Returning Player Feedback: Changes needed if Broadsword wants Endless Journey to revitalize the game

[Okami]

As a returning player applying refreshed eyes to the game, I wanted to share some feedback after having played for a few weeks. For reference, I played fairly heavily from T2A until Age of Shadows, eventually departing for City of Heroes.

Having returned has been a bit of a shock as the new Power Scroll system and retuned dungeons rendered my character fairly ineffectual in PvM, and even had the misfortune of mistakenly tried a simple graveyard run to try out my character. During the halloween event. It didn't end well.

One thing I will not suggest, is any kind of "Rollbacks" to current systems. It's counterproductive, it won't happen, and after adjusting, I don't think it's necessary. I'm sure everyone's heard or read similar suggestions countless times.

However, due to the changes over the age of the game, a fundamental flaw has developed, as the game has been retooled to cater to the new 120 skill standard. There is a massive gap in available gameplay from skill levels 50-120, and the game's aging mechanics don't make that range of skill entertaining for any longer than a few hours at most, yet the time to skill gain through that gap can take much, much, longer. The two aspects combined can cause quick burnout during the first crucial weeks of a returning player's time.

The anti-virtue dungeons badly need a balance pass and a tune down to a 70-100 skill appropriate range. They're currently far too empty for solo play, and their rewards aren't desirable enough to bring in larger groups, so making them a touch less challenging can encourage any new players or returning players to try them out before moving on to more difficult content.

Another major continuing flaw is that there are skills that lack any practical use, as the game has evolved past them. These skills could also be used to help address the gameplay gap if upgraded properly.

For example, Pairing Taste ID with Cooking to create special buff foods that help accelerate skill gain or grant other temporary effects to help equal odds against higher skill creatures. Have Cooking make the food and it give a short term buff (even possibly a 0 second one), and then having a higher Taste ID extend the length of time for that buff, so that having a GM Taste ID would grant a fairly useful mid-term buff.

Camping could be upgraded to help pad Strength/Dexterity/Int after a stay, with a higher camping skill granting a slightly larger buff or lengthier buff after staying long enough to trigger, with it still being capped to the normal character level caps.

Begging could be given an alternate function akin to the "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for life", with begging being able to be used to target specific NPC types for temporary skill gains.

Forensic Identification could be upgraded to an "Analysis" type skill, where a player could target a monster and have a similar gump to the Animal Lore one, where a player could assess the creature's skill levels, and this, paired with Anatomy and Eval Intelligence, could be used to mimic other game's threat assessment, as a more active use.

Tracking could be used to generate a similar, smaller buff, to Enemy of One, adding an extra layer of effectiveness to the skill.

In general the intent for all of the above suggestions is to possibly encourage developing characters to actually go out and be more active, and with buffs that focus towards newer/lower skilled characters, along with a balance retune for unused content, could help address what's currently a near fatal flaw to the game.

Just some thoughts, feel free to add in any opinions or judgements, especially if I'm overlooking some skill change that may have occurred and didn't get picked up on UO guide.

 

[celticus]

Good post, good thoughts, I hope the devs see this..

 

[ShriNayne]

Nice post with some interesting ideas! Many people have asked for useless skills to be made relevant again and you have some good suggestions there.
I totally agree with you, after new characters do the quests in New Haven they feel a bit abandoned, the 'revamp' of some of the old dungeons was totally detrimental to new players and was a really bad move.
They could have put those new dungeon ideas anywhere, instead they took away the best places for lower skilled characters to hunt and raise their skills.
The mine at New Haven seems to have been thrown together very quickly without much thought and it's not great. I've heard a lot of new and returning players complain about how bad it is compared to old Despise.

 

[Uvtha]

As a returning player applying refreshed eyes to the game, I wanted to share some feedback after having played for a few weeks. For reference, I played fairly heavily from T2A until Age of Shadows, eventually departing for City of Heroes.

Having returned has been a bit of a shock as the new Power Scroll system and retuned dungeons rendered my character fairly ineffectual in PvM, and even had the misfortune of mistakenly tried a simple graveyard run to try out my character. During the halloween event. It didn't end well.

One thing I will not suggest, is any kind of "Rollbacks" to current systems. It's counterproductive, it won't happen, and after adjusting, I don't think it's necessary. I'm sure everyone's heard or read similar suggestions countless times.

However, due to the changes over the age of the game, a fundamental flaw has developed, as the game has been retooled to cater to the new 120 skill standard. There is a massive gap in available gameplay from skill levels 50-120, and the game's aging mechanics don't make that range of skill entertaining for any longer than a few hours at most, yet the time to skill gain through that gap can take much, much, longer. The two aspects combined can cause quick burnout during the first crucial weeks of a returning player's time.

The anti-virtue dungeons badly need a balance pass and a tune down to a 70-100 skill appropriate range. They're currently far too empty for solo play, and their rewards aren't desirable enough to bring in larger groups, so making them a touch less challenging can encourage any new players or returning players to try them out before moving on to more difficult content.

Another major continuing flaw is that there are skills that lack any practical use, as the game has evolved past them. These skills could also be used to help address the gameplay gap if upgraded properly.

For example, Pairing Taste ID with Cooking to create special buff foods that help accelerate skill gain or grant other temporary effects to help equal odds against higher skill creatures. Have Cooking make the food and it give a short term buff (even possibly a 0 second one), and then having a higher Taste ID extend the length of time for that buff, so that having a GM Taste ID would grant a fairly useful mid-term buff.

Camping could be upgraded to help pad Strength/Dexterity/Int after a stay, with a higher camping skill granting a slightly larger buff or lengthier buff after staying long enough to trigger, with it still being capped to the normal character level caps.

Begging could be given an alternate function akin to the "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for life", with begging being able to be used to target specific NPC types for temporary skill gains.

Forensic Identification could be upgraded to an "Analysis" type skill, where a player could target a monster and have a similar gump to the Animal Lore one, where a player could assess the creature's skill levels, and this, paired with Anatomy and Eval Intelligence, could be used to mimic other game's threat assessment, as a more active use.

Tracking could be used to generate a similar, smaller buff, to Enemy of One, adding an extra layer of effectiveness to the skill.

In general the intent for all of the above suggestions is to possibly encourage developing characters to actually go out and be more active, and with buffs that focus towards newer/lower skilled characters, along with a balance retune for unused content, could help address what's currently a near fatal flaw to the game.

Just some thoughts, feel free to add in any opinions or judgements, especially if I'm overlooking some skill change that may have occurred and didn't get picked up on UO guide.

Cool ideas, but I fear the devs have already blocked out their schedule for like a year into the future.

I really agree about skills. Getting to 100 at least should be way way way easier and faster.

 

[Slayvite]

The main problem with UO is that it's an MMORPG from days gone by, now living with quest driven temporary MMO's.
The whole point of UO was that you make your own quests and such.
No walkthrus, no leading quest system untill you are "end game", just go out skill up and live in Sosaria.

Many modern MMO's suffer greatly because of this new way of playing, constantly having to raise the skill caps and introduce more and more higher end content to keep players in game.
At the same time this also damages games massively as players become used to "quick content" and "skill buffs" instead of learning the skills, thus you end up with one of the major problems of modern MMO's.......
Far too many "end game" chars with no idea how to actually play the game, just look at any new MMO and it's raid style dungeons, players being kicked from groups constantly because they are useless even though they have the best gear and are capped out ect.

UO needs to stay as far away from that mindset as possible, we all know there is no "end game" in UO as such so to hurry new players along to it is to hasten their departure from the game for lack of "end game" content.
It's not hard to skill up in UO, just check out one of the many Guides on "how to".
About the only skill that is still a PITA is Spellweaving and even that can be taken from 0 to 120 in a week.

Unfortunatly graveyards were enhanced with special mobs for the Halloween content and as such, not new playe friendly for the month.....it's not always like this.
You just gotta learn what you can and cannot take on, such is life.
The recent issue with powerscrolls is ....unfortunate and down to the Devs not thinking the pet situation thru clearly.

Let me stress though, you DO NOT need to be 120 in everything to compete with about 90% of this game, you just need to "learn" how to tackle each mob differently. They are not like other games where you just whack them with macros until they are dead. Go up against certain "easy" mobs in the wrong gear and using the wrong skill and even a Vet will die quickly. Just ask anyone how many times they hit the wrong button and instantly knew they had just activated a "**** storm"

Do not fear Death as it is a very great part of UO and with insurance you really don't need to wory about losing your gear anymore either.
I do agree that many skills should have evolved over the years but with such a small set of Devs with somewhat limited knowledge of the old CC coding....it's just not gonna happen.

nb, if you really want to get to GM fast though, just do like the younger generations do now and go buy a Mythic token or 2 to set 5 skill to 90 instantly.....waste of money if you ask me though

 

[Okami]

Nowhere in my post did I mention a fear of death, and I understand it's part in the grand scheme of things in UO, and IMO, insurance was a REALLY bad idea because of it.

I also know guides exist on what you should "macro repeat" to level to GM, I was a fairly long term player, I'm using a 5 X GM right now. Which is why I'm curious, what content should a 50-100 be doing? Because the old standbys of Shame and Wrong are near impossible to solo, but convincing a player to come with is near impossible, because they are so far overtuned, difficulty wise.

My main point is that UO actively discourages playing itself, and any potential new/returning player is going to be given advice to check UO guides, which doesnt give any suggestions about what to do, it just tells you the best way to "Definitely not afk" Macro something to GM.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

I experienced a large learning curve when I came back. Did you know there was a casino? lol As said there are guides for everything and most can be found with a search on Stratics. Stick around, learn more about the new systems and everyday things get easier and easier. Most shards would be eager to help a player get started with decent equipment that can be built upon. The key to it all is it's not a race to the finish line but a journey. It would really be a kinda lame game if you were maxed out and uber in a couple weeks. You'd find yourself playing a lot less if that were the case. Enjoy getting your butt kicked for now because being a God and owning everything isn't all that much fun either. Although it's better than getting ur butt kicked There's a path to take. Getting information on exactly what that path is to achieve your goals has always been the hard part of UO. Takes some digging but worth the time spent. Welcome back and I hope things work out for ya

 

[Amber Witch]

You've come up with some interesting ideas here. And out of the box. I hope the Devs read your post. Thanks for taking the time to think things through and post them.
One thing that helps with training new-ish chars these days is to tag along with a group or another person to fight stuff. You're not doing it solo, which as you say is very challenging to near impossible, so the spawn isn't always targeting you and you can still get gains, heals, rez's, etc. Another aspect is that you're learning how to do the dungeon. We all have our little tweaks on what we kill first, how we kill it and the approach and that can be learned from others too. Just a thought.

And the big thing is, at least for me and those people that I enjoy playing the game with, don't forget to enjoy the game as it is. There's so much diversity and challenges as it is.

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

Seems you have found too many flaws in UO, please remind us why you coming back? Ohh I remember cause its now FREE........ Why would anyone who has actively played for the last 6 years have to read or hear any of the nonsense coming out your mouth?? You are correct in many aspects of the game that need a rework and new content to be developed for it to keep going on for years, but this Endless Journey crap will end up killing the game, as many people who havnt played for years will come and complain they are not in the meta of the game anymore, that their chars are crap, etc....... To all of this I just say, well you you chose to leave, so why should the game be now catered for you?? Why should this changes be implemented so that you can play, everyone who stayed wont complain about the issues you are talking ,as one, they have worked around it and got all the 120 PSes they need from grinding and hunting, Two the dungeons although they not perfect are catered exactly to the right levels, Fel despise is a great place to start to train, true you might be killed, but this game does have a PVP aspect and it should always be present, so in the case you didnt want to go Fel, you can still grind to 80 in Haven mines or shame, Shame being the 2nd dungeon you would enter from 60/80-100 or even 120 if you wanted, so the dungeons are ok as they are, you just need to grind it out and not expect an easy button for UO. And about getting a full char to 100, you can do that all in one afternoon with the non named services that this game has and that 98% of the population have used in one way or another.
You mentioned checking creatures stats, have you tried using Animal Lore? That is exactly what it does.....

Sorry if I sound salty but instead of coming and trying stuff out, you came to criticise, so I will criticise back your observations and ideas. Dont try to change a game or its mechanics if you have been away for such long. Only cause you played back in the day wont give you credit today to come in and say its all bad or should be changed. Same as I wnt have credit saying that I do play, but at least I stuck it out and adapted and worked along with no changes posts.

 

[Tina Small]

Another major continuing flaw is that there are skills that lack any practical use, as the game has evolved past them. These skills could also be used to help address the gameplay gap if upgraded properly.

For example, Pairing Taste ID with Cooking to create special buff foods that help accelerate skill gain or grant other temporary effects to help equal odds against higher skill creatures. Have Cooking make the food and it give a short term buff (even possibly a 0 second one), and then having a higher Taste ID extend the length of time for that buff, so that having a GM Taste ID would grant a fairly useful mid-term buff.

Camping could be upgraded to help pad Strength/Dexterity/Int after a stay, with a higher camping skill granting a slightly larger buff or lengthier buff after staying long enough to trigger, with it still being capped to the normal character level caps.

Begging could be given an alternate function akin to the "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for life", with begging being able to be used to target specific NPC types for temporary skill gains.

Forensic Identification could be upgraded to an "Analysis" type skill, where a player could target a monster and have a similar gump to the Animal Lore one, where a player could assess the creature's skill levels, and this, paired with Anatomy and Eval Intelligence, could be used to mimic other game's threat assessment, as a more active use.

Tracking could be used to generate a similar, smaller buff, to Enemy of One, adding an extra layer of effectiveness to the skill.

The big problem with giving some of those old skills a new use is figuring out how to cram those skills onto an existing character without having to resort to buying soulstones or claiming them as vet rewards. If the devs did something like this, I would really consider it to be just another money grab on their part. I think most players would be more interested in seeing the dev team add more ways to benefit from existing skills, e.g., for begging give you a chance to get unique rewards at different times of the year than just at Halloween.

As far as slow skill gains go, many people use Scrolls of Alacrity or Scrolls of Transcendence. It's not difficult to get the Scrolls of Transcendence from running merchant quests and just about any character can do them, or you can get them while doing champ spawns. You can get Scrolls of Alacrity from treasure chests or from the cleanup system. I have rarely resorted to using either of these myself, but some people spend millions in gold to acquire them so they can avoid the entire skill gain process. As long as both types of scrolls exist, though, I think they take a lot of the pressure off the dev team to look at how skills are gained. I think the best any of us can hope for is that when expansions are done, the dev team puts in more monsters to fight and more craftables to make to provide more variety for gaining skills. Hopefully returning players who are trying to gain in skills do not overlook newer areas like Ter Mur or Eodon for creatures to fight for skill gains.

 

[Lord Arm]

best thing for new/returning players is to join a good guild with a chat, so easy to help them. video library is needed on uo.com. . About the useless skills, good ideas. new players have issues getting started on picking skills. ive seen many new players pick fletching to go with their archery. they get pissed when they find out fletching is not needed to go with archery. some have thought the arrow prices are too high. they go and kill things in haven and run out of arrows and gold and cant fight. some cant repair stuff because they cant find venders with repair deeds. there are a lot more things to think about concerning new players.

 

[Okami]

Seems you have found too many flaws in UO, please remind us why you coming back? Ohh I remember cause its now FREE........

Just a point I'd like to make. It's not free, and I'm currently resubscribed. Endless Journey doesn't start until sometime next year, and that's not set in stone. The whole intent of a free to play push on the business side is to encourage more spending/possible subscriptions, and I was making recommendations on how to improve that possibility.

I came back, because an old friend invited me back, and I'm currently relearning the game and thus exposed to the flaws the game presents to a new player, and was trying to convey my opinion.

Hope you have a great day sir.

 

[croy6325]

I agree 110%. I too just came back a few days ago and am absolutely loving the game. Nostalgia is what brought me back, my best memories are from when I started in 99. The game still has amazing potential, but seriously needs to be more new player friendly. If the game goes f2p and new players have areas where they can grow and make their mark, I believe it will bring new life into the game.

 

[Tabby Kapak]

We feel that despite Despise having changed and Shame being harder as a training ground for new players, there are still enough places to bridge the "gap" between Haven and new Shame. Think of aaaalllll the lizardmen in the Valley of the Sleeping Dragon for example? Nice for a good Spined leather supply. Not sure about the brigands South of Old Haven, but could be a change of flavour. The Ratmen in the Cavern of the Discarded are also great practice material to get high enough, and collect imbuing ingredients in the process! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone! Even the Troglodytes seem to have had their wrestling reduced somewhat as we remember them to be for the endrush, but now many seem around skill level 70. We also use the Solen infiltrators and the queens to practice melee skills above 90, helps gather the zoogi so again double the joy. Just ask around when you are not sure where to go or what to do. We are sure plenty of people will have other suggestions when you ask?

 

[Okami]

We feel that despite Despise having changed and Shame being harder as a training ground for new players, there are still enough places to bridge the "gap" between Haven and new Shame. Think of aaaalllll the lizardmen in the Valley of the Sleeping Dragon for example? Nice for a good Spined leather supply. Not sure about the brigands South of Old Haven, but could be a change of flavour. The Ratmen in the Cavern of the Discarded are also great practice material to get high enough, and collect imbuing ingredients in the process! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone! Even the Troglodytes seem to have had their wrestling reduced somewhat as we remember them to be for the endrush, but now many seem around skill level 70. We also use the Solen infiltrators and the queens to practice melee skills above 90, helps gather the zoogi so again double the joy. Just ask around when you are not sure where to go or what to do. We are sure plenty of people will have other suggestions when you ask?

Honestly, this is lovely advice, and I will be glad to check these areas personally. An issue however is there is no way to determine this in game, and you can't expect new/returning players to wander onto a third party forum. Not in that crucial first 20-30 minutes they're willing to try the game anyway.

 

[Acid Rain]

For reference,I played fairly heavily from T2A until Age of Shadows, eventually departing for City of Heroes.
Having returned has been a bit of a shock as the new Power Scroll system and returned dungeons rendered my character fairly ineffectual in PvM

For reference : T2A release Oct 1st 1998. Power Scrolls added to game July 12-22nd 2002. Age of Shadows release Feb 11th 2003.

If you played until Age of Shadows then power scrolls should be nothing new to you, just sayin'.
The only new thing power scroll related is the pet revamp but you never mention that.

One thing I will not suggest, is any kind of "Rollbacks" to current systems. It's counterproductive, it won't happen, and after adjusting, I don't think it's necessary. I'm sure everyone's heard or read similar suggestions countless times.

THANK YOU, indeed we have all seen those abortive posts.

There is a massive gap in available gameplay from skill levels 50-120, and the game's aging mechanics don't make that range of skill entertaining for any longer than a few hours at most, yet the time to skill gain through that gap can take much, much, longer.

From 50-120 is basically the entire game from start to finish(in skills) considering you can start a brand new character at 50. So paraphrased your saying, "The entire game (up until end game for skills) is boring the crap out of me as it takes more then a few hours to get all 120 skills capped out." I don't think most casual gamers get burnt out with the idea that from start to finish(of skills) on a character may take more then a few hours. I can't think of a single quality game that caps out character skills in a few hours.

There are TONS of places to gain skills of all level in UO. I suspect you have not found them b/c locating them takes more then 5 mins.

Pairing Taste ID with Cooking to create special buff foods that help accelerate skill gain

We have Alacrity Scrolls and Scrolls of Transcendence. This game does not need to "help accelerate skill gains" anymore then currently available. Most skills are already pretty much a joke training to 120.

Another major continuing flaw is that there are skills that lack any practical use, as the game has evolved past them.

There are 58 different skills in UO & you pick arguably 4 of the least used skills in the game to illustrate a 'major' flaw? Really ???
No, I don't want my DEV team working on your 'major continuing flaw' when they need to/should be working elsewhere.
I would keep going but I'm honestly having a hard time believing what your saying, all things considered.

From my perspective, the bulk of your criticisms/suggestions are based on skills gains taking far to long & a lack of locale to train.
I do not agree at all w/ this notion. I thank you for voicing your thoughts after joining Stratics 3 days ago & look forward to sharing debates

 

[Acid Rain]

Honestly, this is lovely advice, and I will be glad to check these areas personally. An issue however is there is no way to determine this in game, and you can't expect new/returning players to wander onto a third party forum. Not in that crucial first 20-30 minutes they're willing to try the game anyway.

But there is a way to determine this in game, its called exploration. Exploration of a HUGE virtual world is what many players join to experience.

Most players will spend more then 30 minutes downloading then installing & patching the game. I would suggest your 'crucial first 20-30 minutes'
doesn't exist for the vast majority of gamers. If someone is willing to try the game, logic dictates they'd allow more then 20-30 minutes.
Unless they're a child as 5-6 year olds generally have a 10-15 minute attention span.

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

As far as saying this being a Third Party forum, ask anyone in General chat what the forum is for the game and tell me how many times someone says anything other than stratics



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tabby Kapak]

Honestly, this is lovely advice, and I will be glad to check these areas personally.

Word of warning, as we realised today that we forgot to mention the Lizardmen are part of the Sleeping Dragon Champion Spawn, the first level. If that has been bumped to 3rd or 4th level, of course it gets harder and could be deadly for new or returning players.
We guess the in game help chat is a good source for information, not sure if that is a clear option for new or returning players?

 

[Mervyn]

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for life",

I couldn't have said it better, Love a good bible quote.