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(Young) and in Dungeons?

EvilPixieWorks

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Perhaps I'm missing something... should become the title of a new segment!... BUT I noticed this last night while working skills on my big dog. A newbie, scavenging my kills... with a "young" title, no apparent skill... and not being attacked for the "young player status protection" (perhaps).

I could be totally wrong. Didnt it used to be impossible for youngs to be in dungeons?

OR... if they did go inside, they didnt have that newbie protective status?

I've been noticing quite a few guys running around (young), but clearly having skills... and I'm 100% sure thats because of the pay tokens via the UO Store. (Approved Cheating). Some are clearly not new players... returning on a new account OR expanding their empire on a new account... so they dont look like newbies at all. Others, have no clue what they are doing... or have extremely poor manners for lack of experience.

What's the deal with "young players" inside dungeons, though? Did the rules change (once again)?
 

Fridgster

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Perhaps I'm missing something... should become the title of a new segment!... BUT I noticed this last night while working skills on my big dog. A newbie, scavenging my kills... with a "young" title, no apparent skill... and not being attacked for the "young player status protection" (perhaps).

I could be totally wrong. Didnt it used to be impossible for youngs to be in dungeons?

OR... if they did go inside, they didnt have that newbie protective status?

I've been noticing quite a few guys running around (young), but clearly having skills... and I'm 100% sure thats because of the pay tokens via the UO Store. (Approved Cheating). Some are clearly not new players... returning on a new account OR expanding their empire on a new account... so they dont look like newbies at all. Others, have no clue what they are doing... or have extremely poor manners for lack of experience.

What's the deal with "young players" inside dungeons, though? Did the rules change (once again)?
I know fel does not show up on a moongate. If memory serves you can nit recall in either. Perhaps currupted portals or vendor search maps are allowing this? Either way it is not suppose to be possible.
 

Lord Frodo

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Why should a "Young" not be allowed into any dungeon when EJ Accounts are allowed in.
 

Drakelord

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If as a young, you attacked a monster, that monster was free to hit you, all well and good, till you hit that magic number in skill points and every monster could hit you.
 

sablestorm

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Youngs were always allowed in dungeons, but their young status did not protect them. I don't know if it has been changed with Endless Journeys. I'll have to test it. Mind you, monsters have to have line of sight to attack players now so might it be that you are used to the old way where monsters aggroed the nearest player, no matter how many walls were between?
 

EvilPixieWorks

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I'm sorry. I just dont remember youngs in dungeons... or if its been changed in the last 10+ years. So many rules are changed/bent/broken/fixed differently. :) Who knows?

Maybe its the new trend?

When I started, I ditched the young player status right away, granted... never wanted to go visit the murderers... however I was hot to build skills as soon as possible (Power Hour). I know, for many years, it was a sport of the "young" marked to sit around begging from vets. So much so, it became a sport vs. playing the actual game. You could always tell the fakes from the real new players by a simple test of teaching them a basic skill and a sudden anger over not getting a payout. Those were the con-artists. I'm sure it still happens. I dont hang around Haven. BUT, looting killed bodies is at least better then begging. "Digging in the rubbish" like in r/l. hehe
 

EvilPixieWorks

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Something is just screwy with this system...

Today I spotted a tamer in Twisted Weald... or whatever the big dog dungeon. A young was taming dogs... full of gear only a vet would have.

Sure this isn't some kind of exploit? Granted, the tamer wasnt all that good... BUT he WAS taming them... getting attacked, then he gave up and went away. Skill, buying via UO store is one thing. This was no newbie.
 

Lord Frodo

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Something is just screwy with this system...

Today I spotted a tamer in Twisted Weald... or whatever the big dog dungeon. A young was taming dogs... full of gear only a vet would have.

Sure this isn't some kind of exploit? Granted, the tamer wasnt all that good... BUT he WAS taming them... getting attacked, then he gave up and went away. Skill, buying via UO store is one thing. This was no newbie.
Soulstones and PSs
 

Fridgster

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Soulstones and PSs
Once you give up young status on one character it is gone account wide. Soulstones wouldnt work. Thou with a mythical character token plus the training kit in the store one could get to 120s pretty quick.
 

EvilPixieWorks

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Once you give up young status on one character it is gone account wide. Soulstones wouldnt work. Thou with a mythical character token plus the training kit in the store one could get to 120s pretty quick.
Thats my question as well. This guy I spotted with a paper doll saying "Legendary Tamer".
 

PageBoy

Journeyman
Something is just screwy with this system...

Today I spotted a tamer in Twisted Weald... or whatever the big dog dungeon. A young was taming dogs... full of gear only a vet would have.

Sure this isn't some kind of exploit? Granted, the tamer wasnt all that good... BUT he WAS taming them... getting attacked, then he gave up and went away. Skill, buying via UO store is one thing. This was no newbie.
Mind your own business damn, are you a cop in real life?
 

Lord Frodo

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  • Monsters that would normally react in a hostile manner will not attack young players, except in self defense, unless they are quest monsters . (you will receive a message in your journal if a monster wants to attack you so you can learn which monsters are hostile)
  • Young players will be teleported to a healer upon dying and will retain any belongings.
  • Young players can insta-log anywhere.
  • Young players may not loot monsters they did not kill for two minutes after the death of the monster.
  • Other players may not loot monsters killed by young players.
  • Young players may not travel to the Felucca facet; this is the facet on which you can be attacked by other players
  • Young players may not steal from other players or NPCs.
 

Tabby Kapak

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To get back on topic, when we tried to take the hotcave route on our Young EJ char, we did get a warning that our young status would not protect us inside. So we decided against going in, with the nasty phoenixes living there heh. Thus we don't see any advantage of using young players in dungeons? So really don't see what the "exploit" would be? And grabbing what others leave on corpses can be a great way to improve armour for new players, one (wo)man's trash is another's treasure? Heck, even as veteran players we sometimes feel baffled by what others will leave on a corpse. Got over 3k of relic frags from Krampus corpses during the event, while we didn't even get to fight that many!
 

MissEcho

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  • Monsters that would normally react in a hostile manner will not attack young players, except in self defense, unless they are quest monsters . (you will receive a message in your journal if a monster wants to attack you so you can learn which monsters are hostile)
  • Young players will be teleported to a healer upon dying and will retain any belongings.
  • Young players can insta-log anywhere.
  • Young players may not loot monsters they did not kill for two minutes after the death of the monster.
  • Other players may not loot monsters killed by young players.
  • Young players may not travel to the Felucca facet; this is the facet on which you can be attacked by other players
  • Young players may not steal from other players or NPCs.
Our resident unattended scripter in the dark guardian room of the doom dungeon uses his 'young' character with 5 x gamens in tow to boost the number of people in the room so he/she can get up to 24 or so dark guardians spawning at a time. I guess as the 'young' owns the gamens they are under his young protection too as they don't attack so the lichs ignore them. Although the main scripter is set up that he auto targets nearly everything in the room in seconds, it takes him/her all of 5 seconds to waste 30 dark guardians. This scripter is in their daily for 15 odd hours a day until the other players sometimes 'interupt' him/her. They loot, walk out, sacred journey to zento bank where they dump the tmaps for clean up points and bank gold. Nice gold when you are looting 21k gold every 2 mins or so.

Although reporting this person regularly, they get away with it because they have an 'alert' script that advises them when a GM shows up so it seems nothing that will be done about them, they have been in that room for over a YEAR now. I watched one day as the GM repeatedly asked the scripter to talk to them and it took them a good 5 minutes to do so. Even then the gm had to ask them to say more than 'hi'. As soon as they did the gm says have a nice day and leaves. Total rubbish. One guy on our shard is now live streaming the scripter and has sent a link to mesanna, although I doubt anything will be done.

The stuff they put in the newsletter is pure rubbish in my opinion, without naming and shaming them anyone can say 'we got rid of xxx scripters'.... yeah right. This one has been continuously reported and bugger all is done. Until such time as he/she is dealt with anything that the devs say about how they are stopping this type of behaviour is just bulldust. Blind Freddy can see what this guy is doing, noone plays a game for a YEAR by doing one room for 15+ hours a day.
 

Gidge

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You can always hop on your dog and invis and let whatever you are killing put all their attention to the person that is "helping" you. Though years ago, this very thing is why we have individual loot boxes now. Most games I have watched my kids play have a group aspect. So that person may have come from a game where group killing is the norm. Didja say hi! and strike up a conversation? I always try to.... and lastly, their youngness will wear off and they'll just be one of us soon enough.
 

celticus

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Thats my question as well. This guy I spotted with a paper doll saying "Legendary Tamer".
I guess, should not be too hard to do: Get a new sub, buy the advanced character token fro UO store, get accelerated gains something, then likely went to RMT and bought 120 taming, then got to taming 90 real quick, then lore 120, then maybe even Vet, and used rings to get up to 120 taming-lore instantly. And if Young status" is allowed in the dog area, wallah! Young status and taming dogs. I guess..I can't see too much illegal here, other than RMT, but maybe he/she got PS from in game from friends etc, also the rings..?
 

Fridgster

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I could actually see this being exploited in some interesting ways. Keying any of the peerless would be a lot easier as a young player. Taming dogs you don't have to worry about changelings. Killing dogs to farm them with a young sampire all day long and not have to worry about negitive karma... yeap the sudden ability to become top end player while young could prove to be the new fad pretty quick. Don't worry though in a year or two the devs will fix it :)
 

celticus

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How long does the young status stay? Is it like a few days? If it leads to potential feed for scripters, then get rid of the young status, or limit it to 1 RL day only..
 

Pawain

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We had a player named Link on LS that was young and we would see him all over the place. None of us could figure out what he was doing. We called him Peter Pan. (forever young) He left last year. Have not seen him since then.

(not refering to Miss Es example) We should pull all the developers off what they are doing and have them investigate the abuse by the young.
 

Fridgster

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Limiting it would work. Wojld be dissapointing to me because I use young players for extra storage and they autolog out at my house :devil:
 

Lord Frodo

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Our resident unattended scripter in the dark guardian room of the doom dungeon uses his 'young' character with 5 x gamens in tow to boost the number of people in the room so he/she can get up to 24 or so dark guardians spawning at a time. I guess as the 'young' owns the gamens they are under his young protection too as they don't attack so the lichs ignore them. Although the main scripter is set up that he auto targets nearly everything in the room in seconds, it takes him/her all of 5 seconds to waste 30 dark guardians. This scripter is in their daily for 15 odd hours a day until the other players sometimes 'interupt' him/her. They loot, walk out, sacred journey to zento bank where they dump the tmaps for clean up points and bank gold. Nice gold when you are looting 21k gold every 2 mins or so.

Although reporting this person regularly, they get away with it because they have an 'alert' script that advises them when a GM shows up so it seems nothing that will be done about them, they have been in that room for over a YEAR now. I watched one day as the GM repeatedly asked the scripter to talk to them and it took them a good 5 minutes to do so. Even then the gm had to ask them to say more than 'hi'. As soon as they did the gm says have a nice day and leaves. Total rubbish. One guy on our shard is now live streaming the scripter and has sent a link to mesanna, although I doubt anything will be done.

The stuff they put in the newsletter is pure rubbish in my opinion, without naming and shaming them anyone can say 'we got rid of xxx scripters'.... yeah right. This one has been continuously reported and bugger all is done. Until such time as he/she is dealt with anything that the devs say about how they are stopping this type of behaviour is just bulldust. Blind Freddy can see what this guy is doing, noone plays a game for a YEAR by doing one room for 15+ hours a day.
And your point to me is. Those were direct quotes from UO.Com
 

celticus

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We had a player named Link on LS that was young and we would see him all over the place. None of us could figure out what he was doing. We called him Peter Pan. (forever young) He left last year. Have not seen him since then.

(not refering to Miss Es example) We should pull all the developers off what they are doing and have them investigate the abuse by the young.
Forever Young..Awesome..
 

MissEcho

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And your point to me is. Those were direct quotes from UO.Com
my point wasn't to you, just using the post you made that spells out what youngs can do. I just used the stuff you posted to highlight how this 'young' guy that this scripter uses just 'insta logs' in the doom dungeon with his 5 gamons to aid this scripting. Just saved me reposting the options a young has. Sheesh touchy lol
 

Fridgster

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my point wasn't to you, just using the post you made that spells out what youngs can do. I just used the stuff you posted to highlight how this 'young' guy that this scripter uses just 'insta logs' in the doom dungeon with his 5 gamons to aid this scripting. Just saved me reposting the options a young has. Sheesh touchy lol
honestly he is doing it the hard way. casting 5 natures fury works much better and don't have to cure poison :)
 

MissEcho

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honestly he is doing it the hard way. casting 5 natures fury works much better and don't have to cure poison :)
well no you can't just hide a young hidden permanently in there if you want it to cast spells continuously, this young doesn't attack, it is just there so he can unattend script on his sampire char. The young is unattackable and the gamens belong to it. The killer and looter is the sampire. Either way it is just another way of abusing game mechanics, I guess as soon as the 'young' wears off he deletes the account completely and starts another given he has been doing this for over a yr.
 

Fridgster

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well no you can't just hide a young hidden permanently in there if you want it to cast spells continuously, this young doesn't attack, it is just there so he can unattend script on his sampire char. The young is unattackable and the gamens belong to it. The killer and looter is the sampire. Either way it is just another way of abusing game mechanics, I guess as soon as the 'young' wears off he deletes the account completely and starts another given he has been doing this for over a yr.
Wow... that's pretty ingenious (no matter how despicable still ingenious). Use 2 youngs with 5 gamens each plus have sampire cast 4 natures fury that would be 34 dark guardians netting you ~23k in gold per round plus 34 maps (around 5100 points) plus over 1k in bones.
 

EvilPixieWorks

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40 hours.
I've seen a lot of scripting done in as many hours as they can dare go... getting busted, when we had a better GM staff. Even with the official UO Store cheating, its just hard to believe anyone could be more then a few days with this amount of "skill work", fame farming, and still be "young".

I mean, at least logically speaking, you would figure a limit would be reached and the status dropped as people clearly dont need the protection of that nice long list of cabbage as Frodo posted. What is the point if you can clearly fight or tame like a real player? Just seams like full-on cheating or an exploit.
 

Lord Frodo

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I've seen a lot of scripting done in as many hours as they can dare go... getting busted, when we had a better GM staff. Even with the official UO Store cheating, its just hard to believe anyone could be more then a few days with this amount of "skill work", fame farming, and still be "young".

I mean, at least logically speaking, you would figure a limit would be reached and the status dropped as people clearly dont need the protection of that nice long list of cabbage as Frodo posted. What is the point if you can clearly fight or tame like a real player? Just seams like full-on cheating or an exploit.
If you have a problem with it you are welcome to go to the official forums at UO.Com and let them know.
 

petemage

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You can always hop on your dog and invis and let whatever you are killing put all their attention to the person that is "helping" you. Though years ago, this very thing is why we have individual loot boxes now. Most games I have watched my kids play have a group aspect. So that person may have come from a game where group killing is the norm. Didja say hi! and strike up a conversation? I always try to.... and lastly, their youngness will wear off and they'll just be one of us soon enough.
We had one of those on Atlantic a couple years ago. I lost count how many times I got him killed. Short fun but gets old pretty quick. The scripters just sit it out because they have nothing to fear as long as they do it on paid accounts.

A day jailtime tops if you are paid!
 

Tabby Kapak

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So basically this whole discussion is about young status being bugged as the warning we got clearly shows that in dungeons young players SHOULD GET ATTACKED, and are NOT immune. So if that is not happening, the system is bugged, not wrong. We feel it is fair to allow youngs to wander around in the land and not be hit dead by a random ogre in 2 hits. (We thought btw we read 48 hours for young status, but we might have mistaken a 0 for an 8.) That is not a whole lot of time to explore when really being new, so no need to lessen that IOHO. But going into a dungeon is a concious action with the warning you get, so that SHOULD have consequences.
Still, having to recreate a young char every 2 days and load him up with gamans (why gamans?) sounds like tedious work. For over a year, that is insane?! And the GM should realise the young present in Dungeon Doom should be attackable? :rolleyes2:
 
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Captn Norrington

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This thread has been cleaned up a little. Please don't insult other people's posting style or intelligence going forward. Thanks.
 

EvilPixieWorks

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I see a lot of cheating these days. I dont normally hang about in the dog spawn area, not like the olden days. I used to sit and buy white and black dogs fresh spawn, train them up, resell... nice profit. After the new pets system came around, I had a stable full of pre-patch pets and needed a new dog to play with... train up, work the new systems and power scrolls and so on. Even on Atlantic, it was super hard to get some help with such a lower population. THEN it was not getting the right stats with the right color dog. Have 3 pre-patch bright pinks... ended up with a brand new bright pink. Wanted RED. Oh well. So, when I spotted this scripter... or whatever he was... I was training on Swoops. Every so often, a tamer would come by being attacked by a changeling… easy to help without being too bothered.

What I've been seeing a lot, inside that dungeon, are people using boxes or other obstacles to build skill off those satyr. Its easy enough to fix cheaters doing this. Carry an axe. :) The best part is these criminals screaming about reporting you to a GM when they could get banished for doing it. TRY and be nice... explain its a RoC violation, but what can you do? Cant force people to listen. Far better ways to gain skill and have fun. SLOWER, I'm sure. hehe
 

Captn Norrington

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The best part is these criminals screaming about reporting you to a GM when they could get banished for doing it. TRY and be nice... explain its a RoC violation, but what can you do? Cant force people to listen. Far better ways to gain skill and have fun. SLOWER, I'm sure. hehe
That is the most widely used method of skill training in the entire game. A solid 50%+ of the most active players use it and it's existed for years. I've literally never once heard of anyone being punished for it or any attempt to prevent it. At that point it's not really cheating anymore, it's a feature. I've never used it personally, but trying to harass people just training skills like that is pretty pointless. Skill training is one of the only forms of cheating that really doesn't have any negative effects on anyone since they're only altering their own skills which they can do legally anyway, and I'd actually say this helps keep UO active by allowing pvp'ers and EM eventers to rapidly change their skills and jump back into the playing part of the game instead of wasting weeks grinding in solitude every time they need to change something, getting bored, and quitting UO.

Stuff like picking up the books dropped by gold sellers, while pointless since they drop more anyway, is at least fighting against legitimate harm to the game. Chopping boxes of people training skills....not really.
 

EvilPixieWorks

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That is the most widely used method of skill training in the entire game. A solid 50%+ of the most active players use it and it's existed for years. I've literally never once heard of anyone being punished for it or any attempt to prevent it. At that point it's not really cheating anymore, it's a feature. I've never used it personally, but trying to harass people just training skills like that is pretty pointless. Skill training is one of the only forms of cheating that really doesn't have any negative effects on anyone since they're only altering their own skills which they can do legally anyway, and I'd actually say this helps keep UO active by allowing pvp'ers and EM eventers to rapidly change their skills and jump back into the playing part of the game instead of wasting weeks grinding in solitude every time they need to change something, getting bored, and quitting UO.

Stuff like picking up the books dropped by gold sellers, while pointless since they drop more anyway, is at least fighting against legitimate harm to the game. Chopping boxes of people training skills....not really.

I'm here to tell you picking up books is a great way to figure out what disposable guy is being used to script the book advertisement... grabbing a name... reporting him as a scripter, then "like magic", the criminal is gone for awhile. Dont catch him? Yeah, he just keeps books. Back in the day, it was sport catching the scripter running along, recall ahead, casting a gate... for the doorless room above Luna stables. Already reported, he would have to shine GM spotlight on him to get out. Still dont quite understand why they cant just tag his IP address.

I still say true scripters, building skills even in combat, know to work someplace hidden away... away from innocents and those of us with skilled eyes, instantly seeing them for what they are. Even the few people boxing monsters in (or out), some learn from a few vets telling them its a bad thing. Some just dont care. When you have a paragon changeling on your tail... the last thing you need is added orbitals. Thats a tight opening room to that dungeon! Loads of traffic... and those taming dogs, getting bit, run as hard as they can... in to a table? You can see the anger that would generate. :)

When I was new, I was told to set the better example by my uncle... who has since quit. Considering I more stay to myself, I always measure newer or returning players and HELP before just ditching them like a parking lot bum. A couple nice friends is all anyone needs to play for years and years, building even more friendships. Some people just aren't having the whole "teach a man to fish, feed him for life"... they demand the fish and cuss you out for not forking out. Let children be children! I just shake my head, go on to the next adventure. The few that take my fishing lessons, I rejoice at their successes. Thats the true reward.
 
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