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Why was the skill limit never raised above 120 over the years?

Rafman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This seems like the easiest trick in the MMORPG genre. WOW with every new expansion goes up from lvl 60, to 70, to now 100+ I believe.

When UO came out with power scrolls, it was a pretty cool/new/different system. For the first time ever, you could go above 100 in some skills. For the first few years it led to some strong fights/pvp in fel around power scrolls - you either had to fight to get the good ones, or pay to be able to get 120 skill scrolls. From a training perspective, in the early years, training all the way up to 120 was also somewhat challenging, and when you hit 120 it was special.

Why not continue? New expansion - great, we now can go up to 125 in some skills. Or 130....maybe even all the way up to 150 over time. Or maybe add new skills that are capped to 100 to go to 120 (example - hiding).

New higher powerscrolls = something new/worth fighting over in fel, making champ spawns remain fun/competitive and relevant. Now you could either simply "create" a 130 power scroll - or make it so you have to combine 10x 120 to create a 130 scroll, without adding actual scrolls in-game.

New/higher skills to train - gives players something to strive towards. "Hey i'm 6x120 on my mage...but now I can go 130 magery and cast this really kickass spell that's a difference maker...ok cool, i'll go work to buy the scroll and train up all my chars".

I mean to me it's common sense - it's something they should have done regularly to continue growing the game. Obviously it would have to be more than just a # - if you go from 120 to 130 magery, there would have to either be new spells, or abilities, or significant upside. But it's a way to grow the game.

Any chance this could still happen in the future, or has that ship sailed by now?
Also - does anyone know if this was ever seriously discussed/considered by the Devs before being nixed, or not?

Also - do you agree this would be a good change/addition to the game, or not?
 

Promathia

Social Distancing Since '97
Premium
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Arent the skill masteries basically the same thing? New progression system, new loot from game content, new spells + passive abilities
 

Laura_Gold

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
When UO came out with power scrolls, it was a pretty cool/new/different system.
No it wasn't, because things got rescaled to the new maximum.
We were told that that was NOT going to happen and that higher than grandmaster would be a bonus [citation needed]. We were lied to.
I noted that as a grandmaster mage, I went from being able to cast gate travel almost all the time to being able to cast it about a third of the time.
So, no, not cool.
It was an erosion of the skill cap to force us into skill templates.

See also "chivalry" which got nerfed all to omelet as its abilities got rescaled to 120.

We got pancaked. You just haven't been around long enough to remember before that happened.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
No it wasn't, because things got rescaled to the new maximum.
We were told that that was NOT going to happen and that higher than grandmaster would be a bonus [citation needed]. We were lied to.
I noted that as a grandmaster mage, I went from being able to cast gate travel almost all the time to being able to cast it about a third of the time.
So, no, not cool.
It was an erosion of the skill cap to force us into skill templates.

See also "chivalry" which got nerfed all to omelet as its abilities got rescaled to 120.

We got pancaked. You just haven't been around long enough to remember before that happened.

Exactly right what we could once do at GM without fail (ie cast a gate) at GM we now can't do reliably ... it fizzle a LOT at GM ... all they did was stretch out the skill to the new max.

Recently in Black Desert they have done the same thing with life skills... I called that one right on the nose... said it smacked of early UO with the stupid PS and I was right. Same song and dance in another game... no improvement to skill at all it's all smoke and mirrors to making you believe its more than it was... when all it is is another thing for you to have to get to maintain what you have.
 

Draza

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
My tamer archer is rocking 810, and if i can get the right jewels, i will push it to 840+
 

Rafman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No it wasn't, because things got rescaled to the new maximum.
We were told that that was NOT going to happen and that higher than grandmaster would be a bonus [citation needed]. We were lied to.
I noted that as a grandmaster mage, I went from being able to cast gate travel almost all the time to being able to cast it about a third of the time.
So, no, not cool.
It was an erosion of the skill cap to force us into skill templates.

See also "chivalry" which got nerfed all to omelet as its abilities got rescaled to 120.

We got pancaked. You just haven't been around long enough to remember before that happened.
Yeah, i understand what you mean, I agree. That's not the way it should have worked. That's kind of going off on a tangent though.

I'm asking - why didn't UO go up past 120 in later years, or why not even now? Of course if they did come out with an expansion that lets you go to 130 magery for example - the idea wouldn't be to change it so "hey you now need 130 skill to not fizzle existing magery spells", as that's stupid. The idea would be "hey - here are lvl 9 spells - and you need 130 to cast those". Same for other skills.
 

Rafman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Arent the skill masteries basically the same thing? New progression system, new loot from game content, new spells + passive abilities
Kind of - but I also think it's not the same thing. So many of the masteries are either useless, or redundant, or unnecessary. It's not the same thing as training up all of your skills from 120 to 130...or more. I mean that's what MMORPG games are usually about, "leveling up" your characters. There isn't any of that anymore in uo, and hasn't been for years. You don't need to "train" to use masteries, you just use them. And can only use one at a time I believe.
 

Nero

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
We do not have 120 power scrolls for more than half of the existing skills.

Why a new skill cap when the old one has not even been completed for the many, many remaining skills after 20 years?
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I think plus skill should be limited from items, or make more things full capacity based off of real skill. I wouldn't mind if they had a slightly raised cap on skills over 120, if would definitely improve pvp at dungeons and help the economy of the game. But there needs to be a hard cap on total skill points regardless of real or not. I would recommend 760 as hard cap, and I mean raising the current 720 to 760 so plus skill isn't involved. Without some kind of limitation the game will continue to devolve into more and more forced small metas like it is now.
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I think plus skill should be limited from items, or make more things full capacity based off of real skill. I wouldn't mind if they had a slightly raised cap on skills over 120, if would definitely improve pvp at dungeons and help the economy of the game. But there needs to be a hard cap on total skill points regardless of real or not. I would recommend 760 as hard cap, and I mean raising the current 720 to 760 so plus skill isn't involved. Without some kind of limitation the game will continue to devolve into more and more forced small metas like it is now.
Translation, you'll profit off of it.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I thought more they could perhaps raise the other cap from 720 to 840 and then be strict about it... no counting anything over 840... no + skill stuff past that. But it would give crafters a bit more room to do things and allow folk to run two weapon skills if they wanted and stuff... might help their problem with power creep... I don't know. Could do some interesting stuff..
 

Rafman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We do not have 120 power scrolls for more than half of the existing skills.

Why a new skill cap when the old one has not even been completed for the many, many remaining skills after 20 years?
Yes exactly.
To be clear - i'm not talking about changing the skill cap of 720. I'm talking of specific, individual skills. Give us more powerscrolls is what it boils down to. There are two ways of doing so:

Skills that don't currently have power scrolls (hiding, alchemy, etc), get some power scrolls.
Increasing skills who have power scrolls past 120 (so like magery, or taming - allowing them to go to 130, or 140).

To me - this seems like common sense. Would lead to renewed pvp action scene, as it gives pvp'ers new powerscrolls to fight and compete over. Would also lead to extra enthusiasm for a very large majority of players, as new skills to train is typically a goal to strive for.

Whether or not you also have to raise the skill cap from 720 to more is a separate topic - pros and cons to both.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Yes exactly.
To be clear - i'm not talking about changing the skill cap of 720. I'm talking of specific, individual skills. Give us more powerscrolls is what it boils down to. There are two ways of doing so:

Skills that don't currently have power scrolls (hiding, alchemy, etc), get some power scrolls.
Increasing skills who have power scrolls past 120 (so like magery, or taming - allowing them to go to 130, or 140).


To me - this seems like common sense. Would lead to renewed pvp action scene, as it gives pvp'ers new powerscrolls to fight and compete over. Would also lead to extra enthusiasm for a very large majority of players, as new skills to train is typically a goal to strive for.

Whether or not you also have to raise the skill cap from 720 to more is a separate topic - pros and cons to both.
upload_2019-9-26_16-46-57.png
 

Laura_Gold

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I wish* that some skills would not count against the skill cap.
It would not unbalance the game if people had legendary blacksmithing, legendary tailoring, grandmaster item ID, for example. These skills aren't used in combat.

Further: it would not be unbalancing if a person were legendary in all weapon skills but only one counted against the skill cap, because it's not like you can wield a sword and a kryss at the same time.

*Am I allowed to use this word? Is it going to turn into a breakfast food? LOL.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I rather like Black Desert Online for this as they have you pick a "class" but then all "life skills" are separate... and you can be a Master or whatever gatherer or trainer or cook as well as a badass archer or whatever.
 

Ender

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
7x 120 should be the limit. And I'd be just fine with skill bonus items being unable to break that limit.
 

Mayhem_wushu

Adventurer
720 skill cap is more than enough. I have a couple of toons with 20 points of "waste" and others that i wanted more skills on I built around loot/ arties. wraith form archer discorder... just broke the 1k skill with jewels and gear. Also have a Necro mage tamer with music and bard skills that teeters between 880 and 900 skill.

if the cap was higher there would be no point to anything.
 
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