Do GMs enforce the rules anymore?

[buurz]

Specifically regarding people spamming in general chat in-game that they are seling gold? The reason I ask is because I've sent bonnie armstrong aka mesanna two emails as wel as UO support an email regarding two individuals that just spam in general chat that hey are seling gold in-game. I even included screenshots and this was a week ago... Guess what... They are doing it again tonight, so is it ok now to just openly try and sell gold in general chat or offer to make SCRIPTS for cash? Because thats exactly what they are doing, so uh whats up?

Avatar on Atlantic server spams in general chat that he is seling gold

MaZa on Atlantic server spams he is selling Scripts for money

So what gives, why hasnt anything been done?

 

[Xare]

Because there's no reason to. Players have learned to deal with it. I'm sure even a large portion of players use those services.

If they enforced their rules, I think they'd have to shut down the game.

 

[Val-Tur]

Avatar is a spam plague that exists on basically on every server with multiple versions of the name so when enough people put them on ignore they just change accounts. I have to do this over and over with every character I have. I am sick of it, but nothing can be done but keep putting them on ignore unless you want to never use general chat. One of the "perks" of having a server wide chat. Be glad UO does not have a general in game mail service. Then you get to delete 100's of gold spam emails like many other mmos.

 

[Naxatilor Feluka]

Its because when the account is terminated they just make a new trial account.

 

[petemage]

Specifically regarding people spamming in general chat in-game that they are seling gold? The reason I ask is because I've sent bonnie armstrong aka mesanna two emails as wel as UO support an email regarding two individuals that just spam in general chat that hey are seling gold in-game. I even included screenshots and this was a week ago... Guess what... They are doing it again tonight, so is it ok now to just openly try and sell gold in general chat or offer to make SCRIPTS for cash? Because thats exactly what they are doing, so uh whats up?

Avatar on Atlantic server spams in general chat that he is seling gold

MaZa on Atlantic server spams he is selling Scripts for money

So what gives, why hasnt anything been done?

They go for everything EJ and some low hanging fruits (like obvious afk training in haven). Everything that pays a decent amount of subs is usually free to do everything short of duping tokens that would cost money otherwise. You would be amazed how close some people selling accounts/houses/gold for cash are to our beloved producer and the UO ecosystem in general.

 

[Pawain]

I wonder how many of the speculators have noticed they advertise their services now without a web site in the message... Something was changed by the devs.

 

[railshot]

As long as free accounts exist, it's a waste of GM time to try to fight this. A script can create a new free account and start spamming without human input. While GMs have to waste their limited time playing whack-a-mole. Every MMO has these. Nobody has ever "won" against them.
Don't bother putting them them in your ignore lists - that again just wastes your valuable time. Just simply ignore them.

 

[MalagAste]

Well if everyone would STOP buying stuff from them they would go away... they continue to do it because people actually buy this stuff. If the DEVs wanted to really stop it they could start actioning accounts who use the service... but that would be a bit more difficult to trace.

 

[Spartan]

Wait ... Whut? There are GMs in the game?

Will wonders never cease.

 

[Pawain]

Wait ... Whut? There are GMs in the game?

Will wonders never cease.

Yup I have called a GM three times in the last month and they have shown up and fixed the minor issue.
Within 15 Min. And there are at least three GMs. All had a different name.
You know whats happening in UO when you actually play instead of.

 

[dingomate]

The spam message is modified to avoid any in game filtering.

The staff obviously doesn't care or lack payroll funding to have people in game monitoring properly. Probably squeezing what they can to maintain a profit.

The integrity of the game is paramount. When you jeopardize that for profits, things fall into place accordingly...

 

[railshot]

If the DEVs wanted to really stop it they could start actioning accounts who use the service... but that would be a bit more difficult to trace.

And that's a bit of the understatement.

 

[Stinky Pete]

I have called for a GM twice in the last year or so. Both times I received a response within 20 minutes and the issue was resolved. Both times I was unable to use any skills. I am of the opinion that if the issue is something within their power to fix, they fix it quickly. If it is not within their power they don't waste their time with it. I imagine issues that cause an inability to play are highest priority. Issues where people are being harassed are probably not as high. Issues involving in game items are probably not going to get a response.

 

[Basara]

They've said in the past that they don't actually respond to the reporter for the spammers - just note the report and investigate on a higher level than the GMs.

As the spam is actually a account-actionable offense, it's handled at higher than the GM level, as are reports of other abuse (the GMs just take the reports and the decisions for bans, etc. are made higher up in the next few days).

 

[Xris]

I have called for a GM twice in the last year or so. Both times I received a response within 20 minutes and the issue was resolved. Both times I was unable to use any skills. I am of the opinion that if the issue is something within their power to fix, they fix it quickly. If it is not within their power they don't waste their time with it. I imagine issues that cause an inability to play are highest priority. Issues where people are being harassed are probably not as high. Issues involving in game items are probably not going to get a response.

I agree. Last time I called a GM was for a bug that deleted my soulstones (even though they were locked down on my floor). I waited around 3 hours to a generic response that said submit a bug report. I did, and also emailed mesena 2-3 times. No response from anyone and I didn't get my soulstones back. Unless it's a quick fix, they can't be bothered.

 

[Stinky Pete]

I agree. Last time I called a GM was for a bug that deleted my soulstones (even though they were locked down on my floor). I waited around 3 hours to a generic response that said submit a bug report. I did, and also emailed mesena 2-3 times. No response from anyone and I didn't get my soulstones back. Unless it's a quick fix, they can't be bothered.

Right, missing soulstones is not in their power to fix. Putting in a bug report is all that can be done in that situation. Sure, it sucks, but you can't really blame the GM. The policy has always been that they don't replace items. I would assume that policy is in place because they have no way of knowing if you are lying or not. I doubt you were, but what's to stop someone like me from telling a GM I had 20 soulstones disappear and demand immediate replacement? If the devs replaced missing items, I imagine their inboxes would be full of requests to do so at all times.

 

[Xris]

Right, missing soulstones is not in their power to fix. Putting in a bug report is all that can be done in that situation. Sure, it sucks, but you can't really blame the GM. The policy has always been that they don't replace items. I would assume that policy is in place because they have no way of knowing if you are lying or not. I doubt you were, but what's to stop someone like me from telling a GM I had 20 soulstones disappear and demand immediate replacement? If the devs replaced missing items, I imagine their inboxes would be full of requests to do so at all times.

Ya I understood what was going on, that's why I didn't flood mesena with messages. It's a 20+year old mmo with a skeleton crew. You win some, you lose some.

 

[Silent Singer]

There is also the option to play on Siege Perilous. We took our Avatar vaccine and have been STD clean for years. No Avatar spam there

 

[railshot]

Right, missing soulstones is not in their power to fix. Putting in a bug report is all that can be done in that situation. Sure, it sucks, but you can't really blame the GM. The policy has always been that they don't replace items. I would assume that policy is in place because they have no way of knowing if you are lying or not. I doubt you were, but what's to stop someone like me from telling a GM I had 20 soulstones disappear and demand immediate replacement? If the devs replaced missing items, I imagine their inboxes would be full of requests to do so at all times.

Most games have logs that should be able to show which items belong to which account and char and what happens to them. Would be nice if GMs were able to check those.

 

[Xare]

Most games have logs that should be able to show which items belong to which account and char and what happens to them. Would be nice if GMs were able to check those.

First two words. "most games" are the key point. UO does not have those types of logs as far as we've been able to determine.

 

[Cailleach]

I wonder how many of the speculators have noticed they advertise their services now without a web site in the message... Something was changed by the devs.

The one on Europa has the url in his message...

 

[railshot]

First two words. "most games" are the key point. UO does not have those types of logs as far as we've been able to determine.

I really find that hard to believe. UO saves records what happens in the world continuously. It remembers the stats on an item that was created 20 years ago. So the data is there. They may not bothered to create the tools for the GMs to examine item provenance, but I can't see how this should be terribly hard to do. Mesanna is able to examine an item and determine if it was duped. So, obviously some people on the team have the means.

 

[MalagAste]

IMO rules anymore seem to be "flavor of the month" club enforced... they gave up on spam guy because he's back up and running after being banned in nothing flat... not that I blame them if he just keeps reopening accounts there really isn't a lot they can do about it. As for the other people, I think Duping is the #1 priority offense that will get you banned probably followed by saying something racially motivated... or something else seriously nasty but seems you can threaten people IRL and say horrid things in Gen Chat most all day and nothing will happen to you on most times of day ... You can be paged on for any number of things depending on other players' current mood and whether or not they like or dislike you...

And their backward policy on not replacing lost or stolen items is EXCEEDINGLY outdated... a vast majority of other games will replace them... as well they will compensate people all the time for the "inconvenience" of bugs... I get this all the time in many of the games I play not only on my PC but also on my phone... heck I even get "compensated" for time I can't play because of updates that happen when most people wouldn't have been playing in the first place like at 3am... to 7am.

The only rules they seem to choose to enforce are random IMO... This is partially why I refuse to post on their "official" forum... simply because most times they enforce stuff over there just as randomly as they do in-game... when it strikes their fancy... if they like or dislike you... and sometimes only if called out on it. Which IMO is just wrong. At any rate I'd likely get banned in the first week if I did post over there because I'm the type of person that will call them out on stuff... I still do that... I just do it here or I email them directly.

I've given up on trying to make any sense at all of most of what they do. IMO just play the game and enjoy it. If you are like me you'll be fine following the rules. If you want to cheat and whatever that's on you don't cry when they do decide to enforce their rules... but just remember also that cheaters are just losers who can't play... and are afraid to lose. They don't realize they already lost.

 

[Xare]

I really find that hard to believe. UO saves records what happens in the world continuously. It remembers the stats on an item that was created 20 years ago. So the data is there. They may not bothered to create the tools for the GMs to examine item provenance, but I can't see how this should be terribly hard to do. Mesanna is able to examine an item and determine if it was duped. So, obviously some people on the team have the means.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a developer, coder, etc.,

Imagine we have an item. Let's say a pickaxe. It has unique ID #1 (we're just gonna call this guy #1 for the rest of the post). We'd have to create a way to track it; presumably not that hard, I agree. So, #1 gets picked up by Bob the miner (he crated it himself; simpler times man). He uses it a little bit, then decides to keep it, sentimental reasons. Bob locks it down in his castle, just to remember the good ol' times when UO didn't suck and it was nice and simple.

Years go by; Bob occasionally picks up #1 and moves it. We'll say every month or so for 10 years; Bob likes to decorate, so things get shuffled often. Finally, Bob just kinda fades into the distance like most players do. His castle falls (poor Bob's castle, should've paid that $15 a month to keep it.) Jack comes up with his scripts and clean loots Bob's castle in 0.5 seconds flat. He takes the time to sort through everything later, see #1 and thinks "what the hell is this junk" and tosses onto the ground, because Jack is not only a scripter, he's a litterbug too (the horrors!!!). #1 sits there until it eventually is picked up by Billy, who is totally ignorant and thinks he found something worth vendoring. Brings it back to town, and sells #1 for 15 gold.

So, let's track how big the database (DB1, for convenience, mine, not yours; who's typing here?) for #1 is. Bob crafts #1. DB1 now says it was in Bob's pack. Bob places it in his castle (we're going to assume it never went to his bank or a packie in this time, but if it did, each move would add a line to DB1), now DB1 shows it was placed on the ground in the castle, and it was in Bob's pack. Then Bob redoes his deco. Picking up #1 (DB1 history is now: in Bob's bag, on Bob's castle's floor, in Bob's bag), and places it back down somewhere else (DB1 history: Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack). Assuming it doesn't get moved other than the monthly for 10 years. it would look something like this at that point:

Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack,Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack, Bob's castle's floor, Bob's pack

Now, Jack comes along when the castle falls, which adds another line to DB1: on the ground. When Jack's script picks #1 up, we're going to say he has ownership of #1, so since the fall, DB1 reads: in Jack's bag, on the ground, on Bob's castle's floor x whatever it was up there (being nice to both of us by not repeating that idiocy), then tosses #1 into his packie (DB1: In Jack's pack horse, in Jack's bag, on the ground, on Bob's castle's floor x120ish). Jack cleans his loot out (DB1: In Jack's bag, in Jack's pack horse, in Jack's bag, on the ground, on Bob's castle's floor x120ish), and tosses #1 on the ground (DB1: On the ground, in Jack's bag, in Jack's packie, in Jack's bag, on the ground, on Bob's castle's floor x120ish). Billy picks it up (DB1: In Billy's pack, on the ground, in Jack's bag, in Jack's packie, in Jack's bag, on the ground, on Bob's castle's floor x120ish), then sells #1 (what a way to go. Raise a glass for #1 all)

At any given time, EVERY SINGLE ITEM in game would have a history like this. Sure, we can limit it, so only the last 20 moves are saved, but then someone can maliciously take your items, move them however many times between their bag, their bank, the floor, etc., and any history of you having it are gone. Not only is UO's engine most likely not designed to handle this kinda load (funny story about blinking christmas lights in Braving Britannia shows how weak the servers were, I'm going to assume they've improved some, but I'll leave that discussion up to players who know more than me), the shear amount of data that would be created by this is absurd.

 

[railshot]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a developer, coder, etc.,...
...
At any given time, EVERY SINGLE ITEM in game would have a history like this. Sure, we can limit it, so only the last 20 moves are saved, but then someone can maliciously take your items, move them however many times between their bag, their bank, the floor, etc., and any history of you having it are gone. Not only is UO's engine most likely not designed to handle this kinda load (funny story about blinking christmas lights in Braving Britannia shows how weak the servers were, I'm going to assume they've improved some, but I'll leave that discussion up to players who know more than me), the shear amount of data that would be created by this is absurd.

There is no need to limit anything to last 20 moves, nor do I think it is done. The full data for the history of everything can be stored in database servers and accessed as needed. Only current state of the item needs to be readily accessible, and it is. There is really no reason a GM should not be able to pull up a history of everything Bob has ever owned. It's not difficult programmatically; it does not need to be handled by the game server; and it should have a minuscule hardware load.

 

[MalagAste]

Actually I think it would more over look like input time... 16:40 on 11/19/2019 and at that time location XYZ whatever item was locked down on bobs castle floor... 18:45 item no longer in data base.

But the issue people want to record would be bought skeletal cat off the in-game MP and was riding it in Haven... died... cat died... no corpse... at 14:25 on 11/02/2019... where they could go back see I owned the thing... see I haven't sold the thing... traded it... see it DIED.. and see I no longer have it didn't release it, therefore, it should be replaced...

I don't see any reason why they would replace anything but things that are account bound, purchased in the MP, vet rewards that are broken...

I am with folk on the idea that if somehow I lost my house not sure how that would occur but if I did the soulstones and shard shields I own would be nice if they appeared in my bankbox then.

But should they replace the chest you forgot to lock down before you logged... no.

 

[TheGrimReefer]

Start banning IPs as well as accounts. Simple.

 

[MalagAste]

Start banning IPs as well as accounts. Simple.

Really that's so last century... anyone with half a brain can circumvent that with a VPN... and I'm sure at least a dozen other ways.. IP banning is NOT the answer.

 

[Vyric]

I really find that hard to believe. UO saves records what happens in the world continuously. It remembers the stats on an item that was created 20 years ago. So the data is there. They may not bothered to create the tools for the GMs to examine item provenance, but I can't see how this should be terribly hard to do. Mesanna is able to examine an item and determine if it was duped. So, obviously some people on the team have the means.

It's true. Just after Christmas of last year my house on Catskills decayed 2 weeks after I placed it with 2 weeks game time remaining. They claimed to have zero record of me even placing a house and when pressed about why all 7 characters had nothing in the bank vaults and to explain where 15 years of items and 25+ Soulstones went, this was their final reply. The cowards never replied back when I asked them to attempt to explain how a house can naturally decay on an open account when they earlier said I had no house at all on the account on any shard

 

[Haidon]

It's true. Just after Christmas of last year my house on Catskills decayed 2 weeks after I placed it with 2 weeks game time remaining. They claimed to have zero record of me even placing a house and when pressed about why all 7 characters had nothing in the bank vaults and to explain where 15 years of items and 25+ Soulstones went, this was their final reply. The cowards never replied back when I asked them to attempt to explain how a house can naturally decay on an open account when they earlier said I had no house at all on the account on any shard

I usually get the "its a twenty year old computer game, crap happens" whenever I talk to a GM. Its true, but still hard to swallow, even about minor occurrences.

 

[MalagAste]

It's true. Just after Christmas of last year my house on Catskills decayed 2 weeks after I placed it with 2 weeks game time remaining. They claimed to have zero record of me even placing a house and when pressed about why all 7 characters had nothing in the bank vaults and to explain where 15 years of items and 25+ Soulstones went, this was their final reply. The cowards never replied back when I asked them to attempt to explain how a house can naturally decay on an open account when they earlier said I had no house at all on the account on any shard

That sounds more like someone accessed your account and started stripping it.

 

[morPR]

If anyone is stupid enough to buy from that lazy moron who spams the chats ... we all know who he is... then that person deserves to be scammed.

 

[morPR]

............... and his website is ugly as hell. I looked it over and I just don't know why people would buy from it.

 

[Lore]

There was a mod here that actually advocated for the pay 2 win model these sites enable. The logic they used is that they work so they should be able to choose to spend real money to keep up with people that want to spend more time in the game doing the content.