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Don't matter, it was just a re-hued eagle that I've wanted for near 20 years, ever since I got my first set of Phoenix armour.
If they launch something then completely change the way it looks, then they should give us the option or give us a refund in my eyes.
They tested it, they decided it was good enough to launch with revamp then a few weeks later they change their minds? erm...nope.
If they launch something then completely change the way it looks, then they should give us the option or give us a refund in my eyes.
They tested it, they decided it was good enough to launch with revamp then a few weeks later they change their minds? erm...nope.
Ok you sold me I am joining the phoenix revolt!
I have played since Beta and I am constantly amazed that when new items, like the new tames, are placed into the game, the PVP crowd always complains about what they feel is unfair to them. I would not mind their complaints until their complaints effect changes to the game that affect my MVP play style. They have an entire facet for their play style, Felucia. Why must the Devs change things to accommodate the PVP crowd at the expense of us that play MVP. The changes to the Phoenix are to appease the PVP crowd only. I am not against PVP but it is not my play style yet it appears that the Devs only try to accommodate their wishes at our expense. If the PVP group had gone to Test and seen what was being changed they may have said something then. Instead it is only after the changes go live,and I have tamed several Phoenix that their complaints stimulate the Devs to make changes for apparently their play style only. I begin to feel that all the money I pay to play this game is becoming a waste. Confine the changes for PVP to Felucia and leave my playing experience alone. I miss my Phoenix. I am really getting tired of the unfairness of the game in the bias toward PVP only.
Yep sums it up pretty well.
Except the part where it's all because of the Pvpers.
The devs have already demonstrated they can make changes to things specifically for pvp that have minimal or no effects on pvm... It's not the fault of the "pvper" that the devs don't use the correct solutions to fix whatever problems occur because a "pvper" found it... obviously, the Testing phase isn't long enough if it makes to live shards and pvpers find it, Or the people testing these things don't care how it negatively affects a pvper's play style... Don't blame pvpers because you missed something game-breaking. Edit: This isn't directed at you specifically, It's a general statement... if it's found on TC1 and reported, there's no excuse for it to be published live before it's fixed.
What did they change with the phoenix?
Movement Speed : still faster than most pets (This is what pvpers asked for, a movement speed reduction)
Starting Base damage: from 25-25 down to 20-25 (pvpers didn't asked for this, don't think anyone asked for this ? )
the sprite: from legacy version to Eodon version (pvpers didn't asked for this)
*All Pets
Dismount special move cannot dismount targets unless the tamer is already dismounted. (pvpers asked for this, yet it doesn't have an effect on pvm anyway, why would it matter?... It doesn't)
...Half the people here on stratics don't even know what they're talking about.
Aye... I don't think pvpers really want to get killed by a rainbow chicken either. Every pvp I know keeps every relevant life bar up most of the time.... and as the eagle cannot be mounted... it's life bar would stay up until dead. The classic phoenix just looks cool. I mean... I don't see why they didn't change the swoop to a purple Barnie as well?
I know there are some who like the new phoenix... and it's cool at the Turtle spawn... But that thing at the Turtle spawn is not a phoenix; it's just named that. It's a new dinosaur bird. Everyone in UO *knows* the phoenix is the red flame/aura bird in the passage above Delucia... not the giant turkey at the Turtle spawn. Leave both styles.... make both tamable.... but please bring back our phoenix!!!!
Dismount changes were understandable... and the speed understandable. But why the extra that nobody wanted????? That's what most of my posts were about b/c I heard they were changing the phoenix bird into a dinosaur. Common guys, change it back and everyone will breath a sigh of relieve. Better yet, make everyone happy and keep them both? Put a tamable dinosaur bird somewhere with the dinosaurs.....
I know there are some who like the new phoenix... and it's cool at the Turtle spawn... But that thing at the Turtle spawn is not a phoenix; it's just named that. It's a new dinosaur bird. Everyone in UO *knows* the phoenix is the red flame/aura bird in the passage above Delucia... not the giant turkey at the Turtle spawn. Leave both styles.... make both tamable.... but please bring back our phoenix!!!!
Dismount changes were understandable... and the speed understandable. But why the extra that nobody wanted????? That's what most of my posts were about b/c I heard they were changing the phoenix bird into a dinosaur. Common guys, change it back and everyone will breath a sigh of relieve. Better yet, make everyone happy and keep them both? Put a tamable dinosaur bird somewhere with the dinosaurs.....
I'm sorry but a crimson eagle is NOT a phoenix... were that eagle colored blaze I might accept that it's a phoenix... but saying a crimson Eagle is a phoenix is as stupid as calling a white horse a unicorn... insults both unicorns and white horses.
The old graphics were a lame excuse and lazy way to add a mob without putting in any real effort. End of Story.
Except the part where it's all because of the Pvpers.
The devs have already demonstrated they can make changes to things specifically for pvp that have minimal or no effects on pvm... It's not the fault of the "pvper" that the devs don't use the correct solutions to fix whatever problems occur because a "pvper" found it... obviously, the Testing phase isn't long enough if it makes to live shards and pvpers find it, Or the people testing these things don't care how it negatively affects a pvper's play style... Don't blame pvpers because you missed something game-breaking. Edit: This isn't directed at you specifically, It's a general statement... if it's found on TC1 and reported, there's no excuse for it to be published live before it's fixed.
What did they change with the phoenix?
Movement Speed : still faster than most pets (This is what pvpers asked for, a movement speed reduction)
Starting Base damage: from 25-25 down to 20-25 (pvpers didn't asked for this, don't think anyone asked for this ? )
the sprite: from legacy version to Eodon version (pvpers didn't asked for this)
*All Pets
Dismount special move cannot dismount targets unless the tamer is already dismounted. (pvpers asked for this, yet it doesn't have an effect on pvm anyway, why would it matter?... It doesn't)
...Half the people here on stratics don't even know what they're talking about.
OH I don't know seen plenty of post "I am not" "My guild is Not" " All Pvprs are not" Logging in or playing until pets are nerfed or removed from PvP. Actually I did see a couple of arguments made by PvPs that the legacy Phoenix was too small and hard to get a health bar up for and it needed to be bigger and easier to target. While you really could not get away from it, you could take it a long way from its master and kill it. Agree 190 dex is not really a nerf but a reasonable adjustment at 190 dex a pet is still dman fast. same with the starting base damage again there were post complaining about the birds base damage in this and other forums. But you don't have to look very far to find post calling for a across the board nerf or removal of pets from PvP. Which is not reasonable it is a change that should be embraced and adapted to and taken advantage of. Way too much crying goes on about 10-20 year old templates not being effective anymore and not enough exploring how to exploit change into advantages. At the end of the day one rule holds true in PvP VS Tamer PvPs... Kill the tamer and the pet is useless, just a lump of pixels standing there wondering what it should do. Nope not every template is going to to be effective against a tamer just like not every template is going to be effective against a mage. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about but that is what I see day in and day out.
TC1 is ok and start, the pre full pub shards though is where the real testing should be done in the real shard environment in real conditions. No publish should ever get off Origin or the other shards until it is there for 30 days minimum. Everyone that is so concerned about bugs, glitches imbalances etc. Should be there testing every aspect of a new pub in real shard conditions. Too much is missed in the you have everything environment of TC1.
And as you point and it applies to PvM as Well as PvP you got nothing to complain about if you were not there finding the problems and communicating them before it went worldwide. Now if the problems were communicated and no reasonable explanation of why they were left is given then yep time to complain.
Regardless, it's been there for forever. The new team should never touch anything that's been there for so long, unless they are restoring something original.... it just shouldn't be allowed. Half of all of the new graphics (like the Broadsword plaque) are far too huge/ugly to ever be utilized in a standard house. Unless you have some crazy house stuffed with new / oversized rares and such...... It's just bad taste for UO. Most of the players here agree... bring back the old phoenix. They could keep both??? It's just as simple as dropping in a new mob close to the tigers or lions that spawn..... Far too many people have emotional attachments to things like Efreets and the Phoenix...... which is why nobody much plays EC. There are about 20% of people who do.... and 80% play CC.... just to see things like the phoenix (the red bird.... not giant dinosaur.)
Larisa
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I AM HAPPY with the changes! I went and tamed one...WAS EASY! Before omg I died so many times lol....and so pretty!!
Not everyone is happy with everything...I for one am very happy...so thanks Devs!
Not everyone is happy with everything...I for one am very happy...so thanks Devs!
I agree, but.. Pvmers seem to ignore most of what would be overpowered in pvp, because NPCs don't react the same way players do, nor do they complain when something is overpowered against them. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Sampires and wammies would either have more vulnerabilities or they would have been nerfed pretty hard by now if NPC's complained, wouldn't you agree?
So the people who either dislike Pvp or just aren't interested in it, wouldn't bother to report some things, like movement speed & Dismount (which were the only issues) as a problem, because to a pvmer, movement speed doesn't break anything when it comes to pvm same with dismount...
Does that mean pvpers should be forced to play tamers or quit official servers and play free shards where this isn't a problem?
IMO It means there needs to be more time to test, more extensive testing by those of us who are testing, Or both. It's unlikely to happen though, UO is in desperate need of more players, which would help with the testing issue. Since it's been made pretty clear that we (the players) are expected to do at least basic testing, much like we are also expected to report suspicious activity (ie police the game....), and based on Mesanna's responses to people regarding Multi-boxing & the RoC/ToS, the chances of anything happening are slim to none.
I would agree on the Sampires and the Wammies hate to say this but there is never going to be a good balance between PvM and PvP as the PvM side keeps making crazy HP near invulnerable critters with thousand of HP that take a army of GDs and Dexxers to take out, guess it could be said the power creep of 20 years. At the same time in PVP the Gear has changed and there are no Players with the 9,999HP 500Stam and 2000 str but the gear available to kill the things with those stats. Pretty long and bumpy bridge to cross to find common ground and balance.
Absolutely terrible. I liked the classic phoenix better. So what if it was a rehued eagle? It looked good. The new one looks horrible and it way too big.
The new phoenix looks better, the problem is, people don't like change. Just ignore these people and they'll get used to it.
If the new phoenix was the old phoenix and they changed it to a plain red one, i think broadsword would get death threats.
If the new phoenix was the old phoenix and they changed it to a plain red one, i think broadsword would get death threats.
How many people are nostalgic for a red eagle that most people didn't even see until this publish? Two? Three?
We were not able to tame one until this publish so that argument is mute.
As you say though....EVERYBODY knew it a re-hued eagle, so thanks for making that point
It was in the game though so how is that a moot argument? You can't tame efreets either but apparently people have an emotional attachment to those too.We were not able to tame one until this publish so that argument is mute.
As you say though....EVERYBODY knew it a re-hued eagle, so thanks for making that point
Also the fact that it was a re-hued eagle is an argument for it getting it's own art...
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Exactly!!! Pheonix are bright and colorful!!
Wing Zero Straight Edge
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A pheonix is meant to be bright and colorful.
Do these look like a crimson colored eagle that walks around looking like a chicken?
Do these look like a crimson colored eagle that walks around looking like a chicken?
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Larisa
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Honestly....Pyre would have made a better ~Phoenix~....but Wing is right...a Phoenix is a big majestic bird of fire....not a little ity bity bird. At least now it looks more or less like it's supposed to!
lol, no?! It was looking good in photoshop and if there are issues with it the players will notice soon enough anyway ;P
In UO the Phoenix isn't a big bright fluffy hello kitty bird.
In UO the Phoenix was a small deep red bird that everyone knew about and ran from because it was so pissed off.
This new version didn't get it's own art either.....it got the art of the Eodon 'Greater' phoenix.......so if its a greater phoenix now....where's it's buff?...oh that's right it got a de-buff instead.....poor bird was shafted twice.
Nope, not one thing of this move makes any sense and the dev's know it, which is why they are keeping so quiet about it.......they HATE having to say "ok we'll change it back, we screwed up"....they just cannot say it.
Oh and this won't die down......i'll make sure of that in EVERY 'meet and greet' from here on out!.
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Me to, I saw a tamed one yesterday and was told it was the one from the Delucia passage and I went, "No!" My first question was can it still fly? Nope, it walks from all I saw at the stables, maybe it will fly in a larger area.
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I am still waiting on the sea dragon stable master for Sonoma Mage tower, so ever M&G I am going to ask for it.In UO the Phoenix isn't a big bright fluffy hello kitty bird.
In UO the Phoenix was a small deep red bird that everyone knew about and ran from because it was so pissed off.
This new version didn't get it's own art either.....it got the art of the Eodon 'Greater' phoenix.......so if its a greater phoenix now....where's it's buff?...oh that's right it got a de-buff instead.....poor bird was shafted twice.
Nope, not one thing of this move makes any sense and the dev's know it, which is why they are keeping so quiet about it.......they HATE having to say "ok we'll change it back, we screwed up"....they just cannot say it.
Oh and this won't die down......i'll make sure of that in EVERY 'meet and greet' from here on out!.
An LS player also swore people were taming the Eodon birds. Then I told him to remove his Phoenix from the stable. "Oh, I must have seen that".
But it would be fine if we could train the spawn critters. Maybe. "Don't kill that one!!! It has good stats!!!" Maybe not.
doesn't realty matter to me but it does look like a large pigeon lol. it may not of been so bad for some peeps if they really made it look like a phoenix. the pvp changes are fine. anyone that has played awhile knew there would be nerfs/revamp/changes.
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Considering there are twice as many people who want the old phoenix back than prefer the new one, it seems like the best solution here is to just put back the old re-hued eagle exactly how it was, and then add the new type of brightly colored phoenix somewhere else. Give the brightly colored one a new name as well.
Old one = "A Phoenix"
New one = "An Eodonian Phoenix"
Since the old one spawns only in Trammel and Felucca, and the new one was first introduced at the Eodon champion spawn, it would make sense to call the new one an Eodonian Phoenix.
Give both types of phoenix identical stats so people can choose whichever one they prefer without losing any combat effectiveness.
Allow players who already have phoenixes to choose which graphic they want their phoenix to permanently be the next time they take it out of the stable. Have a menu pop up like for veteran rewards, showing each of the two graphics, with a box to check next to each one. Whichever box the player checks is the graphic their current phoenix will be forever.
The pet is still useful, you get to pick which graphic is used, and there is a geographic distinction in the name which describes where each species of phoenix can be found. That way everyone will be happy.
A poll on Stratics is hardly a representative sample... I didn't even notice the poll til you pointed it out. Anyone that thinks the old phoenix is better is just an old bugger that doesn't like change. The new art is clearly superior and more accurate to the common mythology of the phoenix.
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That is true, however by making both versions available not a single person anywhere should be mad about it, since they can choose whichever they prefer and ignore the one they don't like.
I do not dispute this statement, and I resemble that remark!
Yes, it is. That does not change the fact that some people preferred the original UO version of the phoenix. Not everything in a game has to perfectly match the real world mythology relating to it.
You got to send some emails out. That's where you have to look for those people. Mesanna is hardly taking any feedback from UHall unless its about EM stuff.
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How about a compromise?
Use the new graphic, scaled down about 50-75%.
A smaller version of the Eodon graphic wouldn't be as over the top as the Greater Phoenix are, nor as blatant a recolor or ugly as the old one.
Use the new graphic, scaled down about 50-75%.
A smaller version of the Eodon graphic wouldn't be as over the top as the Greater Phoenix are, nor as blatant a recolor or ugly as the old one.
Mesanna doesn't take feedback on anything.....have you not read the Meet and Greets. lol
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The old one could fly, which is one of the things people liked about it. The new one only walks. If they scaled down the size of the new one it still wouldn't be able to fly like the old one could.
, though i'll agree with
Larisa
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Because the PvP'rs whined that it was too small and fast for them to target and kill...so they made it bigger and slower....thanks PvP'rs!