A Discussion About The Meaning Of Being An Ultima Veteran

[Captn Norrington]

Lately I have noticed there have been quite a few new players on Atlantic that look like they will stay for more than a few weeks, and overheard a group of them talking at west brit bank. They were talking about how hard it is to be new in the game and that they have the feeling that even if they played it for multiple years they would still be considered "new" in the eyes of the community since many of us have been here 10+ years.

This got me thinking about the title of veteran many of us have gotten used to using. Before malas existed a person was considered a veteran if they had played before trammel was made, after tokuno was created a veteran was considered someone who played near the beginning of malas or earlier.

How many years would a person need to play to become a veteran?
does it still count if they have played for a long time but only log in once a month?
If they have only played a short time but are exceptionally good at the game are they still considered a noob?

Basically, my question is when would you stop considering a new player a noob and start considering them a veteran player?

 

[Lord Nabin]

This is one of the best questions of the year. I am on the road this weekend and look forward to reading your answers.

Personally, I will respond to this with a thoughtful answer on Sunday at the end of my travels

 

[Vexxed]

Basically, my question is when would you stop considering a new player a noob and start considering them a veteran player?

I consider someone a veteran when they have mastered all aspects of the game to the degree that a lot of so called veterans have... For some this is months and for others time simply isn't enough to do it for them. Queen mum is never going to be a PvP vet no matter how long she plays heh.....Cookie Queen sure......

 

[Lady Storm]

Funny you should ask..........
Had a guy tell another he was a vet because he came in before High Seas...
Many think being a vet is over 12 months old in the game...
Does that make me a Anchient??

 

[Zerbee]

I consider someone a veteran when they have mastered all aspects of the game to the degree that a lot of so called veterans have... For some this is months and for others time simply isn't enough to do it for them. Queen mum is never going to be a PvP vet no matter how long she plays heh.....Cookie Queen sure......

I agree with this.
But I also believe that there is no point to claiming to be a a vet. Just because someone may have been playing for years upon years doesn't make them anymore more special than any other player. I've met some players who think so highly of themselves just because they have been playing for longer. It's a game, people shouldn't get some sort of ego trip/elitism from playing longer.

 

[Leather Lucy]

My account was created in 1999, I'd never consider myself a Vet though, I'm far too noobish a player. Never smacked anything harder than a Balron I don't think heh.

I know it's not about how tough the mobs are that you fight, just pointing out I've barely seen any of what this game has to offer really. Bet the real noobs are having a blast .

 

[FrejaSP]

I'm not sure it is the title that is a problem. It's more, that an vet do own so much in game, that it are hard for a new player. I can see, when a vet player choose to play Siege, he get the same problems as a new player. They need their dyes, their e-mount, their community box, their crystal and corrupted portal, Seed Box, Davies' locker and a lot other rewards. Sure they should not just be handled to them but maybe it's about time to look at the rewards. Some may need to be on EA Store in a recharge version like the house teleportations tiles

 

[Silentfury]

I've never apply the title Veteran to myself in regards to Ultima Online. I've been in game since The Lost Lands were added. And to this day I still learn something new every now and again.
I simply refer to myself as being in game 12 years. (missed 3 years to an EverQuest vacation)

 

[FrejaSP]

I would love to see more new players make it here. I'm proud of all my years here but it do not make me better than any new player. I have seen new players make it as respected part of the community in short time.

 

[Flagg]

So many ways to define it, like others have pointed out. I guess ultimately everybody gets to measure his/her own weight on such scale. Everybody also gets to define which bits hold weight and get measured, which won't. Subjective stuff.


I guess I have two measurements myself;
More than three years of fairly active gameplay on relatively short timeline is what I guess I consider a vet! ie, 3 years of gameplay in..say, 6 years is vet! 3 years in 15 years is not! Latter I consider too little time get properly " inside" the game during any particular moment of UO's evolution.

Alternatively,
Could you either entertain or bore a crowd with 15 min+ monologue that starts " Ye sees, during the good old days..." If so, grats! Also a vet!;p

 

[Tazar]

To me:

It has nothing to do with account age... too many have bought those.
It has nothing to do with the quantity/quality of stuff that you have... again - too much of that was bought.
It has nothing to do with how long you've played... There are some who seem eternally young.
It has nothing to do with your chosen playstyle: PVP, PVM, PVE, other.


To me it has everything to do with your knowledge of the game - and your sharing of that knowledge. Hang around the right people a little while and most new players will be veterans fairly quickly.

 

[Endrik]

Non-PvP = Vet after 1 year
*You start getting vet rewards at 12 months

PvP = Never
*If you die 1v1, they call you a noob
*If you win 1v1, you a noob because you are using a gimp template
*If you play in a group and die, still a noob because you could not survive even with help
*If you play in a group and win, noob because you ganked
*If you play alone against a group and win, you get called a noob because you must be speedhacking

 

[Smoot]

All im gonna say, is you can be a veteran and still be a noob.

 

[THP]

While i would love to see a influx of new players that actually stay longer than 30 free days....EA/Broadsword seem to be firmly developing the game to simply keep the player base happy that are so called vets....that are sticking around because they have invested 10 - 15 years into UO .... rather than encourage new players to come play and stay....ie the game is getting more and more complex with every publish...please stop.

 

[THP]

and pvp is based mainly on ''ping speed''....u've either got a fast connection or a slow one that sucks....In this case i'am guessing those with fast pings will call themselves'' vets''....while the players with slow pings will be dubbed ''noobs''.....u go figure...

 

[MalagAste]

I don't know. I rather define it as having knowledge of the game. Not necessarily being the "Best" at everything but knowing stuff.

I consider a lot of folk newbs if they don't know the lay of the land. Most folk who have been around a long time know where things are. Those who are more recent never had to travel the land. they have no idea how to get to Compassion shrine from Britain. They don't know where to find one of the ant holes. They couldn't direct you to the mage shop in most towns without opening up maps.

Many have no idea where the dungeons are. They have plenty of runes to anything they want but if you stole all their runebooks they couldn't go home. To me a true Vet could walk you anywhere you wanted to go. They could tell you how to work any skill in the game quickly and efficiently. They could tell you the best places to level a skill all the way to 120 on any shard. They can also tell you where a good rune library could be found. Where the best vendors are.

To me that is a Vet. It's not about having all the stuff... not about having the best of every skill or the latest gimpplate.... it's about knowledge of the game.

And the greatest of Vets can tell you the history of their shard. Who was who back in the day. What meaning most of the "unique" decor has.... and how it got there. Be it EM, Seer, Mesanna, or whoever. They are historians of the shard. They know all the secret locations because they were there. IF they are willing to share that information.

 

[MalagAste]

and pvp is based mainly on ''ping speed''....u've either got a fast connection or a slow one that sucks....In this case i'am guessing those with fast pings will call themselves'' vets''....while the players with slow pings will be dubbed ''noobs''.....u go figure...

I agree. PvP has always been about that. There is no field leveler more than connection speed. There is always someone with a better connection.

 

[Lady CaT]

If you have to tell people you are a veteran, you probably are not.

 

[Aran]

Well you know the old driving axiom of "Anyone driving slower than me is a jerk, and anyone faster than me is an idiot?" It's kind of like that with player status. Anyone who's played less time than me is a newbie, anyone who's played longer needs to go outside.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I have never described myself as a veteran. If I'm asked I admit to having been around a while and offer to answer their questions if I can.

While my game play ability isn't all that great my game knowledge is, I believe, fairly extensive.

 

[Smoot]

Its definitely not knowledge of the game. about half the "vets" have absolutely no idea about anything in UO from the last 2-4 years.

(including myself, i know all state of the art armor mods but high seas and that under the sea thing is still foreign to me)

 

[Warpig Inc]

We did have a system that sorted out the players. A simple method of sorting out the account ages by what kind of eath mount you could ride. If the guy riding the polar bear acted like an ass to you as a new player. Then they bought the aged account and that character and their guild tag went on a s%!t list. Removing the age restriction on eath riding had just as much merrit in removing the drinking age becuase someone has $5 and lips. Hey you can drive if you can reach the pedals.

If you can remember the effect the first release of the polarbear eath had on the game ...................... you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember when a demon or a lich lord could hand you your ass no matter how you were geared ..................... you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember having a container on the doorstep of your 7x7 or boat with GM armor sets .......................... you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember selling horses,ossi and llamma at WBB was a good way to earn gold ................................... you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember having to wait for someone else to loose connection before you can log back in ........................................ you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember trusting some guy at the Hammer & Anvil more then some family members ..................... you might be a UO veteran.

If you can remember a time when looting meant only having to look at the item title line ............................ you might be a UO veteran.




I could go on or someone could paste and stick theese and add their own. Then start a version of "You might be a rXXXXXXXk UO veteran" on UO veteran memories in a new thread


Hey, I will let the whole eath age restriction slide under one condition. Come up with a series of static house designs for the large tower, keep and castle. Design choices restricted to the age of the account.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Its definitely not knowledge of the game. about half the "vets" have absolutely no idea about anything in UO from the last 2-4 years.

I don't know how to download or use new apps for a smartphone or care too. I miss my flippy. Doesn't make my life any less and I'm sure as hell not depressed over it. Id do remember a time of not having a phone and all the short leashes that I didn't have to deal with. Sadly better times that are not experienced, means not appreciating what we have now. I do still enjoy UO today even if I have to be spoiled.

 

[Smoot]

A UO veteran is someone who has quit the game, at least twice, for a period of over a year. Until then, a player is a noob.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Only in UO can over a year without make you a virgin again.

I think "Quitter" is a title that never goes away. I quit smoking. But I still smoke.

 

[Uvtha]

Lately I have noticed there have been quite a few new players on Atlantic that look like they will stay for more than a few weeks, and overheard a group of them talking at west brit bank. They were talking about how hard it is to be new in the game and that they have the feeling that even if they played it for multiple years they would still be considered "new" in the eyes of the community since many of us have been here 10+ years.

This got me thinking about the title of veteran many of us have gotten used to using. Before malas existed a person was considered a veteran if they had played before trammel was made, after tokuno was created a veteran was considered someone who played near the beginning of malas or earlier.

How many years would a person need to play to become a veteran?
does it still count if they have played for a long time but only log in once a month?
If they have only played a short time but are exceptionally good at the game are they still considered a noob?

Basically, my question is when would you stop considering a new player a noob and start considering them a veteran player?

Honestly I think (like many others) it's a generally pointless appellation, and a pretty silly one for any good community to judge its members by.

If someone is cool, then they are cool. They don't need to "earn" status. I hate such artificial social barriers, especially in games.

 

[Naxatilor Feluka]

I would consider a vet to be relative to knowledge. That being said, the tools for learning have come a long way. In 1999 a 3 year vet had a tremendous advantage on any new player, however with tools like uoguide.com amongst countless others in more recent times I think the knowledge gap is significantly easier to overcome in less time.

 

[Spiritless]

They were talking about how hard it is to be new in the game and that they have the feeling that even if they played it for multiple years they would still be considered "new" in the eyes of the community since many of us have been here 10+ years.

While it's probably true, being considered new by the community is probably the least of their problems in reality and consequently the least worthy point of discussion.

The real discussion point here that their conversation highlights is the huge gulf that exists between new players and veterans caused by the steep learning curve of UO's various systems (including armor which is borderline ridiculous) and disparity of wealth and gear options partly caused by said learning curve.

It's really hard to attract and, perhaps more importantly, retain new players because the new player experience sucks and truly does last years until they start becoming familiar with how things work and getting some gear that is capable of helping them amass wealth. That is compared with more modern games which go out of their way to ease players into things.

Blizzard recognized the importance of the new player experience in WoW when they realized that ~70% of trial players quit before they even reached level 10. I'd imagine a similar figure, if not higher, exists in UO for trialists and new player accounts. Unfortunately nothing meaningful was ever really done to address this and attempts to address it (New Haven) were insufficient or just too late.

 

[azmodanb]

My original account is dated 11/97.. still own it. and since i have the secret word.. and matching aos sandals and half apron with the same name im vet. ..

Actually vet to me is anyone over a year... hard to come by these days.

Us over those years are just people that never grew up.

97.. 17 years.. means i was.... 13-14 when I logged in... yeah..... long time to be addicted. ha.

but I agree with vet to me means someone who helps... knows locations of overland spawn and does not need a runebook. someone who knows about how to gain skills.. someone who struggled to place their first tower. (mine was in moonglow) someone that knows when pvp faction fights would last days... when they played on 14.4 modems... if they could stay connected... i could keep going.

now as i said before vets are people that like this game and stay for year or more imo.

old geezers .. and forever young geeks well thats me and everyone who posts on stratics ....

lol

 

[Warpig Inc]

A party in 1999 a player could be competitive with some GM gear.

Today all the reading knowledge is not going to kill more then a lich without a few 100 million gold worth of gear and a handfull of PS. Goodluck surviving a few minutes let alone getting looting rights on exodus or scaring the Lords of fel yew gate with some light Imbueing GM gear. Still takes a few PS to tame a GD and have fun living more then a fire breath span in GM gear. Buy a GD at New Mag and "Party on Dude"

 

[Hannes Erich]

On its surface, the title or moniker of Veteran is fine. It only breaks down and starts to become suspect under scrutiny, as the outcome of this thread would suggest.

Describing oneself as a veteran of the game can be fine, depending on the context. People do this without ego all the time. Oftentimes, it's meant as more of a compliment toward the worthwhile value of the game. MMORPG players have hundreds of choices these days. The number of veterans in a game is an indicator of its worth to new players. Don't be shy to wear your veteran status with pride if it's not just for your ego, but for your game and your friends. If you have to come up with some other way to say it in order to appease your modesty, such as Petra Fyde above, that's fine too.

As a general term it can mean many things to many people. It's a lot like asking, "What's the meaning of life?" It's a question that has no answer until people with opinions start showing up, after which you will have many different answers. This isn't a good conversation for people whose personalities require one definitive, objective answer to any question.

Personally? I don't think there are only veterans and newbies. I don't even think there are degrees of veteran-ness. Reasonably, there are veterans and older veterans, and even older veterans, and so on. My account was opened in November, 1997. I played heavily until 2003 or so (not a bad run), when Earth and Beyond became my second home. When EA closed it after only two years, I didn't touch anything they published for a few years, but eventually I came back for UO. I explored other games like Eve Online and multiplayer communities like for Dawn of War. In 2009, City of Heroes became my home until it shut down. During all this time, I have come and gone from UO. It's no-longer the immersive escape that it used to be, but it's the best old-school dungeon crawler on Earth, and still one of the best overall RPGs around if you ask me.

If someone says to me that they're a one-year veteran, I don't immediately whip out my seventeen-year veteran status and slap them in the face with it. I'm a 37 year-old grownup, for Pete's sake. If it comes up, it comes up, but I'm probably going to be way more excited about getting to meet a one-year veteran in this seventeen year-old game. That's pretty darn cool if you ask me, says a lot about UO.

 

[Darius Bloodbain]

I consider someone a Vet if i do not see a tag that says "young" after their name
On a more non joking response, I would say I would have to agree with Tazar's earlier post.
I also consider someone a Vet player if they are able to get around on their own in game, and
have at least a couple of developed characters and have successfully acquired a house.

 

[Smoot]

A Veteran is someone who plays on a freeshard because its more like the original UO. All of us playing modern osi are eternal noobs :/

 

[Smoot]

A Veteran is someone who has become bored enough with the game to post on stratics.

 

[Acid Rain]

"Veteran" - Arbitrary terminology entirely dependent on an individuals preconceived notions.

I would agree with Tazar and just add that not only is it knowledge of the game and sharing that knowledge with others, but also (weighted heavily imho) helping others to enjoy the free time they have by enhancing their gaming experience in a positive way.

My friends rarely call me a veteran. However the expression, "your older then dirt" is often heard.
When I started UO all we had to eat was dirt..... and we LIKED IT !
(28.8 modem and daily time warps/server downs).

UO

 

[Viper09]

I would say a vet is someone who just has considerable knowledge about different aspects of the game through personal experience. Maybe not master all aspects since there are a ton of different playstyles, but enough to inform new players to help integrate them into the game.

 

[Hannes Erich]

(28.8 modem and daily time warps/server downs).

Sorry to rub your face in the dirt, but when I started, my household wasn't tied down by such primitive technology.

That's right, sucker. We had... a 33.6k modem.

 

[Lady Storm]

As someone who use to work in fortran... I can honestly say we all are too hung up on what is and not on why.
A vet of UO is one player who has served their fellow player in the form of mentor, teacher, companion, sage, and friend.
Petra ... you nearly had me choking on my drink!
Fairly my Aunt Fanny!
Woman take the credit you have so righly deserved.
Yes I agree much of what most think of a "vet" is purchaseable.
Lets face it money talks.
The addage of teach a man to fish rather then handing him a fish dinner... fits.
We teach how to fish, how to hunt, what is good , how to keep nose clean, and this is not just one player who does this.
Each time you interact with a new player you give off a part of how you play UO.
What they take from it is how they grow in ways only time can determine.
Handing a new player 100k, a full LRC suit, or Weapon pointing them to a local dungeon is not being a vet...
Your not teaching them anything.
In the long run they get the idea money grows on trees ... and that everyone has tons to give them and its not work.
Only thing is when they do have to go out and work..... they find it was not as easy as you made it.
They ether go looking for mr goodbar and a handout or quit.
Its fine to give then gold dont get me wrong but first teach them how that gold was made.
Hunt, mine, fish, or do what ever it is they plan to become and show them how its done...
Let them die a few times... it will build character.
Teach them how to live and why to be kind to all they players they see.
The True VET of UO is the players who is willing toTEACH how to do it.
Its not to be a sugar mamma/daddy.

 

[Promathia]

I would say a vet is someone who just has considerable knowledge about different aspects of the game through personal experience. Maybe not master all aspects since there are a ton of different playstyles, but enough to inform new players to help integrate them into the game.

I agree 100%.

"Veteran" in MMO standards for me, is someone who knows the game well. I don't care how long you have played, if you still don't get basic game mechanics, you are a noob.

 

[Longtooths]

...... when would you stop considering a new player a noob and start considering them a veteran player?

I try not to judge anyone pre-knowing them. I also don't feel the need to label people so they fit into neat little categories. I choose instead to try and get to know everyone I meet and base my opinion of them on our interactions and the way they treat others.

Call me crazy.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Having thought about this a bit and read the responses, I have thought through my years of Playing Ultima. Started in 1971 with the launch of Ultima and have been playing ever since.

I would say that the moment of becoming a veteran is the first time you show someone how to do something in game that they themselves do not know how to do.

I still am learning new pieces of the game all the time and there will never be time to master everything.

That moment you help someone else, you are the Veteran passing on your knowledge and understanding.

It is what builds community

*Tips a Glass of Good Old Moonglow Red in salute and settles back down in his chair by the fire*

*Stoke Stoke*

 

[G.v.P]

Prior to "Veteran Rewards," MyUO defined "Veteran" as a character with 700 skill, and you would receive the pyramid with the eye thing on your MyUO character profile. Since new players have no concept of MyUO I guess it's a moot point, but when I started, getting all my characters finished, so I would earn "Veteran," was my immediate goal (aside from affording the means to a house!).

As far as Veteran Rewards go, they started as overpowered horses and special-modded robes, and are both now since devalued to the point horses are a hindrance given dismount and the robes and cloaks thereafter seldom worn since physical is so much easier, now, to fill for mages. Veteran, now, is defined by house add-ons, but owning a house is not so much a challenge as is owning a castle, or an old foundation home such as a keep, or tower. Yet, honestly, status aside, I would much rather have something I could customize (pre-fab castle design dangles from Mesanna be damned ;P...but I am but a lowly keep owner, anyhow).

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I would say that the moment of becoming a veteran is the first time you show someone how to do something in game that they themselves do not know how to do.*

I like that. I guess that's why I hang out in the help channel
But actually, I think of veteran as somebody who has been playing before trammel was created, which does not include me.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Since I started with the beta and have quit and come back several times, I feel secure in saying I'm a veteran newb.

 

[old gypsy]

Everyone will probably have a different definition. Personally, I think anyone who loves the game enough to stick around, or to return (some of them time and time again because they can't stay away) is a qualified "veteran".

Heck, I'll even go as far as saying that some of our former players who still keep tabs on UO through Stratics are "vets" too.

 

[MalagAste]

Everyone will probably have a different definition. Personally, I think anyone who loves the game enough to stick around, or to return (some of them time and time again because they can't stay away) is a qualified "veteran".

Heck, I'll even go as far as saying that some of our former players who still keep tabs on UO through Stratics are "vets" too.

You are right we all have a definition and they are all vastly differing. Most I've ever been able to "quit" UO for was 2 weeks I believe. I've been gone for longer but not by choice. Mostly because I didn't have internet. I talk about leaving every now and then but fact of the matter is I have a lot invested in UO. 14 years is a long investment to just throw away... everytime I've ever thought of going to another game my first questions are:

Do they have Role-play? Because I play to escape who and what I am.... if I can't role-play and immerse myself in the game then I don't want to play it.
Do they have custom housing? If not I don't want to play. I hate games where you can't express yourself and to me I really can't immerse myself in a game where I'm living from a box or room no one but me can see, visit or interact with.
What races can I play? I know that when UO first started there was one "human" race but everyone who's anyone knew there were Orcs, Drow, Elves, and yes even Dwarves. They were everywhere. Hordes of Urks patrolled the lands demanding "shinnies" from passers-by... Again it's about immersion.
Is it a level game? Where I can tell at a glance everything I need to about someone... what race they are, what profession they are and yes what level they are... just by looking. I HATE games that force you to dress how they want you to. This level this skill that suit... blah......zero imagination.
Pets and mounts?
And finally..... Am I limited to one character or can I have multiples? Because I like to have wondrous variety. If you play a game with less than all that.... You are only playing part of a game.

 

[Scribbles]

To me the word "veteran" will always be a reference to someone that has "served"

Whether it is helping a new player find a house or showing an old dog a new trick, at least in that moment you are a veteran.

 

[whiterabbit]

I am an old noob. account 1998, left for about 3 yrs came back. I still dunno were 1/2 the stuff is. If it wasn't for guildies and friends, I would not do a lot of things. My knowledge is very low.I forget easy,
Ozog is not a noob, but he can pees anywere, so don't need to know much. Girkle to all those who take of me.
Oh and I get lost very easy. I wont make spread sheets, or write stuff down, its a game not werk.

 

[morPR]

Ugh. I started playing UO back when Renaissance was first released. I consider myself an uber-noob because so many things have happened in-game and I always have the same small routine in-game. I hang around the cities of Luna & New Haven. Not sure why. I don't much do dungeons any more since the changes. I have spent me coin hazardously and don't have the clout players with equal experience I have.

I mourn red stat loss. It used to be you would go to Bucc's Den and loiter about til someone attacked a red. Or the thieves stole from you. Reds didn't want to get more counts for killing blues as that was detrimental to their skills. Dying was so unpleasant. Nowadays you go to Fel and can't find anyone except at Yew Moongate. That's because they're hiding in houses.

 

[Gidge]

To me a noob is anyone who constantly asks questions and is too lazy to find out information on their own. I am a wealth of useless UO stuff and gladly answer quite happily anything. But after the 100th question like.... What tool do I use to make arrows? Just makes me want to tape a sign to their back. A Newbie is a new character. You can become a Veteran in any game by taking in knowledge. It doesn't have squat to do with age.