24 hour banning for say an URL in game

[Lord Drakelord]

K, someone I know sent me a message, warning that we cannot say certains URL in game, as it will result in being banned from the game. Seems they were on another shard shopping and spoke this URL as a place to see prices in game on the Luna vendors. You all know what I am speaking of, so becareful, this person got a 24 hour banning for saying this URL in game.

 

[Sindris]

Thats Stupid.

 

[UOKaiser]

Yea best thing to do is never say url in game of anything they come down on that or any keywords that will help facilitate anything they might not like.

 

[NewThunder]

Thats Stupid.

It is not stupid, it is EA trying to protect their players form being lead to harmful websites. This has happened in the past.

 

[Satanatra]

Bans are permanent. 24 hours is a suspension. There are good reasons not to advertise urls in-game = trojans and viruses to hack peoples accounts.

Be a little more dramatic...

 

[Fink]

K, someone I know sent me a message, warning that we cannot say certains URL in game, as it will result in being banned from the game. Seems they were on another shard shopping and spoke this URL as a place to see prices in game on the Luna vendors. You all know what I am speaking of, so becareful, this person got a 24 hour banning for saying this URL in game.

Is that any url or just the known dodgey ones?

I have a rough collection of webpages I'm cobbling together into a fan site, but there aren't any unsavory elements in it - no cheats/hacks/scripts or encouragement thereof, no trojans/viruses/worms etc, no rl cash sales/transactions or links to such. I think that's pretty safe with regard to the general thrust of Mythic policy. Or I would hope so..:bowdown:

It would be a pretty sad day all round if someone copped a suspension for referring to my Camping guide.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Sorry about your friends 24 hour bann, but I agree that no urls should be given out in the game at all. I feel its to protected players from going to a shady url that will put keyloggers trojans etc on their pcs, less hacked accounts the better for us all.

 

[Maplestone]

Hey, how about a better solution: don't use sites that violate the ToS.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

ok, I posted this to let you all know that saying such sites in game will get you in hot water, as for the site, people been using it for a long time to see Luna vendors on every shard. I will admit I have even used it to get a pricing idea on how much to charge for certain artifacts by checking other shards listing. But you can bet, I will never say any URL in game after hearing this today.

 

[lucitus]

but it is allowed to share http://www.uoherald.com/kingdomreborn/ ingame isnt it?

 

[Crysta]

I thought it was common knowledge by now.. has been in the rules as long as I can remember that the in-game advertising of websites (which includes giving URLs, even if not for advertising) is against the rules.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

I thought it was common knowledge by now.. has been in the rules as long as I can remember that the in-game advertising of websites (which includes giving URLs, even if not for advertising) is against the rules.

Then fan sites such as Stratics or UOforums, or guild forums such as PAS also would fall in those areas.

 

[Crysta]

Yep. Justice is blind, remember?

 

[Sarphus]

The punishment sounds perfectly acceptable. It's only a suspension.

 

[smip]

K, someone I know sent me a message, warning that we cannot say certains URL in game, as it will result in being banned from the game. Seems they were on another shard shopping and spoke this URL as a place to see prices in game on the Luna vendors. You all know what I am speaking of, so becareful, this person got a 24 hour banning for saying this URL in game.

It's ALWAYS been against the TOSS to spam URL's.

 

[AdamD]

It's ALWAYS been against the TOSS to spam URL's.

They have, on occasion, made exceptions
Although this was before Mythic took over UO
When UOforums ran an EA sponsored contest, we asked for permission to mention the URL in game and it was granted, but on the condition we didn't spam it over and over.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Thats Stupid.

yeah it is stupid but EA allows the website to sit there and search vendors. that is what is even more stupid. lol

they ban people for using a website that they refuse to shut down. what a disaster.

what is even more of a farce is that UO should have a damn search engine in the first place.

so pathetic.

 

[Kula]

AOL and MSN should ban everyone who PMs me with a URL.

 

[Sarphus]

yeah it is stupid but EA allows the website to sit there and search vendors. that is what is even more stupid. lol

they ban people for using a website that they refuse to shut down. what a disaster.

what is even more of a farce is that UO should have a damn search engine in the first place.

so pathetic.

No they don't.

I SUSPEND people for advertising websites in game (clearly against the ToS)

 

[drinkbeerallday]

so you are a GM that takes actions against people's accounts for sharing URL's in game? is that what you are saying?

 

[UOKaiser]

Lots of problems came in the past whith URL's So many that the best policy was to just stop all of them all at once. Instead of going through all of them 1 at a time or dedicating so much time to all the problems that came from them.

 

[monnie101]

That kinda stinks for people wanting to let others know about their fan site. I have a little web page for a few games I play including UO. It just shows my house and stuff my shop sells.

 

[wee papa smurf]

I remeber a certain shopkeeper on Europa standing in the middle of brit gating to there shop spamming there website, and im pretty sure they still do it so im pretty sure its not illegal! And yea freedom of speech lolol!!

 

[Winker]

And people ask…I wonder why no one ever plays anymore? Freedom of speech is easier in Russia ffs

 

[Revenant2]

As a matter of common sense, players should not be harrassed for having a personal conversation in which the most common uo search and find websites are referenced.

Little abuses like this add up in people's minds over time, and its unnecessary.

edit: that customer could even get pissed off and leave. bleh.

 

[Sarphus]

so you are a GM that takes actions against people's accounts for sharing URL's in game? is that what you are saying?

If you are talking to me, I am most certainly not a GM or EA employee for that matter. I'm just going by the facts.

* A minor infraction was committed
* A minor punishment was given (24 hour suspension is NOT a big deal... go watch the olympics or something)

I would be against a perma-ban for posting a website, but this was just a suspension to enforce the rules. Maybe a warning would have been a better punishment, but I don't see a 1 day suspension as being a serious punishment.

 

[Yalp]

Do I get this right? We can't get decent GM support when we have a game issue but they are monitoring our in game speech to enact suspensions? Does no one else think this is a little beyond belief?

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[Arabella]

Yes I actually do believe that! Remember who you are dealing with!

Oh better yet, add that to the list of things your not suppose to do in game and then add it to the TOS, but make sure it is written in such a manner that everyone understands. Because I sure didnt know that was illegal to do ingame either.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

This is actually the second such banning I have heard of, another one was during someone's guild meeting they where actually warning there guild members not to be suckered in and to vist certain trading sites as it is dangerous to your account and against the Terms....and they supposedly got a ban for saying the word "Duped"........I do not know if its totally true or not but this is what I have heard.

I am a bit disheartened that they are going to such lengths over our speech yet I can stumble into a bank today and see a dead pet with a totally offensive name just sitting there.....over an hour later I finally got a response saying they might do something about it and that I wont know due to privacy.......yet they are invading ours or at least focusing on what we say in some instances yet in other ways they are totally lax....I think a bit of Constancy is needed.

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Hail Britannians & Sosarians,

Just a general response:

Our beloved lands of Ultima Online are part of a virtual reality intended for massive numbers of player-characters to Role-Play within. Speak in that world as though they are the only known worlds and you should be just fine.

Aha, of course, my owl just whispered to me to add the following:

Also follow and enthusiastically obey the TOS & ROC directives.

Enjoy our lands as best you are able.

An SoS

 

[Amathist of PoC]

I thought it was common knowledge by now.. has been in the rules as long as I can remember that the in-game advertising of websites (which includes giving URLs, even if not for advertising) is against the rules.

Does this include guild websites? because we often send people to our guild website to register for our guild and our forums.....and does this include advertising your icq numbers? I just want to know how far they are going with the bans and rules.

 

[Crysta]

It's any URL, really. SO you can say it if you want, but if someone reports it that's all. It's ALWAYS been that way, so it's not like its anything you've not done before, most likely, even if you didn't know.

And really.. isn't openly advertising your ICQ number a stupid move anyway?

 

[Amathist of PoC]

It's any URL, really. SO you can say it if you want, but if someone reports it that's all. It's ALWAYS been that way, so it's not like its anything you've not done before, most likely, even if you didn't know.

And really.. isn't openly advertising your ICQ number a stupid move anyway?

A) I actually didn't know you where not alloud to say ANY URL in game because I have seen guild websites given out before and for example game radio sites...both of which are harmless

B) I wasn't saying openly I am talking about when I have someone seeking to join my guild - I give them our website and I give them my icq number. And when doing so I had no idea I was doing anything wrong.

And if the above is true it seems I can not even go to our guild hall and say to them privately here is our site go join and here is my icq number.

Am I aloud to add them to my profile?

 

[the 4th man]

It's their game.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Has nothing to do with freedom of speech It has to do with who owns UO and who sets up the rules for the game. If they dont want urls or certain words being said in the game that is their choice not ours, but they need to make it crystal clear on what words are not allowed to be said.

 

[Gildar]

Unless you EA specifically tells you otherwise, the only way you are approved to give a non-EA website in game is through the guild interface (and that website needs to be appropriate).

From the UO ToS:
http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=347

8. With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.
...
11. You may not arrange for the exchange or transfer of any pirated software or other contraband while you are using the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site, or use the Ultima Online service or web site for any other illegal purpose. You will not post the web site address (URL) to any sites which contain sexual material, content which could harm or disrupt another user’s personal network and computer, or content which violates the Electronic Arts Terms of Service.

If the URL violates rule 11, you'll probably get a suspension and/or a ban.
If the URL violates rule 8 (which is any URL that isn't owned by EA, basically - by giving the website you're promoting that website), you'll probably get a warning and a mark on your account saying you've been warned the first time (though I make no promises on this - I'm just guessing based on what I've seen in the past; don't go saying "but Gildar told me I could!" if you do get a suspension or ban for giving somebody a URL in game).

 

[Sarphus]

Has nothing to do with freedom of speech It has to do with who owns UO and who sets up the rules for the game. If they dont want urls or certain words being said in the game that is their choice not ours, but they need to make it crystal clear on what words are not allowed to be said.

People toss around the tern "freedom of speech" pretty flippantly without knowing what it means. Like those idiots that stand up during a speech and start yelling obnoxiously and then complain that they got kicked out of the event because they were just exercising their free speech. You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theater. You can be kicked out of an event if you are being disruptive.

You can most certainly be kicked out of a game server for violating their rules.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

Unless you EA specifically tells you otherwise, the only way you are approved to give a non-EA website in game is through the guild interface (and that website needs to be appropriate).

From the UO ToS:
http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=347



If the URL violates rule 11, you'll probably get a suspension and/or a ban.
If the URL violates rule 8 (which is any URL that isn't owned by EA, basically - by giving the website you're promoting that website), you'll probably get a warning and a mark on your account saying you've been warned the first time (though I make no promises on this - I'm just guessing based on what I've seen in the past; don't go saying "but Gildar told me I could!" if you do get a suspension or ban for giving somebody a URL in game).

My understanding of the begining of rule 8 where it states with the EXCEPTION of - for in game goods and services - would include guild websites would it not? And rule 11 pretty much says as long as it doesnt contail sexual material or pirated software.

Is there a way to get someone from EA to make this absolutely clear?

 

[Gildar]

My understanding of the begining of rule 8 where it states with the EXCEPTION of - for in game goods and services - would include guild websites would it not? And rule 11 pretty much says as long as it doesnt contail sexual material or pirated software.

Is there a way to get someone from EA to make this absolutely clear?

The website is an out of game service.
Yes, EA could and should be more clear about it.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

The website is an out of game service.
Yes, EA could and should be more clear about it.

oh man this is confusing....because yes it is an out of game site but its for an in game service and it says the exception is you can promote and market in game items and services.

I think if anyone is banned for promoting there guild its a tad wrong especially given how unclear those rules are - honest mistakes or misinterpretations can so easily happen.

Is there a ruling or opinion on giving ICQ numbers out in game? Does this fall into the same category?

 

[Amathist of PoC]

I just had another thought - Does this mean the end for sites like WRR? Because they can not advertise themselves or there games because of URLs in game. Does this mean we cant even say "Go check out stratics"?

 

[Amathist of PoC]

just sent this PM to Jermy of EA Mythic on stratics -

please take the time to read this thread and give a really clear answer because no one seems to really know for 100% and it is open to interpritation.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=95269

it is mainly the last couple of posts about guild urls I am in need of an answer too.

I really hope I get an answer as this does not only affect guilds it affects - Auction Houses, Player Run Event Sites, Gamer Radio Stations, Even some sites that just offer information and quest details....surely some of these can be seen as GOOD for the community and are there for allowed.

 

[Katlene]

This is all absurd!
Theres been many times when someones asked me, 'How do i do this?' So I send them to that useful place with help on quests and items etc.
Ive attended player run auctions where the list of items has been advertised on their own websites because you can guarentee the list will be there for anyone anytime, you cant to that with a book that will decay after x amount of time.
Unless ea/mythic are going to start giving people access to their 'approved' sites then have the man power to sift through everything to make sure its ok then they need to ease up.
And seriously, there are much better things that they can be doing with thier time other then banning people for something not worth it.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

This is all absurd!
Theres been many times when someones asked me, 'How do i do this?' So I send them to that useful place with help on quests and items etc.
Ive attended player run auctions where the list of items has been advertised on their own websites because you can guarentee the list will be there for anyone anytime, you cant to that with a book that will decay after x amount of time.
Unless ea/mythic are going to start giving people access to their 'approved' sites then have the man power to sift through everything to make sure its ok then they need to ease up.
And seriously, there are much better things that they can be doing with thier time other then banning people for something not worth it.

Can a claws not be added to say something like all NON profit sites are ok or only sites not containing third party programs or advertising illegal item sales rather then the really large blanket so that we can not even say http://vboards.stratics.com in game to someone who wants information.

 

[Kral]

RTLFC

1.) In the US, freedom of speech does not apply to a private organization, club, or company. EA / Mythic can restrict what you say in the game. Other countries may have different laws.
2.) Many of the private web sites / fan sites I have seen have discussion boards that are lightly moderated, or not moderated at all. The result is some post containing pictures of / links to pornographic or offensive material, and / or exploits. Your guild page may be on the up and up, but are you sure that 100% of all post made by the members are clean? Some guilds sites are very bad, many are clean…do the GM’s have time to check them all?
3.) Freedom is an illusion. What you consider freedom is based on your perception of the world and the cultural and moral bounds you live in. Freedom of speech is similarly governed. A good read from Google is at Stanford’s web site: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/

 

[Amathist of PoC]

RTLFC

1.) In the US, freedom of speech does not apply to a private organization, club, or company. EA / Mythic can restrict what you say in the game. Other countries may have different laws.
2.) Many of the private web sites / fan sites I have seen have discussion boards that are lightly moderated, or not moderated at all. The result is some post containing pictures of / links to pornographic or offensive material, and / or exploits. Your guild page may be on the up and up, but are you sure that 100% of all post made by the members are clean? Some guilds sites are very bad, many are clean…do the GM’s have time to check them all?
3.) Freedom is an illusion. What you consider freedom is based on your perception of the world and the cultural and moral bounds you live in. Freedom of speech is similarly governed. A good read from Google is at Stanford’s web site: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/

I am not asking for freedom of speech as such - more or less understanding that some websites are used to build the community and to provide information not to promote the sale of gold for money or to exploit cheats.

I want them to clear up wether or not ALL URLs are a no no or if some URLs are acceptable due to the possitive content.

As I said this really affects the community in a positive and a negative way - the positive being yes we are protected from duping sites and possible hacks and dodgy deals BUT the negative is we are also being stopped from using sites to advertise player run events, posting auction lists before auctions, promting gaming radio sites, sharing helpful information with new members of the community such as player guides. And we are stopped from saying if to people if your interested in our guild fill out the application on our site here is the url..........

I have been talking to people all day about this topic some read the TOS to say with the exception "meaning as long as your not selling items or gold for real money or real services and the site is non profit" then it is aloud.....others read it that "all urls are banable unless its owned by ea".

I just want a direct easy to read and easy to see clearly what is and is not aloud response from ea. And if all URLS are banable like some people say I want them to concider how they can change this like perhaps adding the claws that as long as the site does not contain pornagraphic, racial, ilegal exploits or cheats and is non profit then it is allowed.

 

[Teeshy]

I honestly think rule 8 is perfectly clear in what it says - you cant promote anything that isn't offering in game items for in game gold or services.

Basically EA need to cover their own arses - they can't police other sites - sites can change from one moment to the next, and EA have no control over it. UOGuide (for example) could get taken over by someone else one day, and the next day be full of scripts/cheats/exploits/whatever - they just need to cover their own arse.

Rule said the same thing when I started playing - however I've always felt as long as I stayed in the spirit of the rules, I was happy enough to take the chance of mentioning stratics, or uoguide or whatever. I've always known it wasnt, strictly speaking, within the rules though

 

[galefan2004]

All of these sites function with the use of a certain program we dare not speak the name of. That means they are all using cheats. I'm not sure how many people are aware of that. Speaking the URL just contributes to the cheating.

On the other hand, if UO had a decent vendor search system in game (like in DAoC) then there wouldn't be an issue with these sites because they wouldn't be needed or utilized.

 

[Amathist of PoC]

I honestly think rule 8 is perfectly clear in what it says - you cant promote anything that isn't offering in game items for in game gold or services.

Basically EA need to cover their own arses - they can't police other sites - sites can change from one moment to the next, and EA have no control over it. UOGuide (for example) could get taken over by someone else one day, and the next day be full of scripts/cheats/exploits/whatever - they just need to cover their own arse.

Rule said the same thing when I started playing - however I've always felt as long as I stayed in the spirit of the rules, I was happy enough to take the chance of mentioning stratics, or uoguide or whatever. I've always known it wasnt, strictly speaking, within the rules though

Does a guild class an in game service?

I am more or less just trying to get a straight forward 100% true explination of the rules as everyone has a different opinion. I have spoken to like 5 different people via icq today and ended up with at least 3 different takes on the rules.

And then read this thread and then add to it opinions like "however I've always felt as long as I stayed in the spirit of the rules, I was happy enough to take the chance of mentioning stratics, or uoguide or whatever. I've always known it wasnt, strictly speaking, within the rules though" and its as clear as MUD.

I basically do not want to take a risk promoting any site and getting a banned but for the functionality of guilding and helping out others I would like to be able to advertise my guild site and send people to guides.

I think the only way its going to be cyrstal clear is if someone from EA Mythic takes the time to make it so.

 

[Draxous]

Thats Stupid.

It is not stupid, it is EA trying to protect their players form being lead to harmful websites. This has happened in the past.

Yes... please, continue to support the policing of peoples own stupidity.

After all, it's everyone elses responsibility to make sure you don't do something stupid... right?