My 2nd Biggest Worry About UO

[GalenKnighthawke]

My biggest worry about this game has long-been irrationality on EA's part.

My 2nd biggest worry, however, is the time at which we players hit a tipping point, where everything is taken negatively. We've always been a rough bunch, but for the last couple of years it's day by day less of an exaggeration to say that we, collectively, take everything negatively.

Let's go over a few things.

We were given brewing, something which has been asked for for years, and yet the folks who'd long-asked for it were somewhere nowhere to be found. Plenty of detractors though, both who didn't like the implementation of the system and who attacked it being implemented at all when their pet preference wasn't.

We had a scenario where we were given regular fiction, and where we faced an enemy with deep roots in the Ultima canon. Again, things people have long-liked and long-asked for and they were greeted with negativity. Not all of the negativity was focused on the execution; a shocking amount of it (shocking to me anyway) focused on attacking the idea of fiction and the idea of scenarios. Where were the people to defend the idea, even if they criticized the implementation?

Stepping back a little further, we've gotten a flexible title system that we have a great deal of control over. Many years ago, we were told that titles were impossible (I looked up some old UO.com pages on the Internet archive). This change has generated very few complements.

Stepping back yet further, this team has been better than many better-liked teams at keeping the UO patch message up-to-date, until pretty recently This is quite good, as how many UO players don't go to Stratics, or even to UO.com. How many didn't even notice?

And finally....I have no website wherein I "definitively assert" that EA has stopped paying the UO servers. Further, what if I did? Just about anyone can make a website that definitively asserts all kinds of things. The fact that anyone could take this seriously speaks poorly to our collective state of mind: Things that are ridiculous on the face may seem way more credible to us than they should be. I had no idea just how bad things had gotten.

My biggest worry about this game is EA's abject irrationality as an institution, coupled with the fact that they don't understand UO or MMOs generally. And my second biggest worry, that the players will hit a tipping point where we quite literally hate everything, is fast-approaching. Luckily we are not there yet.

-Galen's player

 

[aarons6]

the biggest thing that everyone needs to realize is this is a game that they do not own.

the devs can pretty much do whatever they feel like and as a player you can either accept it or find something else..

i like a lot of the new changes.. yes some could have been more thought out..

i dont like the constant nerfs, but oh well.

 

[Taylor]

Yep. To be fair, the more time I spend on official forums for other games, the more I realize that negativity is the default demeanor of most MMO gamers. Nevertheless, I think you're right: poo-pooing every change that is released can kill a title. It can also crush the creativity/job satisfaction out of a development team.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

the biggest thing that everyone needs to realize is this is a game that they do not own.

the devs can pretty much do whatever they feel like and as a player you can either accept it or find something else..

i like a lot of the new changes.. yes some could have been more thought out..

i dont like the constant nerfs, but oh well.

Irony is awesome.

Both in the 80s sense and in the older sense as well.

-Galen's player

 

[JC the Builder]

We were given brewing, something which has been asked for for years

I can not recall seeing a single topic or mention of anyone asking for brewing to be added. Of course some people must have, but this was definitely not a feature being demanded by any sizable number of people.

And those people who did ask for it are probably really disappointed they had to pay for it.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I can not recall seeing a single topic or mention of anyone asking for brewing to be added. Of course some people must have, but this was definitely not a feature being demanded by any sizable number of people.

And those people who did ask for it are probably really disappointed they had to pay for it.

That's just it; there were people attacking the idea of it. Not just that we had to pay extra for it, but the idea of it.

Do you really think they just decided, "hey, UO players want brewing?"

No....People had, over the years, asked for it.

Going way back.

And when we finally got it, those people were silent.

*shrugs*

Irony, once again.

-Galen's player

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I agree about EA as a whole, I do not however agree with it in terms of who controls UO with in EA, Bioware (before the EA buy out) was a highly respected company and a power with in its field, Do I have certainty that they have the ability/control to actually push UO into the future? No, I do not, but it does not stop me from responding in a positive manner when I can.

I try my best to reward the developers with applause and positive feedback, but something I just skip over as not being major....such as the title thing, I thought it was cool but no one posted anything negative about it so I did not pay it much attention, plus I did/do not remember there being a high shout out about trying to get it (I believe you if you say their was just saying when they put things in that do not have major backing, and I do not see as such a huge accomplishment I might skim over it partly with out even realizing).

I hope no part of my post in reply to you in the other thread prompted any of this, as I was completely being "playful" with you, as I stated I realized you were most likely role-playing the "doomsdayer" but still had to reply.

I agree with you though that as a whole "we" are negative, but then I feel that as a whole the population of the earth is tending to lean that way altogether, so its hard to really push for positive imaging here at UO where there is a lot wrong with the system, and other highly Negative things (MYUO being down for a month with no explanation is unacceptable if it is just a "maintenance" or even just a "face over" as neither of those are major projects and could be done by a novice with in a few days.) I feel where you are coming from, but still even I find it difficult at times to really assess what is going on around here when some things are changed which are seemingly random changes, but certain bugs and flaws in the game are let go day after day, week after week, year and year. Not to mention things left unfinished.....or how about our complete developer over haul every so often where the new developers have no idea what the last ones were doing or did actually do?

I don't know, there is merit in your post but at the same time....Perhaps we have to put a little more pressure on Cal and the Developers, not to fix the game but to gain the power to address things in an order that better benefits the current playerbase.

 

[Woodsman]

How much negativity would there be if we had more new players who saw things differently, or people who quit long ago and started coming back.

We are definitely jaded as a group. At some point recently I went from playing often back down to a few times a week and I'm headed towards the point where I'll go week without logging in. I'm holding out for the graphics update and some other stuff, but it's tough. If they can do the graphics update right, I've got some friends that quit long ago that I might be able to pull back in, but I'm still incredibly cynical. I'm also incredibly cynical about the Star Wars launch and what impact it will ultimately have on UO. UO didn't do so well after the Warhammer launch.

 

[Tanivar]

I'm also incredibly cynical about the Star Wars launch and what impact it will ultimately have on UO. UO didn't do so well after the Warhammer launch.

A lot will depend on whether or not it's a sandbox game. A game where your locked into a set series of quests limited to hacking mobs will lose it's thrill fairly quickly for many people, no matter how snazzy the graphics are.

A game limited to hack & slash just doesn't have what it takes to last many years as UO has.

 

[Gunga_Din]

Star Wars will not do well and EA etc are in for a wake up call. That failure may impact the entire company. How much? I'm not sure. Why will SW not do well? Listen, i've played a lot of MMO's. Nowadays I don't even need the BETA testing to tell me how the game will turn out. I read up on the direction they are going, what they will offer and ask lots of veteran MMO players what their take is.

I don't like what i've seen and many of my friends feel the same.

On to UO. The game needs to get back to its roots. Concentrate on the things that made the game great. My biggest worry is that we are losing the world Ultima in our game. The game totally revolves around items and pixel crack. The latest booster did not offer an true in game content....only items and pointless things to pass the time. If the boosters are gonna be like this, there is no point to continue playing this game.

Magincia's rebuilding was horrible. I question the DEVS and there ability to introduce quality content. I have been unhappy with their choices for the past year. The lack of creativity baffles me. Read up on your UO lore and start there. I have no idea what the hell they are trying to do let alone the direction they are going in. They start something and then finish it half ass.

They never had to keep introducing new new new . All they had to do is look back and work from all the old content that was already implemented in the game.

 

[Tinsil]

I've actually played the beta so I have a bit more than speculation and it is amazing all around.

The basis is essentially WoW, but then everything is done sooooo much better. You'll have to give it a try before passing judgment.

 

[Raptor85]

We were given brewing, something which has been asked for for years, and yet the folks who'd long-asked for it were somewhere nowhere to be found. Plenty of detractors though, both who didn't like the implementation of the system and who attacked it being implemented at all when their pet preference wasn't.

It would be cool, but they totally botched the implementation then charged $10 for it, the variations in yeast are practically useless from what I can tell, the bottles themselves aren't very varied, can't even make proper ale's or rum. Then they had to go add the messages and actions to being drunk essentially ensuring my character in game will never drink again. Give them props for that if you will but it's something that was just poorly handled all the way around, and it's just insulting to charge so much for it when the artwork isn't even all that great. (hell, the bottles are just the old ones reused)

We had a scenario where we were given regular fiction, and where we faced an enemy with deep roots in the Ultima canon. Again, things people have long-liked and long-asked for and they were greeted with negativity. Not all of the negativity was focused on the execution; a shocking amount of it (shocking to me anyway) focused on attacking the idea of fiction and the idea of scenarios. Where were the people to defend the idea, even if they criticized the implementation?

regular fiction, timed out on a "whenever they feel like it" fashon, leaving EM's (which on our shard didn't exist at the time, and i know we weren't the only ones who never even had the story arc happen) to just "make up" everything inbetween. I don't remember anyone attacking the idea of having story arcs, but the implementation was horrific. Not to mention the slap in the face to Ultima lore that was the final fight with virtuebane and the rebuilding of "New Magincia" to it's now, oh so humble, shopping mall atmosphere w/ for the first time in 13 years housing INSIDE a guard zone......


A lot of the complaints, especially about how GM's, story arcs, or recent expansions were handled I have no idea how to NOT complain about them, all are things I would love to have but the horrible implementation just shows how little effort was put into them. I honestly have to say I think EA likes it this way though, because as much as players like me will complain, no matter how bad something is if it provides ANY benefit in game at all most players will feel "forced" to get it to keep up with everyone else, it's sad really and it's exactly why we see these poorly thought through, basically alpha release expansions with so little content, because they know almost everyone who subscribes will have to buy them sooner or later.

 

[Tina Small]

I've actually been feeling pretty positive about UO lately. In part, that is because Logrus has been very involved in the PvP balancing part of the latest publish and posting a lot of feedback and information in the Test Center forum. I know he is one UO designer who actually plays UO and, I think, has a very good understanding of the game and its players. The other reasons I've been feeling pretty positive about UO are (1) the large number of bug fixes that continue to be included in publishes/patches and (2) I've run into many players on Siege the last couple of months who indicate they are returning to UO after a multi-year absence, some from even before AoS. Even ran into a returning player today who was trying out Siege on a trial account. He'll be fairly limited in what he can do because of being on a trial account, but hopefully his friend who also is a recent returnee and who talked him into returning can help convince him to stick around and pay for a subscription and the SA expansion.

 

[Viper09]

Here's how I see it when it comes to negativity. If there is something someone doesn't like, they will raise hell over it. If there is something they love, they may say something positive but there will rarely be a huge discussion over it, let alone even a thread being opened.

Fact is people on these boards have always whined about everything they can in this game. Some people will even go through hell just to look for something to whine about.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Here's how I see it when it comes to negativity. If there is something someone doesn't like, they will raise hell over it. If there is something they love, they may say something positive but there will rarely be a huge discussion over it, let alone even a thread being opened.

Fact is people on these boards have always whined about everything they can in this game. Some people will even go through hell just to look for something to whine about.

This. My Lord, this 10,000 Times. Time and time again I find this being the theme, freaking people here complain about freaking colors, I am not even talking about the huge dislike of "neon items" I just mean plain old freaking colors.

 

[AtlanteanAngel]

The current Dev team is putting in far more effort, resources and manpower working on UO than in the last half-decade.

This is wonderful news for UO of course. Except that given EA's track record, don't be surprised if EA's execs suddenly pull the plug on UO (based on whatever bigwig corporate reasoning) at the height of UO.

 

[Klapauc]

Two reasons why i do complain about current developers.
First one is when they have a good idea and then the implementation is flawed or just horrible, you just need to look at the last and current event arc.
My second reason to complain is when i feel they spend their time on unneeded useless changes nobody did ask for or has a use for while there are bigger problems with the game that are around for years.
There are some examples of bugs that are around since sa release and are getting fixed now, why its nice to have them fixed, i ask myself why it did take them so long.

 

[Gheed]

Here's how I see it when it comes to negativity. If there is something someone doesn't like, they will raise hell over it. If there is something they love, they may say something positive but there will rarely be a huge discussion over it, let alone even a thread being opened.

Fact is people on these boards have always whined about everything they can in this game. Some people will even go through hell just to look for something to whine about.

This is so true. To add to it, if you are happy playing the game, you tend to play the game. If you are unhappy (enough) about something, you will tend to want to talk about it.

I still work in a very successful little data center that manages networks for hundreds of clients. When the phone rings it typically isn't someone calling to say "Hey everything is running great! Keep up the good work." No those folks pay us well to keep things running smooth. And they get what they pay for. When the phone rings, 99 times out of 100 it is someone with a problem to be solved. We get a nice thank you when the dust is settled. Occasionally someone will get a registered letter of thanks. We even have a few engineers that get Christmas cards or gifts from a client. But the meat of the job is put out fires, expand infrastructure and collect a paycheck.

I relate the above to these boards sometimes. I would like to think that folks here, including myself tend to post when they have some sort of bone to pick. Most any other time they should be playing the game.

With that in mind, a little message to the OP. You should not fear a time when everything is (collectively) taken negatively. You should fear a time when folks stop giving a damn and (collectively) do not post at all.

 

[Nexus]

My biggest worry about this game is EA's abject irrationality as an institution, coupled with the fact that they don't understand UO or MMOs generally. And my second biggest worry, that the players will hit a tipping point where we quite literally hate everything, is fast-approaching. Luckily we are not there yet.

-Galen's player

I honestly think many of the players are at that tipping point or getting very near.

But I do agree that I don't think EA knows exactly what to do with UO simply because EA is a company that built themselves largely around the Console market, and until we see what happens with Bio-ware, every other acquired company in memory has been rolled into and forced into EA's concept of how the company is run, and the Stand alone/Console markets are far different than the world of MMO's.

What my biggest concern is and has been is the inability for UO to re-invent itself successfully. AoS was an attempt, but was it the right type of re-invention? Focus on game play, content, etc are fine and well when pandering to existing customers, but UO has attempted nothing since AoS that is targeted towards drawing new customers in today's MMO market, unless you count the KR and SA clients which still looked "Gen before Last" in terms of technology at the best.

You hear all the time "UO is a niche game", but it's niche is shrinking. UO isn't growing in terms of players, yet it's continually increasing in the amount of content. The game has increased content by at least 30% since AoS but subscriptions have declined by about 70% from that time frame. The only thing this can mean is something is wrong. Throwing new content out hoping it draws people isn't working. Counting on "Word of Mouth" advertising isn't working, focusing on clients that in comparison to their contemporary peers in terms of ease of use, stability, and graphics are laughable isn't working.

Sure the game is still profitable, it's development costs are paid, it's income at the moment far exceeds operating costs, but eventually a tipping point will happen there as well and when that happens.....

Sooner or later it's going to come to a point of "Put up or Shut Down" where either EA is going going to have to put up a real effort to revolutionize UO by allotting resources and personnel to really bring UO up to modern MMO standards not in Game play & Content (which it exceeds most at already), but in Aesthetics. Aesthetics is currently UO's Achilles heel, in addition to UO's weak stance against RMT and Cheating, something that is completely opposite in most notable MMO's. Will a "Graphical Revolution" kill off part of the existing player base? Quite probably, many are extremely attached to the current Classic Client, but it is an inhibitor to real progress in terms of advancement in the game on an Aesthetic level, eventually it will have to be let go for UO to advance, because Content, Community, and Game Play will not support UO forever. The alternative when that point is reached is to simply announce a closure date.

Really what EA has though is a great game, that with the proper care can flourish, the fact it is still running while we've watched many competitors falter and fail, and the intense passion it's player community has for the game are testaments to it. It's EA's lack of vision and inability to hand the developers the resources they need to give UO a real rebirth, either out of ignorance of the MMO market, or fear of mass alienation and abandonment by the subscribers of one of it's current cash cows, are the tragedy of the entire situation. But sooner or later as I said there will be a tipping point where UO will no longer be considered profitable enough (though at the time it might still be profitable) and something will have to be done.

I don't blame any of the development teams for what has happened to UO, over the years, I think they do the best they can with what they have, but I do blame EA for not making what they have better.

As for players hating everything, I really don't think it's a matter of hating I think it's a growing sense of desperation. We spent over a year with promises that Cheating will be combated only to see "We've collected the data" but nothing noticeable result from it other than remarks of "We're still deciding how to address this", and several years with buggy clients with a "Beta" tag slapped on them not being stabilized and completed. Instead we see a push towards content, and a focus on micro-transactions popping up. It looks like they are scrambling to hold onto existing customers, while making as much money as possible in a way that looks like an attempt to make us forget about why people are leaving to start with.

The reason so many have left in my opinion is not because of lack of content, but because even with all the additional content, storyline, etc. UO has progressed very little in the eyes of the player base in years. How much content can you add before adding more doesn't really register? It's not that they hate the content that's being added, but there is so much that additional content simply isn't something to get excited about leading to a sense of being underwhelmed by the offerings. Especially when there are so many of us who play multiple MMO's where something new might feel more tangible thanks to better Aesthetic qualities in those games, granted the SA client is a step in the right direction but still it falls miles short of the mark.

Well that's my 2 cents, it's not short and sweet, but it's my opinion.

 

[Siteswap]

Whilst there have been many small but nonetheless welcome changes, you are right in that we as players havent exactly been throwing a party and hailing the virtues of the Dev team because of them.

I think this is due to the fact that there is now more fundamentaly wrong with the game than there ever has been. The Dev team seems to focus more on wallpapering over the cracks with minor enhancements whilst the UO house crumbles into dust around them and major faults get continually ignored. If we were to see some of the glaring bugs and issues that have literally been around for years and years fixed then maybe, just maybe, we could be a bit more positive towards the small changes that have been inplemented.

Until then our negativaty is neither surprising nor unwarranted.

 

[Woodsman]

I've actually been feeling pretty positive about UO lately.

The other reasons I've been feeling pretty positive about UO are (1) the large number of bug fixes that continue to be included in publishes/patches and

Yeah, I feel somewhat positive. I was impressed with the number of bug fixes in the last publish. That means somebody has a long term view. Plus the graphics update that we are waiting to see.

This is wonderful news for UO of course. Except that given EA's track record, don't be surprised if EA's execs suddenly pull the plug on UO (based on whatever bigwig corporate reasoning) at the height of UO.

When EA executives starting ditching games and discussing ignoring smaller games and focusing the company on fewer games that were more profitable, I was worried. Since that time, there has been a lot done in UO that seems to be geared towards long-term things.

Plus an EA executive said last month that UO is profitable. It was actually the head of EA Games who said that, which is good.

This Ultima Forver thing can't be bad for UO either. Somebody cares about the Ultima franchise.

Both UO and Camelot are seeing a lot more activity on the dev side of things over the last six months or so, including things for new players. This is good, except that I'm concerned that maybe EA is shoring up UO and Camelot because they are worried about Star Wars or other games. If Star Wars fails, I'm afraid they'll do to BioWare what they did to Mythic when Warhammer failed - lay off a bunch of people regardless of profitability.

On the other hand, we've had the head of EA games say that UO is "widely profitable" and EA/BioWare is putting long-term work into UO. They have things planned for Camelot's 10th birthday later this year, and I'm sure they have something planned for UO next year - they won't pass that up. It's beyond the 15th anniversary that I'm worried about, and it's the performance of Star Wars I'm worried about.

I'd feel a helluva lot better if UO started seeing some new hires. I don't care if it's artists or devs.

 

[Woodsman]

But I do agree that I don't think EA knows exactly what to do with UO simply because EA is a company that built themselves largely around the Console market, and until we see what happens with Bio-ware, every other acquired company in memory has been rolled into and forced into EA's concept of how the company is run, and the Stand alone/Console markets are far different than the world of MMO's.

What my biggest concern is and has been is the inability for UO to re-invent itself successfully. AoS was an attempt, but was it the right type of re-invention? Focus on game play, content, etc are fine and well when pandering to existing customers, but UO has attempted nothing since AoS that is targeted towards drawing new customers in today's MMO market, unless you count the KR and SA clients which still looked "Gen before Last" in terms of technology at the best.

Both of these tie into the whole sandbox thing. EA doesn't know how to handle sandbox, and the fact that the majority of MMOs, including the big ones, have bypassed the sandbox concept, is troublesome.

The best comparison maybe EVE Online, but they have 100s of thousands of players and they have been working on allowing for battles that have thousands of players participating in at the same time, among many other things. That generates a lot, I don't know what a good term for it would be, content is not the right word. The other thing is that EVE Online is basically only one shard, and so you don't have the issues that other MMOs have where players are scattered across multiple shards that may see declines in population.

It's tough to justify adding more areas to UO when the player population continues to decline. To me it goes back to new players. If I had to pick a single concern, it's that all of the effort going into attracting new players - graphics update, new player experience, quest updates, etc. won't bring in enough new players to offset things.

If they can just get enough new players in, it could shake UO up, because it would give vets a lot more to do.

 

[Barok]

I can not recall seeing a single topic or mention of anyone asking for brewing to be added. Of course some people must have, but this was definitely not a feature being demanded by any sizable number of people.

And those people who did ask for it are probably really disappointed they had to pay for it.

Those that did ask for it don't even know that UO has it now cuz they left ages ago.

 

[Viper09]

I can not recall seeing a single topic or mention of anyone asking for brewing to be added. Of course some people must have, but this was definitely not a feature being demanded by any sizable number of people.

And those people who did ask for it are probably really disappointed they had to pay for it.

Maybe you just never read those topics? Because I remember several threads over the years asking for it to be added for fun.

 

[popps]

The current Dev team is putting in far more effort, resources and manpower working on UO than in the last half-decade.

This is wonderful news for UO of course. Except that given EA's track record, don't be surprised if EA's execs suddenly pull the plug on UO (based on whatever bigwig corporate reasoning) at the height of UO.

As a UO player, I would like to know well in advance that UO was to be shut down.

Why ?

Because in that case I would adjust my game play accordingly.

Just to make an example, if I were to know that X months from now Ultima Online would be gone, I would by all means not spend my in game time any longer trying to get a 120 fishing Powerscroll, an activity which, between fishing and running quests is highly time consuming......

If the game has a future, I want to invest my time into getting that 120 fishing powerscroll but if the game will die X months from now, I think I deserve to know it from an official source to adjust what I want to do with my time in game, accordingly.

Furthermore, I am on the 6 months in advance subscription and so, I would need to at least know it 6 months before it happened in order to stop my credit card being charged or I would risk paying 6 months worth of subscription and not be able to play them because the game was shut down.

I have supported the game for years with my money and the least I can expect is that, as a paying customer, to be informed well before, of an eventual closing of Ultima Online.

So the question I need to ask is, as a UO player, is something going to change for Ultima Online or everything is fine and Ultima Online will keep going as it has for the past 13 years?

 

[Aurelius]

To be fair, the more time I spend on official forums for other games, the more I realize that negativity is the default demeanor of most MMO gamers.

Think that needs rather a lot of qualification...

Negativity is the default demeanour of a vocal minority of the, in turn, tiny minority of players of MMOs who actually post on forums.

Just because it's all that people see does not mean that it is all there is - and as long as devs remember what they see on forums, and what loudmouths scream and whine about at official events in-game, represents less than 1% of their playerbase, there's no problem.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Star Wars will not do well and EA etc are in for a wake up call. That failure may impact the entire company. How much? I'm not sure. Why will SW not do well? Listen, i've played a lot of MMO's. Nowadays I don't even need the BETA testing to tell me how the game will turn out. I read up on the direction they are going, what they will offer and ask lots of veteran MMO players what their take is.

SW: KoR will have the same problems as UO does, mainly, cheaters/dupers/scripters. Every MMO that EA has gotten ahold of, has become filled with them. EA is basically the Slum Lord of gaming companies. They don't give a damn how dirty the game gets or what kind of scum are in it, they only care about if they get their money.

The best comparison maybe EVE Online, but they have 100s of thousands of players and they have been working on allowing for battles that have thousands of players participating in at the same time, among many other things. That generates a lot, I don't know what a good term for it would be, content is not the right word. The other thing is that EVE Online is basically only one shard, and so you don't have the issues that other MMOs have where players are scattered across multiple shards that may see declines in population.

Actually, a better comparison would probably be Darkfall Online. Afterall, Darkfall Online was HEAVILY influenced by Pre-Tram UO, the Devs of Darkfall were oldschool UO PKs.

 

[popps]

SW: KoR will have the same problems as UO does, mainly, cheaters/dupers/scripters. Every MMO that EA has gotten ahold of, has become filled with them. EA is basically the Slum Lord of gaming companies. They don't give a damn how dirty the game gets or what kind of scum are in it, they only care about if they get their money.

AT least for me, Ultima Online has become a test bed to decide how to place my future purchases for multiplayer online computer games.

As of now, I am NOT pleased at all at how the cheating issue has been dealt with in Ultima Online and so, I think, I will place my future purchases accordingly.

I just do not see the point to play the same game where others can cheat so easily and not much is done about it. I mean, I would never sit on a table to play cards with others that I feel might be cheating, I just see no point to harm myself and get frustrated. I feel the same when it comes to play online multiplayer computer games with others.

If I have the feeling that any given Company might not have a strong stance against cheating in their games, I would be extremely wary in my future games' purchases.

 

[Woodsman]

Actually, a better comparison would probably be Darkfall Online. Afterall, Darkfall Online was HEAVILY influenced by Pre-Tram UO, the Devs of Darkfall were oldschool UO PKs.

EVE Online was also heavily influenced by UO as far as PKing, looting, etc. which is why so many hardcore PvPers are playing it.

You mentioned earlier that you'd like to know well in advance of the servers being shut down - I wonder if you didn't get a brief notice last fall when they decided to move to the booster pack concepts with High Seas and going lighter on the bug fixes and adding content. I was away from UO then, but that sure as hell felt like maintenance mode to me.

Things have changed a lot since last fall - bug fixes, fleshing out other areas, trying to balance the publishes. I take that as a good sign. If they were going to close it anytime in the next year, they wouldn't be doing that kind of stuff.

 

[Woodsman]

SW: KoR will have the same problems as UO does, mainly, cheaters/dupers/scripters. Every MMO that EA has gotten ahold of, has become filled with them. EA is basically the Slum Lord of gaming companies. They don't give a damn how dirty the game gets or what kind of scum are in it, they only care about if they get their money.

Star Wars is being treated differently though. The old EA would have already shipped Star Wars and then work on bug fixes. Right now the Star Wars release date is up in the air and EA doesn't seem to be pressuring them to pick a date.

Plus Star Wars could hit $300 million by the time it launches, if it hasn't already. That's not much - EA will spend $100 million just on advertising for their next major Battlefield game versus Activision's Call of Duty, but it's a significant amount for an MMO and it's EA's flagship online game, for better or for worse.

I agree that EA doesn't have a good reputation right now, but they seem to have changed course at some point earlier this year.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I feel so naive; I hadn't expected there to be so many posts in this thread which merely serve to prove my point.

There is to my mind a difference between being critical of how an idea is implemented ("this fiction is poorly written") and being critical of that idea ("the game shouldn't do fiction at all"). For another example: "we should not have to pay extra for brewing," versus "brewing? Who asked for what? The players, by which I mean me and my friends, want this other thing."

And the point we're at is closer to a consistent parade of the latter choice in either dichotomy. I suspect strongly that even if we didn't have to pay for brewing, the reactions would have been similar.

Let's say we woke up tomorrow and the game were perfect. Would we really care or notice? Note how few people have commented on the number of bug fixes in the upcoming Publish.

I've been critical of this team when I felt they have deserved it but the point is....If we continue on present course we won't know much longer when it's deserved versus when it's just something we do.

-Galen's player

 

[JC the Builder]

Actually, a better comparison would probably be Darkfall Online. Afterall, Darkfall Online was HEAVILY influenced by Pre-Tram UO, the Devs of Darkfall were oldschool UO PKs.

Darkfall online is hardly related to UO. EVE Online is so closely related to UO it is uncanny. Once you get past the whole UO is midevil fantasy and EVE is spaceships, everything from the PVP to the equipment to the economy to the crafting to the monsters to the player interactions, it is all UO. Even the open ended skill system is obviously heavily influenced by UO.

Darkfall is the Duke Nukem Forever of MMOs. It should never have been released.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

My biggest worry about this game has long-been irrationality on EA's part.

My 2nd biggest worry, however, is the time at which we players hit a tipping point, where everything is taken negatively. We've always been a rough bunch, but for the last couple of years it's day by day less of an exaggeration to say that we, collectively, take everything negatively.

Let's go over a few things.

We were given brewing, something which has been asked for for years, and yet the folks who'd long-asked for it were somewhere nowhere to be found. Plenty of detractors though, both who didn't like the implementation of the system and who attacked it being implemented at all when their pet preference wasn't.

We had a scenario where we were given regular fiction, and where we faced an enemy with deep roots in the Ultima canon. Again, things people have long-liked and long-asked for and they were greeted with negativity. Not all of the negativity was focused on the execution; a shocking amount of it (shocking to me anyway) focused on attacking the idea of fiction and the idea of scenarios. Where were the people to defend the idea, even if they criticized the implementation?

Stepping back a little further, we've gotten a flexible title system that we have a great deal of control over. Many years ago, we were told that titles were impossible (I looked up some old UO.com pages on the Internet archive). This change has generated very few complements.

Stepping back yet further, this team has been better than many better-liked teams at keeping the UO patch message up-to-date, until pretty recently This is quite good, as how many UO players don't go to Stratics, or even to UO.com. How many didn't even notice?

And finally....I have no website wherein I "definitively assert" that EA has stopped paying the UO servers. Further, what if I did? Just about anyone can make a website that definitively asserts all kinds of things. The fact that anyone could take this seriously speaks poorly to our collective state of mind: Things that are ridiculous on the face may seem way more credible to us than they should be. I had no idea just how bad things had gotten.

My biggest worry about this game is EA's abject irrationality as an institution, coupled with the fact that they don't understand UO or MMOs generally. And my second biggest worry, that the players will hit a tipping point where we quite literally hate everything, is fast-approaching. Luckily we are not there yet.

-Galen's player

Galen I actually think you hit a good point. I myself have become a bit cynical. That is because... I don't want all of this stuff. It is nice. It is fun but it fairly regularly comes out... is used... in two weeks there is little need for it.

Those things should be part of the game as just added ins. Not as content or game changers. However, it seems like those types of fixes have become the focal point for EA to improve the game. That aren't really improvements. They are just something to do for a week. How many kelp enchanted leggings are out there now!


The game is about characture growth and exploration. Aside from SA, they keep missing the mark. And even with SA the messed up by taking the need to go explore and get resource OUT OF SA. The put them in to other skills... and what did we do with that.

Tree scripters
Mining scripters
ETC ETC.

The need to go into SA was signficantly removed.

In a way we say we are dissatisfied and ask for stuff LIKE Spring Cleaning but that isn't something that will bring the game fever back. Its nice for a day to dump your stuff and get prizes. What does it do for the game?

 

[Pinco]

the more we have and more we wish..

When I was child I got a ball, and that's was a fun game.
Now we have a game very deep in contents, many things to do and there is nothing fun for many. Why?
Maybe the devs should stop add things and just fix the existing one so the people will appreciate more what we already have

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I'm with you, Galen. I never understood that either. I actually think most of the new features are pretty nice. However, all those features proved to be very secondary for me. Instead of worrying about brewing, players should worry much more about EA's plans to bring new players to the game. Because until today, I do not see any improvement at all. (Which is why I left UO again.)

 

[HD2300]

Instead of worrying about brewing, players should worry much more about EA's plans to bring new players to the game. Because until today, I do not see any improvement at all.

6 months since the announced new player 100mb client, 6 months since the the announced new player quests and new player town, 6 months since the announced new EC graphics revamp.

It is like deja vu with the anti-cheating promises and Classic shard astroturfing from last year.

 

[Nyses]

That's just it; there were people attacking the idea of it. Not just that we had to pay extra for it, but the idea of it.

Do you really think they just decided, "hey, UO players want brewing?"

No....People had, over the years, asked for it.

Going way back.

And when we finally got it, those people were silent.

*shrugs*

Irony, once again.

-Galen's player

Not Irony. There were Role players, years ago asking for Brewing. The real Irony is that it takes the Dev team so long to implement anything (other than "fixes" for stuff they plan on selling us, think white dye tub from High seas) that by the time they get it implemented, those who asked for it have largely given up and left UO. That is irony.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

You guys have such a short attention span.

I read every thread on here for 3 years now.

One person mentioned the brewing skill and actually made a short thread out of it (never caught on) but it originated in the classic shard thread.

Person said : why not take fun time to make additions like brewing instead of wasting it trying to build a classic shard (it wont work was their first argument, why ? because...)

It is so obvious what is going on that it pains me to realise you all still have no clue, game is not over folks.

I still would have made a political forum if I wanted to juggle with fire, but I admit that great minds coalesce here, the white juice from your spines, is much more refined than the common folk.

If you knew oblivion like I did, you would not doubt her memory, ever.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Real simple bottom line:

If anyone that considers themselves to be a veteran player really believes they have CONSISTENT influence over what the Devs do they are just plain foolish.

Deal with it or quit. The constant negativity on the boards and ingame is far, far more damaging to the game overall then the loss of a few disgruntled subscriptions/players.

IMO if anyone is so wrapped up in an MMORPG that they are quoting corporate policy/names/procedures they may have an addiction issue no?

The current UO world is still so massive and challenging that anyone(even a 14 year vet like myself)should be more then challenged and excited to play everytime they log on. If not, maybe it's time to move on or re-fill the ADD meds!!

Peace

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

How coincidential... that you'd declare yourself the devil's advocate *cough* Mr.Goldberg.

And that we post at the same time, and that before I'm finished writing you post about ADD... and that I accuse people here of being affected, but my purpose and communication's content is much different, is it ?

I wonder who's right...

What real harm can there be in a game that lives solely because of people's addiction to community (which is the only real thing we can refer to as a community "stratics") ?

I kinda get what you're trying to do here, and I don't beleive its a question of right or wrong, I was just kidding about being right.

Actually I'm quite a chaotic person, you see ?

 

[G.v.P]

The PvP changes on Test are fairly involved. I was pretty jaded about UO until the PvP changes. Was thinking the game might sink.

Problem we have is what we expect, what EA allows UO to do, and what other games allow. Game is running off of an idea from 1997. Every day of UO is new territory. But I like the recent changes so far, and how the 2D client is being upgraded rather than the EC. Nothing can replace the 2D client, that's what UO is. The only thing that will replace UO is a new game. Just the way nostalgia is.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I can not recall seeing a single topic or mention of anyone asking for brewing to be added.

I remember seeing a couple POSTS about it, like in wish lists or something - if it was Really wanted by a lot of players, there would be Many post/threads, and it'd be easy to remember - but which there weren't, so how/why do we have it? It was One ideal in a big bowl, they used it and said "we" wanted it.

If that's all it takes is a few posts, then I'll start a thread to get 5min God-Mode potions and 1mil checks instead of chocolate - pretty sure I can get 3-4 posts saying "I'll take one". don't forget T-hunters too. Many,many threads on how worthless they were - what did we get?? Many ended up deleting those skills , myself included.

Now we get: "get 'em in, get 'em out" scenario's - Brand New 35k hp mobs - wth, Cal?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

How coincidential... that you'd declare yourself the devil's advocate *cough* Mr.Goldberg.

And that we post at the same time, and that before I'm finished writing you post about ADD... and that I accuse people here of being affected, but my purpose and communication's content is much different, is it ?

I wonder who's right...

What real harm can there be in a game that lives solely because of people's addiction to community (which is the only real thing we can refer to as a community "stratics") ?

I kinda get what you're trying to do here, and I don't beleive its a question of right or wrong, I was just kidding about being right.

Actually I'm quite a chaotic person, you see ?

Too funny. That was a crazy coincedence.

But my reply was not intentionally directed to you at all. It was mostly based upon the OP & other vets who believe their $13 a month entitles them to something that they clearly not entitled to. Read TOS. It is all spelled out quite succinctly.

We as players are entitled to nothing other then a virtual world in which to roam around. Even the stability of the world itself is not guaranteed. Every vet should know this. If they do not know this or refuse to believe it there is always someone such as myself around willing to help clear things up. Because as much as I believe in everyone speaking their mind I sure get sick & tired of seeing all the negative bs on this board from the same people.

Peace

 

[Percivalgoh]

I am not so sure EA is irrational. They are still making money. As for the taking things negatively I don't do that but I am sure that regardless of how bad people think UO is they will just complain and continue playing since they are so addicted that they can't possibly quit (for long). There is a long history of just that happening. If by chance all of the negative players quit then maybe UO has a chance to draw new players.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

That is exactly the irony Mr. Galen's player *laugh* (who made lots and lots of progress in his philosophical maturity in the last years) is pointing to.

This is an issue of freedom against slavery.

Slavery in the sense of being forced into a particular system and having to play by the rules which are so politically correct and unrisky.

Let me quote Star Trek on this one, just to make sure I sound as nerdish as I like :

"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Starship Down (#4.6)" (1995)
[a torpedo has pierced the Defiant's outer hull]
Hanok: We sell these torpedoes to the Jem'Hadar.
Quark: I thought you said you never sold substandard merchandise.
[Hanok gives him a quizzical look]
Quark: This was supposed to explode on impact, wasn't it?
Hanok: ...Maybe I should offer them a refund.

[Hanok explains to Quark the Karemma way of doing business]
Quark: You make it sound so antiseptic. Where's the bargaining? Where's the scheming? Where is the greed?
Hanok: Greed leads to misjudgment. And that can result in a loss of profits.
Quark: If there's no risk, there's no thrill! Your way is just barter. If you wanna win big, you gotta be willing to play the odds. It's like gambling!
Hanok: Gambling is the last recourse of the desperate. Only a fool would risk losing what he has to chance.

Quark: I hate the Gamma Quadrant.

Quark: [to Hanok] I tried to cheat you, and I lost. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna give up the game.

Quark: The bigger the risk, the bigger the win!

Quark: I think we have a winner.
[after picking the right diode in a fifty-fifty chance to deactivate the torpedo warhead]

Quark: You know - there's another risk you could take. Stay in business with me.
Hanok: You never give up, do you?

I think there is a whole part of the dynamics at play here that you are missing. A big chunk at that...

If you think some people are being uselessly negative, you need to tell them, and outwit them so they cannot do anything about it but concur.

You are not taking this like you should. There is plenty of UO martyrs to choose from if you really need an example to understand how this is not an issue of positive or negative criticism.

This is an issue of slavery and freedom.

 

[Ludes]

I think some of it is just that people are much more likely to jump on here and say something when they are upset or mad about something.

Personally I love some of the new stuff.. High Seas is really cool, my fisherman has a life again, The treasure chest system is better now IMO. And EM's? well we never had EM's back in the day...

I've mentioned my likes often here as well as dislikes, but I admit when I like something I'm much more likely to just go play than to take the time to post a praise.

And as far as Ultima Online dying... UO will die when and ONLY when EA no longer feels it's profitable. Thats it. The bottom line. They ain't personally involved here. It's a profitable venture for them and it'll be here till that changes.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Hehe, thanks for saying the same thing everyone else says.

It's only about money, which is the irony here.

It's not that some people are utterly negative about the direction the game is taking, its a community thing.

Messana came in saying "for the love of the game" and now people are feeling cheated.

By trying to disprove of others who are long standing in this community and are negative for a good reason (putting them in the same bag) well you are only serving to examplify the depth to which this got.

Thats just it, they ARE personally involved here.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

That is exactly the irony Mr. Galen's player *laugh* (who made lots and lots of progress in his philosophical maturity in the last years) is pointing to.

This is an issue of freedom against slavery.

Slavery in the sense of being forced into a particular system and having to play by the rules which are so politically correct and unrisky.

Let me quote Star Trek on this one, just to make sure I sound as nerdish as I like :

"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Starship Down (#4.6)" (1995)
[a torpedo has pierced the Defiant's outer hull]
Hanok: We sell these torpedoes to the Jem'Hadar.
Quark: I thought you said you never sold substandard merchandise.
[Hanok gives him a quizzical look]
Quark: This was supposed to explode on impact, wasn't it?
Hanok: ...Maybe I should offer them a refund.

[Hanok explains to Quark the Karemma way of doing business]
Quark: You make it sound so antiseptic. Where's the bargaining? Where's the scheming? Where is the greed?
Hanok: Greed leads to misjudgment. And that can result in a loss of profits.
Quark: If there's no risk, there's no thrill! Your way is just barter. If you wanna win big, you gotta be willing to play the odds. It's like gambling!
Hanok: Gambling is the last recourse of the desperate. Only a fool would risk losing what he has to chance.

Quark: I hate the Gamma Quadrant.

Quark: [to Hanok] I tried to cheat you, and I lost. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna give up the game.

Quark: The bigger the risk, the bigger the win!

Quark: I think we have a winner.
[after picking the right diode in a fifty-fifty chance to deactivate the torpedo warhead]

Quark: You know - there's another risk you could take. Stay in business with me.
Hanok: You never give up, do you?

I think there is a whole part of the dynamics at play here that you are missing. A big chunk at that...

If you think some people are being uselessly negative, you need to tell them, and outwit them so they cannot do anything about it but concur.

You are not taking this like you should. There is plenty of UO martyrs to choose from if you really need an example to understand how this is not an issue of positive or negative criticism.

This is an issue of slavery and freedom.

1) The actual number of supposed "martyrs" has no bearing on the issue of negativity quite obviously having the potential to only hurt the game. Of course there are not many "martyrs" at all. It is just unfortunate that the few that are around feel the need to continually post. Let us all not forget that the opinions, right or wrong, expressed on the boards are of the vast minority(not majority)of actual UO players. Hell, half the nuts ranting dont even play anymore. How sad is that?

2) Assuming your first Slavery comment was not complete sarcasm, who is being "forced" to do anything?
We all received the same TOS and knew all the rules right upfront.

Play and have fun or quit. It is quite simple.

If you are playing this game for a reason other then to have fun then IMO you have no rights and should please just stfu. Correct me if I am wrong but if you are playing other then to have fun you are either doing it to make money(a complete no-no in TOS)or are just continuing to play due to hardcore addiction in which case you could never be satisfied. How can you satisfy a junkie?

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Edit : *in reply to ludes*

Hehe, thanks for saying the same thing everyone else says.

It's only about money, which is the irony here.

It's not that some people are utterly negative about the direction the game is taking, its a community thing.

Messana came in saying "for the love of the game" and now people are feeling cheated.

By trying to disprove of others who are long standing in this community and are negative for a good reason (putting them in the same bag) well you are only serving to examplify the depth to which this got.

Thats just it, they ARE personally involved here.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I would love if it were this simple. It would be on the UO official forum, where I would already be banned for being a pain in the arse.

But here, we have players who have held many accounts, for many years and who demand something simple, a SLIGHT fix. And yet its the noname who noone cares about (the only part of your argument I agree with) who stops playing who is heard.

Thats a BIG, and BURNING issue here, nothing transcient like you seem to imply.

And yes there are plenty of martyrs, who unwittingly were held up against the wall for being roleplayers. I have a few in mind, one is recent when I came back here. Some news reporter heavily involved in the creation of a theater on atlantic.

Some perfect example of humanity within a game, this player was pure SERVICE.

And where is he now ? He left the door angry as an ox, deleting ALL his roleplay posts one by one. Why ?

Oh thats an answer that was hard to come by, and I don't find it necessary to repeat myself.

These players who are willing to roleplay a ROLEPLAYING game, and rent many accounts sometimes 10 or more to uphold a community project... well they have no voice.

but its not strange, its not weird.

And exactly, the guardian *cough*... erm EA is not the culprit, since it is part of the Avatar ie: you.

You seem to have taken a glimpse of the tip of the summit of the iceberg.

It is true that the TOS always states gameplay may change, etc etc... we are not responsible for NOTHING.

Well okay, but what if you step over here, stratics.

The TRUTHFUL uo community, the one thats matured and endured all along and that always was at the heart of UO.

If you take your "Messiahna" and you have her step before us. You gotta make sure there is some integrity in the message you are sending forward.

This is just another example of how manipulated and EXPLOITED the uo community was. Yes its profitable ! You see we have 1 tenth of the service free games have and we are charged for it even !

The harm comes from right in your face, not these idiots who cannot help but share their every tought on the internet.

It comes to our door, and insults us directly, we take a stand.

We're not noobs or gullible.

There is always more than two options, you see, I am not having fun, I am not addicted, I am not making money.

Guess now... guess...