New URL Policy Revealed - UOGuide Complies (EA Rejects) [Updated Again, long title]

[Richtor Darkbane]

Guys, I understand that this policy is generating a lot of controversy, and, like all policies, it may get changed in the future. Right now, though, my goal is to make sure everybody understands what it is at this moment, so no one else gets banned unexpectedly. I'm not in a position to debate its merits right now, so while I hear you, I can't really respond to those concerns until I've had some time to bring them to people internally.

Thank you.

 

[D'Amavir]

Unless it involves EA hosting the sites (wouldn't work in our case) or sending us money, I'm rather stumped as to where an acceptable solution will be found.

First, I am behind you on this all the way. But, you could do like the poker sites do. Have blahblahblah.com as your site where you do any asking for donations or even selling items for real money. And have blahblahblah.net as the place you have that just gives some information. That one you could advertise in game. And you just know that some people will type in .com by mistake all the time. So you are getting them there while still not breaking the 'rules'. Which are pretty dumb to begin with.

I know that J says that you can have them on FoF because they could be checked out first, but can't you have a link be clean of any viruses or loggers forever and then change them to have that sort of thing at anytime? So, supply a clean link to FoF. Have it posted on said FoF. Go in and change said link to contain your nice little logger after its been listed as safe.

I don't know much about website building, but I do know devious.

 

[Budweiser]

* Waits for EA to pull the UO plug*



Remember when we used to be able to name our chars almost anything, Ban gm's from our house's untill a Lead GM showed up with uber non bannable powers and tossed everyone in jail.(when UO had GM's).???.. I admit I love the game but I hate what the game has become. This thread is just one more reason why I do play less and really won't care if one day I try and log in and I can't because EA has pulled the plug.


BTW.... I'd love to pk Jeremy in fel someday Just for fun of course!!

 

[Richtor Darkbane]

First, I am behind you on this all the way. But, you could do like the poker sites do. Have blahblahblah.com as your site where you do any asking for donations or even selling items for real money. And have blahblahblah.net as the place you have that just gives some information. That one you could advertise in game. And you just know that some people will type in .com by mistake all the time. So you are getting them there while still not breaking the 'rules'.

I think someone already suggested this, he said he does not wish to sell UO items or broker, he just wants help paying for the cost of running his fansite. Besides this kind of thing would be highly frowned upon.

 

[D'Amavir]

I think someone already suggested this, he said he does not wish to sell UO items or broker, he just wants help paying for the cost of running his fansite. Besides this kind of thing would be highly frowned upon.

I meant for any solo items he wants or even banner ads he wants to run. And frowned upon is not illegal. Until they say you cant say the words blahblahblah in game at least. Then they would have to ban quite a few words that people could use. UOForums, UOGuide, uo guide, uo forums, etc... Seems like a lot of work but anything to make EA suffer sounds good to me when it comes to this subject. If they are going to insist on these bannings, let them suffer for it as much as possible I say.

Since EA doesn't seem interested in supporting the sites that support them, few sites will end up supporting EA. At least in regards to UO. And fewer support sites will lead to fewer players. And so on and so on. Which seems to be what the overall goal is anyway. But thats another topic altogether.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Guys, I understand that this policy is generating a lot of controversy, and, like all policies, it may get changed in the future. Right now, though, my goal is to make sure everybody understands what it is at this moment, so no one else gets banned unexpectedly. I'm not in a position to debate its merits right now, so while I hear you, I can't really respond to those concerns until I've had some time to bring them to people internally.

Problem is, you're still inconsistent on your website, and according to the TOS that I agreed to, I don't have to go searching EA.com for a ROC that's more up to date than the one on the website for the game that I am paying for.

And you remain inconsistent with your enforcement. If you're going to take a hardline approach to the rule, you MUST take it evenly, not just say, "Well, since Stratics was our 'official' forum, it's okay, and the ages old UO Pro program is also okay..."

You don't seem to understand that there is inconsistent enforcement, and honestly, at this point, it really seems like you're playing hardball to cover a GM's inadequacy in enforcement of a policy. Because the policy doesn't make any sense as it's being enforced. Period.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

As long as you intend to address this internally then my only request beyond that is will you make it so your players see this policy on their splashscreen on login so they are aware of it? Not just uo.com but in bold upon login so they know that while it is something they once considered the "norm" it is not okay until further notice?

Not to offend, but they don't even use that form of communication in an appropriate manner. Current client patch notes are dated May 28, even though we've had client patches since, the last publish is listed as being Phase II Spring Cleaning from June 10 (we've had Phase III), and the last Origin publish as June 4. Quite simply, they don't keep it updated.

Then again, the last news from our "producer" was June 2007.

Mythic failure at communication.

 

[Flora Green]

There's a producer???

 

[Lady Michelle]

Cogniac actually has it half right, Bandwidth is an issue. However it is not the main issue. UOGuide is a dynamic website which requires a lot of processing power, physical memory and database accessing. That is what costs the big bucks.

Well anyways just look into it and see what they offer they might offer unlimited bandwith, and if it wont work for you for a website use it to store the uoguide pages at for a back up If the website you use now decides to shut down, and you lose all your pages.

Edited: JC If you had this code at the top of every page <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache"> your pages will load up alot faster. with the heavy traffic you get.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Michelle, no server offers free bandwidth in the amounts UOGuide requires. None. Period. Full stop. End of sentence. It just isn't done.

And I'm afraid disabling the cache on the wiki would MASSIVELY increase bandwidth usage, increasing page load times as well as server costs. Google up what that tag actually does.

So if some one makes a site UOxxxx.com that has no advertiving or selling of gold that is ok to link? What is that is the site that has the keyloger and trogens in it?

Why on earth would making a phishing-style uo site be ok? I'm confused as to where that idea came from.

Probably this, from just one week ago.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

JC, You've already been suspended once for linking to your site, which sells in-game items for Real Life $. Keep pushing the limits and you'll likely face a ban.

If I see your link pop up anywhere in-game, you will promptly be paged on. I'm tired of you skirting the rules in this game and getting away with it.

You've ran afoul of the TOS for long enough. A Zero Tolerance policy needs to be put into place for sites like yours, which sell items for cash. I don't care if you use the UO Guide site as a front; it's still not right.

 

[Ailish]

JC, You've already been suspended once for linking to your site, which sells in-game items for Real Life $. Keep pushing the limits and you'll likely face a ban.

If I see your link pop up anywhere in-game, you will promptly be paged on. I'm tired of you skirting the rules in this game and getting away with it.

You've ran afoul of the TOS for long enough. A Zero Tolerance policy needs to be put into place for sites like yours, which sell items for cash. I don't care if you use the UO Guide site as a front; it's still not right.

And this, folks, is why this policy (zero tolerance) is bad. JC complied with what he perceived to be the rule, yet this little troll comes out and PUBLICLY states he will page on JC just to grief him - even if he follows Jeremy's guidlines and says "go to uo.com and follow the link in the FoF to UO Guide, and even if JC is not the one to mention the site.

Sadly, what alot of people missed last week was the person who originally paged on him coming to uhall and PUBLICLY admitting that he only paged on JC to get back at him for being banned from JC's guild forums.

I do not personally like JC, not even a tiny bit; but being blatantly harrassed and having the TOC used as a weapon to grief people is just flat wrong.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Anyone who violates the TOS can be paged on -- that's not "harassment" or "griefing." JC was SELLING items on HIS SITE for REAL WORLD MONEY at one point. I don't think that's right, whatsoever!


Call me what you will, but he can't be allowed to do that in-game. It just can't be tolerated. There's a REASON why the GM SUSPENDED him last time. He was in VIOLATION of the TOS.

It doesn't matter who paged on him; the issue is, he violated the TOS and was slapped on the wrist for it. I'm just giving him fair warning that he shouldn't do that again.

He can choose to follow the rules and play this game according to the TOS that he agrees to every time he logs on OR he can not and face the consequences. The choice is entirely his own to make.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

ALSO, HERE is the link to where he is requesting DONATIONS: http://www.uoguide.com/UOGuide:Shoppe

This is a PURE VIOLATION of the TOS and is exactly what Jeremy is saying is unacceptable.

Sorry, JC, but EA can't make an exception for your site.

 

[MolaRom]

Are we still debating this point? I thought this was already resolved in JC's post about his suspension.

Here, let me make it simple for you: Post a Link to UO Guide and you will be banned.

No one doubts that your site is a valuable resource, but you need to cool out, JC. It's just not happening. Go advertise somewhere else. It doesn't belong in the game world.

 

[AesSedai]

- You like caps?

There is NOTHING WRONG with selling UO items for money!
NEVER has been.

But YOU are CORRECT that it IS NOT acceptable to advertise such things IN-GAME as it is against the UO ROC.

But was JC ever saying, nay was he ever spamming: Come to my website and buy my stuff?

Not from what I've noticed being publicly disclosed thus far.

And THAT is What YOU are TRYING to make it out to be...
---
Personally, I do not like how JC handles some things; for instance I have objected, MORE than once, regarding how he 'cries wolf' to try to bring attention to certain issues.
Seems like YOU are the one trying to manipulate the people THIS time with YOUR little ploys.

Yes, it has been unacceptable to advertise cash-for-UO sales when in-game... but it has ALWAYS been acceptable to sell the UO items you obtained for cash; Just as Jeremy has confirmed several times, and even in THIS thread, although indirectly.

Did the caps help any?
But did your link to his place gain him a few more hits?
---
Maybe he was deliberately skirting the rules, so to speak (although as much as he has told his 'jokes' & ~'lied' to us, I am still willing to believe, from having not been shown evidence to the contrary, that he was just trying to give people a chance to be aware of a positive UO community service aka uoguide), but you obviously have a deeper issue with him or you have a personal issue with people that buy and sell items for cash.
In a way, I can relate because I detest people that cheat. Nor do I like people that cheat and make money off of the game either; but I do not have any issues with buying and selling legitimately earned items for cash because it is a free market and time equates to money (did I mention I hate cheating? Because cheating takes time out of the time=money equation.)

 

[Bomb Bloke]

No one doubts that your site is a valuable resource, but you need to cool out, JC.

This from the person who openly referred to JC as "scum"? Unusually diplomatic...

Hey, do you and AmanitaMuscaria PM each other whenever you see a chance to troll against him? Or are you really the same person? This one's been bugging me for a while now.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

while the rule makes sence. Im not sure if its that efficent. technology triples by the second. you can get an absolute slew of virus on your computer by simply running activeX to play an embedded video. so its totally cool to put that on UO.com and it would comply with rules.

point blank, you surf the internet at your own risk. and if your playing UO and suring the internet without firewall/virus protection, maybe you should get a virus or two.

and most of all, i just stared at this thing for 45 minutes not knowing what the hell it was glad thats over.

 

[AesSedai]

- So you have also noticed how they tend to appear in threads at about the same time?
On another note, I had some barbeque today. Pork (the best, heh). Mm, I really like that stuff. I know it's not good for me, especially with all that saucy goodness; but sometimes I just have to devour it.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

The facts are facts:-

1) Was JC doing a community service with his site - YES
2) Is it a good site - YES
3) Did JC knowingly or other wise break the TOS - YES
4) Is Jc's site still breaking the TOS with advertising of sale of items for money - YES
5) Is JC's the only fan site doing this - NO
6) Are other sites complaining about not being able to advertise there site in game - NO
7) Could JC change his site in a way that made it comply with TOS - YES
8) Has JC been offered help by EA Mythic to do so - YES

At some point you have to step up and help yourself rather then expect changes to be made just for you.

The terms of service are in place to protect everyone equally and to be as fair as they can be, seriously how much more can we ask for. The protect us from scammers, dupers, hackers and thieves and they protect us from virus infections. And the only way to do it fairly is to have a blanket rule that everyone can conform to.

now can we stop beating a dead horse - obviously some people feel acceptions should be made and others feel the treatment is acceptable - the two sides are never going to agree but the facts are the facts and for now the rules are the rules its your choice wether you wish to follow them or not.

 

[Ash]

Wow, got to sit back and be amused at the people that are adamant about the enforcing of the no url for sites that accept donations, as the most adamant views towards UOGuide is clearly out of spite.

As I see it there are 2 reasons for the rule, the stated no advertising or soliciting of products or services either in game items for real life cash or external money making endeavors; and the non stated protection against sketchy websites.

Now the problem with the 2nd is that would mean absolutely no Urls should be allowed any time, any where and to include all guild websites. So will assume no one would want to ban all fan/guild sites, so let's over look that.

As to the money aspect, I read the rule as posted in ROC to be to prevent active marketing and soliciting for real life cash. That being said, sites such as UOGuide and UOForums are FREE sites that users can donate if they choose. In both cases there is a simple link that is not a banner, doesn't flash, no pop-ups to draw attention to, so I don't see that it is advertised, marketed or solicited, which is evident by the fact that so many people that use the sights on daily basis never noticed they were there. These are not pay to enter websites, they are free services that operators accept donations but do not make obvious marketing attempts.

To those that just want to hate on JC, get over yourselves. It is quite sad that you would go around threatening to page if you see hit site name, when I would be willing to bet you use the site yourselves since it has more updated information than stratics.

To the devs, fine rules are rules, but they do need to be changed. These fan sites that simply accept donations are not selling, marketing or soliciting they offer a free service and offer a method for those that choose to donate. There is no enhanced services or exchange of items of any sort.

 

[Nexus]

Apparently, you misunderstand the situation. The issue is not how much hard drive space you get to store the website (UOGuide has 50GB [50,000MB] of space to work with) because hard drive space is cheap.

What is not cheap, however, and what is the actual issue at hand here, is bandwidth costs. You can have a full 50GB of website content, and if 0 people visit your site, it will barely cost your host anything. Now imagine that your site gets nearly 3,500,000 page views like UOGuide has received. Now let's imagine that each page on your website is about 50KB in size. Those 3,500,000 page views then translate into 175GB (175,000MB) that has to be transferred from the host's server to the various people viewing the site. That is what costs the big money.

I can get hosting that covers more than that for less than $100 a year. Actually I'm paying $60 a year for 120 GB of hard drive space and 1200GB of monthly transfer. Solution might not be donations it might be that these people are using rotten hosts. Maybe its time for some of these folks to look around for a better hosting solution.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

This is clearly the case of certain truly illegal sites getting back at EA by grieving sites like UOGuide. I hope that the policy or its enforcement is not watered down but instead the inclusion list is expanded upon.

There are not that many quality UO fansites out there that require advert for running. It would not be that hard to simply add them to the official allowed list. I just don't understand wherein lies the difficulty in doing so.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

Was it not said some where in the thread that JC was selling items for real money to fund his site and was this not advertised on his site?

And sorry it doesn't matter how undemanding the link to make donations is, it is still there and still asking for money there for soliciting.

And uoforums has a trade section of there forum where they say it is legitimate to sell items for money you just cant say it in game but here is a forum to do so???

And I am totally not hating on JC or Adam I think both sites are great, do I visit them yes, BUT I do not link them on my site because they break TOS and thats just a fact.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

I can get hosting that covers more than that for less than $100 a year. Actually I'm paying $60 a year for 120 GB of hard drive space and 1200GB of monthly transfer. Solution might not be donations it might be that these people are using rotten hosts. Maybe its time for some of these folks to look around for a better hosting solution.

I said pretty much the same thing but was told I did not know what I was talking about...yet they would not answer if they had looked into other alternatives just that it was not possible.

There are many OPtions for JC and others to cover there costs and still keep within the TOS they just do not want to they would rather the rules changed to suit them.

 

[It Lives]

Just post here about how unfair the in game tos is once a day to get all the attention ya need. Who at that point needs to advertise their out of game business in game?

 

[AdamD]

I can't understand what's so complex about drawing up a simple list of websites which support the UO community and listing them on UO.com

Richtor listed a simple, yet effective listing that could be used.

But, I don't believe anything will change
I've been emailing Jeremy and Bob for over a year now about the lack of fansite program and nothing has changed
Warhammer, even though it's not been released yet, already has a fansite program running, complete with fansite URL list and and an extensive fansite kit.


My advice for those who want to push EA for a change in policy and bring about true FAIRness for all fansites, that they email Bob (robert mull), he's the community director.

([email protected])

 

[JC the Builder]

3) Did JC knowingly or other wise break the TOS - YES
4) Is Jc's site still breaking the TOS with advertising of sale of items for money - YES
6) Are other sites complaining about not being able to advertise there site in game - NO
7) Could JC change his site in a way that made it comply with TOS - YES
8) Has JC been offered help by EA Mythic to do so - YES

All these "facts" are wrong. I didn't knowingly break the ROC (we are talking about Rules of Conduct here, not Terms of Service), I am not currently breaking the ROC by selling items on the site, I changed the site to comply with this new rule (which is not in the ROC), other sites will be complaining in the near future because virtually none comply with this and thus far I have recieved no suggestions as to how to pay for UOGuide's upkeep in a way that complies with this new policy.

 

[HD2300]

Your webhosting provider is too expensive.

Try http://www.3ix.com/ for $1 per month or just type webhosting cheap into Google.

 

[Richtor Darkbane]

I can get hosting that covers more than that for less than $100 a year. Actually I'm paying $60 a year for 120 GB of hard drive space and 1200GB of monthly transfer. Solution might not be donations it might be that these people are using rotten hosts. Maybe its time for some of these folks to look around for a better hosting solution.

What kind of processor usage does this cover? Yes $60 a year for hosting is the cheapest I've ever heard of, but have you ever heard the saying "You get what you pay for.". I'm willing to bet this unnamed hosting has a low uptime, crappy or no customer service, and in the fine print I'm almost sure there are big fees for high processor usage.

I meant for any solo items he wants or even banner ads he wants to run. And frowned upon is not illegal.

Since EA doesn't seem interested in supporting the sites that support them, few sites will end up supporting EA. At least in regards to UO. And fewer support sites will lead to fewer players. And so on and so on. Which seems to be what the overall goal is anyway. But thats another topic altogether.

I don't see how fewer players is a good thing?

Well anyways just look into it and see what they offer they might offer unlimited bandwith.

JC If you had this code at the top of every page <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache"> your pages will load up alot faster. with the heavy traffic you get.

Bandwidth is still not the issue here...? Hello? And did you research that tag at all? It would not decrease load time, this markup would increase work on the server, it literally forces calling from the server every time a page is loaded.

JC, You've already been suspended once for linking to your site, which sells in-game items for Real Life $. Keep pushing the limits and you'll likely face a ban.

If I see your link pop up anywhere in-game, you will promptly be paged on. I'm tired of you skirting the rules in this game and getting away with it.

You've ran afoul of the TOS for long enough. A Zero Tolerance policy needs to be put into place for sites like yours, which sell items for cash. I don't care if you use the UO Guide site as a front; it's still not right.

Anyone can see from this post that YOU have a PROBLEM with JC that has NOTHING to DO with THIS. I am just curious how is he running afoul the TOS for so long. I have been visiting UoGuide for a long time, and I would hardly say that the guide is a "front" for the small item shop. I never once went to the page and said "I just want to know about rune beetles but I can't get around this damn item shop!", the funny part is actually to the contrary I never knew it was there for the longest time.

ALSO, HERE is the link to where he is requesting DONATIONS.

This is a PURE VIOLATION of the TOS and is exactly what Jeremy is saying is unacceptable.

Sorry, JC, but EA can't make an exception for your site.

The banner ads on the top of stratics is not a 'PURE' violation of the TOS? What about 'Startics Plus' that cost real money too! I think if your such a crusader against PURE rule VIOLATORS you should take a look up.

Anyone who violates the TOS can be paged on -- that's not "harassment" or "griefing." JC was SELLING items on HIS SITE for REAL WORLD MONEY at one point. I don't think that's right, whatsoever!

I'm glad you DON'T decide what the RULES are whatsoever, there would be no fansites at ALL.

Go advertise somewhere else. It doesn't belong in the game world.

The part that doesn't make since here is that it's a guide for help with the game. It kind of does belong in the game world just like Stratics.

The facts are facts:-

1) Was JC doing a community service with his site - YES
2) Is it a good site - YES
3) Did JC knowingly or other wise break the TOS - YES
4) Is Jc's site still breaking the TOS with advertising of sale of items for money - YES
5) Is JC's the only fan site doing this - NO
6) Are other sites complaining about not being able to advertise there site in game - NO
7) Could JC change his site in a way that made it comply with TOS - YES
8) Has JC been offered help by EA Mythic to do so - YES

At some point you have to step up and help yourself rather then expect changes to be made just for you.

The terms of service are in place to protect everyone equally and to be as fair as they can be, seriously how much more can we ask for. The protect us from scammers, dupers, hackers and thieves and they protect us from virus infections. And the only way to do it fairly is to have a blanket rule that everyone can conform to.

Uh I have been complaining for a while now, so FACT #6, isn't really a fact, as the answer should be yes, as many know I have completely removed my UoGuild.com website that was a free service for guilds to showcase themselves and recruit members, but I had a donation button, and I don't wish to be responsible for anyone getting suspended, so I have completely removed all of my sites accept for my guild page, which I modified heavily to fit these TOS.

You say it's there job to protect us from Scammers/Hackers/Dupers/Thieves?/Virus Infections. That might be true in the game, but as far as on the internet people need to educate themselves as to how to be protected from these things, stratics used to have some great guides on this, and people who are trying to do this stuff in game should be banned, not the fansites that have nothing to do with any of it.

This is clearly the case of certain truly illegal sites getting back at EA by grieving sites like UOGuide.

Exactly, and it's the whole 'I don't like this person how can I twist the RoC/ToS to get them in trouble.' thing.

There are many OPtions for JC and others to cover there costs and still keep within the TOS they just do not want to they would rather the rules changed to suit them.

Then list these specific options that would cover the costs and let them provide the same quality in service, and how do you know what they want, are you in their head?

 

[Harlequin]

ALSO, HERE is the link to where he is requesting DONATIONS: <URL Removed>

This is a PURE VIOLATION of the TOS and is exactly what Jeremy is saying is unacceptable.

Sorry, JC, but EA can't make an exception for your site.

Erm...

http://vboards.stratics.com/faq.php

O. Activities that are against any games' Terms of Service or the User Agreement are prohibited from being promoted or advertised on our network. This includes, but is not limited to, third party programs, game item sales for real world goods, power leveling services, and/or links to such items.

To the mods - I am just raising a point, not asking for punitive actions on anyone.

So...posting a link to a page that you know is selling items for real money...You are knowingly breaking the TOS for Stratics.

Am I griefing by pointing this out? Would you think that I am? Would other people? Or am I taking advantage of an innocent post?

While I can't say how big a can of worms EA have just opened, as a community, folks should know what is right and what is wrong. Acts like this serves no purpose except to destroy the community - this includes JC pointing out the link in UOForums. If you want EA to spell out exactly where all OB markers are, it will be akin to a police state. With whistle blowers snitching on each other.


An alternate turn of events in hindsight:
1) The person that paged could have just given the link on JC's profile barely a second thought like others.

2) Person that paged on JC could just as easily messaged him on the transgression.

3) JC could have just removed the Shoppe page on his site then, instead of just the link in his profile.

4) JC could have just maintained his post in a positive mood to inform people that there seems to be a change in EA's stance

Instead, someone wanted to avenge a past slight. Victim cried foul. And it degenerated into a case where - "Hey, why he can do this while other people can't? I want that person punished and made miserable!" (I am accusing both the original pager and the victim). People took sides, pandemonium ensued.

Instead of "Hey, lets work together and see if we can constructively build on this and make it better. That way eveyone ends up happy".

Not sure if am am making sense to everyone...

 

[Connor_Graham]

This whole thread is one big joke.

So much fuss raised over something so insignificant to the big picture.

 

[LadyNico]

So how do you propose UOguide supports itself.

Frankly, what strikes me as absurd is the expectation that anyone else but UOGuide should support UOGuide.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I can't understand what's so complex about drawing up a simple list of websites which support the UO community and listing them on UO.com

Well they kinda-sorta do, through the Five on Friday, don't they?

At any rate, as to why they don't have a formalized "community support" pre-approved sites or something like that, I think I may have 1 or 2 intelligent guesses as to why they don't do this.

1. Accusations of favoritism. It doesn't matter how much money and time UOGuide and UOForums have invested in them, how useful they are. Someone will still claim that they are listed and "Bob'5 AwE5oM3 uO sIt3" is not due to favoritism. And I guarantee you that enough people on these boards will agree with that ridiculousness that it'll become a 3-page thread.

2. Liability. Any site can be hacked. UOLS.net was hacked into oblivion, multiple times, and stared to give people viruses at the end. Remember UOStuff getting hacked with Asian spam and links to Asian sites (which I assume was probably porn or viruses but I didn't check)? Want to be that someone will try and claim that EA's partly responsible for damage to their computer if "approved" fan sites get hacked? Will these claims stand? Probably not. But....Will there be enough people who agree to make a 3-page thread on Stratics? Probably. Especially in the present climate.

While I'm mostly on JC's side here, we all really do need to see that this isn't as easy as it would be in a rational environment.

Personally I think JC should simply not advertise UOGuide in-game and keep right on asking for donations on his site. Someone who is directed to Stratics, which is still legal, is going to find out about UOGuide. It's linked to all the time here. Ditto for UOForums.

-Galen's player

 

[Demonous]

most uo players know about stratics and uo guide already so theres no need to mention them in game

 

[Tabbitha]

This whole thread is one big joke.

So much fuss raised over something so insignificant to the big picture.

and yet EA have put so much time and effort into its no enforcement

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yeah, telling GM's to stick to the letter of the law takes a whole bunch of time.

Maybe they made a 2 hour long oratory to each GM individually just so it would take even more time.

 

[Tabbitha]

Yeah, telling GM's to stick to the letter of the law takes a whole bunch of time.

like banning scripting is taking ?

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

This whole thread is one big joke.

So much fuss raised over something so insignificant to the big picture.

I agree. This thread should be locked.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

The policy makes good sense, except for stratics "white list" exception. Not trying to dog stratics here, but if no one else can apply for white list status, then stratics should not be allowed to have it either, in the interest of fairness.

all ads on stratics are easily blocked by using the hosts file provided here by Microsoft MVP's

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

 

[AirmidCecht]

I can't understand what's so complex about drawing up a simple list of websites which support the UO community and listing them on UO.com

Richtor listed a simple, yet effective listing that could be used.

But, I don't believe anything will change
I've been emailing Jeremy and Bob for over a year now about the lack of fansite program and nothing has changed
Warhammer, even though it's not been released yet, already has a fansite program running, complete with fansite URL list and and an extensive fansite kit.


My advice for those who want to push EA for a change in policy and bring about true FAIRness for all fansites, that they email Bob (robert mull), he's the community director.

([email protected])

A fansite program would at the very least greatly diminish this debate. How many complaints and bannings were there before the program was removed?

While others are crying for a thread lock, I disagree. A lot was accomplished last night with Jeremy in discussing this openly. It gives her a lot of feedback to approach others internally as she said. My thanks to Jeremy for her willingness to listen!

 

[JC the Builder]

An alternate turn of events in hindsight:
1) The person that paged could have just given the link on JC's profile barely a second thought like others.

2) Person that paged on JC could just as easily messaged him on the transgression.

The person who paged on me did so because he was looking for a way to get me suspended. He did not care one bit about whether UOGuide was a legal site, he did so to get back at me for suspending him from our guild website.

3) JC could have just removed the Shoppe page on his site then, instead of just the link in his profile.

I didn't remove it until the policy was announced. There is no point in guessing at what EA wants. Because guess what happens? When you go to comply, EA says "oh no, you have to do this also". Which has happened even though I fully complied with what the policy said. Now they say you can't take direct donations.

4) JC could have just maintained his post in a positive mood to inform people that there seems to be a change in EA's stance

I was happy to comply with the policy, which is why I started this topic. Then Jeremy comes in with a curve ball and says no direct donations. Who is EA to dictate what we can and can not do on our website? We comply with all game rules and regulations. We don't list cheats, bugs, exploits. We keep the site focused on UO. This is just completely unjustified control that EA is trying to wrangle around our necks.

I even have kept the disclaimer required under the old fansite program in the bottom of every UOGuide page. That is something I have done in good faith even though the program was abolished. Now EA wants even more? I think I should just remove it.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

I agree with JC on his last post. Customer Service fails miserably when it comes to being sensitive to the nuances of any situation. They think everyone is just running around playing UO by themselves and that no one has a relationship or history with another player.

 

[AdamD]

2. Liability. Any site can be hacked.

And what of the banner adverts here, which in the past, have infected people's computers with trojans? (See - http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=98712&highlight=trojan)

UOLS, from memory, used a rather dated system of a portal mixed with phpbb and Tal moved onto other things, so it was inevitable that it'd fall into disrepair and getting hacked into.

And no offence intended towards anyone in paticular, but you should refrain from pointing out "Cheap webhosting" for sites such as UOguide/UOforums, as it's clear you don't know how complex the software is and the demands it places on a server.
A simple html website or whatnot works fine on a shared hosting platform, but when you involve databases and php coding, do things require a bit more oompf
A cheap hosting solution is basically people offering outrageous amounts of bandwith and diskspace, for a bargain price
That price is cheap, because they cram as many people onto a server as they can and HOPE no one uses all their allocated resources.
Overloaded servers are BAD for sites which use wiki's and forums.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

The fact of the matter is that JC's site simply does not comply with the terms set by EA. End of story.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

I have a very specific question for Jeremy. Everyone knows about the vendor searching website and the scam artist broker that is running it. This guy probably does not even pay taxes IRL.

EA allows this guy to operate yet will ban anyone who mentions the URL in game.

Instead, EA should unban everyone who has mentioned the URL in game, ban the 5 million accounts he probably has, delete all of his items then report him to the IRS.

 

[JC the Builder]

The fact of the matter is that JC's site simply does not comply with the terms set by EA. End of story.

I think we got you the first five times. No one is replying to you because your opinion doesn't carry weight anymore.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

The fact of the matter is that JC's site simply does not comply with the terms set by EA. End of story.

neither does Stratics.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

And what of the banner adverts here, which in the past, have infected people's computers with trojans? (See - http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=98712&highlight=trojan)

this is why everyone should use a hosts file.

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I think we got you the first five times. No need to keep posting the same thing over and over. No one is replying to you because your opinion doesn't carry weight anymore.

Same with you, JC. You've said the same thing at least ten times. We all understand your viewpoint and feelings on this matter.

I vote we lock this thread. EA has responded with an official response, JC has stated his opinion numerous times, and it's getting to the point where it's no longer productive.

And the funny thing is, you say no one replies, but you JUST DID!