A Call To Felucca - PvP Event Discussion.

[EM_Tailspin]

Greetings!

Since coming to Pacific I've been trying to get myself up to speed with the players and I couldn't help notice that about half the population is PvP orientated in one way or the other. This is a very good thing as I really enjoy Felucca events. It's no secret they can be tougher on us EMs, but I think that's why I like them.

I'd like to start laying some plans for events with the PvP community, and those interested in getting in to the PvP scene. I could just role out some last man standing events, or maybe a capture the flag type deal, but I seriously want to do better than that. I want our PvP events to be challenging and fun. So I'd like to open a discussion to be sure I am on the right track with event design. I've got a lot of ideas I would like to try, but I need to get to know you more before choosing the best ones for Pacific. I'm sure a lot of you will have event suggestions for me too.

We have two channels of communication, in-game meetings and these forums, so lets make use of both.

I'll be on this thread regularly so feel free to post here. You can also send me private messages by clicking my name on the left of this post. I can usually get back to you within a day or two.

For the in-game meeting, I am free this Friday night at 7:00pm PST. Lets gather at the Britain EM hall in Felucca. I know not everyone will be able to make it, so please participate in the discussion on this thread. Any topics raised here will be raised in the in-game meet.
Just to confirm that..
In Game Meet : Friday June 11th 7:00pm PST - EM Hall, Britain, Felucca.

The goal of these first discussions will be to gather ideas and input from you guys so I can use this in designing events. Also I'd like to get a clearer picture of PvP community. Which guilds/players are currently active? How big they are? Who is allied with who? Who hates who and how bad? Is the server PvP more duel based than team fights, or are both strong? Are you interested in competitive events, RP-PvP, PvP+E, or something else? These kinds of things.

I'll also be throwing around few event concept ideas for everyone to have a think over and comment on.

I have a few requests as we get started.

I want to get you guys involved in this as much as possible to give myself the best chance of creating events you will like. So a lot of this is going to be resting on your shoulders. We will always be playing in your world, and your world is what you make it. For me being an EM means creating ways to make the game more entertaining, and I kinda like that role. It's what I've been doing in one form or another years before I signed on officially. And I also know you can't entertain anyone if you don't know what they like. So I'm asking for your help and guidance in this endeavor. Flying blind sounds fun, but smashing in to mountains... not so much.

The other thing I wanted to request is for people to pass the word around. I understand not everyone is interested in events, and that's cool. I just want to be sure I am reaching everyone who is. I can really only post on two forums and only a very small percentage of players actually come here anyways. You guys are way more connected than I could ever be with the PvP crowd on our shard. So it would be really helpful if you could get the word about. Tell your guilds, your allies, and particularly your enemies. After all, it's hard to own someone who is not there.

So post away and PM me. Tell me what you would like to see happen, or just come to introduce yourself so I know you're here.

EM Tailspin

 

[EM_Tailspin]

Heya All!

The meeting on Friday went well. Thank you to everyone who came out.

Please note that this is an open player discussion and all opinions expressed are in no way connected the game designers.

A number of topics were discussed. I'll post them here and the general decisions that were reached.
These topics are still open for debate. Please post here if you want to further the discussion. Nothing is set in stone yet.

The three event types talked about were:

1. Solo player PvP events
The only workable idea we had here was tournament style events. Due to player cooperation, "All-in" event styles tend to end up as team based events. As tournaments are something we have done before, and will do again, we focused on the two team style events.

2. Small Team Events (2-5 players per team)
Everyone seemed to like an idea put forward called "Blood League". It is a short league table style event, with players competing in teams of three. All teams compete in a round robin and score points for victories in each match. The points then count towards their position on the league table. The event may stretch over several days depending on the number of teams involved.
The matches would not be simple 3v3. We are hoping to create between six and ten different themed matches. Each theme adds a unique factor to the match, or uses specific victory conditions. The particular theme used for each match will be decided at random a few minutes before the match begins. To give an idea of the themes we are working on here are a few of the match titles: Snake Pit, Orcish Bar Brawl, Twin Treasures, Best Of Three, Protector.
In order to make each match theme as balanced as possible we are planning to run an open testing event where players can come along to help us test each theme and provide feedback/suggestions. There will be an announcement on this testing event in the next day or two.

3. Large Team Events (5+ players per team)
The most popular idea in this category was a two team idea where we had one side attacking a castle and the other team defending. A similar event was run by EM Seppo on Baja last year.
We've contacted EM Seppo and graciously gave us a rundown on this event. We are now working on a version for Pacific players. This may be a very good chance to get Trammel and Felucca players on the field together. More information on this one soon.

Special Rules
We talked a bit about special rules that may be needed to prevent PvP events becoming all about one class or tactic. This might become a very hot topic and personally I prefer having as few rules as possible. Here are two that were talked about specifically. As mentioned above, everything is still under discussion, so please post if you have opinions.

- No Pets.
Everyone seemed pretty unanimous about this one. Mounts were not discussed at the time.

- No Mysticism.
There was some debate about this and we decided to not to use this rule unless it became a problem in practice. So there are no restrictions planned for this atm.

Again thank you to everyone who came out.

Please continue the discussion on this thread if you have input, and watch for that testing event coming soon. We really need some help with that one.

EM Tailspin

 

[Balian of Asgard]

How about a PVP ladder. Just like King of the hill

A PVP ladder works on the concept that when you win a match you go up the ladder and when you loose a match you go down the ladder. In this way you’ll find the level of players you shoulld be playing against. The most skilled players area at the top and the less skilled are at the bottom.

The challenge process is very simple and consists of the following three steps:

Making the challenge

A player will challenge another player above them on the ladder by clicking on the challenge icon beside that player's name. No more than 3 ranking above the challengers position. eg. If challenger is 19th on the list, he can only challenge 18-17-16

They will then be given the option of sending a message to the player. Whether or not they do, the player will receive an email informing them that they have been challenged. Or posted to a community board

Both players will then be in a challenge and can not be challenged themselves until the challenge has been completed.


Accepting the challenge

Once a player has been challenged, they must accept the challenge within 72 hours. Only once a challenge has been accepted can the results be entered.


Entering the results

Once the players have organised and dueled, either player may report the results by posting to stratics.

Once the results have been entered, if the challenger has won, they will be moved above their opponent on the ladder.

Cancelling challenges

At any point during the challenge process, the challenger may cancel the challenge. Neither player will move on the ladder, and both will be free to challenge or be challenged.

The challenged player can never cancel challenges.

Forfeiting challenges

At any point during the challenge process, the challenged player may forfeit the challenge. The result will be recorded as a forfeit and the challenger will move above them on the ladder.

Automatic forfeits

If the results for the match have not been reported to stratics within 96 hours of the challenge, the challenge will be automatically forfeit and the challenger will move above their opponent on the ladder.

Thus it is in the challenged player's interest to organise and arrange the game in order to keep their place on the ladder.

Automatic forfeits are necessary, not just to stop players avoiding challenges, but also to keep the ladder moving - if two players are locked in a challenge for many months, it is harder for players below them to make challenges.

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

Tailspin, I really like the small team events. A good twist for every round sounds like great fun. =]

 

[EM_Tailspin]

How about a PVP ladder. Just like King of the hill.....

This sounds like a fantastic idea, especially if we could automate it.

It doesn't sound like an incredibly difficult process. A few dynamic web pages and a simple web-app should do the trick. It would remove the need for the forum middle-man when reporting results etc.

I'm pretty sure my rusty old programming skills will be able to handle it. It probably won't be very pretty though, heheh.

It is something I would need to clear with Mythic first. I best do that soon, while it's still in concept form so as to not waste anyone's time. I can't really give you an estimate on the chances of it passing. This is beyond my control, but I can give it a shot. If it doesn't pass, then all I can do is assure you the reasons would be very solid, even though I may not be able to tell you them.

As for a time frame if it does pass. I do have more time for EM stuff coming up over the next few months, but I also have a number of other projects on the burner. I think this is something I can fit in, it just won't be lightening fast.

So first thing is to see if it is possible. I'll get on it this week.

Any other players have ideas on this one?
It's quite interesting.

EM Tailspin

 

[SUPRsalad]

Old idea that I have brought up several times:

PIRATE WARS!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!


(no seriously, think about it)

 

[Always a Ghost]

Pirate wars would be intersting LOL.

Another idea would be to have a fel based scavenger hunt, with all items being placed inside dungeons, with that being said also have a limited number of items available. This way PvP is forced onto the participants ohh yes and make the items un-insurable so you can die and get looted. And make the rewards something cool so maybe we can get some of the trammies to take part as well.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

how about we just clear out one of the bigger dungeon's like shame or khaldun maybe even clear out titan island and make a ffa make everyone fight everyoen and the person with the most kills after 1 hour gets his name on a trophy
pretty easy i think...

also lets mix something else up to give everyone a chance even the non pvpers,

Disregard factions no faction players can compete, we have a un fair advantage as it is

 

[EM_Tailspin]

Old idea that I have brought up several times:
PIRATE WARS!

I do have a pirate event plan I was working on a few years back, but never finished. It was originally for Trammel, but there is no reason it couldn't be done in Felucca. It would probably give the whole thing a shot of adrenaline. I'll dust it off and see if I can slip it in somewhere. It's only a one session deal.

Another idea would be to have a fel based scavenger hunt...

Scavenger hunts are on the drawing board . There is a smaller one we are looking at for one of the Blood League bout themes. I like your idea of doing a larger version too, in a specific dungeon. That would fit in well with a shard wide festival day.

how about we just clear out one of the bigger dungeon's like shame or khaldun maybe even clear out titan island and make a ffa make everyone fight everyoen and the person with the most kills after 1 hour gets his name on a trophy...

I've tried the All-In fights, and they are a lot of fun. But they always turn in to team fights within moments. Old allies and enemies are hard to forget. So I figured if we are going to fight in teams, we might as well gear things for teams. For solo stuff we can always use the tournaments.
I completely agree with what you said about making space for non-PvP players to come in and not feel too intimidated. I think that's going to depend heavily on the atmosphere at these events. This was one of the things we talked about at the Friday meet, but I forgot to post...

Everyone knows Felucca events can be chaotic. This is one of the major things that keeps Trammel based players away, and makes many EMs hesitant to try. But I don't think it has to be that way.

I've always said, Felucca belongs to the players. And I feel EMs should respect that and not try to police events too much, or stop brawls when they break out. There are lots of PvP event ideas I really want to try with you guys, but I will need your help. I do have some last resort lines for TOS violations, but even that means stopping the event for ten, twenty minutes.

So I feel the best way is to ask for your support in keeping events on track. I'll always do my best to design things well, and keep the opportunities for trouble to minimum. But when it does go south a little support from players can be like magic bullet in get things back on track. I guess in Felucca, successful events rely on a players and EMs working together to keep things rolling.

EM Tailspin

 

[Balian of Asgard]

This sounds like a fantastic idea, especially if we could automate it.

It doesn't sound like an incredibly difficult process. A few dynamic web pages and a simple web-app should do the trick. It would remove the need for the forum middle-man when reporting results etc.
woot, sounds good already, a 24/7 bulletin board/webpage
I'm pretty sure my rusty old programming skills will be able to handle it. It probably won't be very pretty though, heheh.

It is something I would need to clear with Mythic first. I best do that soon, while it's still in concept form so as to not waste anyone's time. I can't really give you an estimate on the chances of it passing. This is beyond my control, but I can give it a shot. If it doesn't pass, then all I can do is assure you the reasons would be very solid, even though I may not be able to tell you them.

As for a time frame if it does pass. I do have more time for EM stuff coming up over the next few months, but I also have a number of other projects on the burner. I think this is something I can fit in, it just won't be lightening fast.

So first thing is to see if it is possible. I'll get on it this week.

Any other players have ideas on this one?
It's quite interesting.

EM Tailspin

i see it as a great way for trammel people to come in to fel and start from the bottom in a non threatening way, the bottom tier would be bad pvpers and nubswhile the top tier would be all the greats and up and comersgiving people something to aim for

 

[EM_Tailspin]

Just a quick update.

Mesanna has given me the green light on the PvP ladder project. So I'll get to creating this on the web as soon as time allows.

Now would be a good time for suggestions and tweaks on system outlined by Balian above.

EM Tailspin

 

[Smoot]

Just wanted to say this sounds like a great idea, wish something like it was on Atlantic. That being said, i would just Hate to see a known speed hacker or other people who use third party programs win. Maybe this would be a good time for an EM to actually see these people in action tho. Its one of the reasons i dont pvp nearly as much as i used to. I know theres no real way to address this, dont know if the proposed third party blocker has gone into effect, but i just thought someone had to bring up the dirt that is so prevalent in the pvp scene.