55 LMC with Virtuoso suit + 120 Focus/MysticBard

[Loren]

I was thinking of build in title. I understand I need real skill for masteries. I read someones idea on 6x120 Mystic Bard, with 120 Music/Disco/Provo/Peace + 120 Focus/Mysticism. (55 LMC). Scrolls are plentiful for those too. What I do not know, is how much MR I need to be functionally capable dungeoning with Bard in my template. 95% of my caster experience is with Tmapping, which is a different set of needs than dungeons.

It looks like only 1 piece of the armor is non-medable. So max I could get would be +9 from 3 pieces for 49 LMC. How difficult is it to make the Virtuoso suit work for the Mystic/Bard build? I wanted to ask here before I burn my clean-up points for it.

If the masteries help with Taming, then it is something I want to do anyway, just perhaps not with Mysticism. For instance, I already have real 120 Magery skill, and soulstones.....

-Loren

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I heard the virtuoso suit is fairly useless so I wouldn't even bother with that.

The problem with the build is that you have no melee defence and will get hit 100% of the time. I would forget Peace (which is fairly redundant at the best of times, but even more so on a Mystic) and have Magery just for having a Mage Weapon, along with the countless other benefits.

 

[Loren]

Praise the Lord

 

[Tuan]

I think the virtuoso suit is somewhat of a waste as well. At first look, that idea of "activate bard mastery x2" seems like it could be awesome, like you can run 2x masteries at once for a short time or something(combo of peace and provo masteries might be temporary GodMode), or they're twice as effective (60% damage reduction from peace mastery - where do I sign up?), or that it would make your skill somehow 2x as effective (double strength disco against Peerless? Yes please!).

Nope - it means that instead of the active mastery giving you a 10% (if memory serves) bonus to successfully use the underlying skill on a given MOB, you get a 20% bonus... Not particularly useful in my estimation.

 

[Loren]

Thanks for saving me the points!

About ready to burn the Mystic Token... a few more questions if you folks can? How should I aim to spread the stats, is it (with mods of course) 125 STR/INT leftover in Dex. That seems likely, he is going to be a Bard/Tamer, Elf. No Tally to start. I might chop wood for the Birds one.. Scrolled up, but to begin, will have 90 for Lore, Tame, Vet, Provo. Worked Music to 100, and Disco to ...85-ish. Saved those on a toon before I left last time, yay me.

I figure I can read for myself, and figure out what to try and tame/fight with. EasyPeasy to make +10 or 15 jewels with Armani. I want to practice the style though, before I go jeweling up and wasting mats. That being said, my initial plan is to make him a standard leather, medable LRC, 70 suit, with some regen and lmc. So pretty much a mage trainer. Unless that is bad ?

Yeah Tuan, that is exactly what the suit sounded like! Glad you folks caught it for me. I want to play this one the way he is for a while. How hard would it be to work in 120 Magery to a Bard/Tamer build ? I ask because I already have real 120 Magery skill on a character. I could just stone it over, if I can find a deal on a 120 scroll. Problem I have is adding up numbers, to not have an astronomically spendy suit, since I need to fit at least 100 Med in there somehow. Decisions decisions. First Iteration:

All Bard skill real eventually,

120 Music
120 Discordance (swappable with Provo)
98 (+12) Tamer = 110
97 (+13) Lore = 110
100 Vet
65 Magery
120 Med

Just enough Magery to have fizzle free In Vas Mani, and recalls. More than enough for gate scrolls. Looking at spreadsheets, I think easing the load on imbuing weights is better than going 112/112. I think I am ready to try it out. So 3 questions (I organized my thoughts while typing, sorry!)

• How does that look, for something to work towards, template-wise ?
• How about the stat spread ? Clearly 150 INT is the goal, but how much STR do I need standing behind my meatshields ? I mean pets. Min Dex/Stam ? Since Uoguide says " "Dexterity no longer effects the speed of your Veterinary skill. Vetting bandages take 2 seconds regardless of healer's stats.".. how much Dex do we run vs HP pool ?
• Any reccomendations for min MR to start suit with ?

Regards,
Loren

 

[Lord Taliesin]

I really enjoy my mystic bard:
120 Music/Disco/Provo/Peace (real skill)
120 Mystic/Focus/90 Mage (+30 for each on jewels)
55 lmc studded suit with about 30 mr and 210 mana after elf bonus.
Disco+rising colossus+disco masteries with a slayer instrument does crazy damage.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

All Bard skill real eventually,

120 Music
120 Discordance (swappable with Provo)
98 (+12) Tamer = 110
97 (+13) Lore = 110
100 Vet
65 Magery
120 Med

How does that look, for something to work towards, template-wise ?

• How about the stat spread ? Clearly 150 INT is the goal, but how much STR do I need standing behind my meatshields ? I mean pets. Min Dex/Stam ? Since Uoguide says " "Dexterity no longer effects the speed of your Veterinary skill. Vetting bandages take 2 seconds regardless of healer's stats.".. how much Dex do we run vs HP pool ?
• Any reccomendations for min MR to start suit with ?

Template wise I think it looks defensively weak and you'll die a lot. Anything with aura, Necro, Mysticism is going to retarget you and with no melee defence kill you quickly. Even more so if you're directly damaging them with Discord masteries, which on a great deal of monsters will also trigger more counter attacks. I think you've spread everything too thin. At least with melee defence you can take the aggression long enough to reposition so that the pets are always flagged.

Stats, always go for max Str/HP on every character, Stam don't have less than 15 (when you get Clumsey/Cursed and damaged you will end up walking when you need to run), everything else in mana.

I would undoubtedly be a gargoyle not an elf, or if you want mounts like Cu's/Mares, I'd be human.

Before worrying about MR, I would decide on a more solid template, if you're sticking with Vet I wouldn't bother with masteries/Med. If you want masteries/Med I wouldn't bother with Vet.

I'd 120 Magery on any option for a Mage Weapon, or at least 110, or at least 100 Wrestle. You can build a very solid Discord/Tamer that jewels up to Discord, has Wrestle and Med/Mage that I think would be a lot stronger than this.

It looks like you've kind of gone to make a Bard and ended up making a fairly standard Tamer.

 

[Loren]

Template wise I think it looks defensively weak and you'll die a lot. Anything with aura, Necro, Mysticism is going to retarget you and with no melee defence kill you quickly. Even more so if you're directly damaging them with Discord masteries, which on a great deal of monsters will also trigger more counter attacks. I think you've spread everything too thin. At least with melee defence you can take the aggression long enough to reposition so that the pets are always flagged.

Stats, always go for max Str/HP on every character, Stam don't have less than 15 (when you get Clumsey/Cursed and damaged you will end up walking when you need to run), everything else in mana.

I would undoubtedly be a gargoyle not an elf, or if you want mounts like Cu's/Mares, I'd be human.

Before worrying about MR, I would decide on a more solid template, if you're sticking with Vet I wouldn't bother with masteries/Med. If you want masteries/Med I wouldn't bother with Vet.

I'd 120 Magery on any option for a Mage Weapon, or at least 110, or at least 100 Wrestle. You can build a very solid Discord/Tamer that jewels up to Discord, has Wrestle and Med/Mage that I think would be a lot stronger than this.

It looks like you've kind of gone to make a Bard and ended up making a fairly standard Tamer.

Good analysis. I need to think some more of what I expect to do with the character, and check out some more templates. Characters I have played are Melee-Pally/Dexxer, ScribeMage w Necro/SS, and Miner w some Combat skills. Completely different thought processes. I had started working the Music and Disco, having seen a Disco/Archer template that looked fun. I just came back and thought about 'Bard/Tamer', and Tamer/TreasureMapper. You got me on the masteries. I thought they sounded cool, and knew I needed real skill for them. I did not really consider what I was supposed to DO with them and in what kind of a build. I am really out of my element with this stuff. Seems so much easier to plan a caster, or a melee toon. Or perhaps I just think so, since I know more about that stuff. I have never used a Mage Weapon, or wrestle. I thought every template with Tamer, used Vet, especially now with 2 sec bandies for pets with it.

I did see (or think so) that templates were quite different for taming a GD vs Fighting with one. Heck, a Bard/Tamer or Tamer/Bard, may not even be what I wanted. I can see there is much I do not understand about combat with pets. I thought you needed to Disco something first, to tame the harder and tougher mobs, and also to have better dmg or effect on things you wanted to harm (Disco, then next move) perhaps I did not understand what I read. Definitely sounds like I should keep the Bardic skills and character separate from some kind of Tamer / X build. For a Bard/X :

• Find some fun (killing things) template to use the Barding I have now on stones = (Music 100, Provo 90, Disco 86.5)
  • Possible things to mix with the above are Mysticism, Archery, 90.
  • Necromancy 93.2 and SS 85.7
  • Mace Fighting 100

I mentioned the Magery, but it is already 120, and adjusting it is not happening. Never again I DO have 2 open slots on him, having stoned off Lockpicking and Cartography. He still kills spawn (most of it) on lvl 6 and 7 Maps fine. Not sure how to fit Music + X onto him for Tmaps. Would Peacemaking be helpful to my EV's, or would it just wear off and then I have a pissed off wyrm chasing me down ? For now, the EV's hold aggro pretty well, the exception being Minotaurs. I have not yet fought a changeling.

I think it was Poo's Disco/Archer build for dungeoning that I had read about, but I do not recall the build specifics. Kind of at a loss now for which direction to go. I already have a Tmapper, and I am working a Champ/Spawn and Peerless character. I want to build this 3rd character for dungeon crawling in general, and also specifically to hunt in Shame and the like. It is fine to borrow skills using stones, but I am not dropping ones I worked. In general I think Resist Spells, blows. I use petals, apples, and heals. I had it up to 120 on my Pally, would still get poisoned, and it does nothing for DD spells. Do not see the point anymore. But I do not think that is what you meant about no defenses.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Good analysis. I need to think some more of what I expect to do with the character, and check out some more templates. Characters I have played are Melee-Pally/Dexxer, ScribeMage w Necro/SS, and Miner w some Combat skills. Completely different thought processes. I had started working the Music and Disco, having seen a Disco/Archer template that looked fun. I just came back and thought about 'Bard/Tamer', and Tamer/TreasureMapper. You got me on the masteries. I thought they sounded cool, and knew I needed real skill for them. I did not really consider what I was supposed to DO with them and in what kind of a build. I am really out of my element with this stuff. Seems so much easier to plan a caster, or a melee toon. Or perhaps I just think so, since I know more about that stuff. I have never used a Mage Weapon, or wrestle. I thought every template with Tamer, used Vet, especially now with 2 sec bandies for pets with it.

I did see (or think so) that templates were quite different for taming a GD vs Fighting with one. Heck, a Bard/Tamer or Tamer/Bard, may not even be what I wanted. I can see there is much I do not understand about combat with pets. I thought you needed to Disco something first, to tame the harder and tougher mobs, and also to have better dmg or effect on things you wanted to harm (Disco, then next move) perhaps I did not understand what I read. Definitely sounds like I should keep the Bardic skills and character separate from some kind of Tamer / X build. For a Bard/X :

• Find some fun (killing things) template to use the Barding I have now on stones = (Music 100, Provo 90, Disco 86.5)
  • Possible things to mix with the above are Mysticism, Archery, 90.
  • Necromancy 93.2 and SS 85.7
  • Mace Fighting 100

I mentioned the Magery, but it is already 120, and adjusting it is not happening. Never again I DO have 2 open slots on him, having stoned off Lockpicking and Cartography. He still kills spawn (most of it) on lvl 6 and 7 Maps fine. Not sure how to fit Music + X onto him for Tmaps. Would Peacemaking be helpful to my EV's, or would it just wear off and then I have a pissed off wyrm chasing me down ? For now, the EV's hold aggro pretty well, the exception being Minotaurs. I have not yet fought a changeling.

I think it was Poo's Disco/Archer build for dungeoning that I had read about, but I do not recall the build specifics. Kind of at a loss now for which direction to go. I already have a Tmapper, and I am working a Champ/Spawn and Peerless character. I want to build this 3rd character for dungeon crawling in general, and also specifically to hunt in Shame and the like. It is fine to borrow skills using stones, but I am not dropping ones I worked. In general I think Resist Spells, blows. I use petals, apples, and heals. I had it up to 120 on my Pally, would still get poisoned, and it does nothing for DD spells. Do not see the point anymore. But I do not think that is what you meant about no defenses.

The Masteries are really cool a lot of people don't realise quite how powerful/versatile they are on their own. You can get them on hybrid templates but they become watered down in my opinion. I have played a full Discord/sampire who for example was running both Despair/Tribulation while leeching mana to stay full it's good for soloing but less effective than a more rounded sampire.

The last thing you said about general dungeon crawling, and not wanting Resist, make it sound to me like you'd benefit from a fairly pure Bard template. This would have full Med/Mage and use the Masteries. I would be concerned with using Masteries to buff pets/summons fairly sparingly it's not really a huge difference, the 10 minute cooldown on swapping Masteries in the field is also a consideration.

I would suggest:

120 Mage
120 Med
120 Music
120 Prov
120 Discord
-
The last skill I would reccommend be out of:

Peace - Which I have not considered hugely useful since Pre-AOS, is there purely to boost the effects of the Prov/Discord Masteries.
Resist - When you're relying on mana for all of your offense/defense getting Mana Vamp'd and Parra'd is an issue, and you can get caught, it's near impossible to die with Resist on that template.
Spellweaving - A few different tricks up it's sleeve, though I'm not a huge fan there are some useful things you can do with it.

I have two recent threads that show some of what can be done:
http://stratics.com/threads/newly-rebuilt-suit.330207/
http://stratics.com/threads/minions.331913/

...I'm halfway through this response and have got called away I'll add more later.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Following on...

You can get extra damage from using your Mage Weapon. For example I use a Heavy Crossbow as it has the highest base damage. It also provides you with effectively 120 Wrestling so you can stand and take hits quite easily.

I'm not sure where the post went but I had one showing the Unbound Energy Vortex's in Shame. One of them, Discorded, with 8+ Diseased Blood Elementals Provoked on to it, Despair/Tribulation both running, I could further add in my own summons, Mage Weapon hits, and Mindblast.

With the above setup it's fairly easy to also have 30 MR on the suit as you only need 15-20 Magery on items for the Mage Weapon. You can then run Despair/Tribulation until it wears off (rather than running out of mana). It's easy to have 150 Str/HP, and with the Provoke Masteries you will have over 150 HP (with two Bard skills you'll have 173 HP) you also get healed for around 15-19 every 2 seconds, so only need to Cure.

You can also bond a pair of Vollems which are the same as Nightmares. (On any character really.)

If you're not aware Masteries can be stopped by taking more than 30 damage, casting them again, or having insufficient mana for their upkeep. You can set the damage type for Discord by single clicking the Mastery book (also where you switch between the active Mastery), from what you've said you've played I imagine you're familiar with most monsters weaknesses for example Reptile Slayer/Fire/Despair on a Discorded White Wyrm will kill it in two hits. If you don't know the targets weakest resist you can easily find out by going through them all, you have to keep toggling it on/off and changing the type, but on long fights it makes a big difference.

I can't think of any normal land/dungeon type monsters that can't be done with this template and quite a few bosses too. Get all the Slayers (single Slayer's provide no bonus over super Slayers), there's a Fey one from Clean Up Britannia, Iolo Lute/Gwenno Harp take care of Demon/Undead/Repond/Reptile, Flute Of Renewal for Arachnid/Elemental, I also carry exceptional for things with no Slayer, and the Dread Flute (which is a non exceptional but replenishes charges) for when I'm using Bard skills on lots of weaker creatures that don't need exceptional/Slayer as it saves wasting charges.

Notice certain monsters that Counter Attack when damaged (Slasher, Medusa, Stygian Dragon, Dark Fathers, Mephistis, Navrey). For example Unbound Energy Vortex's will Teleport you to their location when they receive damage credited to you, so while having all those numbers spamming off them is awesome the Teleport will cause anything else nearby to flag on you, so make sure you Provoke everything up. Disable Masteries/tab out of war mode if you need to Med (if you go 120 Med, 40 LMC, 30 MR you won't need to often, unless you decide to throw Mindblasts in for good measure)

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I'd consider also a Discord/Mystic (120 Mage/Med/Music/Disc/Focus), played in Stone Form, using Discord/Colossus/Stone Form/Despair/Tribulation, but personally find Provoke/Discord too good a combination.

 

[Loren]

Good stuff. Thank you.

 

[Merus]

Personally I would drop the mystic and focus all together. Get Magery/Med and 2 vollems. I use a 15 mage weapon and 15 magery on a jewel. Well trained vollems are easily a match for the RC damage output, with the only drawback being the need to heal them, but with 120 med and a good regen suit running the bard mastery while casting heals isn't too bad. Not a template you are going to solo Slasher with, but all around an excellent and fun template.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Good stuff. Thank you.

Any update on what you decided to do Loren?

 

[Loren]

Any update on what you decided to do Loren?

Yup
Going with 120 Mage/Med +4x 120 Bard. Will keep Resist stoned to swap with Peacing as needed.
I have 20 MR on my caster suit now, that will have to do until I can loot or reforge better. Is there a crafting map or thread somewhere about hitting the 30 MR on a suit?
Have a Lt Brit Royal Guard Sash [Replica] and a Hooded Blackthorns Robe, Tangle , Tal'Keesh so there is 10 MR. Pendant of Magi would make 13. Shadow Cloak of Rejuvenation makes 14.

So I need to reforge for 3 or 4 MR on sleeves, legs, tunic, gloves, and make up the rest with a shield? Sounds doable. If I left out any pieces above, or you would recommend NOT using one of the above please suggest.

For the Mage Weapon, I will craft a bow, and reforge/imbue for as low as I can get on the - skill, until I get better. For the times I get pulled or tele'd to monster I am thinking something melee, nice and slow, that I can get 100 HML and a good chunk of HLL on. haven't really decided yet.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Yup
Going with 120 Mage/Med +4x 120 Bard. Will keep Resist stoned to swap with Peacing as needed.
I have 20 MR on my caster suit now, that will have to do until I can loot or reforge better. Is there a crafting map or thread somewhere about hitting the 30 MR on a suit?
Have a Lt Brit Royal Guard Sash [Replica] and a Hooded Blackthorns Robe, Tangle , Tal'Keesh so there is 10 MR. Pendant of Magi would make 13. Shadow Cloak of Rejuvenation makes 14.

So I need to reforge for 3 or 4 MR on sleeves, legs, tunic, gloves, and make up the rest with a shield? Sounds doable. If I left out any pieces above, or you would recommend NOT using one of the above please suggest.

For the Mage Weapon, I will craft a bow, and reforge/imbue for as low as I can get on the - skill, until I get better. For the times I get pulled or tele'd to monster I am thinking something melee, nice and slow, that I can get 100 HML and a good chunk of HLL on. haven't really decided yet.

Awesome, that's what I currently have actually. Although I treat it more that Resist is the semi-permanent fixture that I swap out for Peace/Spellweaving or whatever I want to experiment with. (Considering also Tactics for even heavier weapon hits.)

I would recommend not using the Tal'Keesh or Pendant Of The Magi, but that said, use whatever caps everything you want to cap... I've had suits with everything capped and you look at what's in them and find some low end ML arty and think wtf? lol. Whatever works. I'm currently working on a high end setup that could end up using Aegis Of Grace for example.

My MR comes from: 2 on LT sash, 9 on Mage Weapon Heavy Crossbow, 1 on Mystic's Memento, 1 on Shadow Cloak of Rejuvenation, then 3 pieces of armor with 3 MR, and two pieces of armor with 4 MR, one piece has none, I don't have the robe slot used either.

Looks like you're giving good thought to your choices so major kudos for that.

 

[Merus]

Yup
Going with 120 Mage/Med +4x 120 Bard. Will keep Resist stoned to swap with Peacing as needed.
I have 20 MR on my caster suit now, that will have to do until I can loot or reforge better. Is there a crafting map or thread somewhere about hitting the 30 MR on a suit?
Have a Lt Brit Royal Guard Sash [Replica] and a Hooded Blackthorns Robe, Tangle , Tal'Keesh so there is 10 MR. Pendant of Magi would make 13. Shadow Cloak of Rejuvenation makes 14.

So I need to reforge for 3 or 4 MR on sleeves, legs, tunic, gloves, and make up the rest with a shield? Sounds doable. If I left out any pieces above, or you would recommend NOT using one of the above please suggest.

For the Mage Weapon, I will craft a bow, and reforge/imbue for as low as I can get on the - skill, until I get better. For the times I get pulled or tele'd to monster I am thinking something melee, nice and slow, that I can get 100 HML and a good chunk of HLL on. haven't really decided yet.

Watch for legendary 1 handed weapons and shields. My shield has 4 mana regen and my weapon has 9. Also, mana regen on jewelry is pretty easy now days too. I think both my jewels have at least 2 mana regen.

 

[Merlin]

I really enjoy my mystic bard:
120 Music/Disco/Provo/Peace (real skill)
120 Mystic/Focus/90 Mage (+30 for each on jewels)
55 lmc studded suit with about 30 mr and 210 mana after elf bonus.
Disco+rising colossus+disco masteries with a slayer instrument does crazy damage.

I run something very similar, with the exception of having meditation instead of peacemaking. I rarely run out of mana and usually do major amount of damage with RC, Mystic spells, Disco songs w/ slayer flutes.

Also, a very good template for farming Exodus keys via use of provo. I can get a few full sets doing it by myself in a relatively short amount of time.

 

[Lord Taliesin]

I run something very similar, with the exception of having meditation instead of peacemaking. I rarely run out of mana and usually do major amount of damage with RC, Mystic spells, Disco songs w/ slayer flutes.

Also, a very good template for farming Exodus keys via use of provo. I can get a few full sets doing it by myself in a relatively short amount of time.

I'll have give this guy a go for Exodus keys. I'm using a dexxer now and it's a slow process.

 

[Merlin]

I'll have give this guy a go for Exodus keys. I'm using a dexxer now and it's a slow process.

I would suggest starting in the side rooms instead of the larger center room. Provo the minions, overseers and drones on each other, if there is a juggernaut and champion, provo those two and hit 'em with discos. Hit invis as the red mages approach and then hit them with nether cyclone to clear 'em out when they get close. You can clear out a room pretty easy that way. If you don't mind the karma loss, make sure you kill all the champions because they seem to have the best drop rate for keys.