Any chance at all that UO will be dragged back into the 21st century?

[Asheron]

I haven't played in years, my prime was between 1999 and 2010 and every now and then I come back to it, although been away for a good few years.

No other RPG has come close to this in terms of depth and community, but for me what made me leave was when Brit bank was invaded and people dispersed - it seemed to rip the heart out of the game and it was never the same since for me. I could put up with the archaic clients, but the server became less populated and I lost interest.

Given the incredible depth of play, including lands, dungeons, infrastructure, character creation, items and monsters, if the client was brought into the modern age surely this would become a huge hit again and the UO revival could begin in earnest? David Garriots unofficial UO2 just doesn't cut it, nor do any other rpg I have played. I'm sure this could be done with some commitment and money. I lost track of who owns this game now, but surely something needs to be done to get the place buzzing again? There is certainly a market out there.
Here's hoping.
I'm going to reactivate my account this week to see if I can rekindle my love affair. I'm on Europa

 

[ShriNayne]

Welcome home! Please join us at the West Brit bank meet daily at 6 pm uk time for help and advice! We look forward to meeting you...

 

[Asheron]

Hey will do when I get chance - will there be some around about 8pm? That's usually when my girls are in bed and I get chance to go online

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Just so your prepared most of the shards are fairly dead. If you like busy like the old days you might want to look around Atlantic. I play Legends and it's fairly quiet but still has an active community under the surface which I'm totally happy with. Don't really know about Europa, I assume it sorta like Legends in population. On the plus side you'll never own a castle on Atlantic and I imagine on Europa you got a shot at it with a little looking around or bartering

 

[Tyrath]

You are the 4th person in the last 24 hours I have seen say the brit invasion was part of or one of the reasons for the decline. And I believe this. It along with a string of other stupid moves like killing despise and replacing it with a mini game Tram side, the destruction of Haven and turning it into the Hobo camp it is now, the inevitable power creep....... although in comparison to other games the power creep is more like power creep at warp speeds. The inflation and economy fueled by RMT and RMT Supporters, Every thing worth killing having ???? for Hit Points. The absolute crap low % of getting anything worthwhile after killing the critter with ???? Hit points........ EVERYTHING being a grand fest that really only full time UO players benefit from. When EM lottery items are consistently listed as one of the best ways to make gold in game. Yeah the heart was ripped out of the community at large, leaving only pockets of what once was. The 15-20 year old vets that have all the wrong answers that come out and wave their pom poms every time a bad decision is made and presume to speak for the entire UO community. Vets that have everything and all the plats one could ever want, that screech in horror if the Status Quo is threatened in any way. Rampant Scripting, Multiboxing, and scamming. Everything implemented to deter scripters turns out to benefit scripters and hurts the legit player.... IE Mining and LJ being randomized rarely will you see anyone mining or LJing now days unless it is a scripted rail bot or recall scrip. Serious bugs/exploits that are ignore ( One exploit on Siege I reported well over a year ago, is still working and I am guessing is common knowledge now among Siege vets. And that is just one) No one thing ripped the UO Community apart or made people say screw it and leave. Not hard to step back and look at the bigger picture and see all of the little things that chipped away at the player base over the years.

That being said I love UO and its is still very much worth playing. I just wish the Team would get fixated on undoing as many of the mistakes as can possibly be undone, fixing bugs and exploits that have been around for years and years and make UO Great Again

 

[Asheron]

Just so your prepared most of the shards are fairly dead. If you like busy like the old days you might want to look around Atlantic. I play Legends and it's fairly quiet but still has an active community under the surface which I'm totally happy with. Don't really know about Europa, I assume it sorta like Legends in population. On the plus side you'll never own a castle on Atlantic and I imagine on Europa you got a shot at it with a little looking around or bartering

That kind of ties in with the point of my OP - somebody needs to grab this by the ball and restore it to number 1.

I used to build and sell houses, last time I was on I sold an amazing 18x18 cottage for 87 mil, housing was very important to me

 

[Asheron]

You are the 4th person in the last 24 hours I have seen say the brit invasion was part of or one of the reasons for the decline. And I believe this. It along with a string of other stupid moves like killing despise and replacing it with a mini game Tram side, the destruction of Haven and turning it into the Hobo camp it is now, the inevitable power creep....... although in comparison to other games the power creep is more like power creep at warp speeds. The inflation and economy fueled by RMT and RMT Supporters, Every thing worth killing having ???? for Hit Points. The absolute crap low % of getting anything worthwhile after killing the critter with ???? Hit points........ EVERYTHING being a grand fest that really only full time UO players benefit from. When EM lottery items are consistently listed as one of the best ways to make gold in game. Yeah the heart was ripped out of the community at large, leaving only pockets of what once was. The 15-20 year old vets that have all the wrong answers that come out and wave their pom poms every time a bad decision is made and presume to speak for the entire UO community. Vets that have everything and all the plats one could ever want, that screech in horror if the Status Quo is threatened in any way. Rampant Scripting, Multiboxing, and scamming. Everything implemented to deter scripters turns out to benefit scripters and hurts the legit player.... IE Mining and LJ being randomized rarely will you see anyone mining or LJing now days unless it is a scripted rail bot or recall scrip. Serious bugs/exploits that are ignore ( One exploit on Siege I reported well over a year ago, is still working and I am guessing is common knowledge now among Siege vets. And that is just one) No one thing ripped the UO Community apart or made people say screw it and leave. Not hard to step back and look at the bigger picture and see all of the little things that chipped away at the player base over the years.

That being said I love UO and its is still very much worth playing. I just wish the Team would get fixated on undoing as many of the mistakes as can possibly be undone, fixing bugs and exploits that have been around for years and years and make UO Great Again

Great post
For me I could handle the scripting and so forth, the sole reason for my disappearance was the demolition of Brit bank. I would hang around after adventuring, meet new people, trade, make friends, go on quests, recruit a party - when I came back the only people i could find were at the bank in Luna and it was just a handful of afk'ers. The heart was ripped out at that very moment.
Invest the cash and make it great - i'd even help fund a kickstarter

 

[Fingers]

"David Garriots unofficial UO2"...............who?

 

[Yadd of Legends]

You are the 4th person in the last 24 hours I have seen say the brit invasion was part of or one of the reasons for the decline. And I believe this. It along with a string of other stupid moves like killing despise and replacing it with a mini game Tram side, the destruction of Haven and turning it into the Hobo camp it is now, the inevitable power creep....... although in comparison to other games the power creep is more like power creep at warp speeds. The inflation and economy fueled by RMT and RMT Supporters, Every thing worth killing having ???? for Hit Points. The absolute crap low % of getting anything worthwhile after killing the critter with ???? Hit points........ EVERYTHING being a grand fest that really only full time UO players benefit from. When EM lottery items are consistently listed as one of the best ways to make gold in game. Yeah the heart was ripped out of the community at large, leaving only pockets of what once was. The 15-20 year old vets that have all the wrong answers that come out and wave their pom poms every time a bad decision is made and presume to speak for the entire UO community. Vets that have everything and all the plats one could ever want, that screech in horror if the Status Quo is threatened in any way. Rampant Scripting, Multiboxing, and scamming. Everything implemented to deter scripters turns out to benefit scripters and hurts the legit player.... IE Mining and LJ being randomized rarely will you see anyone mining or LJing now days unless it is a scripted rail bot or recall scrip. Serious bugs/exploits that are ignore ( One exploit on Siege I reported well over a year ago, is still working and I am guessing is common knowledge now among Siege vets. And that is just one) No one thing ripped the UO Community apart or made people say screw it and leave. Not hard to step back and look at the bigger picture and see all of the little things that chipped away at the player base over the years.

That being said I love UO and its is still very much worth playing. I just wish the Team would get fixated on undoing as many of the mistakes as can possibly be undone, fixing bugs and exploits that have been around for years and years and make UO Great Again

You've pretty much summed it up. All the reasons UO for me now is a part-time game that I try not to take too seriously and just mess around doing what I feel like.

 

[Uvtha]

I haven't played in years, my prime was between 1999 and 2010 and every now and then I come back to it, although been away for a good few years.

No other RPG has come close to this in terms of depth and community, but for me what made me leave was when Brit bank was invaded and people dispersed - it seemed to rip the heart out of the game and it was never the same since for me. I could put up with the archaic clients, but the server became less populated and I lost interest.

Given the incredible depth of play, including lands, dungeons, infrastructure, character creation, items and monsters, if the client was brought into the modern age surely this would become a huge hit again and the UO revival could begin in earnest? David Garriots unofficial UO2 just doesn't cut it, nor do any other rpg I have played. I'm sure this could be done with some commitment and money. I lost track of who owns this game now, but surely something needs to be done to get the place buzzing again? There is certainly a market out there.
Here's hoping.
I'm going to reactivate my account this week to see if I can rekindle my love affair. I'm on Europa

Zero chance. But enjoy the game as it is!

 

[Acid Rain]

Welcome back, we missed ya.

 

[arkiu]

You are the 4th person in the last 24 hours I have seen say the brit invasion was part of or one of the reasons for the decline. And I believe this. It along with a string of other stupid moves like killing despise and replacing it with a mini game Tram side, the destruction of Haven and turning it into the Hobo camp it is now, the inevitable power creep....... although in comparison to other games the power creep is more like power creep at warp speeds. The inflation and economy fueled by RMT and RMT Supporters, Every thing worth killing having ???? for Hit Points. The absolute crap low % of getting anything worthwhile after killing the critter with ???? Hit points........ EVERYTHING being a grand fest that really only full time UO players benefit from. When EM lottery items are consistently listed as one of the best ways to make gold in game. Yeah the heart was ripped out of the community at large, leaving only pockets of what once was. The 15-20 year old vets that have all the wrong answers that come out and wave their pom poms every time a bad decision is made and presume to speak for the entire UO community. Vets that have everything and all the plats one could ever want, that screech in horror if the Status Quo is threatened in any way. Rampant Scripting, Multiboxing, and scamming. Everything implemented to deter scripters turns out to benefit scripters and hurts the legit player.... IE Mining and LJ being randomized rarely will you see anyone mining or LJing now days unless it is a scripted rail bot or recall scrip. Serious bugs/exploits that are ignore ( One exploit on Siege I reported well over a year ago, is still working and I am guessing is common knowledge now among Siege vets. And that is just one) No one thing ripped the UO Community apart or made people say screw it and leave. Not hard to step back and look at the bigger picture and see all of the little things that chipped away at the player base over the years.

That being said I love UO and its is still very much worth playing. I just wish the Team would get fixated on undoing as many of the mistakes as can possibly be undone, fixing bugs and exploits that have been around for years and years and make UO Great Again

Probably the most accurate summary of modern UO I've read, unfortunately.

For me personally, the massively inflated economy is the worst of it all. Back in the glory days i was a trader - was a great way to socialize in brit and was always competitive. It felt like rares, homes, and gear all had significant value and hunting and trading at times felt like a rush.

That feeling of excitment doesnt exist for me anymore. Market is saturated and there are too few players it seems for anything to really feel valuable. In my opinion this also makes most in game content feel kind of useless since the rewards of doing so feel very insignificant.

 

[Asheron]

"David Garriots unofficial UO2"...............who?

Yeah sorry Richard Garriot Shroud of the Avatar

 

[Asheron]

Zero chance. But enjoy the game as it is!

But why? Seems a no brainier to me, the game is legendary
If I had the cash, expertise and time I would! Everything bar the graphics is there already. I personally always play in 2d, but this isn't going to attract today's generation

 

[celticus]

2D is still rocking...

 

[Tyrath]

Probably the most accurate summary of modern UO I've read, unfortunately.

For me personally, the massively inflated economy is the worst of it all. Back in the glory days i was a trader - was a great way to socialize in brit and was always competitive. It felt like rares, homes, and gear all had significant value and hunting and trading at times felt like a rush.

That feeling of excitment doesnt exist for me anymore. Market is saturated and there are too few players it seems for anything to really feel valuable. In my opinion this also makes most in game content feel kind of useless since the rewards of doing so feel very insignificant.

I think that feeling of non accomplishment that just kind of hangs in the air of sosaria. I had a lucky two days a while back and pulled a Demon Cameo and two pairs of minax sandals and the excitement that should have been there was just not there. I don't want or need the gold for selling them, so two of my saltpeter miners got upgraded from soles of providence to minax sandals. The cameo I tossed on the floor of a house and locked it down for deco. And to tell the world "Yay Wow I got more junk to hoard!" Kind of like the 500 or so valorite runic hammers I have stacked up in a house, used to get a Val hammer and it was a rush........... now its just yep another one fer the pile. Starting to think UO is more habit than anything else for me.

 

[Uvtha]

But why? Seems a no brainier to me, the game is legendary
If I had the cash, expertise and time I would! Everything bar the graphics is there already. I personally always play in 2d, but this isn't going to attract today's generation

You don't have the cash expertise or time, and neither does the dev team... and you say everything barring the odd 30,000 pieces of reworked art is ready as if that's not a massive part of the whole deal.

They tried it twice now, both undertaken when the game had way more players, the last one taking a really big outside team like a year to not even finish right, and it was dropped like a hot brick less than a year into it's life.

UO is clearly on the barest of minimum budgets at this point, and the odds of a huge undertaking like yet another new client no one will use are just zero.

 

[Tina Small]

I noticed a large number of people quit playing UO in 2007.

We had the ophidian invasion in the summer/fall of 2006. It was awesome. But then as 2006 ended, people started playing less and less and then quitting as 2007 started. My suspicion now is that some of them were in a secret focus group and knew what was coming and didn't like it. In the spring of 2007, we started to find out about the Kingdom Reborn client. I will never forget the anticipation that built up as people waited the hours it took for the new client to download. There was a HUGE thread here on Stratics as people talked about anything and everything as we all waited. And then there was the letdown and disappointment as the download finished and we all logged in and were horrified by the appearance of our avatars' paperdolls and the huge changes to Haven. Eventually EA relented and agreed to fix the female paperdolls, but I think a huge amount of damage was done in the process and many people were still angry/disappointed about the male paperdolls in the KR client. A number of people who had been using the 3D client were angry/disappointed when it was discontinued in favor of the new KR client. I think many people lost faith around that time that the producer and dev team had any idea what players really wanted. It probably didn't help that The Lord of the Rings Online was released right around this time and gave people something new to try.

In the summer of 2007, there was a big mess when EA bungled handling a PvP focus group. You had to apply to join the group. However, some of the people in it decided to start talking publicly about not-yet-released information and EA kicked everyone out of the focus group and then secretly started another one with just a handful of people. There was a lot of resentment that the PvP changes that came about from the focus group (publish 46) were derived from just a couple of people and EA had unjustly treated just about everyone in the first group as bad actors.

Also that summer came the randomization changes to mining and lumberjacking. And soon after, EA quietly began the process of moving what was left of the UO team from California to Virginia. I think some players who were friendly with various members of the UO team found out about the change and felt the writing was on the wall for UO at that point and they quit because of that.

All in all, I think 2007 was a watershed year for UO, and not in a good way either.

 

[Asheron]

You don't have the cash expertise or time, and neither does the dev team... and you say everything barring the odd 30,000 pieces of reworked art is ready as if that's not a massive part of the whole deal.

They tried it twice now, both undertaken when the game had way more players, the last one taking a really big outside team like a year to not even finish right, and it was dropped like a hot brick less than a year into it's life.

UO is clearly on the barest of minimum budgets at this point, and the odds of a huge undertaking like yet another new client no one will use are just zero.

Yeah I get that, but there is demand for these types of games. It's chicken and egg - new people not attracted, no investment due to lack of new players. If done properly it can work given the depth and scale of this game. Just needs someone with the vision and wallet to back it up. So much potential

 

[Arcus]

Legends of Aria is UO 2017 . Along with reactivating your UO account it is worht a look. Sumpreeme is one of the devs.

 

[Asheron]

Looked into it already but a lot of reviews and comments put me off

 

[Arcus]

Looked into it already but a lot of reviews and comments put me off

If anyone reviewed UO today do you think the reviews and comments would be anything good? Its in closed BETA now. It is UO built in 2017 .

 

[MalagAste]

If anyone reviewed UO today do you think the reviews and comments would be anything good? Its in closed BETA now. It is UO built in 2017 .

No it isn't... and it still looks like something out of a cartoon... I'm thinking that one with Garfield on the farm...

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

Won’t let me quote. But in regards to the post about 2007. I loved 3D. My absolute favorite client. When they shut it down, I was heartbroken. I like the functionality of EC over cc but my computer doesn’t handle it very well. Plus I multi client so it’s much easier in CC. When they shut down 3D is when I took a 8 year hiatus.
Now, everything has just compounded and it’s too little too late


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Uvtha]

Yeah I get that, but there is demand for these types of games. It's chicken and egg - new people not attracted, no investment due to lack of new players. If done properly it can work given the depth and scale of this game. Just needs someone with the vision and wallet to back it up. So much potential

It would be simpler to make a UO2. If anyone cared, and was willing to pay for it, that's what they would do.

 

[MalagAste]

It would be simpler to make a UO2. If anyone cared, and was willing to pay for it, that's what they would do.

Pretty sure that's what the ex UO DEVs are trying to do... but... bad art...

 

[Fingers]

Yeah sorry Richard Garriot Shroud of the Avatar

I play SoTA and it is not UO2.

 

[MalagAste]

I play SoTA and it is not UO2.

Legends or Aria? Is that the one Supreeme and all them are working on... was shards or something... SoTA is also NOT an MMO.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Shroud of the Avatar definitely is not UO2. Honestly at this point it's more like a science fiction movie than it is like UO (electricity, robots, radios, flying ships all exist).

Legends of Aria, personally I also don't think is like UO. They tried to model it after UO originally, but it's just not the same type of game. Even the base concept of it that people can create their own shards to play on, is so unlike UO. Most of the reason UO has such a strong community is because we are all forced to play together in the same space whether we want to or not. If someone is hunting a boss, you have to fight it with them because it's the only boss. There is no solo option in UO like there are in other games.

Without that forced interaction no game will ever be like UO. When they can just go make their own shard and play all by themselves in Legends of Aria, it's not the same type of community interaction at all, and that interaction is what made UO popular.

 

[deadite]

Legends of Aria, personally I also don't think is like UO. They tried to model it after UO originally, but it's just not the same type of game. Even the base concept of it that people can create their own shards to play on, is so unlike UO. Most of the reason UO has such a strong community is because we are all forced to play together in the same space whether we want to or not. If someone is hunting a boss, you have to fight it with them because it's the only boss. There is no solo option in UO like there are in other games.

While I understand your sentiment, I have to disagree. The custom shard bit of Legends of Aria definitely comes from it's Neverwinter Nights (Bioware) influence, but I can't think of another MMORPG that has had more customized private servers launched than UO. Tons of people have created their own custom UO shards to play on... and even though a lot of folks here dislike it, private shard players are still a huge part of the overall UO community. The Legends of Aria team bringing those kinds of players into the official game's fold is really quite brilliant.

 

[Uvtha]

Pretty sure that's what the ex UO DEVs are trying to do... but... bad art...

Yeah... no one ever gets a good combo of art and gameplay for my taste.

 

[MalagAste]

Yeah... no one ever gets a good combo of art and gameplay for my taste.

I agree... Landmark had awesome art for the most part... but seriously BAD gameplay... they had a good starting idea... but fired the only person that really cared, dumped it off on another company who then shoved it out too soon after... and quickly destroyed it and closed it... also didn't listen to the playerbase...

WoW has ok graphics some are silly.... but no housing to speak of... and it's a nosering game. Not so good for RP.

EQ is okish... but griefing is rampant. Poor RP.

FFXIV is ok... has limited housing... but again nosering game. ZERO RP room.

Heard quite a bit of good things about LoTRO but never really cared for that... somethings were off about it.

SoTA is NOT an MMO...

Aria... cartoonish. Major turn off for me.

I bought into Skyrim Online but haven't yet tried it... I have a feeling it's a nosering game.

 

[Uvtha]

I bought into Skyrim Online but haven't yet tried it... I have a feeling it's a nosering game.

Oh... sorta? I didn't like it much anyway. I'd rather just play skyrim heh.

 

[MalagAste]

Oh... sorta? I didn't like it much anyway. I'd rather just play skyrim heh.

I think I'd be that way as well... my son gives me crap because I play on God Mode... and I told him I only do that because I hate my pack being too full all the time...

I like the exploring and doing the quests parts... I honestly don't care about how "hard" it is to fight or anything... it's about what you enjoy in the game.

I like No Man's Sky but that's also not an MMO and it's certainly not RP. Interesting graphics in that. Love flying the ships and killing stuff and again the exploring parts.

 

[Uvtha]

I like No Man's Sky but that's also not an MMO and it's certainly not RP. Interesting graphics in that. Love flying the ships and killing stuff and again the exploring parts.

I LOVED that game for the first like week even. My interest went down rapidly after that, but it was a fun experience while it lasted.

 

[MalagAste]

I LOVED that game for the first like week even. My interest went down rapidly after that, but it was a fun experience while it lasted.

Have you tried it since the 1.3 update???? Since you can build a base and have a freighter?

 

[Uvtha]

Have you tried it since the 1.3 update???? Since you can build a base and have a freighter?

Na, but I have thought about it. May just pop her in one day.

 

[MalagAste]

Na, but I have thought about it. May just pop her in one day.

If you do there is a really good informative Discord I found for No Man's Sky. Discord - Free voice and text chat for gamers Massive amount of players there.

 

[Fingers]

Legends or Aria? Is that the one Supreeme and all them are working on... was shards or something... SoTA is also NOT an MMO.

The King and the Lord work on it. I dunno about supreeme.
I didnt say SoTA "was" an MMO.........yet. It definitely IS an "mo"......just not quite the massively yet!

 

[cholupa]

I tried SOTA for 5 min. When I found out you can't place items on the ground like you can in UO, I was done.

 

[DJAd]

I was disappointed with shroud of the avatar. I've not played legends of aria for ages so maybe it's time to take another look. I've mostly been playing Albion online.

 

[Stubentiger]

I tried SOTA for 5 min. When I found out you can't place items on the ground like you can in UO, I was done.

Meh...
Two things I check on mmos these days.
Can you put stuff on the ground and does it have collission detection.

Thought at least sota would let you put stuff on the ground

Still hoping for ARIA.

Doesn't UO have some events/quest player driven system planned?
Why can't you bury treasure in uo and get a map from he spot? Hire monsters to guard it.
But I am sure they have it planned.

 

[MalagAste]

Meh...
Two things I check on mmos these days.
Can you put stuff on the ground and does it have collission detection.

Thought at least sota would let you put stuff on the ground

Still hoping for ARIA.

Doesn't UO have some events/quest player driven system planned?
Why can't you bury treasure in uo and get a map from he spot? Hire monsters to guard it.
But I am sure they have it planned.

That is a great idea! And Yes I believe it does have something like that planned.

 

[railshot]

I agree... Landmark had awesome art for the most part... but seriously BAD gameplay... they had a good starting idea... but fired the only person that really cared, dumped it off on another company who then shoved it out too soon after... and quickly destroyed it and closed it... also didn't listen to the playerbase...

WoW has ok graphics some are silly.... but no housing to speak of... and it's a nosering game. Not so good for RP.

EQ is okish... but griefing is rampant. Poor RP.

FFXIV is ok... has limited housing... but again nosering game. ZERO RP room.

Heard quite a bit of good things about LoTRO but never really cared for that... somethings were off about it.

SoTA is NOT an MMO...

Aria... cartoonish. Major turn off for me.

I bought into Skyrim Online but haven't yet tried it... I have a feeling it's a nosering game.

I did not like much the cartoonishness of Landmark, WoW and EQ2.
I do wish Vanguard was still around.
LoTRO did not attract me either (I think it was the zoning that turned me off).
I tried Skyrim online in open beta. It was clearly made for consoles with only 3 active abilities that you could use and I just hated it.
I had the same problem with FFXIV - primitive combat mechanics made for consoles.

 

[MalagAste]

I did not like much the cartoonishness of Landmark, WoW and EQ2.
I do wish Vanguard was still around.
LoTRO did not attract me either (I think it was the zoning that turned me off).
I tried Skyrim online in open beta. It was clearly made for consoles with only 3 active abilities that you could use and I just hated it.
I had the same problem with FFXIV - primitive combat mechanics made for consoles.

I didn't think Landmark was that bad... really enjoyed watching the sunsets. Kinda miss them...

 

[ShriNayne]

Vanguard....I was in the beta test and the game ran really badly on my PC. I went back for another look a long time later and really liked it, but so many quests were bugged and it was obvious the game wasn't getting any love, such a shame!

 

[railshot]

Vanguard....I was in the beta test and the game ran really badly on my PC. I went back for another look a long time later and really liked it, but so many quests were bugged and it was obvious the game wasn't getting any love, such a shame!

They eventually worked out most of the bad bugs.
I tried Vanguard at release and stopped because it was unfinished. Then tried EQ2 and quit after realizing that I will never learn to tolerate plastic cartoony art there. Some years later I came back to Vanguard and had a lot of fun playing it until if was finally shut down. Decided to give EQ2 a try, and was floored. In the same number of years the amount of content in EQ2 went up 5 times or so. While Vanguard received one dungeon and some bug fixes. Both owned by Sony, but you quickly realize who is the red headed step child there.
On one side I am grateful to Sony for saving the game. On the other side, I am really puzzled about why would anyone buy an MMO to just life support it.

 

[ShriNayne]

@railshot I agree with everything you said, Vanguard was a fun game with a lot of potential, that mini-game card game it had, the Diplomacy one, my husband loved that! It just never got the time and effort spent on it that it deserved, considering how much I hated it in beta it had come a long way. If they had spent a bit of time sorting out the bugs and adding a bit of new content I think it could have done quite well. But they didn't bother...

 

[deadite]

I miss Vanguard so much. It had so much potential. Huge open world, ships, persistent housing. It was so ambitious and they eventually came so close to pulling it off.

Darkfall was also pretty close for me. Big open world, persistent housing, ship travel, skill based (as in rather than level based)... but it being a PVP gankfest made it a no-go.

Then there's Istaria. Sigh.

Almost. Almost. Almost.

 

[ShriNayne]

Ahhh Istaria (formerly Horizons), another one I beta tested, that game was so incredible when I first tried it, character creation was just amazing for the time! But oh my god the bugs, corpses sliding UPHILL, rubber-banding like I've never seen anywhere else! Cities that caused so much lag you had to restart the game and sometimes the PC...UO seems well-made and bug-free in comparison!