A Heinous Act by the guild named Cartel ($C$)

[Robin_of_Moxy]

Last night something amazing happened on the Pacific shard. During a spawn of Scalis in Buc's den a call went out for help to anyone on the shard willing to help as the group doing the spawn was unable to defeat their foe. The rally cry was heard and many (likely most) of the shards players showed up to help. They worked together, healed each other and their pets. It was the best example of teamwork by players that hardly knew each other that I have seen in years!

The battle insued for quite a while but, in the end the foe was defeated. The feeling of brotherhood was in the air. Thanks went out over global chat and I think most were as amazed with the outpouring of support not normally seen. It even may have been a Catalyst for future such events!

Enter the guild called "Cartel ($C$)". Only a few seconds after the victory they deployed a ship over the top of the spawn corpse. They would allow no one access to the looting rights and waited for the corpse to allow full looting rights. That however, was not the worst part! They gloated over global chat and taunted the entire shard over what they had done. They told all the players that we should consider it a lesson that we should not ask for each others help for that is not something they were willing to allow.

As you may imagine many were upset by this and one Veteran player vowed to leave the game with her many accounts. It is behavior like this that can drive players away from the game we all love. With a falling player base on our shard we simply can't afford this kind of cruelty. Sad thing is nothing can really be done as what they did is allowable in the game mechanics nor is it really possible to for the devs to code anything to stop it even though it happened in Trammel.

So what is my goal/purpose for posting this? It is my hope that those that read this will join me in raising the bar on how we treat others in game. If you know someone in this guild let them know how unacceptable and destructive their attitude is. Honor is important is all we do. Honor is a gift man gives to himself. Without honor you are not a man but, just something less.

Robin of Moxy

 

[Capt. Lucky]

That's such a classic old school UO move. Can't help but laugh. Reminds me of just another day in UO back in the lake 90's.

 

[MalagAste]

Exactly what I keep saying... our own playerbase is destroying the community of UO... we are our worst enemy and it's not improving nor will it since the DEV's and the GM's seem to not care... I suppose this is where years of treating the playerbase as if they are the worst bunch of lying, cheating, scamming jerks on the planet gets you... eventually that's all you have left in the game because as you have pointed out.... most all of the decent players quit.... because other games do NOT treat their players this way.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

Exactly what I keep saying... our own playerbase is destroying the community of UO... we are our worst enemy and it's not improving nor will it since the DEV's and the GM's seem to not care... I suppose this is where years of treating the playerbase as if they are the worst bunch of lying, cheating, scamming jerks on the planet gets you... eventually that's all you have left in the game because as you have pointed out.... most all of the decent players quit.... because other games do NOT treat their players this way.

Only way to stop it is to let those doing it how unacceptable it is. If every player took a stand some of the grief style players would change their tune. Sadly though it would be impossible to remove it completely from UO. I imagine though all MMO's have grief players. Some people are just wired that way so I speak of those that do it just to follow or fit in. That said there is something wrong with people that take joy in the misery of their fellow players on a deep personal level.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Come to Siege where that type of play could be countered with force...la


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[Parnoc]

What's such a big deal of getting to loot the corpse? The artifacts drop into your backpack anyhow, right? I've never got anything off Scalis' corpse that meant much myself. Let em play their stupid idiot bullying games, go to any dungeon and get as good loot as there is on Scalis anyhow if you're looking for relic unravel stuff.

 

[MalagAste]

Only way to stop it is to let those doing it how unacceptable it is. If every player took a stand some of the grief style players would change their tune. Sadly though it would be impossible to remove it completely from UO. I imagine though all MMO's have grief players. Some people are just wired that way so I speak of those that do it just to follow or fit in. That said there is something wrong with people that take joy in the misery of their fellow players on a deep personal level.

Siege wouldn't allow that sort of thing... this is true.. I've seen it. You act like a Jerk over there they'll simply never sell to you.... they will kill you on sight and generally make your play a living hell.... But on other shards... most folk are too greedy to stop selling to some jerk group.... or the jerk group just goes out and changes their guild title.... or whatever... they get away with a lot more because folk don't know them and there is no way to track them. Siege you are one person.... everyone knows you. You act like a jerk sure you can delete your char and start anew but people quickly figure out who you are again.... and changing your name won't help you as your # in chat stays the same.

 

[Viquire]

Well, its unfortunate. But I still assert it is a people problem, not a mechanic problem. Good job building a team to get it done!

Now, what did you learn?

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

What's such a big deal of getting to loot the corpse? The artifacts drop into your backpack anyhow, right? I've never got anything off Scalis' corpse that meant much myself. Let em play their stupid idiot bullying games, go to any dungeon and get as good loot as there is on Scalis anyhow if you're looking for relic unravel stuff.

The looting of the corpse is not really the issue here. Your right the loot would hard be worth crying over. Instead it was the act followed by the gloating on global chat that upset so many. The grief style of play.

 

[Robin_of_Moxy]

Well, its unfortunate. But I still assert it is a people problem, not a mechanic problem. Good job building a team to get it done!

Now, what did you learn?

Yup as said in my post.. Nothing here that the Devs can do about it. It is the people on the shard that must send the message that grief play of this sort will not be accepted. Otherwise it will go on and on.

What did I learn? I learned that even though there are griefers the majority of people are of good intentions and willing to help when called upon. That alone keeps me playing.

 

[Viquire]

People watching has always been one of my favorite past times, and this game allows for that activity in spectacularly unrestricted ways. Calvin of Calvin and Hobbs fame was always a favorite character of mine, and his desire to know, and roleplay the answer to his own question "What happens next?"

 

[Smoot]

saying not looting the corpse isnt an issue is crazy. your much more likely to get a piece of armor worth 100mil than an artie drop.

every single one of those people at the scalis could quit and it wouldnt make a difference to Cartel guild. people would still buy their multi-box program event drops, they will still impersonate my good friend olcher, videos will still be posted, mesanna will continue to ignore it all.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Heinous?
Can we be more dramatic?
And vowing to close multiple accounts over a bad deed and some taunting? Seriously? Don't TOS state that you have to be over 14 to play.
A group of newbies were in over their head and advertised it in chat and were then taken advantage of. It was wrong and I believe that any players doing that kind of crap are total asswipes but it is just a game folks. Lighten up.
I hope the real lesson learned though is not to start something you obviously cannot finish.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Siege wouldn't allow that sort of thing... this is true.. I've seen it. You act like a Jerk over there they'll simply never sell to you.... they will kill you on sight and generally make your play a living hell....

QFT...la

 

[cazador]

Next time do it in fel..band together, kill them. Bring your ships and scuttle them! Sorry for the D-Baggery you've experienced


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[Zuckuss]

I would have at least boxed them in and destroyed their boat. I don't remember if you can hop on their ship after it's destroyed or not. If so this would have been an excellent opportunity to grief the griefers.

 

[Peekay]

lmfao.
classic.

 

[Troll The T Hunter]

this is the problem with Trammel, hunt in fel or come to siege.

 

[Picus at the office]

Plan better, finish the hunt and loot everything. Stuff happens, do you want the dev team to ban them all?

 

[yardman]

Isnt Bucs Den a pirate town.....Just saying

 

[Peekay]

Nobody understands or appreciates the level unto which Cartel takes Roleplaying to. =/

 

[cazador]

Yea maybe so..but regardless it's a **** move to grief the trammies..it's like the big kid picking on the little kid. Problem is the big kid always runs from the other big kids..stick to griefing $C$ better off that way..at least you aren't dying at the gate


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[Lt.Snuggles]

moxy.... lol.......LOL! a's my good friend said...CLASSIC!!

 

[petemage]

It's no question a very douchy move.

But I never give them back what they so much seek for: I never talk back to them! Go on talk to your guys how fun the hunt was. Talk about how nobody cares for some loot anyways. But just don't feed them,

I get griefed quite a lot at the griefers hotspots Take Despise on Atl. When AND? is there you basically have little chances to do any boss runs at all. Not because this guy is somehow much better than anyone else, but because he knows some trick to make you're pet stuck! He lures them into some opposite spawn, bugs the pet, and mostly you're done. One by one, until no one has a pet left. Than he goes over to hunt the player with his pets, he locked savely between some Naba spawn. At times I even die. But I don't care tbh. Because of that one time I got my level 15 pet locked behind me around a single tile corner his pets couldn't move to. I never saw this guy in so much rage, like hundres of "GET OFF MY LAWN" Needlessly to say I camped the boss as long as I could do solo afterwards

P.S. If anybody knows how I can unstuck theese bugged pets, pleeeeease drop me a PM

 

[Assia Penryn]

Nobody understands or appreciates the level unto which Cartel takes Roleplaying to. =/

I wasn't there... but.... I have ZERO problem with people ACTUALLY role-playing jerks. Evil roleplay is wonderful. However, REAL roleplayers wouldn't troll a community via chat and antagonize them, nor would they grief in a way that had to do with GAME mechanics. If you want to role-play evil... do it... don't be jerks attempting to hide as rpers. That was a pathetic attempt at "evil roleplay". Seriously.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I am disgusted by the people who are making excuses for, or encouraging, griefers. By definition, they are not community-minded players. If UO is to survive, we need to actively encourage people to play as a community, especially if we want new people to stay.

FYI, griefing is not "role play" in any way, shape or form. It does not seek to create a story or build community. Griefing is nothing more than the willful harassment of others for the selfish/sadistic/malicious entertainment of oneself, or other socially inept individuals.

 

[Elden of Baja]

Pictures or it never happened.

 

[Peekay]

I am disgusted by the people who are making excuses for, or encouraging, griefers. By definition, they are not community-minded players. If UO is to survive, we need to actively encourage people to play as a community, especially if we want new people to stay.

FYI, griefing is not "role play" in any way, shape or form. It does not seek to create a story or build community. Griefing is nothing more than the willful harassment of others for the selfish/sadistic/malicious entertainment of oneself, or other socially inept individuals.

And yet once upon a time there were clans of Orcs who would roam the lands and take over player towns, stealing houses and items, killing players and inhabiting those lands for days on end... I guess they weren't roleplaying either, just griefing and harassing others simply on the premise that they were socially inept and required entertainment, and that they were also perhaps naturally selfish/sadistic/malicious.

 

[Fingers]

Nobody understands or appreciates the level unto which Cartel takes Roleplaying to. =/

Or cares.

 

[Picus at the office]

A guild is a community. Sure it has walls, gates and is selective in whom it allows to be a member but it is a community all the same. If the OP had worded the post differently and not included the dramatic "As you may imagine many were upset by this and one Veteran player vowed to leave the game with her many accounts." I don't think that so many would jump to conclude this is simply a cry for attention.

Sorry you couldn't finish the spawn, you lost your loot and all that. Sucks that Cartel griefed you but such is life. I can't help but think that if we were back 15 years ago the spawning group would have been able to defend better but, sadly, the can't.

 

[Mervyn]

What's this thread about? I don't understand the point the OP is making.

 

[Fingers]

Sorry you couldn't finish the spawn, you lost your loot and all that. Sucks that Cartel griefed you but such is life. I can't help but think that if we were back 15 years ago the spawning group would have been able to defend better but, sadly, the can't.

15 years ago the whole guild would have been banned for griefing.

 

[Fingers]

What's this thread about? I don't understand the point the OP is making.

Griefing.
Shouldnt be that hard to figure out.
What would you call placing a boat over the corpse to prevent looting and the chit chat comments made in gen chat?

 

[Fingers]

Sorry you couldn't finish the spawn, you lost your loot and all that. Sucks that Cartel griefed you but such is life. I can't help but think that if we were back 15 years ago the spawning group would have been able to defend better but, sadly, the can't.

15 years ago the whole guild would have been banned for griefing.

 

[Fingers]

And yet once upon a time there were clans of Orcs who would roam the lands and take over player towns, stealing houses and items, killing players and inhabiting those lands for days on end... I guess they weren't roleplaying either, just griefing and harassing others simply on the premise that they were socially inept and required entertainment, and that they were also perhaps naturally selfish/sadistic/malicious.

Did they place a boat over the corpse's, which is no doubt griefing? Putting a boat over scalis to prevent looting and then commenting about such griefing in gen chat is role play? *rolls eyes*

 

[Peekay]

Did they place a boat over the corpse's, which is no doubt griefing? Putting a boat over scalis to prevent looting and then commenting about such griefing in gen chat is role play? *rolls eyes*

I don't know. I do know that there were also fleets of Pirates who would actively hunt people down on the oceans (usually Fishers, Miners, MIB hunters and Serverline riders) who would not only take over the loot/spawn that a person worked towards, but would also sneer and make snide comments all with wacky accents and neat hats! Again, probably not "REAL" Roleplayers either, just more social degenerates looking to rain on someone's parade, people who couldn't possibly understand the basis of "REAL" roleplaying. Nonetheless, boats were clearly involved.

Maybe I should coin a term for this, maybe... Non-consensual Roleplaying, or something like that. :X

 

[Peekay]

Whatever happened to the acceptance of risk vs reward and calling UO a Sandbox MMO?

Not everything is perfect, and hell if it was, then I'm sure some rare collector would have it sitting in their castle right now. So it's not like we'd ever see it anyways, or at least not until they took it out to sell it for more gold than is imaginable! Whatever it might be.

 

[Dot_Warner]

And yet once upon a time there were clans of Orcs who would roam the lands and take over player towns, stealing houses and items, killing players and inhabiting those lands for days on end... I guess they weren't roleplaying either, just griefing and harassing others simply on the premise that they were socially inept and required entertainment, and that they were also perhaps naturally selfish/sadistic/malicious.

This is little more than a strawman.

The orc clans weren't griefers. They weren't going around intentionally harassing others or intending to ruin their play.

Did they pk? Sure, it was Fel. Did they then stand over the body emoting obscene things? No, they would have been booted from their guild for being an asshat and ruining the RP. Did they go to events and try to ruin them? No, they were RPers who were helping build their shard's community.

Nice try at sophistry though.

 

[Peekay]

This is little more than a strawman.

The orc clans weren't griefers. They weren't going around intentionally harassing others or intending to ruin their play.

Did they pk? Sure, it was Fel. Did they then stand over the body emoting obscene things? No, they would have been booted from their guild for being an asshat and ruining the RP. Did they go to events and try to ruin them? No, they were RPers who were helping build their shard's community.

Nice try at sophistry though.

Clearly we have different experiences with Orc Clans of the past
Orc clans on Baja were ruthless.

 

[Picus at the office]

Are we sure that the corpse didn't have some issue being slightly away from land thus a boat was needed to loot? I could see this happening and Cartel just happened to get the boat in water first. I don't know but it could have been that way, I wasn't there.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Clearly we have different experiences with Orc Clans of the past
Orc clans on Baja were ruthless.

Ruthless? In their intentionally stunted templates and ringmail/orc helm armor?

 

[Peekay]

Ruthless? In their intentionally stunted templates and ringmail/orc helm armor?

Again, different experiences. Not all RP was the same across all the servers. Infact I don't remember rules stating "You cannot have XXX skills". And it wasn't uncommon to come across them training skills either.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

Great work Cartel. I remember my days on Pac and there was quite a bit of crying then too.
[PK Action Barbie and Ito Taktukikasa]

OP: Ask teh chick who's quitting if I can has her stuff!

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Great work Cartel. I remember my days on Pac and there was quite a bit of crying then too.
[PK Action Barbie and Ito Taktukikasa]

OP: Ask teh chick who's quitting if I can has her stuff!

Whenever there is a a way to take advantage of a system and gain something by grief others - there will a segment of people who do just that. These people and groups usually ban together and form the guilds and test the bounds of game mechanics and fair play. If there is something in game you shouldn't be able to do (like prevent a corpse being looted in Tram, they will test every game mechanic that might have been overlooked or placed in game for another purpose and grief people. The more bragging rights and items it will yeild the more likely it will be to occur.

In the beginning UO was the first game of its kind and the creators had no idea how "clever" players become in finding ways to grief others. As the game evolved each successive group of Dev's has found ways to limit this type of play.

This sounds like one of the few instances that remains, probably because its not "that common" of an occurance to have been noticed. Hopefully a post like this gets the attention of the Dev's and they add something that will prevent griefing of the corpse by placing a boat.

In the meantime, the players that have experienced this type of griefing need to take measures to protect themselves until a time the game mechanics are adjusted. Having a person with a boat ready would be a great start.

To all those who are congratulating Cartel for taking advantage of a group that was unaware of this exploit (its an exploit because the intention of Tram is to allow the rightful looters access to the body and the Cartel group found a trick in game mechanics to by pass looting rights). Some of you have posted great ideas for the game, its systems and its future.....But if you think this type of thing is "cool", "good for the game" or "role-playing" then how can the playerbase at large take you seriously. Any post about VvV, looting, or things that need to be addressed or fixed in game are going to be viewed as "likely self serving and unbalanced incorporating some mechanic people are not thinking about so they and those they run with can take advantage. Because that segment of the playerbase I am talking about is you. Thanks for showing us your true colors.

I am very sorry what happened to what should have been an awesome and fun hunt and was turned into a terrible experience by griefers. I hope this negative experience can benefit other players who might be subject to such tactics and brings to light an issue the Dev's can look into that they may not have been aware.

-Lore's Player

 

[SpyderBite]

It's not griefing. It's strategy. A strategy that unfortunately has no defense such as push through, casting offensive spells such as fields, and fighting each other.

Defenses which are ironically considered griefing by majority of players who wished themselves segregated from such actions.

What a juxtaposition you've got there.

 

[The Zog historian]

I wasn't there... but.... I have ZERO problem with people ACTUALLY role-playing jerks. Evil roleplay is wonderful. However, REAL roleplayers wouldn't troll a community via chat and antagonize them, nor would they grief in a way that had to do with GAME mechanics. If you want to role-play evil... do it... don't be jerks attempting to hide as rpers. That was a pathetic attempt at "evil roleplay". Seriously.

"Roleplaying" has been an excuse since the game started. Did the infamous MDK guild merely "roleplay" a bunch of depraved killers?

I've seen far more griefers than genuine roleplayers. Whatever someone's opinion of what Cartel did, let everyone be honest about it: it was no more than an attempt to use game mechanics to screw up others' gameplay. "Do it in Fel" or "Do it on Siege" are no excuses because people shouldn't have to put up with such behavior.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

"Do it in Fel" or "Do it on Siege" are no excuses because people shouldn't have to put up with such behavior.

You are right, they aren't "excuses" they are a means to avoid these actions that apparently can't/won't be stopped by the developers...la

 

[The Zog historian]

This is little more than a strawman.

The orc clans weren't griefers. They weren't going around intentionally harassing others or intending to ruin their play.

Did they pk? Sure, it was Fel. Did they then stand over the body emoting obscene things? No, they would have been booted from their guild for being an asshat and ruining the RP. Did they go to events and try to ruin them? No, they were RPers who were helping build their shard's community.

Nice try at sophistry though.

The genuine orcs were on Catskills, weren't they? They also largely confined themselves to the orc fort. "Human" visitors could expect to get attacked, but to my knowledge they never spread far beyond there. Any such thing, e.g. camping the crossroads for any victims happening by, would have been merely an excuse, because those PKing didn't have the guts to admit they were just looking to cause other players misery.

 

[SpyderBite]

"Do it in Fel" or "Do it on Siege" are no excuses because people shouldn't have to put up with such behavior.

And yet, without argument, the folks who say that are right. Go figure.

 

[Ender]

Oh look, a tale of people doing douchebags in UO. I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.

And people saying it's okay on these forums... Really?