What's up with Shadowguard rooms?

[Mama Faith]

Since the last publish to Baja, I've noticed chatter about the Fountain and Belfry being changed. I checked them out myself and sure enough, I found these 2 changes. It used to be that you could connect 2 spigots to the same drain. Now, that isn't possible. Unless you use all 4 drains (even if you've turned on all 4 spigots) you do not get credit for the room. As for the Belfry, I took my cu sidhe to the room and at first, she was doing great damage to the Greater Dragon. Without warning, I started being shoved back until I fell from the tower. My cu sidhe followed right after. Are these changes going to be permanent? If so, it's quite disappointing.

 

[Slayvite]

The "changes" are more of a "how it should always have been".
They just managed to fix the code now, so yup. By design

 

[Mama Faith]

Well darn. I was hoping it was just a bug.

 

[Spellbound]

It is a nasty BUG when you cannot complete the Fountain; hence no more Shadowroof until it is fixed on shards with the latest publish changes. I reported this bug on Friday. Larisa sent word and film of us testing on Origin yesterday to a dev. Here's to a quick extermintator taking action.

 

[Basara]

It is a nasty BUG when you cannot complete the Fountain; hence no more Shadowroof until it is fixed on shards with the latest publish changes. I reported this bug on Friday. Larisa sent word and film of us testing on Origin yesterday to a dev. Here's to a quick extermintator taking action.

There was a FAR WORSE exploit involving the fountain, that allowed a person to complete ONE path and complete the room. I reported it, as it was the only REAL abuse.

If that exploit still exists, and they took away the seeming LEGIT way to complete the fountain (every drain in your house doesn't have its own direct connection to the sewer under the street, after all - they combine to 1-3 pipes), then they screwed up.

If they are going to make it to where all 4 drains have to be used, they need to fix the spawn rate, to where the same number of elementals spawn (as the current rate for 2 people) no matter how many are in the room. As it's near impossible for 1 person to do it solo, and usually lethal to do it with 3 or more, in the current configuration, and forcing the use of all 4 outlets will only increase the difficulty by a couple of magnitudes.

 

[Poo]

we did the shadowguard twice last night, same as we always have and we had no issues at all.
i doubled up on one of the drains last night with no issue.
and ive been pushed off the Belfry before, that has always been there.

 

[S_S]

we did the shadowguard twice last night, same as we always have and we had no issues at all.
i doubled up on one of the drains last night with no issue.
and ive been pushed off the Belfry before, that has always been there.

Did you do it on a shard that has the new publish?

 

[Poo]

no, sonoma, i thought they said it leeched through to production?
i have not tried it on Origin.

oh i see where i went wrong, i saw Baja and forgot that Baja got rolled into the the experimental shard cluster!

 

[Mama Faith]

It wasn't just the pup that got pushed from the Belfry; I'm used to that. I was standing behind my pup and suddenly, my whole body was being pushed back and I was making noises as if I'd slipped on ice. I was dumped to the floor and my cu followed right after. I'll be curious to see if they broke it when intending to fix bugs. I guarantee that if the changes aren't fixed and it goes world-wide as is, you'll be reading about it quite a bit in UHall.

 

[Pawain]

It wasn't just the pup that got pushed from the Belfry; I'm used to that. I was standing behind my pup and suddenly, my whole body was being pushed back and I was making noises as if I'd slipped on ice. I was dumped to the floor and my cu followed right after. I'll be curious to see if they broke it when intending to fix bugs. I guarantee that if the changes aren't fixed and it goes world-wide as is, you'll be reading about it quite a bit in UHall.

That's a given. But we need to also do that on the uo forum. Making our play time annoying is not the way to keep the game solvent.

 

[Basara]

They need to realize the Belfry thing is actually an ANTI-FIX.

There's ALREADY way too many bypassing the Drakes COMPLETELY, and using their pets' pathfinding and commands to get the pets on the upper level, without the tamers EVER going up top. It's also one of the things contributing to the pet loyalty declines.

If anything, the opposite needs to be done, and a way given to get pets and players up there AFTER a single mandatory drake fight (especially if knocked off - say a 30 minute, reuseable feather), instead of making the event the current classic Highway Worker joke (one man working, 6 men watching), or something that will be severely compromised with the current changes, causing nearly everyone to avoid the intended process for a harder, but simpler, process.

 

[Gidge]

Anytime I have gone to the fountain, we have always used all 4 spigots and drains. Now whats odd is one time I tried by myself and completed one path and completed the second path and the whole water path poofed, told me it was wrong and a hurricane elemental popped up and proceeded to pummel me. I didn't know there could even be a "wrong path" so with needing to use all 4 drains now, I wonder if they could still be connected incorrectly.

 

[Basara]

Anytime I have gone to the fountain, we have always used all 4 spigots and drains. Now whats odd is one time I tried by myself and completed one path and completed the second path and the whole water path poofed, told me it was wrong and a hurricane elemental popped up and proceeded to pummel me. I didn't know there could even be a "wrong path" so with needing to use all 4 drains now, I wonder if they could still be connected incorrectly.

The "incorrect" bit is usually where a piece poofs on you right before you turn it on, or if you have a piece turned wrong and don't realize it (often the result of an ele dying in the path you planned, and you not realizing there's a piece not connecting that you didn't place).

 

[Gidge]

The "incorrect" bit is usually where a piece poofs on you right before you turn it on, or if you have a piece turned wrong and don't realize it (often the result of an ele dying in the path you planned, and you not realizing there's a piece not connecting that you didn't place).

Thank you that makes me feel so much better! I just hated that I completed it and got attacked because I made it go to the wrong drain. lol I was like, how the heck and I suppose to know what drain!

 

[GarthGrey]

It sounds to me like once again, some players who have nothing to do but play UO all day and night, complained again that someone else was doing something in game that they didn't like, so they sent a personal email about it, and of course the "fix" was to ruin it for everyone else, including those that don't have the luxury of playing UO all day and night, so pretty much business as usual.

 

[The Slug]

It sounds to me like once again, some players who have nothing to do but play UO all day and night, complained again that someone else was doing something in game that they didn't like, so they sent a personal email about it, and of course the "fix" was to ruin it for everyone else, including those that don't have the luxury of playing UO all day and night, so pretty much business as usual.

Replace the "some players" with "owners of RMT sites who cannot stand the idea of the Great Unwashed acquiring items on their own" and I'd agree

 

[Starry Icye]

Did you do it on a shard that has the new publish?

Are you playing again?

 

[Laura_Gold]

They also "fix" things that no one was complaining about, e.g.
the swing timer reset for certain chivalry and bushido moves.
That one was so pancaked up that Bleak didn't even put it in the release notes... until people on Stratics started complaining about it.
(And the lose-a-swing is still there at it's still pancaked up, since November 2015.)

 

[Uriah Heep]

the Great Unwashed

LOL Don't think I've seen that phrase since Blackie Sherrod died...

 

[Uriah Heep]

They also "fix" things that no one was complaining about, e.g.
the swing timer reset for certain chivalry and bushido moves.
That one was so pancaked up that Bleak didn't even put it in the release notes... until people on Stratics started complaining about it.
(And the lose-a-swing is still there at it's still pancaked up, since November 2015.)

I have to agree, I also think a lot of the complaining on the things that get fixed aren't public complaints. Could it be that it doesn't matter whats wrong or how many don't like something, but who it is that complains? I used to laugh at such notions, but not anymore

 

[Pawain]

It sounds to me like once again, some players who have nothing to do but play UO all day and night, complained again that someone else was doing something in game that they didn't like, so they sent a personal email about it, and of course the "fix" was to ruin it for everyone else, including those that don't have the luxury of playing UO all day and night, so pretty much business as usual.

 

[railshot]

UO is a sandbox. People find ways to do things that Devs did not even dream of. If Devs keep fixing/nerfing creative things, there will be nothing left but grind. Shadowguard is a prime example. The rooms are not difficult. They are not fun. They are just an annoying, grindy time sink preventing people from non-stop chaining the other grindy time-sink - the roof. While I understand the Devs' intention to limit the legendary and artifact farming, the insane grind is not a good way to go about it.
I really hate dailys. They killed more than one MMO for me, mosty because logging in starts feeling like coming to work at 8am. But at this point I am thinking - if Devs are so intent on limiting access to the roof that they are making the rooms grindier, just remove the room requirement and make roof a daily. It will prevent abuse from the scripters, and will let casual players hold on to their sanity a bit longer.
Or, here's another crazy idea - keep the rooms. But go through all the peerless and other 100 bosses we have, up their difficulty if needed, and make their loot comparable to the roof. At least there will be some variety in content worth doing.

 

[Grace of Minoc]

Wouldn't it be great if not just the Boss, but any creature in that category (or even area that it spawns in to)
have a scaling chance drop of something really nice!

Even if it is super rare, I don't know, like the chance of catching a legendary fish? har

 

[Max Blackoak]

Wouldn't it be great if not just the Boss, but any creature in that category (or even area that it spawns in to)
have a scaling chance drop of something really nice!

Even if it is super rare, I don't know, like the chance of catching a legendary fish? har

this totally wouldn't be abused by afk scripters killing orcs or similarly easy to kill stuff out in the middle of nowhere...

 

[Mama Faith]

I took Pawain's advice and posted about these changes on the UO forums. I really feel that if these awful changes aren't reversed, Shadowguard will go the way of Doom, for many of us.

 

[petemage]

But go through all the peerless and other 100 bosses we have, up their difficulty if needed, and make their loot comparable to the roof. At least there will be some variety in content worth doing.

Please don't make the current team touch any peerless. They won't make them any more fun or the like. They will just screw a lot of viable templates and make them single template encounters where you better bring 3 other accounts of yours than 3 friends of yours.

 

[drcossack]

I took Pawain's advice and posted about these changes on the UO forums. I really feel that if these awful changes aren't reversed, Shadowguard will go the way of Doom, for many of us.

or you could not play like Pawain and actually bring more than tamers to post-Publish Roof. The encounters themselves (annoying mechanics aside) aren't the problem. It's the templates you bring (tamers exclusively) + the refusal to use what's efficient (Sampires), because "it's not fun to play them." btw, Doom and Shadowguard are COMPLETELY different. An entire cycle of Doom takes maybe 15 minutes to complete (most time spent on Fleshrenderer and Dark Father), while Shadowguard (pre-Pub 100) is over an hour start to finish. If people aren't using the templates needed to simplify their Doom runs, it's on them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the changes either, and I can't say how many Shadowguard runs I'll be doing as a result. But I will find a way to deal with what's changed, because it's not that big a deal.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Please don't make the current team touch any peerless. They won't make them any more fun or the like. They will just screw a lot of viable templates

QFT! And make it even grindier...as that is the mindset of this team.

 

[Basara]

LOL Don't think I've seen that phrase since Blackie Sherrod died...

Given that we're talking about obsessed gamers, wouldn't the people they'd be complaining against be the "Great WASHED"???

 

[Ender]

QFT! And make it even grindier...as that is the mindset of this team.

Double the amount of keys needed and everyone needs their own set?

In exchange the crimson cincture has an extra 2 Dex, and the drop rate is reduced by 90%!

 

[MalagAste]

One more thing most people won't do leaving less and less for people to do and when that happens... people have less and less reason to log in ... Just my opinion...

But hearing about these changes makes it far more annoying... if this is going to be the way then I foresee an end to doing shadowguard...

They need to up the drop on the feathers then if that is going to be the case as it'll be nearly impossible to get more than 1 person on the platform at the belfry... and it'll take too long to do...

Also, the fountain is enough of a nightmare it doesn't need to be more so. Why people think you have to make things so difficult is beyond me... there is a point at which making it more challenging makes it more fun and a point where it makes it FAR less fun... this sounds to me like we've crossed into the far less fun part.

I actually enjoyed doing the rooms. So my thought is this is far less fun. I rather think the armory was about right for challenging to fun ratio... with 2 to 5 people, it's fun... Always found the worst room to be the bar... as someone who doesn't drink normally, I find it annoying my character would choose to do so.

 

[Laura_Gold]

Someone mentioned making the feathers be more than single use and lasting 30 minutes.
I'll drink to that.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Someone mentioned making the feathers be more than single use and lasting 30 minutes.
I'll drink to that.

But then it would not be a grind.. and we know how that goes

 

[Larisa]

On average I get a feather either every time I summon the drakes or every other time...I think the drop rate is fine...they could last a bit longer though but not by much.

 

[sirion]

Belfry!

Your char now gets FROZEN for THREE seconds by the dragon EVERY TIME you get pushed (and you get pushed every time) and that means you WILL get pushed down the tower EVERY TIME, even before you can swing a few hits.

This is a SHOW-STOPPER, at least for melee warriors. @Kyronix

And I've read both forums and I see a lot of feedback that says this was "intended" -- that is just non-sense from people who have NO IDEA.

 

[drcossack]

Belfry!

Your char now gets FROZEN for THREE seconds by the dragon EVERY TIME you get pushed (and you get pushed every time) and that means you WILL get pushed down the tower EVERY TIME, even before you can swing a few hits.

This is a SHOW-STOPPER, at least for melee warriors. @Kyronix

And I've read both forums and I see a lot of feedback that says this was "intended" -- that is just non-sense from people who have NO IDEA.

It's not just players. Pets do it too, because I just dual-cliented the Belfry with 2 White Wyrms. Whenever one was getting pushed, they'd freeze completely until the GD was done removing them. Prior to the publish they'd keep attacking for quite some time, because they weren't easily pushed off, due to not having to deal with the Fire Breath casting delay.

 

[Laura_Gold]

So why the pancake would they intend that?
Oh, I forgot. Our Devs DO NOT PLAY AS THEY INTEND US TO PLAY.

 

[Tabby Kapak]

Anytime I have gone to the fountain, we have always used all 4 spigots and drains. Now whats odd is one time I tried by myself and completed one path and completed the second path and the whole water path poofed, told me it was wrong and a hurricane elemental popped up and proceeded to pummel me. I didn't know there could even be a "wrong path" so with needing to use all 4 drains now, I wonder if they could still be connected incorrectly.

The first time we did the fountain a month ago, we actually connected the Northernmost Spigot to the East Drain.... Causing us to have to go around that pipeline aaaall the way to connect the Northern drain to the other spigot on the east side. But we don't understand what people mean with not needing all four drains before? We always had to connect all drains before it would say we had bestet that part of the tower?

lways found the worst room to be the bar... as someone who doesn't drink normally, I find it annoying my character would choose to do so.

You don't have to use the bottles? We never do anymore, since the drinking empties all your mana and thus ruins the speed of things in there. And the "Whooo it's hot" is funny the first time, but becomes annoying REAL fast. Our pets deal with pirates quicker than bottles do.

 

[MalagAste]

The first time we did the fountain a month ago, we actually connected the Northernmost Spigot to the East Drain.... Causing us to have to go around that pipeline aaaall the way to connect the Northern drain to the other spigot on the east side. But we don't understand what people mean with not needing all four drains before? We always had to connect all drains before it would say we had bestet that part of the tower?


You don't have to use the bottles? We never do anymore, since the drinking empties all your mana and thus ruins the speed of things in there. And the "Whooo it's hot" is funny the first time, but becomes annoying REAL fast. Our pets deal with pirates quicker than bottles do.

Kinda like the concept of not throwing apples you don't know... feeding them to your dog... I've always thrown the bottles but it's true you don't have to even use them at all and yes the idea that my character would actually drink that is just wrong.

 

[Pawain]

On average I get a feather either every time I summon the drakes or every other time...I think the drop rate is fine...they could last a bit longer though but not by much.

Sounds like they fixed those bugs in Shadowguard really nice, I bought 3 spare Jumus and Robes, so ill never have to go again. Watch those prices go up. Was fun taking new players there. Not going to now. I play for fun not to be annoyed at stupid changes that were not needed.

 

[Larisa]

The first time we did the fountain a month ago, we actually connected the Northernmost Spigot to the East Drain.... Causing us to have to go around that pipeline aaaall the way to connect the Northern drain to the other spigot on the east side. But we don't understand what people mean with not needing all four drains before? We always had to connect all drains before it would say we had bestet that part of the tower?

This is the way you can complete it without having to use the West and North drains...well that's how it was before Publish 100.

 

[Tabby Kapak]

Oh! Never even thought of that haha! Just... 4 spigots, and 4 drains... it felt logical to combine one of each heh. Thanks for this clear explanation Larisa! Well, even connecting all 4, we never got close to the time running out. Not even when we had to go all the way round on our first go, heh. (The fountain is the one place we use 2 chars max.)

 

[Gidge]

We had started doing the fountain with 4 people recently and although it seems overwhelming, with two dedicated killer and 2 dedicated builders and the killers building when they see one that will fit, works really well. We had one spigot tonight that was like 100000000 miles away from the drain.

 

[CovenantX]

View attachment 83470

This is the way you can complete it without having to use the West and North drains...well that's how it was before Publish 100.

There was a much faster method that I suspect (I'm 100% sure) was the main focus of the "fix".
Unfortunately, your method is "fixed" because the devs don't take the time to fix the actual bug.

Where you could do a single canal to one drain. I have a recorded run where the fountain took me (solo with 9 clients) under 4 minutes. (3:57 to be exact) to complete.

Spoiler

I'm partially disappointed by the Shadowguard bug fixes (the fountain mostly), but it's because of the way they "fixed" it, but I'm not surprised it was fixed.

The Entire shadowguard process shouldn't take much longer than it did with the bugs because of another "bug" fix, though the end result would end up taking nearly twice as long. (finishing pvp suits & farming gold to assist in completing those suits....)

It's ok though, shadowguard will have less people farming it overall, which would make the drops become more valuable (If mass amounts of people don't quit playing because of this?) unless of course the entire point to these fixes was to increase sales for third-party sites (ohhhh the conspiracy theory).

Every item's price in UO is where it is because people are bored A F with the content so they don't want to farm it.. the "Fun Factor" only lasts so long before the content becomes a Grind, which makes it feel more like a job you pay your employer so you can do the work.

 

[Larisa]

The WAY they fixed it?? They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

It takes a lot of time to find these stupid exploits and figure out how to cheat the system....take that time and do things the right way..my opinion anyway.

 

[Fridgster]

The WAY they fixed it?? They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

It takes a lot of time to find these stupid exploits and figure out how to cheat the system....take that time and do things the right way..my opinion anyway.

With all due respect @Larisa the fact it takes the years to find these bugs/exploits is insane. Almost bordering incompetence.

* Because of how long it takes it seems like it is more of a nerf/additional grind than a bug fix.

 

[Uriah Heep]

The WAY they fixed it?? They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

It takes a lot of time to find these stupid exploits and figure out how to cheat the system....take that time and do things the right way..my opinion anyway.

Wait.
No one was cheating, nor was anyone exploiting.
They were playing within the mechanics and coding given to them by the devs.

So quit accusing people of being cheaters unless they actually are doing something that no one else can do ingame.

 

[sirion]

>>> The WAY they fixed it?? They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

THAT is a very BIG and vague accusation, and THAT is exactly why the dev team (that doesn't play this game) gets DERAILED FURTHER!

Now if anyone would care to list ALL the "problem description" specifically for each room, MAYBE we'll start narrowing down our gaps of what needs to be fixed. But nope, so far I've only read some individuals talking big as if they are ABOVE the player-base. AMAZING.

 

[sirion]

So lets try to compile the "BUG LIST" for Shadowguard for everyone:

Bar: Not that I know of.

Orchard:
1. Feed apple to pets/paroxy dragon (IF you really consider that an exploit or bug)

Armory: Not that I know of.

Fountain:
1. Yes Exploit: You only need to complete one section with some very creative trick. Surfaced in recent months, at least from what I was told.

Belfry: Not that I know of. You kill drakes, get key, jump on tower, kill dragon under rubber-band effect.

Roof:
1. Yes exploit: double boss spawn for double arty drop. Likely existed since DAY-1.
2. Bug: Boss does not spawn mobs on pets. Existed since DAY-1 lucky for you tamers.

SO LETS REVIEW AGAIN. What was the problem with Belfry again? Because some tamers are jealous of sampires' efficiency.

>>>They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

Now lets compare those specifics against this statement again. Which part makes you think this big statement justifies the actual issues???

PS. I have done some 300+ rounds without using any of these. All you need is the right buddies that can work together with you. EASY. DONE.

 

[CovenantX]

The WAY they fixed it?? They fixed it so you couldn't cheat or exploit the system and actually have to do it the way it was meant to be done...

It takes a lot of time to find these stupid exploits and figure out how to cheat the system....take that time and do things the right way..my opinion anyway.

I'm not going to deny it was an "Exploit", I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "cheat" though. you don't need any illegal programs to do any of these things, but since the game isn't policed very well, I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were people using "cheats" in conjunction with these "Exploits". -they likely make real $ off of it, why wouldn't they? especially if they can get away with it... *sigh*


Yes, the Way they fixed it prevents you from doing it the way you demonstrated in an earlier post, you still completed four canals and it can still take more than 30 minutes to finish the canals doing it that way, especially if you're trying to solo it with a single character. which is now essentially impossible.

All they had to do was prevent you from receiving credit 2-4x on the same side of a drain. it would have been specifically targeting the "exploit" if they had done so, But, instead they screw it up for everyone else, which makes them work harder to get the same rewards.


It doesn't always take a long time to find these things.

IMO "the right way" is the Efficient (without illegal program use) or Fun way in my book, and both ways are often very different.