[Archery] Archer/Macer + GM Cook/120 Fisher (Soulstones) ?

[Loren]

Having trouble coming up with something that works.

I thought Archer/Macer or Archer/Necro were both cool. So was Stealth Archer but this will be a PvM build.
I have some skills stoned off to use up, a mythic token to pop. 1 char has already eaten 120 Arch and 120 Mace scrolls.

Option 1 : Leave Archer, Fish, Cook on full time. Level Archery and Fishing until I figure out what to do.

Option 2 : Build something to 120 Archery (110 + HH ?) / 120 Mace Fighting. Built with numbers combining real skill and jewels to where I can swap out GM Cooking and (eventually) 120 Fishing without getting more than 2 soulstones involved. Space is already cramped. This sounds whacked even to me, so here is a specific example of what I am trying to get:

100 Healing (or Anat or Tactics etc) (real) <==> 100 Cooking (real)
120 Mace Fighting (real) <==> 120 Fishing (real)

I am also trying to avoid taking Chiv to 120. What about an Archery/Mace Fighting Sampire variant?
I found one thread and thought hey I can do that, but the only natural 120 was Chiv. I do not have to use HH, it is just available. I have 105 necro (real), but I see a lot of sampy templates that stick w 99. Also looking for something effective, slow killing is ok as long as it gets it done.

Lastly, if my build on Loren makes option 2 redundant, then option 1 it is Loren is
120 swords
105 (115) Tactics - Soldier's Medal
100 Anatomy
90 (120) Chivalry - Jewels
105 (120) Bushido - Jewels
100 (109) Parry - Jewels
100 Healing

So if I can come up with something that will excel, where my Swordsman/Bushy/Pally will not, excellent. Otherwise I guess its option 1, since Stealth/Archer PvP is not my thing. I do not see the point of Stealth/Archery/XX for PvM.

When I play with the numbers I keep running into needing 2 same group skills on jewels, or not enough points available, etc. I guess it could be a long term project with 120 Chiv, my hats off to everyone that made Chiv 120. I actually had that once. Worse than leveling Magery 120 imho.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Having trouble coming up with something that works.

I thought Archer/Macer or Archer/Necro were both cool. So was Stealth Archer but this will be a PvM build.
I have some skills stoned off to use up, a mythic token to pop. 1 char has already eaten 120 Arch and 120 Mace scrolls.

Option 1 : Leave Archer, Fish, Cook on full time. Level Archery and Fishing until I figure out what to do.

Option 2 : Build something to 120 Archery (110 + HH ?) / 120 Mace Fighting. Built with numbers combining real skill and jewels to where I can swap out GM Cooking and (eventually) 120 Fishing without getting more than 2 soulstones involved. Space is already cramped. This sounds whacked even to me, so here is a specific example of what I am trying to get:

100 Healing (or Anat or Tactics etc) (real) <==> 100 Cooking (real)
120 Mace Fighting (real) <==> 120 Fishing (real)

I am also trying to avoid taking Chiv to 120. What about an Archery/Mace Fighting Sampire variant?
I found one thread and thought hey I can do that, but the only natural 120 was Chiv. I do not have to use HH, it is just available. I have 105 necro (real), but I see a lot of sampy templates that stick w 99. Also looking for something effective, slow killing is ok as long as it gets it done.

Lastly, if my build on Loren makes option 2 redundant, then option 1 it is Loren is
120 swords
105 (115) Tactics - Soldier's Medal
100 Anatomy
90 (120) Chivalry - Jewels
105 (120) Bushido - Jewels
100 (109) Parry - Jewels
100 Healing

So if I can come up with something that will excel, where my Swordsman/Bushy/Pally will not, excellent. Otherwise I guess its option 1, since Stealth/Archer PvP is not my thing. I do not see the point of Stealth/Archery/XX for PvM.

When I play with the numbers I keep running into needing 2 same group skills on jewels, or not enough points available, etc. I guess it could be a long term project with 120 Chiv, my hats off to everyone that made Chiv 120. I actually had that once. Worse than leveling Magery 120 imho.

To begin with, Fishing/Cooking, how much/how often do you actually use them? For me skills like Cooking (if I have it at all) sit on a Soulstone Fragment until needed, which is hardly ever (I usually have skills like that in case some event benefits highly from it and you can't hire anyone as they're all busy cashing in too), as I'd rather save the charge and give someone a mil to do whatever I want. Fishing I've not used, but think you probably need it for things like calling up Scalis, and whatever else, so if you're the person that does that on your shard/in your group then that needs to be taken into account with the full setup.

Having Archery and Macing is more of a PvP template, for Disarm/Running Shot. A few people PvM with it (I think Corwin has something like that) but any two weapon skill template is going to be essentially a skill short on being at it's peak for not much reason. That said I've had a Swords/Thrower for rapid spawning, Whirlwind/AI spam that works very well, but in general not a huge fan of it.

I would always recommend Throwing over Archery. Yeah you have to be a gargoyle, lose a mount, and need different armor... but you're one handed so can use pots without a property on the weapon, you're as strong as an Archer Glaive's are basically the same as Composite's in terms of damage/speed, don't need to carry ammo which affects weight and the amount you might need for long battles, and as a Gargoyle 5 HCI racial bonus, plus 2 MR (by comparison a Human character gets either 1 or 3 MR depending on if they're armor is medable)... oh, plus the powerscroll is (or was, haven't checked lately) a helluva lot cheaper, and training is cheaper because it uses no ammo.

Necro at 105 gives 100% success with Strangle, at 100 it gives 100% at Wither, you only need 99 for Vamp Form.


I'm still highly skeptical of the need to have Chivalry at 120. I'd go 90 at best, 70 on most, less if just using it for Sacred Journey. (I haven't the patience for using recall scrolls.) It's not any harder than any other caster skill (apart from Magery which is easier due to -29 Mage Weapons of course), just have to set the character up to do it fast, full Med/Focus/LMC/MR/LRC/Lich Form/Shadow Wisp and 4/6 casting.

It seems that if you already have a Swords dexxer that uses bandages, there's not much point making another one with Macing, so I'm guessing you're just missing a ranged dexxer. I would therefore suggest the Necro/Thrower (or substitute it for Archery if that's your thing)... I've had two variants of this (I think) one with Healing one without, both solod Slasher when that was fairly new. The current template I'm running which I haven't modified for a few years is:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Carries some Necro reagents and uses Vamp Form and Wraith Form and most of the other Necro benefits. Can add Curse Weapon while in either form. Use Familiars etc. The character is positive Karma as I don't often need to use Necro spells (often, relative to Karma gaining kills I mean) In Wraith Form and with the SS you leech a ton of Mana so can AI non stop on most high end monsters, and most low end monsters die in 2-5 hits anyway. Bushido for Perfection obviously. With Curse Weapon and chain AI for 273 (at best) you're leeching back a minimum of 136 HP a hit (more in Vamp Form) so it's pretty hard to die.

 

[Loren]

To begin with, Fishing/Cooking, how much/how often do you actually use them? For me skills like Cooking (if I have it at all) sit on a Soulstone Fragment until needed, which is hardly ever, as I'd rather save the charge and give someone a mil to do whatever I want. Fishing I've not used, but think you probably need it for things like calling up Scalis, and whatever else, so if you're the person that does that on your shard/in your group then that needs to be taken into account with the full setup.

Having Archery and Macing is more of a PvP template, for Disarm/Running Shot. A few people PvM with it (I think Corwin has something like that) but any two weapon skill template is going to be essentially a skill short on being at it's peak for not much reason. That said I've had a Swords/Thrower for rapid spawning, Whirlwind/AI spam that works very well, but in general not a huge fan of it.

I would always recommend Throwing over Archery. Yeah you have to be a gargoyle, lose a mount, and need different armor... but you're one handed so can use pots without a property on the weapon, you're as strong as an Archer Glaive's are basically the same as Composite's in terms of damage/speed, don't need to carry ammo which affects weight and the amount you might need for long battles, and as a Gargoyle 5 HCI racial bonus, plus 2 MR (by comparison a Human character gets either 1 or 3 MR depending on if they're armor is medable)... oh, plus the powerscroll is (or was, haven't checked lately) a helluva lot cheaper, and training is cheaper because it uses no ammo.

Necro at 105 gives 100% success with Strangle, at 100 it gives 100% at Wither, you only need 99 for Vamp Form.


I'm still highly skeptical of the need to have Chivalry at 120. I'd go 90 at best, 70 on most, less if just using it for Sacred Journey. (I haven't the patience for using recall scrolls.) It's not any harder than any other caster skill (apart from Magery which is easier due to -29 Mage Weapons of course), just have to set the character up to do it fast, full Med/Focus/LMC/MR/LRC/Lich Form/Shadow Wisp and 4/6 casting.

It seems that if you already have a Swords dexxer that uses bandages, there's not much point making another one with Macing, so I'm guessing you're just missing a ranged dexxer. I would therefore suggest the Necro/Thrower (or substitute it for Archery if that's your thing)... I've had two variants of this (I think) one with Healing one without, both solod Slasher when that was fairly new. The current template I'm running which I haven't modified for a few years is:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Carries some Necro reagents and uses Vamp Form and Wraith Form and most of the other Necro benefits. Can add Curse Weapon while in either form. Use Familiars etc. The character is positive Karma as I don't often need to use Necro spells (often, relative to Karma gaining kills I mean) In Wraith Form and with the SS you leech a ton of Mana so can AI non stop on most high end monsters, and most low end monsters die in 2-5 hits anyway. Bushido for Perfection obviously. With Curse Weapon and chain AI for 273 you're leeching back a minimum of 136 HP a hit (more in Vamp Form) so it's pretty hard to die.

I think I will check out this thrower, get out of my comfort zone a bit.

To begin with, Fishing/Cooking, how much/how often do you actually use them? For me skills like Cooking (if I have it at all) sit on a Soulstone Fragment until needed, which is hardly ever (I usually have skills like that in case some event benefits highly from it and you can't hire anyone as they're all busy cashing in too), as I'd rather save the charge and give someone a mil to do whatever I want. Fishing I've not used, but think you probably need it for things like calling up Scalis, and whatever else, so if you're the person that does that on your shard/in your group then that needs to be taken into account with the full setup.

Having Archery and Macing is more of a PvP template, for Disarm/Running Shot. A few people PvM with it (I think Corwin has something like that) but any two weapon skill template is going to be essentially a skill short on being at it's peak for not much reason. That said I've had a Swords/Thrower for rapid spawning, Whirlwind/AI spam that works very well, but in general not a huge fan of it.

I would always recommend Throwing over Archery. Yeah you have to be a gargoyle, lose a mount, and need different armor... but you're one handed so can use pots without a property on the weapon, you're as strong as an Archer Glaive's are basically the same as Composite's in terms of damage/speed, don't need to carry ammo which affects weight and the amount you might need for long battles, and as a Gargoyle 5 HCI racial bonus, plus 2 MR (by comparison a Human character gets either 1 or 3 MR depending on if they're armor is medable)... oh, plus the powerscroll is (or was, haven't checked lately) a helluva lot cheaper, and training is cheaper because it uses no ammo.

Necro at 105 gives 100% success with Strangle, at 100 it gives 100% at Wither, you only need 99 for Vamp Form.


I'm still highly skeptical of the need to have Chivalry at 120. I'd go 90 at best, 70 on most, less if just using it for Sacred Journey. (I haven't the patience for using recall scrolls.) It's not any harder than any other caster skill (apart from Magery which is easier due to -29 Mage Weapons of course), just have to set the character up to do it fast, full Med/Focus/LMC/MR/LRC/Lich Form/Shadow Wisp and 4/6 casting.

It seems that if you already have a Swords dexxer that uses bandages, there's not much point making another one with Macing, so I'm guessing you're just missing a ranged dexxer. I would therefore suggest the Necro/Thrower (or substitute it for Archery if that's your thing)... I've had two variants of this (I think) one with Healing one without, both solod Slasher when that was fairly new. The current template I'm running which I haven't modified for a few years is:

120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
100 Necro
70 SS
70 Chiv

Carries some Necro reagents and uses Vamp Form and Wraith Form and most of the other Necro benefits. Can add Curse Weapon while in either form. Use Familiars etc. The character is positive Karma as I don't often need to use Necro spells (often, relative to Karma gaining kills I mean) In Wraith Form and with the SS you leech a ton of Mana so can AI non stop on most high end monsters, and most low end monsters die in 2-5 hits anyway. Bushido for Perfection obviously. With Curse Weapon and chain AI for 273 (at best) you're leeching back a minimum of 136 HP a hit (more in Vamp Form) so it's pretty hard to die.

I think I will give this a shot. I am thinking bumping Necro to 105 and Magery Down to 65.

Why I prefer Magery : Invis scrolls for when ****e hits the fan, and the ability to use Mark scrolls (always on the lookout for .... interesting opportunities). I know about the garlic deal, but if Vamp Form is usable on a boss, I won't be needing any of the heals/cures. Heal pots are still ok. I also want to have 1 'evil mean guy' with very low Karma. So Chiv wouldn't do much effectively except Recall. I keep tons of recall scrolls around to charge runebooks with.

What is your rationale for Chiv over Magery ? I may decide to use Chiv, or better yet, keep 65 on a soulstone for swapping in vs Magery if I find a need. I can see that is a 720 pt template, do you see any benefit from taking SS to 100 or Magery/Chiv to 95 via jewelry? At 95 (92 really) Magery I can 100% Cast 6th circle and below for instance. Last question (I think I want to PLAY for a while today):Is it difficult/expensive to fit 100 LRC in a garg thrower suit?

I am looking at:
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
120 Bushido
105 Necromancy
100 Spirit Speak
65 Magery

+15 to 2 skills, or +30 to Bushido, and it is still a 720 real point plan. Alternatively I could go 35 Magery go all real skill. And swap jewels when I need 65 Magery. I have thought some fights through, and I can not see where I would be casting while throwing. If I find the need to do so, that is easily fixed.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Why I prefer Magery : Invis scrolls for when ****e hits the fan, and the ability to use Mark scrolls (always on the lookout for .... interesting opportunities).
What is your rationale for Chiv over Magery ?
Is it difficult/expensive to fit 100 LRC in a garg thrower suit?

Chivalry over Magery for Enemy Of One (things that don't have slayers, Perfection + EoO), Remove Curse, Sacred Journey, Dispel Evil and to a lesser extent Consecrate/Divine.

You can carry Invis potions (I carry 5 but rarely use them because the template just kills everything quickly) and Teleport scrolls on any character so that just leaves Mark really, the template is a high end dexxer so dedicating points to such a non combative purpose is just something I wouldn't do. I have Mages to Mark with, and it doesn't need doing often.

I wouldn't imagine so, I've had 100 LRC on a Mystic/Macer that also managed to fit in enough Dex for bandages, max resists/DI/LMC/HCI/DCI/EP, I probably wouldn't bother with the LRC though.