• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

shard with no insurance and tram rules

wanderer1origin

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
seeing all discusion on fel and wishing players come back to be sheep!!!

would a non insurance shard bring back economy when you might loose stuff, and community hunts?
would cut down on leets farming solo and bring back reason for group play
keep arenas for pvp non gank
 

kelmo

Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
Be careful what you wish for. I have seen some pretty fierce sheep.
 

kelmo

Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
Oh... and we already have that shard.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
I never understood why Trammel got Item Insurance, but I don't play there so I don't care, I would hate to see it on Siege.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
seeing all discusion on fel and wishing players come back to be sheep!!!

would a non insurance shard bring back economy when you might loose stuff, and community hunts?
would cut down on leets farming solo and bring back reason for group play
keep arenas for pvp non gank
You really wouldn't lose anything. Don't use insurance for a day. I doubt you lose anything. Playing siege I ONLY lose my stuff when someone kills me and takes it. I die in pvm all the time, but I never lose my stuff, and I solo pretty much 100% of the time.

Aside from things like sacrifice, and the res gem, and the silver sapling, a companion... it's really not an issue to run out, res, grab a back up suit (or just risk it nude as I usually do successfully) run back in and loot.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
You really wouldn't lose anything. Don't use insurance for a day. I doubt you lose anything. Playing siege I ONLY lose my stuff when someone kills me and takes it. I die in pvm all the time, but I never lose my stuff, and I solo pretty much 100% of the time.

Aside from things like sacrifice, and the res gem, and the silver sapling, a companion... it's really not an issue to run out, res, grab a back up suit (or just risk it nude as I usually do successfully) run back in and loot.
Guess you've never fought much of the mobs I have... many of which will loot you dry in no time and at a champ spawn the corpses of the mobs vanish so fast it's nearly impossible to loot back anything they took.

Many mobs in UO loot. As an archer who uses bandages for healing I can't tell you how many times I've had all my bandages looted.... even if I keep them in 5 or 6 smaller stacks..... they still loot them all....
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Guess you've never fought much of the mobs I have... many of which will loot you dry in no time and at a champ spawn the corpses of the mobs vanish so fast it's nearly impossible to loot back anything they took.

Many mobs in UO loot. As an archer who uses bandages for healing I can't tell you how many times I've had all my bandages looted.... even if I keep them in 5 or 6 smaller stacks..... they still loot them all....
I have fought everything, bosses included. Sometimes I've been looted (liches I'm looking at you) but in most occasions monsters don't loot. When they do you just need to be aware of it, and aware of how their looting works. They always go for stacks first, and they rarely loot more than one or two items. Simply separate your aids into 5 equal stacks, and make a few stacks of gold,or just carry a few stacks of something else light if you don't use aids and you probably won't ever lose a piece of armor.

The most dangerous monster looting scenario is dying in the middle of several monsters that loot, so like 4 dudes all take a grab, if you are in a scenario when there are looting monsters you just need to be extra cautious of where you are, and what your health looks like.

Anyway, even if you take no precaution the amount of gear that will need replacing will be minimal, and it won't slow the 24/7 grind fest in the slightest.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I have fought everything, bosses included. Sometimes I've been looted (liches I'm looking at you) but in most occasions monsters don't loot. When they do you just need to be aware of it, and aware of how their looting works. They always go for stacks first, and they rarely loot more than one or two items. Simply separate your aids into 5 equal stacks, and make a few stacks of gold,or just carry a few stacks of something else light if you don't use aids and you probably won't ever lose a piece of armor.

The most dangerous monster looting scenario is dying in the middle of several monsters that loot, so like 4 dudes all take a grab, if you are in a scenario when there are looting monsters you just need to be extra cautious of where you are, and what your health looks like.

Anyway, even if you take no precaution the amount of gear that will need replacing will be minimal, and it won't slow the 24/7 grind fest in the slightest.
Can't carry more than 2k of gold and I never loot it on my archer..... not worth it. Never fails they always take my bandages and I do keep them in stacks 5 or 6 stacks. I also always carry a blessed/insured talisman of clean bandage summoning just for those mobs.

Anyway with 90+ characters I have no desire to have to constantly replace pieces of gear and if I had to replace something like my Crimmy or crap like that well then I'd just rather forget it..... the time it takes to grind out crap to get another crimmy is just too great.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Can't carry more than 2k of gold and I never loot it on my archer..... not worth it. Never fails they always take my bandages and I do keep them in stacks 5 or 6 stacks. I also always carry a blessed/insured talisman of clean bandage summoning just for those mobs.
*Shrug* It's never been more than a mild annoyance to me. The only time it really irks me is like you said in a champ spawn, but even then I frequently am able to get my items back. That of course depends on who else is working the spawn if anyone, as well.

edit: Why can you only carry 2k gold?
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
*Shrug* It's never been more than a mild annoyance to me. The only time it really irks me is like you said in a champ spawn, but even then I frequently am able to get my items back. That of course depends on who else is working the spawn if anyone, as well.

edit: Why can you only carry 2k gold?
As an Archer I carry about 10 to 15 bows, 250 bandages, 3 or 4 full quivers of arrows... which leaves precious little room for anything else. I will loot most anything that Pinco's says will unravel into relics.... all gemstones and ZERO gold.

EM events you never really know what you might encounter..... so like a good boy scout I am ALWAYS prepared.

Not to forget about 20 potions.
 
Last edited:

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As an Archer I carry about 10 to 15 bows, 250 bandages, 3 or 4 full quivers of arrows... which leaves precious little room for anything else. I will loot most anything that Pinco's says will unravel into relics.... all gemstones and ZERO gold.

EM events you never really know what you might encounter..... so like a good boy scout I am ALWAYS prepared.

Not to forget about 20 potions.
10-15 bows! Crazy. I think the only time I have more than one weapon is when I do spawns for the whirlwind, heh. I just run to the bank if I need to switch slayers.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
As an Archer I carry about 10 to 15 bows, 250 bandages, 3 or 4 full quivers of arrows... which leaves precious little room for anything else. I will loot most anything that Pinco's says will unravel into relics.... all gemstones and ZERO gold.
Crazy, I do carry 2-3 bows, 100-200 bandages, one Quiver with 500 arrows.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Crazy, I do carry 2-3 bows, 100-200 bandages, one Quiver with 500 arrows.
I'm guessing you all don't do EM events for the drop then. Because if you did you'd know you need to be prepared. I've actually emptied 2 quivers of arrows before... I've also found that having the right weapon with the right damage is EXTREMELY important... If I suppose I was doing a champ which I don't do on an ABC archer... since I can't really do area damage and I don't have an option for Whirlwind... I'd take just what I needed depending on what I popped... but by the time you pop one... run back and get what the stuff you need and then start doing it your already too late for keeping it a secret.... unless your goal is to get raided. My goal is usually not to get seen doing it.

Again carrying all the slayers I need is important. Plus on occasion I do PvP mostly RP PvP I also need to carry a Heavy for dismounts, a regular bow or a crossbow for Mortal and such... and I often have a shortbow for mages though not generally. I carry mostly the top slayers plus about 6 or so talismans of various things like mage slayer, vermin slayer, bird slayer etc.... to be Prepared for anything the EMs throw at me. I'm willing to bet that most folk who take the EM events seriously and actually attempt to get a drop if they are a dexer of some sort they carry just as many weapons. I also carry a balanced composite for PvP. Never know when I might run into someone that needs arrested a Knight can't be too careful.

I don't have time to say "Wait! Let me run to the bank and grab a different slayer." in the middle of a fight.

Now on average I can say that at least on GLs where I play the EMs tend to like to use the Primevil Lich or the Styngian as the base... primarily..... but you never know. Taking the time to go get a new weapon can mean the difference between getting a drop or not getting a drop.

And NO I don't sell them. As a general rule I keep them and they go to the Hall of Virtue to be displayed. As most trophy's should. And often if I get more than one (this occasionally happens.... but I NEVER multibox)... I often will either trade the item for something I may have missed or something from another shard that has a spider theme... since I'm rather into to those things.... or I might give it to one of my friends who didn't get one. Because I'm nice like that.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Crazy, I do carry 2-3 bows, 100-200 bandages, one Quiver with 500 arrows.
Yes but you both play on Siege where people take your stuff... if you die... People don't take my stuff... so I carry everything I need.
 

Deadly Serious

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I carry around 10 slayer bows with quiver of elements in my bag (max weight reduction quiver) + bandies.

Also in regards to economy why not increase insurance to the point of it is a % of how much you are worth, i'm sure that guy with 100+ millz on the whole account would be grouped if it wacked 1 mill - 5 mill from every death if he chose to insure :p
 
Last edited:

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
I carry around 10 slayer bows with quiver of elements in my bag (max weight reduction quiver) + bandies.

Also in regards to economy why not increase insurance to the point of it is a % of how much you are worth, i'm sure that guy with 100+ millz on the whole account would be grouped if it wacked 1 mill - 5 mill from every death if he chose to insure :p
You see, that may work in Trammel, but the young PvP'er, with little gold, who try to get good gear to PvP, he will not be able to afford learning to PvP, may be hard for a young PvM'er too.
Maybe I misunderstood you and you mean % of gold in bank too when you say, what you are worth.
I rather saw Item Insurance removed. If you die to hard spawn and can't get back to body, stuff should be lost just if you die to a looting PK in fel. Then people would learn, don't leave town with anything you can't afford losing.

Yes but you both play on Siege where people take your stuff... if you die... People don't take my stuff... so I carry everything I need.
I carry what I can afford to lose, even when people rarely take my stuff. I like the risk, even when I hate losing my stuff but I have to admit, I rather lose it to a PK than to a monster or see it decay on my body, because I can't get back.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
I'm guessing you all don't do EM events for the drop then
Nope, monster killing is really not me, I most do it to get resources for crafting. I don't really care about rares.
I do rarely go to EM events. We had one long ago on Siege, a tournament in archery, rowning, etc. That was alot more fun. Yes it was on Siege and yes, the EM did give us time for some PvP between the matchs.
I like the governor stuff too, everything that have to do with interact between players.
 

Deadly Serious

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I rather saw Item Insurance removed. If you die to hard spawn and can't get back to body, stuff should be lost just if you die to a looting PK in fel. Then people would learn, don't leave town with anything you can't afford losing.
I carry what I can afford to lose, even when people rarely take my stuff. I like the risk, even when I hate losing my stuff but I have to admit, I rather lose it to a PK than to a monster or see it decay on my body, because I can't get back.
The only argument I have against this is when it comes to interesting skill templates because i'm a big fan of it and I've done a lot of work and research cramming skills points and limiting skill points to the point of where I've essentially made my own type of spin on sampire/mystic warrior/mystic mage/tamer/tamer warrior/tamer archer. Most of these even have disco crammed in and that's all definitely with the help of reforge/imbuing and rare finds, extremely expensive stuff but gives huge flavour to your toon than the bog standard cover all resists to 70 and have basic 120/100 skills.

In light of that I think item safety is a good thing but I certainly think it should come at a big price in fel, I would rather think of other options of pvper's getting rewarded I mean the fact I get a rare artifact from a champ why can't that be the same as power scrolls temporarily cursed until I hit trammel?

I don't think I would like the option much of having another toon that has half pvm/half pvp capability or full pvp built into him and having to bring as many peeps as I can to simply do a champ spawn everyday, I think sticking to some well prized kit but having big insurance penalties especially on legendary artifacts maybe even introducing a new property on kit that states the % increase in insurance when in Fel, I think there are a number of possibilities.

I would just like to see diversity and convenience kept in check especially as you mentioned inexperienced players the strictness and penalties of dieing in fel and losing all kit that is extremely harsh in this gaming market today.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
This is where I prefer discussions in Vent over discussions in text and on forums..... this is going to take awhile to type out but here goes:

Ok so much of what I feel has contributed to the death of community and the death of fun in UO as far as PvP and RPPvP is concerned is the rise of itemization and the AoS...

Years ago suits didn't matter and people built their characters around their skills. It was more the way you used your character than how you put your suit together.

Now some RP communities have tried to regulate how you RP your character and tried to preserve that old school balance by saying you couldn't use anything but GM armor.... etc... but that was extremely limiting. Having tried this many times the "flaw" of that is you just can't then live in both worlds. Building your character around skill and not your suit to RPPvP leaves you crippled in PvM. Which means you can't use your beloved RP character for much of anything unless you have a large group of other RPers to go with you or you are just going to wind up dead over and over and over again... and the more complex suit buiding has gotten over the years the more complex they make the mobs to battle in them... and the more complex the mobs get the more stuff they pack into the suit and the further you get away from being able to use your RP character for anything but PvP with other RPers.

So then you cripple them... but if you let them use whatever they have then you get the problem with the "haves" and the "have nots"... where you start to breed discontentment because folk are always irritated because you always have the 2 or 3 guys who have everything and they have the most uber awesome weapons and such and their gear is super tricked out and they just dominated the PvP... making those who have not got the greatest of the great gear getting all disgusted because they can "never win" and eventually they get so frustrated they quit. Kinda like you also get when one side continually has far more players than the other... and the PvP is unbalanced and always in the favor of one faction.... sort of ruins the "fun".

Sadly people now build their character around their suit..... skill sets and stats completely in tune with what they wear.... so lose one piece and the whole thing falls apart until it is replaced.

So you get this imbalance that destroys community... and drives it apart no matter which way you decide to go and there seems to be no happy medium...

You couple that with the greed that has come into play since the EM program introduced drops upon us that collectors value at insane prices and the "rare" drop arties like the Lavalier, crimmy, slither etc.. that people "must" have the level 3 taming primer, taming SoTs and everything else that costs insane prices and you get folk who value coin over community... and they no longer want to work together because they don't want to have to split the loot.

And it just splits the community more and more.

As well IMO the itemization of the game ruined something else that brought the community together... the need for a crafter...... But as someone else also pointed out the shift from 5 to 7 characters also helped ruin that since most everyone now has their own crafter.... they don't need anyone to "fix" or "repair" their stuff... it's all so impersonal now with the repair deeds.... I doubt most people even know the name of the crafter they buy them from... or where they live.

But that's kinda how I see things.

Many folk left RP and RPPvP when it became more about gear and less about skill.... more people left community behind when greed took over... and I don't see a way to solve the issue. Now the focus is less on interacting and more on getting more stuff to sell for millions/billions..... and that's also why Siege is being left behind.... you can't make billions there and sell it for RL money... and people don't play for the fun anymore. The goal is now to get more stuff and make more gold...
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
more people left community behind when greed took over... and I don't see a way to solve the issue.
Lol, if there were players who didn't want to play on the greedy production shards, there is an easy solution. MOVE TO SIEGE...la
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Lol, if there were players who didn't want to play on the greedy production shards, there is an easy solution. MOVE TO SIEGE...la
I give Siege a try from time to time but I find it mostly boring and dead. If I wanted to play on a dead shard I'd play on Balhae... I think all of 2 people play there.
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I give Siege a try from time to time but I find it mostly boring and dead. If I wanted to play on a dead shard I'd play on Balhae... I think all of 2 people play there.
Then get more people to come with you. You say people left the production shard because of greed. Come to Siege and build this community...la
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Then get more people to come with you. You say people left the production shard because of greed. Come to Siege and build this community...la
Tried that they too got bored. They also weren't too fond of the slow skill raising.

I found building a bunch of characters there kind of reminded me of old days when gear didn't matter... but after getting characters built I really saw no point in it and found it a distraction to playing on my home shard that I didn't really think was worth the effort.
 

Corwyn

Lake Superior Tabloid Journalist
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
You know, I was thinking that from a roleplay standpoint, Siege would be the most realistic place to play, for the following reasons:
  • The danger of the possibility of being killed anywhere, at any time, by anyone/anything
  • The idea that the NPCs will not buy anything that you might have to sell
  • The lack of recall, meaning you'd either have to gate or hoof it. And if the gate is used, those that didn't cast it have to have faith that they are going where they were supposed to be going
  • The lack of insurance, which would curtail the ridiculous suits, allowing for skill to supercede gear
I've always had the thought that if I want truly immersive RP, it should feel as close to tabletop roleplaying as possible. And in tabletop roleplaying, party members can stab you in the back, steal from you or kill you just as easily as any NPC or monster can. Hell... I've been that thief/murderer a time or two. All a part of the experience.

The only reason I'd say Siege might not work is the fact that not everyone would be roleplaying, which could cause griefing. But, since it's been said that Siege is pretty much a dead shard, I don't think that would be much of an issue currently.

I should have premised this by saying I'm not currently a Siege player. I have a character there, but he hasn't been worked on in years, and even when I made him, I didn't stay on for very long. Not enough time back then to work on him.
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The only reason I'd say Siege might not work is the fact that not everyone would be roleplaying, which could cause griefing.
We've had our share of roleplaying guilds, they had their own way of retribution for griefers. One of the great parts of Siege is the one character rule. This prevents people from hiding behind alt characters. With the invention of name change tokens it could be different now. We had a kiddie playing not to long ago and was finding it tough to sell anything so he got a name change token. Guess he forgot that with the name change, you still have a character id that shows up in chat.

He either got grounded for being a douchebag irl or he found it too tough to play on in-game...la
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Years ago suits didn't matter and people built their characters around their skills. It was more the way you used your character than how you put your suit together.
So true but I I believe we can fix that, heal the damage from AoS. We do have caps on most mods, so make it easier to get a maxed out suit. If all can have it, and easy can replace lost pieces, then it again will matter how you use your char and we would not need Item Insurance.

Sadly people now build their character around their suit..... skill sets and stats completely in tune with what they wear.... so lose one piece and the whole thing falls apart until it is replaced.
Sadly this are one of the reason Siege is dying. Very hard to enjoy PvP if you have to use alot of time replace your suit before you can play again.

I also believe that's why some on Siege want VvV Artifacts, I rather see the farmers and the crafters stock their vendors with the items the PvP'ers need and to a price they can pay without farm monsters for hours to buy it.

AoS killed lots of RPPvP'ers and non RP PvP'ers too.

Shadowclan ORC did not survive AoS.
 

Victim of Siege

Grand Poobah
Governor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I give Siege a try from time to time but I find it mostly boring and dead. If I wanted to play on a dead shard I'd play on Balhae... I think all of 2 people play there.
Balhae had about 7 active players last time i played there. but yeah, looooooooooow pop.

oh, disregard. that was at an EM event . . .
 
Top