2 > 5 Slot Training - 3 Rounds Possible ?

[Night]

Greetings fellow training addicts !

Is there any way to get three rounds of training from 2 > 5 slot pets ? I've tried four times with 2 slot Najasaurus and Frost Mite and every time they jump from 2 > 4 slots after the first round of training and the Lore & Knowledge page changes from 2 > 5 to 4 > 5

Any help please or is it just not possible ? Is there some hidden order of training things I'm not aware of ...

Just wanted to check before committing scrolls to one of these pets.

 

[Donavon]

Good morning night, Yes its very possible,,,with frost mites its abit harder but still doible,,, the key is investing in things that don't effect the math on the early lvl..You see the game factors in things like HP, str, and mana pool each lvl to consider the slot vaule ,,over investing in one can cause a slot jump.. so with pets that are born a lower slot value in round one there are 2 paths I have mapped that will get ya to the next round without a jump.. first and for most leave HP alone.. HP and str investings in bulk are the #1 cause of slot jumps..even mana pool increase in bulk early on can lead to a jump..so frist max your resistances.. this uses up a good amount of points.. add a special move and school of magic.. then max mana regen...these are all things that don't play a role in the slot math behind the pet...at least not on a large enough scale to cause a double jump... now at this points increase stam and dex to 150 as they play very lil in the slot math values.. at this points you are left with about 77ish points for most pets.. now this is very important.. depending on the mana pool value the pet has at this point you can invest the rest into this..with a naj it will be close to a jump but as long as the mana pool doesn't go over 400 you should be safe... thats one road to a safe single slot jump... now the 2nd road is for people that already have the pets plan laid out and is far eizer as you basicly use up almost all the points by 120ing the pet out in round one after fixing resist and dex/stam and mana reg you are left with lil points left..which is good as increasing the caps of a pet plays very lil in the math which causes a pet to slot jump(just don't over skill it to the caps once increased as this can cause a jump)..spending the points in this way will increase the slot by 1..but thats normal... that just the safest route in round one.... ok now lets talk other pets and slot jumps... pets like beetles , lesser hiryu...and even pets like naj who made it through the first round.. it is possible to cause a slot jump later in the pets life.. this happens when ya over invest in a single heavy stat like HP or even mana in a given round(increasing HP by 400 at 3 slot is a prime example. or mana by 500) the key is small investing in stats from slot to slot with a planned finished amount as your end goal.. Hope this helps abit.. there is more I can tell ya about slot jumping but it varies from pet to pet and spec to spec.. these two paths have been my best maps that fit most pets that slot jump and will lead ya to a fuller better trained spec..but if anyone else been a deeper example of the math behind slot jumping feel free to ask or message me.. Hope this helps mate =^-^=

 

[Deadly Serious]

Skill investments can cause slot jumps, but this is more the case of bladeweave and learning fient/frenzied for free so best to safe till the 5 slot stage. Obviously doesn't apply to frostmite/naj tho they can't learn any bush/ninj skills i believe.

 

[Donavon]

oh yes skills can cause a jump..thats why its very important when working with a lower slot born beast not to over skill it.. its best to shot for 5 slot then skill your pets.. as adding a fresh skill normally only adds 20-30 points to the mix.. its not to big...but if ya increase that to 50-80 then it plays a big part in the values behind the slot.. I've even killed lower slot pets that were close to a slot jump because of skills and had friends rez them for max skill lose to stop a possible over skilling jump.

 

[Night]

Thanks Donavon, you're a legend. I figured it might be something like training order but I rushed the first few without checking the facts .. my bad.

Thanks for other replies also, there's obviously a bit of lore / myth around training that isn't fully out there yet.

 

[railshot]

Good morning night, Yes its very possible,,,with frost mites its abit harder but still doible,,, the key is investing in things that don't effect the math on the early lvl..You see the game factors in things like HP, str, and mana pool each lvl to consider the slot vaule ,,over investing in one can cause a slot jump.. so with pets that are born a lower slot value in round one there are 2 paths I have mapped that will get ya to the next round without a jump.. first and for most leave HP alone.. HP and str investings in bulk are the #1 cause of slot jumps..even mana pool increase in bulk early on can lead to a jump..so frist max your resistances.. this uses up a good amount of points.. add a special move and school of magic.. then max mana regen...these are all things that don't play a role in the slot math behind the pet...at least not on a large enough scale to cause a double jump... now at this points increase stam and dex to 150 as they play very lil in the slot math values.. at this points you are left with about 77ish points for most pets.. now this is very important.. depending on the mana pool value the pet has at this point you can invest the rest into this..with a naj it will be close to a jump but as long as the mana pool doesn't go over 400 you should be safe... thats one road to a safe single slot jump... now the 2nd road is for people that already have the pets plan laid out and is far eizer as you basicly use up almost all the points by 120ing the pet out in round one after fixing resist and dex/stam and mana reg you are left with lil points left..which is good as increasing the caps of a pet plays very lil in the math which causes a pet to slot jump(just don't over skill it to the caps once increased as this can cause a jump)..spending the points in this way will increase the slot by 1..but thats normal... that just the safest route in round one.... ok now lets talk other pets and slot jumps... pets like beetles , lesser hiryu...and even pets like naj who made it through the first round.. it is possible to cause a slot jump later in the pets life.. this happens when ya over invest in a single heavy stat like HP or even mana in a given round(increasing HP by 400 at 3 slot is a prime example. or mana by 500) the key is small investing in stats from slot to slot with a planned finished amount as your end goal.. Hope this helps abit.. there is more I can tell ya about slot jumping but it varies from pet to pet and spec to spec.. these two paths have been my best maps that fit most pets that slot jump and will lead ya to a fuller better trained spec..but if anyone else been a deeper example of the math behind slot jumping feel free to ask or message me.. Hope this helps mate =^-^=

Very valuable information as always, Donovan. I understand that this is currently the only approach, but the big problem I have with it is doing 120s early, them costing as much as they do. You apply 120s early and then the pet jumps anyway - you juast wasted 100+ Million.
I guess the other way suggested previously of not stabling the pet until training is done, does not really work?

 

[Night]

Just doing a dry-run on a 2 slot nightmare, I'll let you know how it goes. If I mess it up this time I may want to know more about the Math and will probably start a spreadsheet (groan) !

Attempting Start / Finish stats of
HP 301 > ~750
STR 282 > ~650
INT / Mana 109 > ~500

[Round 1]
Max Resists
Max Mana Regen (is it safe to do HPR and SR at this point too ?)
1x Special Move / Ability (not using anything that adds Ninjitsu / Bushido)
1x Magic Ability (assume 1x Area Effect Ability is ok at this point) (Might actually go Mystic so assume this is a neutral use of points)
Max Stam / Dex
Powerscrolls to Cap or maybe some Mana / Int (see how brave I'm feeling)

[Round 2]
HPR / SR to Max (if not done earlier)
DPS (if possible at this point)
Some HP / STR / INT / Mana (not too much)
Powerscrolls

[Round 3]
DPS (if not done in next round)
As much HP / STR / INT / Mana as I have points for

 

[Basara]

My tactics also include making sure to not skill-train the pet. When the pet reaches 5 slot, you have all the time you want to reach their skill cap.

So, don't fight anything that will make skills go up (other than focus & med, which you can't avoid reaching cap quickly, and Resist Spells, which gain slowly, and you'll get some small gains during the training).

The ideal thing for training most pets on this way are crazed mages, as there's a relatively small area where a pet can gain skill fighting against them (focus/med/resist, maybe poisoning, parry, anatomy and/or healing - and you can avoid resist, parry and healing if you let someone else tank, at the cost of getting training %'s at a slower rate)

 

[MalagAste]

Wait till after this next publish which "supposedly" will FIX slot jumping.

 

[Night]

Hah !

Went to try on TC, tamed a fresh 2 > 5 slot mare (pretty low overall stats), started to add resists and boom ... jumped straight to 3 slots.

Think I'll give up on it for now ...

 

[Donavon]

just remember that while adding points it will go form 2 to 3 sometimes right off the bat... this is not a bad thing..as long as once all the points are added its still only 3 slot.. I call this the juke effect..where people see the slot change early on and figure they messed up early on.. don't lose heart if on the first thing ya change it changes to 3 slot from 2..only if when you are done investing all the points and it goes from 2 to 4 should ya have the sad face.. when ya have a 2 slot at 100% its always best to jump on test and spec is slowly ..as the math varies abit from pet to pet based on its stats...Stabling the pet can work.....but when ya get a lower slot pet make sure to start the training right away. I don't mean take it to 100% but just lore it and hit the start training button as sometime its so close to a jump from birth it will auto round up as soon as ya start it.. Night in round one if ya don't use the PS road. for a 2 slot mare.. I normally fix resist, 30 mana reg, 20 HP reg, ( special move) then depending on how many points ya have left a small boost in mana and since its a cast type a small increase to its int as this value doesn't play a huge amount t the value ... if it changes to 3 slot once ya change its resist once again don't lose heart..keep going ad as long as its not 4 slot at the end of round one then ya handled it like a boss..if you like I would glad meet ya on with a copy of your lower slots to help ya max slot them ... hope this helps abit more mate =^-^=

 

[MalagAste]

Hah !

Went to try on TC, tamed a fresh 2 > 5 slot mare (pretty low overall stats), started to add resists and boom ... jumped straight to 3 slots.

Think I'll give up on it for now ...

You know it's supposed to go to 3 when you start adding points... it's when it jumps straight from 2 to 4 that is the issue....

 

[Night]

Going to hop back on shortly and complete that training cycle to see if it stays at 3 slots, bit hasty again ! Thanks for the help / patience.

 

[Pawain]

My tactics also include making sure to not skill-train the pet.

Ive been telling people that I hate skilling.

I made my 2 slot Naj a long time ago. Had no problems but I am glad that is done.

I look at a fresh 3 slot Cu and try to not go above those HP or STR when I go from 2 to 3.

I have 2 lesser that will bond when I a back from vacation. I hope I don't have any troubles.

Frost Mites and gallasaurus are really tough to train and not skip. Even without skilling.

I don't know how long that patch will be. I must train!

 

[Night]

Went back and finished the nightmare on TC1 (in a less 'jumpy' frame of mind lol) and it was pretty straightforward. Not a serious build just a test:

Round 1: Resists, 30 MR, 20 HPR, 10SR, 150 Stam/Dex, Mana + ~150
Round 2: DPS, +200 INT, +200 STR, Myst, HP +96, Mana +2
Round 3: DPS, Bladeweave, HP > 600, STR > 515, 610 left for scrolls

I noticed (worryingly) that Bladeweave isn't adding Bushido / Ninjitsu anymore and it doesn't gain either when activated in combat. I guess this could stop any damage multiplier on certain BW moves and stop the adding of Ninjitsu / Bushido scrolls ?

 

[Deadly Serious]

I noticed (worryingly) that Bladeweave isn't adding Bushido / Ninjitsu anymore and it doesn't gain either when activated in combat. I guess this could stop any damage multiplier on certain BW moves and stop the adding of Ninjitsu / Bushido scrolls ?

that will make bladeweave pretty much useless on any pet that isn't from the tokuno islands, fient especially requires bushido skill for damage reduction.

 

[Grace of Minoc]

Went back and finished the nightmare on TC1 (in a less 'jumpy' frame of mind lol) and it was pretty straightforward. Not a serious build just a test:

Round 1: Resists, 30 MR, 20 HPR, 10SR, 150 Stam/Dex, Mana + ~150
Round 2: DPS, +200 INT, +200 STR, Myst, HP +96, Mana +2
Round 3: DPS, Bladeweave, HP > 600, STR > 515, 610 left for scrolls

I noticed (worryingly) that Bladeweave isn't adding Bushido / Ninjitsu anymore and it doesn't gain either when activated in combat. I guess this could stop any damage multiplier on certain BW moves and stop the adding of Ninjitsu / Bushido scrolls ?

Just now transferred a cu sidhe I was planning to add bladeweaving to over to the TC and he gained bushido within a minute of fighting after I gave him bladeweaving.

Thus, maybe it does not work on some pet types??

 

[Pawain]

Going to hop back on shortly and complete that training cycle to see if it stays at 3 slots, bit hasty again ! Thanks for the help / patience.

You better take it to TC first. People are saying two slot pets that also had 3 slot varieties are being reset.

 

[Deadly Serious]

Just now transferred a cu sidhe I was planning to add bladeweaving to over to the TC and he gained bushido within a minute of fighting after I gave him bladeweaving.

Thus, maybe it does not work on some pet types??

Is bladeweave still removing bleed? (sorry i would test myself but it won't let me copy yet)

 

[Rhafiki]

So, on the other end....you can get 4 levels of training on a lion. When I gave mine poisoning and got rid of the other spell thing(the fencing thing I think), he dropped from a 4 slot back to a 3 slot again.

 

[Jibbed]

So, on the other end....you can get 4 levels of training on a lion. When I gave mine poisoning and got rid of the other spell thing(the fencing thing I think), he dropped from a 4 slot back to a 3 slot again.

I will have to test that on test centre. The slot exploit fix may think they are an exploited pet and revert the pet to base stats, which will effectively ruin lions of any spec other than their default magic ability

 

[Grace of Minoc]

Is bladeweave still removing bleed? (sorry i would test myself but it won't let me copy yet)

It got rid of the bleed move from the list. Not immediately though. Had to log out to see if it would be gone from list after the first gain was still on the list. Then fought again to gain another .9 in bushido, then it left the list at 1.9 bushido.

 

[Deadly Serious]

It got rid of the bleed move from the list. Not immediately though. Had to log out to see if it would be gone from list after the first gain was still on the list. Then fought again to gain another .9 in bushido, then it left the list at 1.9 bushido.

I believe it's simply when bladeweave activates bleed as I've had cu's lose it immediately or even after an hour and i've been checking the moves it uses rather closely and I believe it to be the case.

The Cu Sidhe isn't ruined by bleed then in the next publish, that's fine I was extremely worried as Bleed is the reason why Cu struggles so much to compete with top pets such as lesser hiryuu.

 

[Zalan]

Bladeweaving should have nothing to do with Bushido. Its a special move that was introduced with Mondains Legacy. Non Bushido characters can use it. Nerve Strike, Frenzied Whirlwind, Armor Pierce, double shot, defensive mastery, feint, block, dual wield, talon strike, and riding swipe are Bushido and Ninjitsu related.

 

[Basara]

Bladeweaving should have nothing to do with Bushido. Its a special move that was introduced with Mondains Legacy. Non Bushido characters can use it. Nerve Strike, Frenzied Whirlwind, Armor Pierce, double shot, defensive mastery, feint, block, dual wield, talon strike, and riding swipe are Bushido and Ninjitsu related.

Part of the issue is that Bladeweave has, as possible results, "Block" & "Feint". Which I've bitched about for a decade, as they really only work right if you have the SE skill requisites - for everyone else, it's a wasted special move expenditure (though I think I might have gotten lucky a few times, playing a human, and had the moves' effects work, that's because of JOAT - Elves (who supposedly invented the move) and Gargs don't even get that).

 

[Timothy4464]

has this slot jumping been fixed? It has been over a year since people talked about this. Do i have to be worried still about training 2 slots?

 

[Khaelor]

has this slot jumping been fixed? It has been over a year since people talked about this. Do i have to be worried still about training 2 slots?

Would be better to make a new thread asking a question then bumping old threads with outdated info that confuses people...

Yes, it has been fixed and there were numerous threads stating such. It was fixed with Patch 98.

 

[Timothy4464]

I am that confused people, just joined stratics, its hard to find the information i need, i google and read the forum that pops up. I do not know what is fixed and what is outdated. So I ask. but once people read ur response at the end here they will know it has been dealt with so others wont waste time asking

 

[Pawain]

has this slot jumping been fixed? It has been over a year since people talked about this. Do i have to be worried still about training 2 slots?

Fixed and it was a myth except for 3 slot Galusaurus. Rest you shouldn't have put HP on.

You thought we have had slot jumping pets for over a year. Nice 1.