A glimpse into UO economy

[linko50]

Lynn of Tradespot messaged me yesterday after i inquired if she would take gold for her atlantic house, she stated she had just sold it for 2000$ real cash, and no matter how much, she wasnt accepting gold.....

Has UO gold gone to where it has absolutely NO value even in UO?
WoW, talk about an out of control economy, i dont think you can even buy an atlantic house now for gold, other than the 7x7's and even then it is somewhere above 500 million...... isnt it time we devised a plan to rid the UO world of this overstock of gold?

I personally have over a billion, and it isnt worth crap, take it, all of it, so long as you take EVERYONES

 

[ColterDC]

Sounds like the real problem is gold farmers, brokers and people selling pixels for RL money.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

*Shrug*

A perspective that may be more revealing is this.

The House was worth $2000 (US?) to some one.

$2000 Real Life Currency. Doesn't that tell you something?

With house prices in that range, then UO and its community probably would greatly benefit from a subscription rate increase, of course with the assumption that the revenue would go to support UO.

 

[Mulch]

$2000 for a house?
Are you sure it is not $20?

And yes as broker I also would not take gold anymore, as it is probably a pan to sell on these days.

 

[love2winalot]

Well EA loves people who sell their accounts for real life cash, and those who buy items/gold for cash. Why? Because the Buyer is going to keep playing the game, and paying for the account they just bought, or the items they just bought.

From EA standpoint, this is much better than the player who says, " I am out of here, NO, you can't have my stuff", and just cancels his account.

Everyone who cancels, insteads of Sells, cost EA Money.

 

[THP]

Im pretty damn sure i can place you several mediumn size houses on Atlantic mate for free....dont think u need to spend 500m for a logcabin quite yet.

By the way ...u are quite right...Why the hell someone would pay $2000 u.s. dollars for a pixel house is quite and utterly beyond me???..then again maybe its me..maybe iam the strange one and everyone else is sane???

 

[THP]

And let me say one more thing for EVERYONE TO THINK ABOUT!!!

There is only ONE certainty in our life and that my freinds is death!!

UO ''will finally die'' be it and hopefully another 10 years time ..alas in the end it will be gone and all the pixels with it.....

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Lynn of Tradespot messaged me yesterday after i inquired if she would take gold for her atlantic house, she stated she had just sold it for 2000$ real cash, and no matter how much, she wasnt accepting gold.....

Has UO gold gone to where it has absolutely NO value even in UO?
WoW, talk about an out of control economy, i dont think you can even buy an atlantic house now for gold, other than the 7x7's and even then it is somewhere above 500 million...... isnt it time we devised a plan to rid the UO world of this overstock of gold?

I personally have over a billion, and it isnt worth crap, take it, all of it, so long as you take EVERYONES

What are you talking about?
I just bought 2 trammel houses for 20 million each. One 16x18 Trammel. and the other 17x18 Trammel.

Housing is dirt cheap.

Besides lots of players have great jobs and extra cash and buy what they want to play.

Whats it to you or others?

As for the economy... Dang if you can sell something for $2000 that a stimulus package for the real economy. Thank GOD for UO. It will help pull us out of a recession.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

you offered gp for a Luna location ?



... to a Broker?

How much sand for a barrel of oil ?


oooohhhhhh! oooooooohhhHHH! STOP!

NOW your trying "economics?"







mmmMMNnMNNNNNNNghhhhhhh ....

 

[Theo_GL]

*Shrug*

A perspective that may be more revealing is this.

The House was worth $2000 (US?) to some one.

$2000 Real Life Currency. Doesn't that tell you something?

With house prices in that range, then UO and its community probably would greatly benefit from a subscription rate increase, of course with the assumption that the revenue would go to support UO.

What does that tell me? They found a complete SUCKER to sell it to. Who in their right mind would pay $$ for a virtual house that they don't even OWN?

You can buy a used car for $2k. Far more usefulness than a luna house.

But then someone will say 'oh, but you can make gold with luna vendors as its the best place in the game for a vendor'. So what? Do you know how much gold $2000 buys? Like 1.5 trillion. Why not just spend $500 buying 750 million gold and you'll never have to worry about vendoring again.

As the old adage goes - a fool and his money are soon parted.

I question my own mistake of paying a monthly subscription to this game.

 

[linko50]

OMG!! I MUSTA BEEN OFF MY ROCKER, I OFFERED PIXELS FOR PIXELS? HOLY CRAP, WHAT WAS I THINKING?

AND TO SOMEONE WHO CAN GET MONEY FOR EITHER!! WOW, I MUSTA BEEN STUPID!!


oh yeah, and just to edit in an earlier post without editing, I missed saying Atlantic's Luna houses, sry about that.

 

[Omnicron]

Personally anyone who spends $2000 dollars on a single item in a game is silly. I mean 2g's gets me alot irl...

 

[Lord Kotan]

What are you talking about?
I just bought 2 trammel houses for 20 million each. One 16x18 Trammel. and the other 17x18 Trammel.

Housing is dirt cheap.

Besides lots of players have great jobs and extra cash and buy what they want to play.

Whats it to you or others?

As for the economy... Dang if you can sell something for $2000 that a stimulus package for the real economy. Thank GOD for UO. It will help pull us out of a recession.

Not if the broker is from asain or another US country (guessing you are talking about the US recession). And that $2000 spent has no where the same effect as that person going out and spending it at local bussinesses

 

[Dhaerin]

theres a working dupe out now...

why would anyone accept gold when the dupers have infinite supply of it right now, they could offer 200 billion if they wanted

cash is the wisest way to pay for something like that

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

OMG!! I MUSTA BEEN OFF MY ROCKER, I OFFERED PIXELS FOR PIXELS? HOLY CRAP, WHAT WAS I THINKING?

AND TO SOMEONE WHO CAN GET MONEY FOR EITHER!! WOW, I MUSTA BEEN STUPID!!


oh yeah, and just to edit in an earlier post without editing, I missed saying Atlantic's Luna houses, sry about that.

You can't really judge the in-game economy by this. Basically, your shard has come to the collective decision to bypass the in-game economy almost entirely when it comes to this particular commodity.

-Galen's player

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Sounds like the real problem is gold farmers, brokers and people selling pixels for RL money.

No.

The REAL problem are scriptors, dupers, and exploiters. Selling for real cash is completely EXTERNAL to the game and in no way directly affects the game. The game sees ZERO difference between someone giving a house or gold to another player, or a player selling the same item(s) for out of game funds. From a game mechanics point of view they are THE SAME ACTION.

The PROBLEM is exploiting, duping and scripting. THOSE activities DO have a direct impact.

 

[Kaj]

It's not like this is anything new.

People were paying $2000 for castles 10 years ago.

RMT is a very common thing in online gaming, sometimes even a bigger market than the MMORPG itself. UO was one of the games to invent this concept.

It has pros and cons (pros being that wealth is distributed and that the game is more accessible and cons being that items are exempted from the ingame economy and that people are more tempted to cheat in order to obtain RL cash).

I think you would be even more shocked at how much USDs are being spent on WoW. It's estimated at over 100 MILLION USD per year. It's hard to get real estimates, since the market is rather hard to analyse. But it just shows that RMT is here to stay and that people are willing to spend RL cash on games. In the end gaming is a good pasttime and I've seen people enjoy a house so much that it is worth the bucks they spend on it.
People spend $30000 on Hermes bags, is $2k that crazy for something you'll most likely enjoy more?

 

[ColterDC]

...

Sounds like the real problem is gold farmers, brokers and people selling pixels for RL money.

No.

The REAL problem are scriptors, dupers, and exploiters. Selling for real cash is completely EXTERNAL to the game and in no way directly affects the game. The game sees ZERO difference between someone giving a house or gold to another player, or a player selling the same item(s) for out of game funds.

The PROBLEM is exploiting, duping and scripting. THOSE activities DO have a direct impact.

LOL.....So selling pixels for RL $$$ doesn't effect the game?

Why do people dupe, script and exploit? To make RL $$$ by selling those items for RL $$$. It obviously effects the game whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Loqucious]

I will take 1/2 your gold.

I have never had more than 32 mil at one time and I think many casual players like myself are in the same boat.

 

[Joyous2K]

I don't think people will take gold pieces because it has no actual value. US currency is still worth something, so that is a better way to go.

If this is true, it is bad bad news for that person. Who would do that? Seriously. Could you even tell anyone in the real world that you did that? That has to be a very embarrassing episode in a person's life. That guy is probably a billionaire, right guys? Any billionaire UO players out there? He probably got rich on the booming tech market.... Man that tech boom will never end. We're gonna ride that into the new millenium.

Seriously, the economy is the tank. I hope you guys don't have problems like this, or it is all becoming very clear. $2000 for nothing. He must have been a billionaire. I can count on one hand the things I have bought for 2000 dollars or more. Luckily, none of those is something that does not actually exist.

 

[ColterDC]

Same here dude. I think 30 mil was the max I ever had at one time.

I get sick of these "I got to much money because I'm a scripter or a broker or I have no life and play UO 24/7" posts.

If you're looking for a good gold sink, go throw a few hundred checks in the garbage can. Or better yet, go "cash out" all your gold into RL money, book a flight to China and go find all those gold farmers, pancake slap the hell out of them and kill their business.

 

[Kaj]

Same here dude. I think 30 mil was the max I ever had at one time.

I get sick of these "I got to much money because I'm a scripter or a broker or I have no life and play UO 24/7" posts.

If you're looking for a good gold sink, go throw a few hundred checks in the garbage can. Or better yet, go "cash out" all your gold into RL money, book a flight to China and go find all those gold farmers, pancake slap the hell out of them and kill their business.

Now I can understand your sentiment, but some of us adapt another (legitimate) way of playing the game. I think that's one of the good things in UO. Trader is just another unofficial profession in UO.
I think it's a shame you seem to think all traders are bad people. But believe me, I like the game just as much as you do. It's not all bad. I am not sure if your negativity was in any way aimed at me, but it was never my intention to brag or so .

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Regardless of WHY they dupe/script/exploit, it's the act of duping/scripting/exploiting that is the problem.

And people have been doing that since LONG before ebay even entered the UO scene. The very first patch server message I ever saw was during a dupe bug that had occurred in 1997. Ebay entering the UO picture happened quite a ways after that.

I don't deny that real money sales are a reason why people exploit, however that in NO WAY takes the blame off of exploiting itself.

Without exploiting, sales for real cash are a non-issue, except to the consistently jealous people who hate it when other people figure out how to make an idea work (i.e. succeed in life). Without exploiting, it's nothing more than an issue of ENVY.

 

[Thunderz]

...

Regardless of WHY they dupe/script/exploit, it's the act of duping/scripting/exploiting that is the problem.

And people have been doing that since LONG before ebay even entered the UO scene. The very first patch server message I ever saw was during a dupe bug that had occurred in 1997. Ebay entering the UO picture happened quite a ways after that.

I don't deny that real money sales are a reason why people exploit, however that in NO WAY takes the blame off of exploiting itself.

Without exploiting, sales for real cash are a non-issue, except to the consistently jealous people who hate it when other people figure out how to make an idea work (i.e. succeed in life). Without exploiting, it's nothing more than an issue of ENVY.

i think thats a question everyone has to ask them selves..... if you could turn pixels into $$$$ serious $$$$ 10's of 1000's of $$$ wouldnt you???? human instinct.... we ALL would if we could..... just not all of us can, because were not business minded, were dumb ass manual workers....... its only the smart asses who do......

some of us can sit a desk tomorrow and earn our company $100million and get a ice bonus for doing it.... other go out and farm for 12 hours a day at $5 so we can drink milk

 

[linko50]

YEAH!!!! Skrue the smart people!!!

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

human instinct.... we ALL would if we could..... just not all of us can, because were not business minded, were dumb ass manual workers....... its only the smart asses who do......

You're right, but what we also see of this is that human society (especially from the early 20th century forward) has conditioned a certain segment of the population to look derisively on anyone who DOES figure out how to do something to make some $$$ and get ahead and succeed at it. Instead of appluading and emulating success, these people do everything they can to punish it.

Secondarily, like you said, not everyone has a business sense and in the long run, the exploiters end up destroying their own business because they do not understand the concept of "inventory control" and thus flood the market causing prices to drop, causing the need to produce more sellable product which cuases the prices to drop which... etc etc etc. Basically, any and ALL real life money sales people should be ADAMANTLY AGAINST exploiters simply because those exploiters have harmed the legitimate businessman's ability to succeed.

 

[kentuckyjoe]

The main thing you gotta look at here is this was Lynn you were dealing with. The same Lynn that has banned people from her site for years for underselling her.

Odds are, she is just trying to bait you into offering her and insane amount of gold.

 

[Thunderz]

...

human instinct.... we ALL would if we could..... just not all of us can, because were not business minded, were dumb ass manual workers....... its only the smart asses who do......

You're right, but what we also see of this is that human society (especially from the early 20th century forward) has conditioned a certain segment of the population to look derisively on anyone who DOES figure out how to do something to make some $$$ and get ahead and succeed at it. Instead of appluading and emulating success, these people do everything they can to punish it.

Secondarily, like you said, not everyone has a business sense and in the long run, the exploiters end up destroying their own business because they do not understand the concept of "inventory control" and thus flood the market causing prices to drop, causing the need to produce more sellable product which cuases the prices to drop which... etc etc etc. Basically, any and ALL real life money sales people should be ADAMANTLY AGAINST exploiters simply because those exploiters have harmed the legitimate businessman's ability to succeed.

would you say there not MORE advanced than the average bisinessman? as they have "advanced" on the businessman"? I.E you find 100 pairs of shoes for $1 and start selling them at $2 (double ya money) i find 1000 for $1
and sell them at $1.5? you make $100 i make $500? undercutting you?

 

[ColterDC]

Please explain to me how downloading a script off a cheat site and running it 24/7 makes you so much smarter than the rest of us?

 

[linko50]

welcome to business school, the fact is, this is a game, not meant to be a burden, but to be blissfull, and when you get all into selling and buying stuff with the money you go to work to earn, you are not only hurting that economy, tempting people to go out and create more and more gold that wasnt there before, but you also hurt your family, taking things away from them, UO is not a smart investment, even the best vendor house will only pay off for a small while, while if you put that same money into the correct market in real life, you could make yourself a fortune.

you all claim to understand the market of business, but tell me this, if people got rich off of frivolous spending "such as pixels in a game" then why is it that the richest man in the world (Warren Buffett) is still living in the home he purchased several decades ago for around 130k.

People who are rich didnt get rich by stupidity, they got that way off of other peoples stupidity.

oh yeah, one last thing, over the years, EA has made alot of people attain a higher net worth.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Please explain to me how downloading a script off a cheat site and running it 24/7 makes you so much smarter than the rest of us?

To whom are you asking... and be careful with that answer as that is VERY close (if not outright) an accusation.

 

[Beerman72]

LOL.....So selling pixels for RL $$$ doesn't effect the game?

Why do people dupe, script and exploit? To make RL $$$ by selling those items for RL $$$. It obviously effects the game whether you want to admit it or not.

Dont put all teh eggs in to one bucket there bud. I have known people who script due to disability too. It would do you a world of good to try to understand that there is more than black and white in some of these matter.

 

[Beerman72]

...

Please explain to me how downloading a script off a cheat site and running it 24/7 makes you so much smarter than the rest of us?

To whom are you asking... and be careful with that answer as that is VERY close (if not outright) an accusation.

How does it make them smarter? They arent wasting thier RL time friggin doing something something a bot can do for them for one thing. Seems intelligent to me....however lets not mistake something being illegal for lacking smarts. K?

 

[Joyous2K]

How does it make them smarter? They arent wasting thier RL time friggin doing something something a bot can do for them for one thing. Seems intelligent to me....however lets not mistake something being illegal for lacking smarts. K?

Is it illegal in real life to script? Can there be any prosecution? If not, then it is smart business sense too, isn't it? Provide more product for cheaper? If its just breaking the law of EA, well, who cares about those laws? If the courts cannot get you, then it is not illegal. I would love to see a DA prosecute a case like that. How could he prove they were unattended?

 

[Mankind]

Since this thread is going to be locked, and since Lynn doesn't post here, Unless Africanus is really Lynn, and since I've used her in the past I"ll comment. I wouldn't trust Lynn as far as I can throw her, and *deleted personal attack on a non Stratics poster*...Anyway...

 

[Lord Gareth]

Well I personaly dont believe Crap Lynn says she sells stuff doe. She normaly adds a few bucks.

Anyways Ive seen Atlantic Luna homes go for cheaper.

Also Chesapeake Luna Homes only for 250mill and thats what? $125

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Is it illegal in real life to script? Can there be any prosecution?

I believe that the term "illegal" is being taken in the sense of "If you get busted you get banned", not "If you get busted you go to court and then pay or go to jail".

 

[linko50]

Thank you Dermott

 

[Joyous2K]

...

Is it illegal in real life to script? Can there be any prosecution?

I believe that the term "illegal" is being taken in the sense of "If you get busted you get banned", not "If you get busted you go to court and then pay or go to jail".

Well we're mixing apples and oranges again. THe real world uses real money and has real laws and that counts in the real world. THe fantasy world uses fantasy money and has fantasy laws and that counts in the fantasy world. Apparently there is an exchange rate for fantasy money(items) and real money. There is no exchange though as far as the laws are concerned. As scripting produces more of a desired fantasy commodity for cheaper, it is the obvious real world solution to serving the needs of the sickos. The only appeal one can make advocating an end to scripting for real money is an ethical one. Ethics and business have had an enjoyable history together. Not always bad, not always good, but somewhere in the gray area.

Since being smart was brought into it, smart business people in the real world will see that more real money can be made faster and with less effort via scripting. That is smart, that is entrepreneurship, it is providing a service. That type of scripting is driven entirely by real life economics. Entrepreneurship, risktaking and the associated traits that go along with it are there as well. People need this fantasy stuff and will pay real money to get it. THe ends justify the means. This is especially so, as the means are not illegal as for as real law is concerned.

Now EA can fix it if they want, but it may be the people who have developed this ulterior economy hold influence over the game - perhaps they have the most accounts, perhaps they provide the fantasy goods that are essentially unobtainable to the people who buy them and thereby provide an essential service for EA in keeping everyone happy. Who knows? EA can produce the goods and sell them for real money themselves. They can mask that they are the "big bad EA" and make a shell company to sell their fantasy goods for cheaper, and take the money that is theirs by right, as it is their fantasy property. They could also do this openly and offer an in game ceremony for the person who purchases the items with real money. You know have King Butterbean or whoever runs the joint hand him the Golden Silver Super Sword Artifact 19 +5 Ogre Slayer of Astonishing Reckoning. ANother thing they could do is just make the game less irritating by making these items available. Having items more readily available would also hurt scripting for real money. But, it is my contention that the Uriah Heeps (the character, not the Stratics Poster) of the world have got their hold on UO and those dudes are tough to shake loose. So they can't make items available, or sell them their selves because of the protest it would raise from the scripters for real money and from the genuine players for real money.

Doubtless, people will still script regardless of real world money making opportunities... the game begs for it and everyone knows it. SOmeday soon I will redo the calculations for how long it takes to get a suit of armor from the zoo and ask why.

 

[linko50]

so.......your saying you script?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

A few observations.

In Everquest it was very apparent that some subscribers were ... young people being raised by Everquest, Wow, UO etc via the parents(?) Credit Card. Were it was obviously worth it to the ... parent to let them learn about the world via the internet via games etc. I see no reason to believe UO would be exempt from this.

In Everquest, I posted an article from Forbes a few years back. The article was about the after market for MMORPG's specifically Everquest. In that year it was $328,000,000.00 US Dollars. This was real life currency spent OUTSIDE of Everquest. The projection for approximately now, would be in excess of $1,000,000,000.00 Annualy, World Wide for all MMORPG's. (Yes $328 Million US Dollars and $1 Billion US Dollars). These are numbers that the owners of MMORPG's can simply NOT ignore. They are HUGE when compared to the REPORTED income of the owners of these MMORPG's.

I make no inference, just an observation.

The choices in UO seemingly have made most things so Mind Numbing in their repetition that one might honestly be concerned that a part of what ever brain cells they may posses will be irrevocably damaged. The only viable means of doing these task is to do them with something that does NOT have a mind to be numbed in the first place. AKA a script.

UO management appears to preferentially choose to create scenarios that require a script to complete them. N number of companies earn N amount of Real Life Currency running these scripts.

I have an entire directory of scripts that I created and ran prior to leaving UO. Most of those would now be considered leagal, unless of course I left them to run unattended and of course if any one was around to see them run. I have little to no moral or ethical reasons to NOT run them now as it is clear UO has gone the way of being a collection of Rube Goldberg Machines of varying degrees of complexity, that beg to be solved by scripting.

All of this is clearly and obviously moot vs the total revenue stream in existence for simply buying ones way to being UBER in game.

Let it go.

Instead OSI/EAMythic take the leap, take the next step. Come now it can not be that much of a technology leap for you to take the in game UO speak/Interface, translate it to WebSpeak and allow in game transactions to the external world.

Let Domino's set up a Building (UO Style of course) with a vendor(s) and let people buy Pizza's. FTD, etc.

Put your own uogamecodes.com in game. You set a price on Gold and sell it in game. Set up ingame vendors for items as well..

Use the money to make UO better.

It is after all is said and done the way things will turn out. The marriage of the two worlds The in Game world and the Outside the World Revenue Stream.

 

[linko50]

while that may be where this is leading, I dont believe that that should occur, or atleast it should be put off as long as possible....

the reason i say this is, People join into these fantasy role playing games to escape real life, and if the games relied on real life, in that you have to have money in real life in order to prosper in the game, that would take the soul out of the people that can barely afford to pay for the game and the connection.

in other words, in a fantasy game, you want to fantasize about what you would like to be, or have been in real life. Why take that away from the people who cant afford to spend frivolously?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

while that may be where this is leading, I dont believe that that should occur, or atleast it should be put off as long as possible....

the reason i say this is, People join into these fantasy role playing games to escape real life, and if the games relied on real life, in that you have to have money in real life in order to prosper in the game, that would take the soul out of the people that can barely afford to pay for the game and the connection.

in other words, in a fantasy game, you want to fantasize about what you would like to be, or have been in real life. Why take that away from the people who cant afford to spend frivolously?

Do not mistake my perceptions for what I would like things to be.

I could not agree more with what you posted, but I also recognize this is not going to be one of those things were I get what I want.

 

[timbeOFbaja]

Do not mistake my perceptions for what I would like things to be.

I could not agree more with what you posted, but I also recognize this is not going to be one of those things were I get what I want.

Actually, it could be easily done. I have multiple ideas, the best of which, so far, I believe, is to create a duality in the economy between different currencies whereby scriptable currency and items are separated. I'll explain more later. Bottom line is that it's doable....just takes some creative thought.