fielding playstyle, we didn't always do it so much? We are pretty much forced to, as the second I'm hit by a close range weapon user, I'm gone. You want a running style, because you have all dexxers, we can't last 3 seconds v that, so we field, boring as it may be, it buys us time.


Onto your topic, maybe Archers have been nerfed too hard, maybe all ranged has.
If you had a response you'd be responding with a bit more enthusiasm.

I don't think you PvP a lot. I think you think you PvP a lot. W are casual pvpers, which is fine, we expect you to be on the lower end of the skill scale[as a general overall guild] pvp wise than Vp and PRO because you do a hell of a lot of PvM. Your response is numbers and numbers make a big difference in open play, you pushing a 3 tile wide corridor isn't playing to a teams strengths vs experienced players.

I don't understand how you get "ripped apart by dexers". We have 2x Melee dexers in the group regularly, Hemmingway and H'sai. Neither of which dismount. If you played sensible, you wouldn't get ripped apart so often. Fielding "buying you time" is only good if theres an objective.

You don't see Bon Bon [PRO] or Nightmare[PRO] killing anyone solo ever and pretty much all our mages have either mage weapon or a weapon in hand now, zero parry mages.

You never heard the expression "The best defense is a good offense"? Get some template variety in your team, play in ways you can use to your advantage and don't give up for 2 days every time you lose a fight.
 

TB Cookie [W]

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If you had a response you'd be responding with a bit more enthusiasm. .
Not really, it's a playstyle I hated years ago, moaned about in factions, and would be ironic if I adopted it now. I cannot be more specific, because if we did it, it would give our gameplan away. But sure, I can be not enthusiastic about it, as I'm not in a hurry to adopt the latest FOTM templates, or even in this case, create them - which we are perfectly capable of doing which you don't appreciate.

Thing about you "elite" pvpers, is you don't give anyone else credit, we've been successful with our pvp teams and various styles, for almost 20 years, more than you elite guys, we've seen it all before, we chose not to play certain things.

I don't think you PvP a lot. I think you think you PvP a lot. W are casual pvpers, which is fine, we expect you to be on the lower end of the skill scale[as a general overall guild] pvp wise than Vp and PRO because you do a hell of a lot of PvM. Your response is numbers and numbers make a big difference in open play, you pushing a 3 tile wide corridor isn't playing to a teams strengths vs experienced players. .
When I play, I PvP a lot, it's basically what I play for, I PvP, or find PvP - I'm very talented at that, I don't just pvp against you, and I don't pvp in Yew, or on Atlantic.
I usually prefer objectives, and I pvp against all the guilds out there, not just you.
Sure I'm quiet right now, and sure, as a guild we don't pvp non-stop, we play the entire game.
Right now, we hardly PvP, we don't consider the current PvP style fun.
You can keep banging on about how all we need to do is adapt, and use weapons, but it's not our style.
I don't appreciate all the dismount, lethal poison, splinter, deathstrike, stealth, etc etc, there is no skill to any of that.
VP have basically become that guild that is not worth pvping against, because you are no fun.
If you wanted PvP, you should split your guild in half, then you'd be a match for each other, and the same size as us.

I don't understand how you get "ripped apart by dexers". We have 2x Melee dexers in the group regularly, Hemmingway and H'sai. Neither of which dismount. If you played sensible, you wouldn't get ripped apart so often. Fielding "buying you time" is only good if theres an objective.
You don't see Bon Bon [PRO] or Nightmare[PRO] killing anyone solo ever and pretty much all our mages have either mage weapon or a weapon in hand now, zero parry mages.
You never heard the expression "The best defense is a good offense"? Get some template variety in your team, play in ways you can use to your advantage and don't give up for 2 days every time you lose a fight.
Ask anyone, you are that Dexxer guild.
Talia, Ed Marlo, Hsai, Hemmingway, Europa Sux, Braska, gHoSt, Schmoopy!, Zorg,

And back to the mages using weapons - not happening for me - for me, that's the main thing that the last pvp patch screwed up, it killed off pure casters.
I would rather quit than use a weapon on a mage.
 
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Epyco

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Not mentioning me in your dexxer list hurts.

Frankly tho so still like my archer as my main dexxer. They were OP before the nerf yet ai cap 30+decreased moving shot would have been enough. The low end damage% is a big Deal.

And btw...Archers do require skill to play. 99% of you who play it like a 3 macro noobchar Just dont know that.
 
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TB Cookie [W]

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Not mentioning me in your dexxer list hurts.
.
I am not 100% sure who you are/what templates!
I didn't want to get my list wrong, you restarted, as I quit, so haven't actually seen you much.
I think I've got you in there now, added a few more. :)
 

PwnySlaystation

Lore Master
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Ask anyone, you are that Dexxer guild.
Talia, Ed Marlo, Hsai, Hemmingway, Europa Sux, I'll leave this space open to list more as I think of them.
Talia : 200 Ping from the USA,
Ed Marlo: Sampire PvMer who will fight on that char if he is attacked or needs to, not a fully fledged pvp char
H'Sai : He's a 1 man army in the right circumstances, but you have no idea how to tackle it, so you let it happen.
Hemmingway : Can't dismount someone, no deathstrike and no ninjitsu to get away if he gets dismounted = You guys again, not doing what you could do because "you're mightier than thou" AKA you can't/too lazy[given that you've had stealth dismounters before]
Europa Suxx : 1x Stealth thrower, she tries her best and sends me nudes, but she's not at the level where she entirely changes the game for us.

Thats even IF all these people are on at the same time as a mage team, which is rare tbh.

You've got dexers too, Black Angel is frustrating to fight/parry macer perma bleed. Frankie has a dexer, Robert is a reasonable archer but needs to learn to dismount.


I don't really remember W being a dominant force ever. Not skill wise... you've certainly played the numbers game well on occasion but pound for pound your guild doesn't and hasn't ever had the quality to compete with top flight Europa Guilds.

Yes, you have good fights, but I think you're upselling yourselves on the forum. You wouldn't enter into a 3v3 or a 5v5 and actually expect to win vs 3 or 5 of us would you?
 

TB Cookie [W]

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I don't really remember W being a dominant force ever. Not skill wise... you've certainly played the numbers game well on occasion but pound for pound your guild doesn't and hasn't ever had the quality to compete with top flight Europa Guilds.

Yes, you have good fights, but I think you're upselling yourselves on the forum. You wouldn't enter into a 3v3 or a 5v5 and actually expect to win vs 3 or 5 of us would you?
Ok, you've always been good, accepted - that's it!

VP have always been the dexxer joke guild, who we laugh at due to your inability to pvp.
Historically, we have always destroyed your guild, currently you own us with volume of dexxers, EC favouring dexxers, and a dexxer biased patch, and the fact you now have 3 top end pvpers - yourself, Hsai, and Epyc, whereas we have zero.

You are currently beating us, you are now trying to rewrite 20 years of history based on a comeback since April 2017 when I quit, and you got numbers, and good players.
Yes we've had numbers and used them historically, who hasn't?
No-one is moaning about numbers, its a good thing.
All I've said to you, is if you want more PvP, as a genuine suggestion, you could split your guild in half, because we're really not up for fighting a dexxer army in the current pvp style.

I would expect us to beat you, in equal circumstances, we are currently not playing anything like equal circumstances.

Edits;
Regarding dominance, there is a cycle, these things always go in circles anyway, we'll have a good few months, then someone else, then someone else, then us, etc. Over the course of time, we have always been there, or thereabouts, and are always doing our thing, having fun.

Regarding Holier than thou attitude, it's just logic when you guys moan about say tamers or chiv spammers, and its holier than though attitude when I say being Dismounted and ganked by 5 people is not a fun playstyle. It's not about attitude, it's about what feels fun or not. Stop using such negative descriptions towards me, it makes you look like such an arrogant elitist pvper like some others...
 
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805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Not sure why you are laughing, does anyone actually still punch keys the hard way? Seems most script and even those who don't script still use repeaters(ie PunchKey etc) on their macros. Hardly requires skill imo, and I do love how those who preach that they are pure are often the worst offenders.

As for thieves, every time I was tempted to play my thief I remembered that daring to use the disguise kit would result in losing all macros and other various character issues... pass. Think UO will ever fix the disguise kit issues? wait.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... fix disguise kits... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
The perso
Not mentioning me in your dexxer list hurts.

Frankly tho so still like my archer as my main dexxer. They were OP before the nerf yet ai cap 30+decreased moving shot would have been enough. The low end damage% is a big Deal.

And btw...Archers do require skill to play. 99% of you who play it like a 3 macro noobchar Just dont know that.
I play both archer and mage and by far the archer is way way eaiser maybe cause I ping triple digits but for the most part I run a suit no more than 500 mil and have trouble killing other archers or mages in the group fighting that is where I find it's the easiest too play dismount mortal para moving shot. My yumi kills people I'm two to three shots. If I get dis ousted I can ninja away mirror image or smoke bomb. I can heal while running and never need to be close to the fight. Most archers use scripts to pvp to make it even eaiser the only thing you need to do is not die.
 

Epyco

Sage
Stratics Veteran
The perso

I play both archer and mage and by far the archer is way way eaiser maybe cause I ping triple digits but for the most part I run a suit no more than 500 mil and have trouble killing other archers or mages in the group fighting that is where I find it's the easiest too play dismount mortal para moving shot. My yumi kills people I'm two to three shots. If I get dis ousted I can ninja away mirror image or smoke bomb. I can heal while running and never need to be close to the fight. Most archers use scripts to pvp to make it even eaiser the only thing you need to do is not die.
I do agree that archer is easier and also more relaxed to play than a mage, but saying an archer takes zero skill is wrong. It s the little things like para blowing enemy healers, bandi healing your mates, knowing when to use a magical shortbow to mass disturb, knowing when you can actually go for a dismount (on a non stealther archer). A well played archer can be a game changer for a whole team. You do make it sound easy tho. Ill also make playing a mage sound easy:
Just curse explo flamestrike and use your hybrid skill. Dont die, if you get dismounted just teleport macro or teleport items away. Oh and dont die.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I'm not saying all arches are skilles I'm saying the template is.

The archer template also scales better than anything else with gear. You are a offfensive powerhouse. a new pvper can buy a expensive archer suit be given a script speedhack and now has more firepower than any other template. They just need to run when in a bad situation and the 3rd party's and suit will take care of everything else.

Toggle moving shot then run down anyone low. So I'm glad they took that out of the picture. Could you imagine is mages could hit you for just 20 damages on the run and did not need to stop to cast?

Throwers on the other hand took it in the shorts. Their moving shot does less damage and needs shorter range, their glaive got nerfed and only have two bows to fall back on. I feel that template needs love
 

Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Not mentioning me in your dexxer list hurts.

Frankly tho so still like my archer as my main dexxer. They were OP before the nerf yet ai cap 30+decreased moving shot would have been enough. The low end damage% is a big Deal.

And btw...Archers do require skill to play. 99% of you who play it like a 3 macro noobchar Just dont know that.
Maybe you too good to be mentioned..... See it like that!!!:p
 

grav1t0n

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I understand we had to give the Archers a nurf, but i am unsure we intended to make it as almost unplayable as it is.

I have a disarm 211 stam archer. How am I missing so many shots vs unarmed targets that definitely have no defensive skill?

I even miss shots again ratmen/bears/spawn, at 45 HCI 120 Archery this is ridiculous.

Anyone else noticed its way worse than it should be?
i quit from uo since pub94 with bunch of si10 ssi10 items coz of this.
 
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