New Problem with Bods

[Mrsbug]

The bod system needs fixed.
Forgot to claim the reward on fletching, I tried to go to carpentry and do bods....yep couldn't do bods till I went back and claimed that reward on fletching.

wouldn't even let me into the reward menu till I went back to fletching...half hour of waiting for a gm that never came ...

Stupid bods

 

[Pawain]

I noticed this when I accidently cancelled a BOD reward menu.

I doubt if they could fix this. It would lead to you getting to add the BOD points together and claim more points. (that was my goal)

I can see it being confusing if you change to anther type of BOD. You have to go click each type until you find the one you cancelled.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Just open the reward Gump on the vendor and it should give you a list to pick from

 

[Lord Frodo]

The bod system needs fixed.
Forgot to claim the reward on fletching, I tried to go to carpentry and do bods....yep couldn't do bods till I went back and claimed that reward on fletching.

wouldn't even let me into the reward menu till I went back to fletching...half hour of waiting for a gm that never came ...

Stupid bods

• It is possible to close the reward menu without choosing a reward, however you will not be able to turn in another order until the reward has been claimed using the ‘claim rewards’ option on the NPCs context menu

Bulk Orders – Ultima Online

 

[Grazz't1970]

Reading comprehension ftw

 

[Uriah Heep]

They need to forget pet revamps for the moment and spend more time tuning this pub up. I just got a order for 20 Runic atlas..it's worth 50pts.
A cure bod for 20 scrolls is worth that, and can be bought from the npc.
Still holding fletching bods waiting on the points on them to be adjusted to make building the bows worthwhile using the mined gems.
Still waiting on an answer as to whether PoF will ever be added to anything besides smithing.

Holiday is over, come on guys, don't do this cone of silence **** again, talk to us!

 

[Petra Fyde]

But this is always the way bods have worked. An iron plate chest bod is worth as much as a bandana bod - as a single. The difference is when you put it in a LBod. Runic atlas goes in the highest inscription bod there is. Why would you waste it turning it in as a single?
The same goes for the elven bows, they're not viable as singles, they need to go into large bods. Tinder and shafts are the best small bods to turn in for tools, and probably the ammo lbod for points.

 

[OREOGL]

But this is always the way bods have worked. An iron plate chest bod is worth as much as a bandana bod - as a single. The difference is when you put it in a LBod. Runic atlas goes in the highest inscription bod there is. Why would you waste it turning it in as a single?
The same goes for the elven bows, they're not viable as singles, they need to go into large bods. Tinder and shafts are the best small bods to turn in for tools, and probably the ammo lbod for points.

Wouldn't you expect to have a system where all bods are viable?

Otherwise what's the point?

Also does anyone know if the bribing system changed?

I thought it used to change number, exceptional, and then metal type.

Now it goes straight to metal type when bribing.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Yeah I gave up on smith and tailor bribes. I admit I am late the scene on bribing, but I can find no rhyme or reason to how they do it. I usually end up spending a lot of gold and ending up with maybe 1 out of 5 that I wanted.
Does everything have to be so random with crafting?

 

[Basara]

Wouldn't you expect to have a system where all bods are viable?

Otherwise what's the point?

Also does anyone know if the bribing system changed?

I thought it used to change number, exceptional, and then metal type.

Now it goes straight to metal type when bribing.

The bribing system is as it's always been. Random, and more often than not, in a way different than what you actually wanted unless already exceptional and 20 count.

With my BODs, it seems to go metal, exceptional, then number - unless I want it to do metal type, when it seems to go out of its way to do one of the other two. That's why I gave up trying to bribe for POF not long after bribing came out (and now it's not even an issue, because all the smalls too high in metal type for POF can be used to get it now with the point system).

And, as for your first statement, you must have a different definition of "viable" than the rest of the world. What you seem to want is the equivalent to use a "buy one get one free Big Mac" coupon from mcDonalds to get BOGO free steak dinners at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

There's ALWAYS going to be things in the system that are lower in reward, that are components for much more valuable BODs. The issue. as Petra and I have repeatedly pointed out, is we're dealing with a 15 year old system that was designed from DAY ONE to where the difference in relative value comes from the LBOD - and that all smalls of the same count pay the same at the base material level, for the same number and quality. It was done that way for simplicity of programming, as the more complex it is, the more likely the system was to break.

 

[OREOGL]

The bribing system is as it's always been. Random, and more often than not, in a way different than what you actually wanted unless already exceptional and 20 count.

With my BODs, it seems to go metal, exceptional, then number - unless I want it to do metal type, when it seems to go out of its way to do one of the other two. That's why I gave up trying to bribe for POF not long after bribing came out (and now it's not even an issue, because all the smalls too high in metal type for POF can be used to get it now with the point system).

And, as for your first statement, you must have a different definition of "viable" than the rest of the world. What you seem to want is the equivalent to use a "buy one get one free Big Mac" coupon from mcDonalds to get BOGO free steak dinners at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

There's ALWAYS going to be things in the system that are lower in reward, that are components for much more valuable BODs. The issue. as Petra and I have repeatedly pointed out, is we're dealing with a 15 year old system that was designed from DAY ONE to where the difference in relative value comes from the LBOD - and that all smalls of the same count pay the same at the base material level, for the same number and quality. It was done that way for simplicity of programming, as the more complex it is, the more likely the system was to break.

Viable means usable and feasible, not equivalent to. So I'm not sure where you pulled that from.

If the cost to fill the bod, in any manner, outweighs the benefit it is unviable.

It was a pretty broad statement and you made an assumption.

If you're unsure about something, I encourage you to ask first.

 

[Uriah Heep]

If the cost to fill the bod, in any manner, outweighs the benefit it is unviable.

This

 

[Petra Fyde]

Thing is, these bods are only not viable as a single - they are viable as a component within a large bod.

 

[OREOGL]

Thing is, these bods are only not viable as a single - they are viable as a component within a large bod.

That's what I'm saying.

The goal was to make all bods viable with this last publish and I'm not even certain all small bods have a large bod possibility. Especially when they tried adding some of the newer ingredients.

Do not misinterpret viability as not being a scaled benefit based on bod type.

However, if we were okay with status quo we should have skipped the bod publish and went straight into pet revamps.

 

[Lord Frodo]

It is really remarkable that it appears that this new BOD System has created all these problems. I guess this is what you get when you take the AUTO out of something, turn a BOD in and get an AUTO Reward and now UO has made us use our brain, damn them. It is costing us the EXACT same amount to fill Smith and Tailor as it did before this new Pub and they even added more rewards to them, OMG what are we to do. Smiths and Tailors have, for the most part, turned in the lower junk BODs so they can get a new BOD, this is how we maintained our supply.
Viability is a matter of if you think it is worth the cost and nothing more. The viability of Smith/Tailor BODs have not changed one bit, it has always been a matter of choice. As far as the new BODs we are all trying to make our own minds on the viability of them.
As far as the bribe system goes it has ALWAYS been random, I have been using it from day one and there is NO PATTER to what you get next be it Norm - Exp, higher count or change metal to next higher it is ALWAYS a crap shoot.
IMHO there new system has rejuvenated the BOD System and there appear to be NEW BLOOD so please if you are uncertain how something worked or works now ask here or try to find someone on your shard to take you by the hand and help you.
Does this new system have some bugs to work out, yes but it is far from the disaster some people on here are trying to portray it.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Unless they're bugged and won't go exceptional, like most of cooking and a fair percentage of tinkering and carpentry.

And no, the sBODs that want a crap ton of resources, especially of the rarer types, aren't viable at 50 points. Bowcraft specifically.

Shoehorning skills into the smithy/tailoring mold without adjusting properly has created this mess. Stop making excuses.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I'm not even certain all small bods have a large bod possibility.

So did you ever do BODs before this Pub, no because you would have known that not all SBODs had a LBOD. BODs pre Pub were viabil that is how we maintained our supply, so we as BOD runners made that choice to do them and yes these new BODs need some tweaking viability is still going to be a matter of CHOICE of what you think they are worth, not what others think.

 

[OREOGL]

mn them. It is costing us the EXACT same amount to fill Smith and Tailor as it did before this new Pub and they even added more rewards to them, OMG what are we to do

It wasn't the amount it took to fill the BODs that changed, it was the scaled value of a lot of the bids that are still off, aside from the worthless banking system.

I'm sure some of the Bods still hold equal or maybe even higher values, and you can pick the reward (which was the nicest feature of the publish). Still, a lot of the bods need scaled correctly.

For example, when testing smithing, a 20 iron exceptional spear netted me 350 points while a gold exceptional 20 bronze shield was maybe 750.


Just by appearance, it doesn't seem that iron should net 50% of the points that a gold does just by value difference.

This was also the reason a lot of the newer bids got axed.

 

[Lord Frodo]

So stop saying the whole system is borked and needs to be **** canned. A lot of BODs have already been removed and a lot of bugs were fixed while in testing. Please feel free to submit all the BUG Reports as with this system they are making a difference or you can continue to scream it is all borked **** can it just like some others are doing.

 

[OREOGL]

So did you ever do BODs before this Pub, no because you would have known that not all SBODs had a LBOD. BODs pre Pub were viabil that is how we maintained our supply, so we as BOD runners made that choice to do them and yes these new BODs need some tweaking viability is still going to be a matter of CHOICE of what you think they are worth, not what others think.

Thanks for making my prior point but I only focused on smithing BODs, none of the others.

Yeah you'd turn in some trash bods for a new one, so viability doesn't change. Just how much money you wanted to dump to get a different bod that was of value.

This generally wasn't worth it to me so I stopped even doing smith ones and just bought the things I needed.

 

[OREOGL]

So stop saying the whole system is borked and needs to be **** canned. A lot of BODs have already been removed and a lot of bugs were fixed while in testing. Please feel free to submit all the BUG Reports as with this system they are making a difference or you can continue to scream it is all borked **** can it just like some others are doing.

I never claimed the whole system was borked.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I think people are getting hot under the collar about BODs because we haven't heard any responses from the devs since the 17th (assuming the dev stalking forum is accurate).

Did anyone go to either of the last two M&Gs? One was just a few hours ago...

 

[Fridgster]

Wouldn't you expect to have a system where all bods are viable?

Otherwise what's the point?

Also does anyone know if the bribing system changed?

I thought it used to change number, exceptional, and then metal type.

Now it goes straight to metal type when bribing.

Nah bribing hasn't changed Smith wise. Exceptional has always been the toughest to get (it does add the largest amount of points to the bod at 200). You can usually tell what your going to get for an upgrade by the amount the blacksmith is charging for the bribe.

 

[OREOGL]

Nah bribing hasn't changed Smith wise. Exceptional has always been the toughest to get (it does add the largest amount of points to the bod at 200). You can usually tell what your going to get for an upgrade by the amount the blacksmith is charging for the bribe.

You could be right, for some reason I recall them being more incremental.

 

[Lord Frodo]

It wasn't the amount it took to fill the BODs that changed, it was the scaled value of a lot of the bids that are still off, aside from the worthless banking system.

I'm sure some of the Bods still hold equal or maybe even higher values, and you can pick the reward (which was the nicest feature of the publish). Still, a lot of the bods need scaled correctly.

For example, when testing smithing, a 20 iron exceptional spear netted me 350 points while a gold exceptional 20 bronze shield was maybe 750.


Just by appearance, it doesn't seem that iron should net 50% of the points that a gold does just by value difference.

This was also the reason a lot of the newer bids got axed.

EVERY Smith/Tailor BOD still gives the same reward as before this new system, NO VALUE was changed alls they did was add new rewards and give us the ability to pick exactly what we wanted, no more %10-%20 chance of an upgrade.

20X iron SBOD = 250 points and a 20X gold SBOD = 650 points = 400 point difference.
The reason a lot of the newer BODs got axed was because they took special ingredients and they are still weeding out some of the new BODs as we submit reports on them.
Here is an outstanding link for the BOD System that all new BOD Runners should read. Bulk Orders – Ultima Online

 

[Lord Frodo]

Thanks for making my prior point but I only focused on smithing BODs, none of the others.

Yeah you'd turn in some trash bods for a new one, so viability doesn't change. Just how much money you wanted to dump to get a different bod that was of value.

This generally wasn't worth it to me so I stopped even doing smith ones and just bought the things I needed.

I have been doing Smith/Tailor BODs from day one and yes some, but by no means all, Smith SBODs consumed way more iron ingots than others and those were but away for later but if you wanted to keep you stock up you did them. With the bribe system it was easier to make some of those choices because it costs less on less populated shards than it does on Atl to do them.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I think people are getting hot under the collar about BODs because we haven't heard any responses from the devs since the 17th (assuming the dev stalking forum is accurate).

Did anyone go to either of the last two M&Gs? One was just a few hours ago...

THIS

 

[OREOGL]

EVERY Smith/Tailor BOD still gives the same reward as before this new system, NO VALUE was changed alls they did was add new rewards and give us the ability to pick exactly what we wanted, no more %10-%20 chance of an upgrade.

20X iron SBOD = 250 points and a 20X gold SBOD = 650 points = 400 point difference.
The reason a lot of the newer BODs got axed was because they took special ingredients and they are still weeding out some of the new BODs as we submit reports on them.
Here is an outstanding link for the BOD System that all new BOD Runners should read. Bulk Orders – Ultima Online

I will be in a meeting forms few hours but perhaps I can illustrate my point better later with more examples.

 

[OREOGL]

EVERY Smith/Tailor BOD still gives the same reward as before this new system, NO VALUE was changed alls they did was add new rewards and give us the ability to pick exactly what we wanted, no more %10-%20 chance of an upgrade.

20X iron SBOD = 250 points and a 20X gold SBOD = 650 points = 400 point difference.
The reason a lot of the newer BODs got axed was because they took special ingredients and they are still weeding out some of the new BODs as we submit reports on them.
Here is an outstanding link for the BOD System that all new BOD Runners should read. Bulk Orders – Ultima Online

Going to give a quick example for this to show why the values need scaled.

The choosing system seems like a good idea in theory, and along with the points scale but slightly skewed along with some of the points.

The large valorite needed for 1200 points to get a Val hammer will cost you 3m to make and can sell for 5m average making 2m

But wait, we can trade!

Okay I want POF but I can only get two so 900 points right? Wait, these things are only worth 100k ea. I just ate 2.8M.


But, oh I have 300 points left so I can get a gargoyle pick axe, sturdy shovel or a neat title all worth close to nothing. I'm still out 2.8m.

So unless you're doing the exact same bods you were before the publish to get exact same reward the current system needs a little work.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Going to give a quick example for this to show why the values need scaled.

They choosing system seems like a good idea in theory, and along with the points scale but slightly skewed along with some of the points.

The large valorite needed for 1200 points to get a Val hammer will cost you 3m to make and can sell for 5m average making 2m

But wait, we can trade!

Okay I want POF but I can only get two so 900 points right? Wait, these things are only worth 100k ea. I just ate 2.8M.


But, oh I have 300 points left so I can get a gargoyle pick axe, sturdy shovel or a neat title all worth close to nothing. I'm still out 2.8m.

So unless you're doing the exact same bods you were before the publish to get exact same reward the current system needs a little work.

If you have 900 banked points and you could use them without losing your balance my question would be why would you pick PoF when these BODs are easy to get and waist 900 banked points. So what your asking is UO set the prices for stuff where PoF takes 450 points to claim and a Val Hammer takes 1200 points so in your mind 3 jars should cost the same as a Val hammer 5-7M or a Val hammer should cost 300K. The players set the price of items so if it takes you 3M to fill a 20X plate LBOD that is because the player base set the price for Val ingots where you can get PoF for a 20X Dull Copper SBOD. Your dwelling on the point system, which was a bonus, and missing the bigger picture of this new system. The major complaint was when they introduced the %20 chance to upgrade system and the biggest items that took a hit was PoF and Horned Runics with mining gloves ans 120 PSs now we do not have that problem and yes the cost for these items have dropped a little the resources required haven't so as resources dwindle then prices will rise accordingly. There is a easy fix to all of this is make BODs worth more but then the Rewards are going to cost more. Val Hammer is now 12,000 points or 120,000 points. UO can not get into the business of regulating the cost of resources or UO will no longer be a sandbox game. So if I get this right PoF 100K, Val Hammer 5M so you want the points to reflect that you can claim 50 PoFs or 1 Val Hammer so if lest say then that PoF costs 450 points then a Val Hammer will need to cost 22,500 points, so far so good. Now UO will need to adjust the points accordingly oh wait Val Hammers just went up to 7M and PoF just dropped to 80K, DEVs we need you to adjust the points again. This will be a never ending adjustment.

Maybe adj the SBODs to %5, LBODS are good at %20.
Leave the reward point system as is, way to many variables come into play with a sandbox game.
Allow more Banked Points to be stored and adj balance to what you buy not lose all remaining points. If you choose to pick something then that is on you and you made the choice not UO, keep UO out of setting prices.
DO NOT let UO get into setting prices, this is worth repeating twice.
As for the new BODs when you add more than just basic ingredients then the points need to be adj. Right now I have been doing a lot of Tink BODs and they need to be adjusted and a 120 PS be added or a tinkers apron that stacks or something like an ASH added because the rates to make are worse than Smith/Tailor ever thought of being even with a %30 Exp tink tally.

 

[Fridgster]

Perhaps allowing the points that are banked to be used on multiple items would be an acceptable compromise. It is after all a new addition to the system so nothing states that it has to follow the same rules/form (not that that has ever stopped them before ). This would give banked points higher value without actually increasing the points total thus not effecting the market.

 

[Uriah Heep]

and a 120 PS be added

Oh dear God no!
Bite your tongue!

 

[OREOGL]

If you have 900 banked points and you could use them without losing your balance my question would be why would you pick PoF when these BODs are easy to get and waist 900 banked points. So what your asking is UO set the prices for stuff where PoF takes 450 points to claim and a Val Hammer takes 1200 points so in your mind 3 jars should cost the same as a Val hammer 5-7M or a Val hammer should cost 300K. The players set the price of items so if it takes you 3M to fill a 20X plate LBOD that is because the player base set the price for Val ingots where you can get PoF for a 20X Dull Copper SBOD. Your dwelling on the point system, which was a bonus, and missing the bigger picture of this new system. The major complaint was when they introduced the %20 chance to upgrade system and the biggest items that took a hit was PoF and Horned Runics with mining gloves ans 120 PSs now we do not have that problem and yes the cost for these items have dropped a little the resources required haven't so as resources dwindle then prices will rise accordingly. There is a easy fix to all of this is make BODs worth more but then the Rewards are going to cost more. Val Hammer is now 12,000 points or 120,000 points. UO can not get into the business of regulating the cost of resources or UO will no longer be a sandbox game. So if I get this right PoF 100K, Val Hammer 5M so you want the points to reflect that you can claim 50 PoFs or 1 Val Hammer so if lest say then that PoF costs 450 points then a Val Hammer will need to cost 22,500 points, so far so good. Now UO will need to adjust the points accordingly oh wait Val Hammers just went up to 7M and PoF just dropped to 80K, DEVs we need you to adjust the points again. This will be a never ending adjustment.

Maybe adj the SBODs to %5, LBODS are good at %20.
Leave the reward point system as is, way to many variables come into play with a sandbox game.
Allow more Banked Points to be stored and adj balance to what you buy not lose all remaining points. If you choose to pick something then that is on you and you made the choice not UO, keep UO out of setting prices.
DO NOT let UO get into setting prices, this is worth repeating twice.
As for the new BODs when you add more than just basic ingredients then the points need to be adj. Right now I have been doing a lot of Tink BODs and they need to be adjusted and a 120 PS be added or a tinkers apron that stacks or something like an ASH added because the rates to make are worse than Smith/Tailor ever thought of being even with a %30 Exp tink tally.

I didn't take banking points into account for any of this. We all know the banking system is not worth using unless you like mining in general or script mine and can afford to throw ingots away.

As far as pricing, I am not asking either of those things. I'm not asking for a Val hammer to be 300k or two POF to be worth 3m.

I'm asking them to scale the turn in points appropriately so you can get a Val hammer or the amount of POFs that's closer in value.

Does it have to be 50? No, but saying 2 POF is worth a Val hammer is a slap in the face.

Aside from that I've been grabbing tinker bids but I haven't attempted to do any of them. I will have to see what they are.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Oh dear God no!
Bite your tongue!

120 PS for all the new BOD Skills, think about all the Soulstones UO will sell so we can have 8-120 skills for all our crafters. 120 Skill + ASH or equivalent + Tallies + Aprons for all 8 skills + 120 Mining + Tally + Better gloves. 7 new PSs

 

[OREOGL]

Perhaps allowing the points that are banked to be used on multiple items would be an acceptable compromise. It is after all a new addition to the system so nothing states that it has to follow the same rules/form (not that that has ever stopped them before ). This would give banked points higher value without actually increasing the points total thus not effecting the market.

I think the banking system should be scrapped.

If they did that and scaled the reward and bod points more appropriately that would be fine.

For example why is a large 6 iron weapon deed worth less than a 2 large exceptional weapon deed?

 

[Fridgster]

You could be right, for some reason I recall them being more incremental.

Well if the RNG has anything to do with it we BOTH could be right and wrong.

 

[Fridgster]

I think the banking system should be scrapped.

If they did that and scaled the reward and bod points more appropriately that would be fine.

For example why is a large 6 iron weapon deed worth less than a 2 large exceptional weapon deed?

Hey leave my halberds and bardiches out of this!! (Yeah I know I didn't spell check)

 

[Lord Frodo]

I didn't take banking points into account for any of this. We all know the banking system is not worth using unless you like mining in general or script mine and can afford to throw ingots away.

As far as pricing, I am not asking either of those things. I'm not asking for a Val hammer to be 300k or two POF to be worth 3m.

I'm asking them to scale the turn in points appropriately so you can get a Val hammer or the amount of POFs that's closer in value.

Does it have to be 50? No, but saying 2 POF is worth a Val hammer is a slap in the face.

Aside from that I've been grabbing tinker bids but I haven't attempted to do any of them. I will have to see what they are.

If you want the points to scale then at some point either UO or the player base will have to set a standard and just using your gold amount then 50 PoF (100K ea) would equal 1 Val Hammer at 5M or you will lose money. I wish there would have been a way to not let us see the points because that is what IMHO is driving this whole problem. I held onto a BOD Book with 500 filled PoF SBODs so i could turn them in without getting 1 pair of +5 mining gloves and it worked. So far I have filled 10 PoF Kegs (250 BODs) without one damn pair of mining gloves. I bank all my SBODs to cut down on all the rewards but I still collect a BOD for every one turned in.

 

[OREOGL]

If you want the points to scale then at some point either UO or the player base will have to set a standard and just using your gold amount then 50 PoF (100K ea) would equal 1 Val Hammer at 5M or you will lose money. I wish there would have been a way to not let us see the points because that is what IMHO is driving this whole problem. I held onto a BOD Book with 500 filled PoF SBODs so i could turn them in without getting 1 pair of +5 mining gloves and it worked. So far I have filled 10 PoF Kegs (250 BODs) without one damn pair of mining gloves. I bank all my SBODs to cut down on all the rewards but I still collect a BOD for every one turned in.

There is a rough standard set by mining rates that you can use.

It doesn't even have to be a player value.

As is, it's not worth it to most players downgrading a trade or banking points regardless of how you look at it. Simple math dictates that no one is going to fill a large High end bod and pick any other rewards but the one that was already offered prepub. It only took away the chance of getting a low end reward from it, as you mentioned.

 

[Lord Frodo]

There is a rough standard set by mining rates that you can use.

It doesn't even have to be a player value.

As is, it's not worth it to most players downgrading a trade or banking points regardless of how you look at it. Simple math dictates that no one is going to fill a large High end bod and pick any other rewards but the one that was already offered prepub. It only took away the chance of getting a low end reward from it, as you mentioned.

According to UO both the Mining Gloves and the 120 PS were upgrades, yea right only in their minds. I use the Bank System for all my Cloth/Iron SBODs to reduce the amount of rewards cluttering my backpack. When I have enough LBODs (weps and such) to turn in for a Val I will. This is all I will use Bank system for when I do turnin runs for new BODs and if they do away with the Bank System then alls they have to display in the Max Reward on down with out any points displayed and you will never know the difference. Yes I can turn in a 10X Copper SBOD and pick what it would have given me or I can pick a PoF my choice because I know a 10X Copper is worth more than a 10X Shadow Bod from all the info gathered by players. Am I gonna lose some points, YES, but that is my choice. Nothing needs to be scaled just stop showing the points if they do away with the Banking System.

 

[OREOGL]

According to UO both the Mining Gloves and the 120 PS were upgrades, yea right only in their minds. I use the Bank System for all my Cloth/Iron SBODs to reduce the amount of rewards cluttering my backpack. When I have enough LBODs (weps and such) to turn in for a Val I will. This is all I will use Bank system for when I do turnin runs for new BODs and if they do away with the Bank System then alls they have to display in the Max Reward on down with out any points displayed and you will never know the difference. Yes I can turn in a 10X Copper SBOD and pick what it would have given me or I can pick a PoF my choice because I know a 10X Copper is worth more than a 10X Shadow Bod from all the info gathered by players. Am I gonna lose some points, YES, but that is my choice. Nothing needs to be scaled just stop showing the points if they do away with the Banking System.

Its okay to knowingly make the decision. However not showing points is going to affect the outcome of the turn-ins and rewards.

You will still be able to turn in the large val plate bod for a val hammer but have the option to choose 2 POF instead. That's okay I guess, I just wont use either system, it just begs the question, what is the point in that?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Its okay to knowingly make the decision. However not showing points is going to affect the outcome of the turn-ins and rewards.

You will still be able to turn in the large val plate bod for a val hammer but have the option to choose 2 POF instead. That's okay I guess, I just wont use either system, it just begs the question, what is the point in that?

You are using two way extreme picks. NOBODY is going to take 2 PoFs in place of 0ne VAL hammer. 10X Shadow (460 points) and I will say %99.99999999999 of the players will take the PoF and give up the 10 point difference. Now a 10X Copper SBOD (510 points) and as PoF gen sells for 100K I will say that almost all BOD runners will take the PoF because before those BODs rarely got filled and turned in.
Here are the points
10 Hammer 250 uses
10 Shovel 150/200 uses
25 Pick 150/200 uses
25 Weaponsmith
100 Armorer
100 mining glove +1
200 mining glove +3
200 prospector tool
200 Garg pickaxe
350 Golden Tally 6000 ingots
400 Craftsman Tally 10 uses
450 Mining glove +5
450 PoF
475 Aga Tally 3000 ingots
500 Rock hammer
500 Dull Hammer 50 uses

What they should have done is this
You may pick ONE reward from this list
Hammer 250 uses
Shovel 150/200 uses
Pick 150/200 uses
Weaponsmith
Armorer
mining glove +1
mining glove +3
prospector tool
Garg pickaxe
Golden Tally 6000 ingots
Craftsman Tally 10 uses
Mining glove +5
PoF
Aga Tally 3000 ingots
Rock hammer
Dull Hammer 50 uses


If I had a bunch of Aga ore I would take the Aga Tally 1 time, not sure about the rock hammer and the Dull Hammers are less than 50K so I will take the PoF for 100k. Before you got a Dull Copper Hammer and that was it where now you get to pick. That is the HUGE BONUS of this system. stop thinking about the points, think about the reward you want and take it.

 

[Basara]

I never claimed the whole system was borked.

That's the ONLY way your post could be interpreted, and it is EXACTLY what you meant, even though you try to backtrack otherwise.

"Viable only as an LBOD component" is STILL VIABLE, no matter what word games you want to play.

Or are you still trying to get your free Filet Mignon with a Whopper coupon?

 

[Basara]

Hey leave my halberds and bardiches out of this!! (Yeah I know I didn't spell check)

I know the feeling. I used to do the Exceptional Polearm BODs for POF, now I have to bribe them all to 20 count to get POF

AGAIN, Oreo can't seem to understand that there is that pesky "Exceptional" point component, that is 100 to 200 (depending on crafting skill), that is what is raising that 20 Ex Polearm to the same value as a 20 normal iron Plate LBOD. NOTHING is arbitrary about LBODs. But, "Arbitrary" is pretty much the DEFINITION of small BODs that don't require colored wood, metal or leather.

The system was designed that way FIFTEEN YEARS AGO because trying to factor in additional special bonuses for additional material would have complicated the programming to where it would likely have been AoS before BODs could have been finished. It's why there were never Dragon Scale Armor BODs. It's why a Bone Armor Small BOD (that you can't make 100% even with a 30% exceptional talisman, IIRC) is worth the same as a 10-count bandana.

Special cases are a pancake to program for - and an even more painful thing to debug.

When I was taking programming classes in college in 1985, I had my final program done except for one subroutine to handle a special case - a special form of output (printing a check) from data that could read and out perfectly fine from all the other subroutines. The software worked perfectly without the subroutine. The subroutine worked perfectly with a "test program" that used dummy commands EXACTLY like what was in the main program to call it.
I brought the two together, and the main program stopped working. It didn't start back working when I took the subroutine out. It didn't work even when I reverted to a backup copy from before I did the insert. The DUMMY program stopped working. There was no change to the data, so it couldn't have been an accidental data overwrite. MY PROFESSOR couldn't even figure out what caused it, as he had someone take my printouts, retype the damn thing (all 1000+ lines of it), and it worked. But it would NOT work for me, EVER on my mainframe account. Not even the next year, when I was given a copy of the teacher's retyping of it, that worked fine for him.

 

[OREOGL]

That's the ONLY way your post could be interpreted, and it is EXACTLY what you meant, even though you try to backtrack otherwise.

"Viable only as an LBOD component" is STILL VIABLE, no matter what word games you want to play.

Or are you still trying to get your free Filet Mignon with a Whopper coupon?

No, that's the only way YOU interpreted it and I explained what I said.

The meaning of viable did not change so there is no change or play on words.

Again not all bods have large bods components which was later confirmed by Frodo, so they all can't be viable in that matter...

Again, it was YOU who made that assumption.

Please pull your head out of the sand.

 

[OREOGL]

You are using two way extreme picks. NOBODY is going to take 2 PoFs in place of 0ne VAL hammer. 10X Shadow (460 points) and I will say %99.99999999999 of the players will take the PoF and give up the 10 point difference. Now a 10X Copper SBOD (510 points) and as PoF gen sells for 100K I will say that almost all BOD runners will take the PoF because before those BODs rarely got filled and turned in.
Here are the points
10 Hammer 250 uses
10 Shovel 150/200 uses
25 Pick 150/200 uses
25 Weaponsmith
100 Armorer
100 mining glove +1
200 mining glove +3
200 prospector tool
200 Garg pickaxe
350 Golden Tally 6000 ingots
400 Craftsman Tally 10 uses
450 Mining glove +5
450 PoF
475 Aga Tally 3000 ingots
500 Rock hammer
500 Dull Hammer 50 uses

What they should have done is this
You may pick ONE reward from this list
Hammer 250 uses
Shovel 150/200 uses
Pick 150/200 uses
Weaponsmith
Armorer
mining glove +1
mining glove +3
prospector tool
Garg pickaxe
Golden Tally 6000 ingots
Craftsman Tally 10 uses
Mining glove +5
PoF
Aga Tally 3000 ingots
Rock hammer
Dull Hammer 50 uses


If I had a bunch of Aga ore I would take the Aga Tally 1 time, not sure about the rock hammer and the Dull Hammers are less than 50K so I will take the PoF for 100k. Before you got a Dull Copper Hammer and that was it where now you get to pick. That is the HUGE BONUS of this system. stop thinking about the points, think about the reward you want and take it.

There will be exceptions which is why the system isn't completely flawed.

Again, it will still give the same rewards as before with the exact same bods just no chance at low ends. So we've established this.

No one however will pick a high end runic for two POF, it's not just valorite, but gold, agapite, Verite etc.

The fact it's an option is pointless for any of these.

 

[Spartan]

So we are supposed to give the people we pay to play a pass because you had no idea what you were doing in college?

Bad form! I saw several instances of inop code that worked in test scenarios in my 40+ years in IT. Hell, we had a testbed system in the 90s that code would work on flawlessly and when placed into production, it was so screwed we had to revert until we could find the reason. In a couple stellar examples we found "unprintable" characters (high-end ASCII) that actually caused the code failures.

It can happen and it's not inexperience nor stupidity ... it's just a bit-flip that wreaks havoc.

 

[OREOGL]

EXCUSE ME????? "She???"

I'm a GUY.

And, the version that the prof retyped DIDN'T WORK when copied to my account. Explain that one.

You have proven beyond any shadow of doubt you have NO CLUE about what you are talking about.

BTW, "VIABLE" requires context for a definition to apply.

A seed that is "Viable" in the Orinoco Basin isn't necessarily viable for growth in Canada, and won't grow in Antarctica or on Mars.

SMALL BODS ARE NOT MEANT AS THE END-GAME OF THE BOD SYSTEM, no matter how much you want it to be so for your "Easy Button"

Honest mistake, I'm sure you can understand.

You tell me what went wrong, you said it worked fine. My opinion derived from the information you provided.


But let me help you with the "viable" bit. I provided you the definition privately which shows I used it in context, albeit it was a broad reference to its practicality for "all bods" in post #8, which i rebutted in following posts 11 and 14. This refutes the absurdity that you claim im trying to trade a Big Mac coupon for a steak, But you continued to misconstrue the context of the post anyways.

The argument was made afterwards that small bods are only viable through large bods. Sure, but not all bods have large bods which refutes the legitimacy of the argument, further supporting my rebuttal for my original response to Petra.

Either way it's not a big deal to me, I will continue to decline them and just buy the items.

Your turn, Mr moderator.

 

[OREOGL]

I do have a question @Lord Frodo @Basara, if the current system did not have any issues and is completely viable, then why are there so many threads about issues with it?


Edit: this includes excerpts from the meet and great about the banking system being too low

 

[Dot_Warner]