Proposal: Allow castles and keeps to be better customized

[BrianFreud]

The stone pieces were a great addition, in my opinion. But having built multiple castles and keeps myself, and having helped dozens of others design and built theirs, we all keep running into the same problem.

The existing castle and keep layouts just haven't aged very well. So what everyone seems to do is to add a new floor or two on top, using gozas or pavers, then build on that floor. The first two or three levels (depending if you keep the roof of the towers as useable) are just not very friendly to designing or decorating. The main things done on those levels always seem to be trying to fit stairs to the top, and building workarounds to get over the walls around the castle courtyard.

The bottom level of keeps remains full of unusable space, keeps still have the untouchable cutout areas on each side, and castles still have that unhelpful ring around the outside which doesn't actually connect at the front. Add in that you have to get through multiple doors in castles to even enter the castle, and it all boils down to the same result...

Namely, we all seem to be designing mainly to get to the goza/paver levels, which are limited by how high they have to be just to get above the existing castle/keep.

If the house customizer tools aren't keep or castle friendly, that's ok with me. We already have all the tools we need to be able to build nearly without restriction. I just want the option to get rid of the castle/keep itself, and switch to with a bare plot with that same footprint/storage. So @Kyronix @Bleak, how about it? Can 2017 be the year where I have the option to build my dream castle starting right at the front steps, rather than floating on gozas three stories above those steps?

 

[Archnight]

If the house customizer tools aren't keep or castle friendly, that's ok with me. We already have all the tools we need to be able to build nearly without restriction. I just want to get rid of the castle/keep itself, and start with a bare plot with that footprint. So @Kronix @Bleak, how about it? Can 2017 be the year where I can build my dream castle starting right at the front steps, rather than floating on gozas three stories above those steps?

I would definitely want a Keep/Castle if we could fully customize the plot, long overdue. Until then i'll keep enjoying my fully customized 18x18 and save my gold for rares

 

[MalagAste]

Just gonna leave this here for you to think about.

 

[BrianFreud]

@MalagAste, that'd be something different. That's modifying the existing castle. I'm talking about letting us chose to get rid of the castle, and just turn it to a plot. Then you could use stone items and build whatever castle (or town, etc) you wanted.

 

[Finley Grant]

I am with Brian in this. I did keep and Castle myself (See my posts in Home and Castle section)

It was a nice idea but in the end all will do the Same. They will try Go get more floors above. My biggest issue here is that I dont use my Castle anymore because the lag in EC made it nearly impossible to move around without getting the wish to Smash the Mouse into the Monitor. I used 2500 of those stone tiles to make Double floors for proper View and new Floor in top with roof Garden.

Dear devs Just let US use the Bulldozer and get it converted into a plot.

Hell if you want to do something good for u sell a Bulldozer Tool in infame Shop for 50 or 100 bucs.

Also to all who got a tree in the Yard ( yes me included) Just let this not Block it. Let it Stick through Ground as some other vegetables in Houses. People will Adapt and build lovely around.

Also. Make ingame lottery for caslte Sized Plot in malas and ilshenar.
Each month 1 per shard.
1ticket 10bucks once per Account per month. All got the chance to get their Plot
It little work to Arrange this lottery for a Dev.

So many fantastic Houses that could be built

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think before that can be done you would have to understand why castles and keeps weren't added to the customizable list in the first place. I'm guessing part of the reason might be that they can be placed where normal plots cannot, with trees etc in the courtyard area.

 

[BrianFreud]

@Petra Fyde, I think it may have been more a memory limit on the house customizing tool. That's why I'd be happy to skip that tool and just be able to toggle to plot-only. As for trees and such in the courtyard, those would seem to have become a non-issue when they made it so you could lock stuff down inside courtyards.

 

[Finley Grant]

Well in some Location also stuff Looks through Ground of normal houses.

 

[Finley Grant]

Heck they could even sell those plots at $1500+ each on the store and people would buy them like hot cakes, especially if they become fully customizable!

Only on Atlantic.

But keeping it Small with a lottery would be fair for all

 

[Hunter Perilous]

Great post and there are some great ideas here!
I have 2 keeps and have been thinking about his myself.
I have some ideas, while not as forward as OPs, could be really cool to help out castle and keep owners.
Add customization and placement of....
1. Doors and teleporters.
2. Fully customizable floor tiles.
3. Allow access and customization of the "dead space" in castles and keeps.
4. Allow us to change the color and or the skin of the existing castle/keep walls.
5. Stairs! Stairs! Stairs!
With this, I'd love to see ladders added to the customizer for C/Ks.
6. Add more decor type things to the customizer.
I had some other ideas, but have forgotten them,I'll update as I remember them.

 

[GarthGrey]

I"m fine with that, just give those of us that don't have castles an extra oh........5x5 added to our 18x18 existing size.

 

[Hunter Perilous]

I"m fine with that, just give those of us that don't have castles an extra oh........5x5 added to our 18x18 existing size.

Get a castle or keep!

 

[ShriNayne]

If they made another size of customisable house halfway between 18x18 and Keep size I'm sure a lot of people would go for that. The layout of keeps and castles could do with a bit of modernisation to make it more logical and easier to live in, removing the inaccessible parts would certainly help if they became internal useable areas. But I don't know how much work and time it would take. I'm not a fan of goza mats...
Petra could have point though, I didn't realise you could place them with trees inside.

 

[Lythos-]

If you could fully customize them, then they would no longer be a keep or castle. If you need extra room or just like customizing, downgrage to a regular plot and open another account like the rest of us.

No on this. There are more pressing issues to attend to.

 

[Larisa]

I disagree...they have said before they don't want 32x32 borg cubes. I know that not EVERYONE does that but a LOT of people do...and it would be ugly.

There are many ways to do a castle now and still utilize all the space. I vote to keep castles the way they are....

Towers, on the other hand.....are a bit unwieldy but still easy enough to work with, you just have to be creative!

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

Add customizable castles, at least so we can change a little bit the inside, keep the outside shell the same, that not be customizable, but all inside can be changed.
I hate to have to run up stairs and around to get to the back of the castle, and yeah I know I cold use tele tiles but trying to keep it original wthout having to spend cash on tiles to move when a nice door could be added to access the back....

 

[Merus]

A plot that occupies the exact same footprint of the castle / keep should be very easy. Delete all the walls/stairs on the first floor and everything from floors 2 and 3. What is currently grass/rocks/trees would remain the same and would need to be built around with the granite pieces just like it is now.

 

[skittles1337]

Castles and Keeps are perfect the way they are, if you don't like them consider downgrading to something you can customize. They've both received tremendous upgrades in the last expansion, it was not an AOS house so it shouldn't be extended the same features as a custom home.

 

[BrianFreud]

Castles and Keeps are perfect the way they are, if you don't like them consider downgrading to something you can customize. They've both received tremendous upgrades in the last expansion, it was not an AOS house so it shouldn't be extended the same features as a custom home.

They received ZERO upgrades, actually. I have 18x18's as well. I'd be perfectly happy with those - except they lack the storage of a castle or keep.

What was added was stone walls and floor tiles. In theory those sound like they should be fine to customize a castle. But given that you cannot change the castle AT ALL, you're stuck trying to build over it - where you quickly run into the height limit and get huge lag from all the pavers/gozas. Building on the existing structure's floors is an exercise in frustration as well; there's spots you cannot place anything, so you get gaps in walls. Most construction on those floors is limited to working around their limits to make them slightly more functional, not making them what you actually want them to be.

 

[Igg A Pie]

how about building sub levels instead of building up? 2 story basements might be a good option

 

[Finley Grant]

I disagree...they have said before they don't want 32x32 borg cubes. I know that not EVERYONE does that but a LOT of people do...and it would be ugly.

There are many ways to do a castle now and still utilize all the space. I vote to keep castles the way they are....

Towers, on the other hand.....are a bit unwieldy but still easy enough to work with, you just have to be creative!

Lol as you cant make Borg cubes with that New tiles....

 

[Finley Grant]

@BrianFreud I think it was one of the thinks where Not enough thoughts were made about. In theory its nice to add here and there a Bit.

But if u Look at the big picture like your or my castle u See that this is not a proper Thing.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I think before that can be done you would have to understand why castles and keeps weren't added to the customizable list in the first place. I'm guessing part of the reason might be that they can be placed where normal plots cannot, with trees etc in the courtyard area.

@Petra Fyde, I think it may have been more a memory limit on the house customizing tool. That's why I'd be happy to skip that tool and just be able to toggle to plot-only. As for trees and such in the courtyard, those would seem to have become a non-issue when they made it so you could lock stuff down inside courtyards.

When customizing first came out it was explained by a DEV Wilki I think it was. An 18x18 is the largest plot that can be customized due to system limitations. A Castle and a Keep require 4 plots and an L-Shape requires 2 plots to make. A DEV would have to take your design and apply it by first taking apart the house then putting it back together. It was here on Stratics that it was posted way back when. I would love it if they would just give us some other designs but PLEASE a 31x31 Neon Borg Cube NO TY

 

[BrianFreud]

@Lord Frodo no idea what you're talking about. I am suggesting the ability to turn castles and keeps into bare plots of the same size. I don't want to use the custom house tool; I just want a bare plot.

As for your borg cube, that's completely doable now, so this wouldn't change that.

 

[Hunter Perilous]

I'm fine with keeping the structure basically as is, but I think adding SOME customization features isn't asking too much.
It doesn't have to become the "borg cube".
But being able to add doors, change the skin of the walls, even if it's as a whole, add stairs and teleporters, and gain access to the unusable parts isn't asking much.

 

[Tina Small]

I think a small but doable step for the dev team would be to just replace the low wall tiles just insice castle entrances with doors. That way you could lock the doors if you want to keep people out of the rest of the castle or you could use the doors to quickly gain access to the bottom level of the castle interior.

 

[Razz]

View attachment 60768

Just gonna leave this here for you to think about.

If you cant go fully custom, I wouldn't mind having this as a second option at least. No reason not to have a couple of different Castle and Keep designs to choose from.

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Lord Frodo no idea what you're talking about. I am suggesting the ability to turn castles and keeps into bare plots of the same size. I don't want to use the custom house tool; I just want a bare plot.

As for your borg cube, that's completely doable now, so this wouldn't change that.

A Castle and a Keep require 4 separate plots that the DEVs moved together in the program so you as a player can not take them apart it REQUIRES a DEV to take them apart, modify them and then put them back together. They would have to design a plot the same size that you could place like a Castle or a Keep that only they could modify afterwards or you could just have a bare 31x31 plot that you could lock down stuff on. Any thing over an 18x18 plot REQUIRES the DEVs to MODIFY.

 

[Merus]

Castles and Keeps are perfect the way they are, if you don't like them consider downgrading to something you can customize. They've both received tremendous upgrades in the last expansion, it was not an AOS house so it shouldn't be extended the same features as a custom home.

Using this logic, we should be able to do away with all custom houses. There are plenty of other classic styles to choose from that are perfect as they are.

Keeps and castles are the only two size options with more storage. If there are limits to what can be done with the AOS house tool, that's fine and understandable. Asking for a footprint placement option would be another step in the right direction of adding the granite.

 

[BrianFreud]

A Castle and a Keep require 4 separate plots that the DEVs moved together in the program so you as a player can not take them apart it REQUIRES a DEV to take them apart, modify them and then put them back together. They would have to design a plot the same size that you could place like a Castle or a Keep that only they could modify afterwards or you could just have a bare 31x31 plot that you could lock down stuff on. Any thing over an 18x18 plot REQUIRES the DEVs to MODIFY.

For the first part, Citation required. For the second, umm, yes, that'd be exactly why this is a proposal for the devs, and not something we're already doing. A castle or keep is one particular "item" which creates that entire structure. (They're just really BIG items with special scripts for doors/etc, to the client). Simply let us toggle to swap that "this is a castle" item for a "this is a plot the size of a castle" item.

 

[Lord Frodo]

For the first part, Citation required. For the second, umm, yes, that'd be exactly why this is a proposal for the devs, and not something we're already doing. A castle or keep is one particular "item" which creates that entire structure. (They're just really BIG items with special scripts for doors/etc, to the client). Simply let us toggle to swap that "this is a castle" item for a "this is a plot the size of a castle" item.

Someone from Stratics would have to find the old posts, it is buried in the archives somewhere if they even still have it. This is one of those that comes up, what every 6 mo to a year thing. Maybe you should E-Mail the DEVs to see if they are willing to go into the OLD CODE and risk breaking it all for the sake of a bunch of Neon Borg Cubes cluttering Fel and Tram.

 

[Lord Frodo]

For the first part, Citation required.

House customization This is not the origanial but it gives you the answer you require.

 

[BrianFreud]

@Lord Frodo, if that's all you're worrying about, then 2003 is calling. We've already been there, done that, for every other house size. Esp given the effort castle and keep owners already give to trying to do some customizing with their houses now, I strongly doubt we'd all suddenly decide to build borg cubes instead.

 

[BrianFreud]

House customization This is not the origanial but it gives you the answer you require.

That's a quote from a former dev, in 2009, talking about making those house types use the house customize tools, which, in case you missed it the last couple times I said it, is specifically NOT what's being requested here. Change a castle into a castle-sized plot is not the same thing as "mak[ing] the L-shape, tower, keep or castle customizable".

In 2009, if you had a castle or keep sized-plot, you'd have only had the option to build using rubble. Our options have grown significantly since then.

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Lord Frodo, if that's all you're worrying about, then 2003 is calling. We've already been there, done that, for every other house size. Esp given the effort castle and keep owners already give to trying to do some customizing with their houses now, I strongly doubt we'd all suddenly decide to build borg cubes instead.

Whatever just keep

 

[Lord Frodo]

That's a quote from a former dev, in 2009, talking about making those house types use the house customize tools, which, in case you missed it the last couple times I said it, is specifically NOT what's being requested here. Change a castle into a castle-sized plot is not the same thing as "mak[ing] the L-shape, tower, keep or castle customizable".

IT CAN NOT BE DONE UNLESS THE DEVs DO IT. E-Mail them if you do not believe me. Posting this on Stratics does nothing. What are you going to do with a 31x31 dirt, put a bunch of neon colored tiles on it.

 

[BrianFreud]

IT CAN NOT BE DONE UNLESS THE DEVs DO IT. E-Mail them if you do not believe me. Posting this on Stratics does nothing. What are you going to do with a 31x31 dirt, put a bunch of neon colored tiles on it.

Because you can't build a house unless you use the custom tools, right? Here's the left 2 houses of a 3-wide 18x18 built from only plots, built long before any of the stone walls/etc were an option.



And you still miss the point. Of course you can't change a castle or keep into an equivalent-sized plot without the devs doing it. Did you miss the point where that's *exactly what this thread is proposing*?

 

[Larisa]

As Frodo said...here's the SAME post from the beginning of the year....it's been requested over and over and over and over......just not gonna happen.

Isn't it long overdue to have custom houses larger than 18x18?

 

[Donzer]

It would be nice to be able to do some changes to the excisting castle and keep designs.

With that being said, I would also like if they somehow could make it so that when you lock down (Double click) the new stone work, it would become possible to see through it with circle of transparency! As it is now it really blocks a lot of space in a house when you use it.

 

[MalagAste]

Seriously people... I agree that it would be good to have Keeps and Castles fully customizable and folk complain all the time about borg cubes all over but you know what..... there already are hideously ugly things all over the place and now thanks to being able to craft blocks there are hideous purple cubes and such all over... and BRIGHT blue.... there already are neon monstrosities and we have that super disgusting crystal stuff that people use to build 18x18's from so the complaint that you don't want to see 32x32 borg cubes is moot.

Truth of the matter is I wouldn't even care about all that. If I could get the storage from a keep or castle in a smaller plot I'd have a smaller plot save for Newcastle's Castle... Seems silly to have a town named Newcastle Township and not have a castle in it. But the truth there is that the castle is now a much better thing than a Keep. The fact you can actually deco the courtyard now and that you can add all those tiles and doors and teleporters it's nicer... still not too user friendly but a 100x more user friendly than a Keep.

I've offered in the past to put my talents to work and redesign the Keep and Castle for the DEV's... as I know I can do it. I've even suggested that they have a contest to redesign them and give folk the opportunity to submit designs. Even if they offered just 6 or 8 of each design that would be an improvement.

But they keep saying that you can't have plots that big. I do somewhat understand that. Since they would have difficulty loading. Think on this even in an 18x18 you notice that if you are on one side of it the other side doesn't always give you tags for stuff when you control shift... consider that in a 32x32 it would be difficult for the game mechanics to render and rerender what you were doing in custom mode. If you have ever noticed the INCREDIBLE lag you get while customizing image that FAR worse while trying to custom a 32x32... My guess is that it would be game stopping.

And to be totally honest... I'd rather they just allowed me to either pay an extra 2 bucks a month or buy an expansion that allowed me to have a 32x32 single story customizable "basement" plot on some big black area where I can't see any neighbors or something... and I'd forget wanting to own more than the one castle. If I could somehow get more storage.

 

[Finley Grant]

Iam Not sure why everybody pancakes about Borg cubes.

Hell I can build u one in 31*31 with 74 height plus some goza 31*31 floors above Up to 127 in height.

That's nothing new since WE have Stone tiles.

An yes it make lag like crazy.

BUT I never saw a 18*18 lagging no Matter How mich crap floors I built and How much decoration I put in.

Furthermore I cant Understand people complaining that this would Makee soooooooo much lag or kill Server etc.
All this Information is Numbers in databases. Made 19 years ago....

Maybe u Guys who have lag everywhwre Should think about replacing ur Pentium 1st gen with a proper PC...

WE are not playing the latest high res game Here...

Instead of addind Rainbow unicorns an Wedding stuff this is a much better Thing to spend time on.

 

[Hunter Perilous]

Wow!
I don't understand the animosity to being able to customize a castle/keep.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Wow!
I don't understand the animosity to being able to customize a castle/keep.

It is not animosity, yes I would like more choices than just 1 design for each but the FACT still remains that only a DEV can change a Castle, Keep or L-Shape because of the way the program handles housing and no matter how many posts there are about it it is going to be the same answer. If the OP and anybody else wishes this then they need to E-Mail UO not just post a thread about it and infer people are liars or whine but what do you expect from Stratics.

 

[Basara]

Here's a crazy idea - semi-customization through MODULES.

Split the Castle/keep areas up into 4, 6 or 9 modules. Have there be 4-10 options for each module, that have at least one way of getting to an adjoining module without being cut off from the rest of the building (you can use the stone wall pieces to block these after installing a teleporter, after the fact, if you want a secured area).

Players could mix and match to allow many different variations, as well as choosing different stone styles/colors for the entire structure. There would also be alternative modules that would have floor gaps, that allow placement during customization over terrain that got ignored by the castle or keep style, by keeping the landscaping as a garden inside the module.

Said design would prevent "borg cubes" by not having modules that would result in such.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Here's a crazy idea - semi-customization through MODULES.

Split the Castle/keep areas up into 4, 6 or 9 modules. Have there be 4-10 options for each module, that have at least one way of getting to an adjoining module without being cut off from the rest of the building (you can use the stone wall pieces to block these after installing a teleporter, after the fact, if you want a secured area).

Players could mix and match to allow many different variations, as well as choosing different stone styles/colors for the entire structure. There would also be alternative modules that would have floor gaps, that allow placement during customization over terrain that got ignored by the castle or keep style, by keeping the landscaping as a garden inside the module.

Said design would prevent "borg cubes" by not having modules that would result in such.

You would have to submit your design to @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak or any other DEV so they could build it and place it for you.

 

[BrianFreud]

As Frodo said...here's the SAME post from the beginning of the year....it's been requested over and over and over and over......just not gonna happen.

Isn't it long overdue to have custom houses larger than 18x18?

Not the same thing. That wanted larger CUSTOMIZABLE plots than 18x18.

Seriously people... I agree that it would be good to have Keeps and Castles fully customizable and folk complain all the time about borg cubes all over but you know what..... there already are hideously ugly things all over the place and now thanks to being able to craft blocks there are hideous purple cubes and such all over... and BRIGHT blue.... there already are neon monstrosities and we have that super disgusting crystal stuff that people use to build 18x18's from so the complaint that you don't want to see 32x32 borg cubes is moot.

I agree with you about the borg cube concern being rather overblown. But I'm specifically not asking for "Keeps and Castles fully customizable".

I am suggesting the ability to change a castle or keep into a plot of the same size. *No customizing.* We can use items to build whatever we like. We're already doing just that on the goza/paver levels, this would just get rid of the existing useless "castle" levels, and skip the need to raise up those goza/paver levels.

For those who've talked about lag from items, a goza/paver level is 32x32 items before you've even started doing anything. That's 1024 items per floor that we wouldn't need to have just to get to a flat working surface.

 

[Hunter Perilous]

It is not animosity, yes I would like more choices than just 1 design for each but the FACT still remains that only a DEV can change a Castle, Keep or L-Shape because of the way the program handles housing and no matter how many posts there are about it it is going to be the same answer. If the OP and anybody else wishes this then they need to E-Mail UO not just post a thread about it and infer people are liars or whine but what do you expect from Stratics.

Yeah, we get it.
Of course a DEV would have to write code and make the changes so that we could customize a castle or keep.
What changes on UOHall do we discuss that DONT require DEVS and coding.
Just because a DEV has to write or change code doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
That's why we are discussing this, so we can talk about what we may like to have changed.
Who's calling anyone a liar? Who's whining?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Yeah, we get it.
Of course a DEV would have to write code and make the changes so that we could customize a castle or keep.
What changes on UOHall do we discuss that DONT require DEVS and coding.
Just because a DEV has to write or change code doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
That's why we are discussing this, so we can talk about what we may like to have changed.
Who's calling anyone a liar? Who's whining?

No the DEVs would have to customize the Castle, Keep or L-Shape house because they would have to separate the plots, 4 for a Castle and Keep 2 for a L-Shape, customize it, put the plots back together and then place it in the same spot it was in. A 18x18 plot is as large a plot as the program can customize, the DEVs can not change that. The DEVs can not write or change the code for this, they would have to rewrite the entire UO Program. Please read this House customization you think they are going to rewrite the program for Castles and Keeps. This has been asked for 13 years, and now we have what 4 DEVs and you think they have the time to do it. The DEVs CAN NOT CODE THIS.

 

[Hunter Perilous]

No the DEVs would have to customize the Castle, Keep or L-Shape house because they would have to separate the plots, 4 for a Castle and Keep 2 for a L-Shape, customize it, put the plots back together and then place it in the same spot it was in. A 18x18 plot is as large a plot as the program can customize, the DEVs can not change that. The DEVs can not write or change the code for this, they would have to rewrite the entire UO Program. Please read this House customization you think they are going to rewrite the program for Castles and Keeps. This has been asked for 13 years, and now we have what 4 DEVs and you think they have the time to do it. The DEVs CAN NOT CODE THIS.

Cool, whatever dude.
I'm glad your an expert on UO code and know the ENTIRE game would have to be rewritten just to make castles and keeps customizable.
Are you always this dramatic?

 

[kelmo]

Yes... Yes he is. *winks*