• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

Broadsword's Changes to Policy on Cheating

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I noticed that Broadsword announced a change in its policies regarding cheating in Dark Age of Camelot. Makes me wonder if they are also working towards announcing similar changes for UO. At the very least, this announcement makes it clear that someone at Broadsword has recognized that some players sometimes use programs to simultaneously control multiple characters at the same time and that allowing it to happen unchecked is not good for the health of the game.

You can find the original announcement here: Dark Age of Camelot
Full text is below if I don't mess up the formatting!

Friends and realmmates,

Brace yourselves, new-anti-cheat-policies are coming! ...Err they're here. The New-Anti-Cheat-Policies. Are. Here.

Read below for more details!

I wanted to take the time to update you all on our last several months' efforts to combat some different types of cheats in-game as well as announce our upcoming enforcement plans and policies for other types of cheats and violations going forward.

Since our last anti-cheat pass in August, we've been hard at work tweaking things and ensuring that our mechanisms in place are as air-tight as can be. As such, we're happy (and also disappointed in those that still think this behavior is okay) to announce that another few hundred accounts have been issued suspensions for use of radar/map hacks, third-party program hacks, and/or speedhacks. We were happy to see that the number of accounts issued suspensions was less than half of the number from the first pass, with relatively few repeat offenders; however it appears we still have a way to go before the rest of these cheaters get the message.

As such, we have issued suspensions ranging from 3 days for minimal usage and first time offenses to 7 days for extreme usage and 2nd time offenses with 5 day suspensions levied inbetween.

All accounts actioned today have been sent an email to the address on file.

If you received this email, and do not use these programs, check the name of the suspended account carefully before you panic. If you sold or traded your account to another player, it’s possible that they didn’t change the contact email information.

If you did not receive this email, but your account has been suspended, you should update the email address on the account ASAP.

If it’s your account, and you received the email, please uninstall your third party programs immediately.

For those that think we will stop here, think again. Rest assured we'll be doing another pass at some point in the future and if you cheat you Will. Be. Caught.


With that out of the way, we have one big announcement to make in our enforcement policy as well as some other, and still important!, general policy updates.

First, the big announcement:

Going forward, we will be heavily enforcing and removing any "macro groups" found in the Frontiers or battleground regions but will now be allowing non-trial "macro groups" in PvE areas. We will be starting off with issuing written warnings to ALL, non-trial, accounts that are detected using macro programs to simultaneously control multiple characters at once that are found in these areas. This is to give those accounts a chance to logout or immediately leave the regions. If accounts are found in a "macro group" in those regions again they will be suspended and eventually permanently terminated if they continue to venture there. Trial account "macro groups" will be immediately terminated, wherever they are found.

In addition to our new mechanisms put in place that help us verify "macro groups," this is a change in enforcement policy that we hope will greatly help the integrity and fun of RvR. For now, non-trial account "macro groups" will be allowed to exist in PvE zones and PvE/RvR zones such as Darkness Falls, Celestius, and Labyrinth. "Macro groups" already in Passage of Conflict or Summoner's Hall will be left alone as well but be warned that venturing through the frontiers to those dungeons will put your accounts at high risk to be actioned.

Due to our resources and based on player feedback, we feel this is the right first step to better combat "macro groups". We will certainly be keeping a close eye on things and revisiting this policy if need be. This policy should draw a clear line in the sand so that everyone knows what is and is not a violation when it comes to these "macro groups." Please note that this policy change is only going forward; we will not be retroactively removing previously applied violations on accounts that were caught. If you see a "macro group" in the frontiers or a battleground, please file an appeal (or take a screenshot and email it and the character names to [email protected]) and they will be taken care of.

To file a proper violation appeal, use the following syntax:
/appeal Violation: I witnessed <character-server name(s)> operating a macro group in the frontiers.

Appeals without the character-server name or proper information make it that much harder for our support team to investigate in a timely manner.


In general, we have some other important policy changes to announce. These changes will not be updated into the existing Rules of Conduct in the event that the policies need to be changed or enforced differently in the future. The current Rules of Conduct gives us the proper flexibility to enforce violations that may make use of the now-allowed software/hardware but go beyond the scope of what we'd intended. As such, please use the guidelines in this letter as our new enforcement policy (for the issues stated here) until otherwise updated; though understand that we can enforce based on the existing Rules of Conduct when it is so desired or necessary.

1) We will now accept player-provided evidence such as screenshots and videos for players that you feel are violating our RoC. All screenshots and videos (or links to them on forums) should be emailed to us at [email protected]. Please note that this evidence will not be the sole cause of any action given against an account but will be used to supplement our investigations.
2) We will no longer be enforcing against multi-keybind software or hardware that allow for multiple actions per keystroke per character. An example would be setting up a 'macro' that allows your "w key" to cast both disease and a heal spell. This is a common feature on most gaming keyboards and mice and is something we'd like to add native support for in-game in the future. In effect, using this hardware or software will no longer be a violation.
3) Caught realm point farmers will now lose a commensurate amount of realm points earned, depending on the severity of the farming, in addition to their account being suspended from the game. Terminated accounts will lose ALL RPs on the characters that were RP farming; this is in the event that that account is ever given a one-time reprieve and allowed back to the game in the future.

Thank you for your time and we hope that these new policies show our commitment to stamping out cheating of any-kind in our game while transitioning to a more mordern approach; on the whole we feel that these changes will make for a more positive and fun in-game experience for all. Stay tuned for more updates on our development plans this year, in the coming weeks!

Onward!

-John Thornhill
 

Kayhynn

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Very interesting. Will be interesting to see what they do in regards to UO.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Nice! They had issues with Radar years ago and I am glad they came back on them again. The program used to tell the offender where you was in the frontiers and they could zerg your small group. The group macro in PvE is ok in my book but in RvR is totally uncalled for and agree with that policy. As we know DaoC is Broadsword's baby.


Never know with UO though. There are 3 cheating programs that are used I wonder if they can detect all 3. Then again speed hacking programs would be considered a 4th if they are going to enforce that.
 

Modoc

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I for one will welcome this with open arms if done properly. Too finally level the playing field again against the Speed Hacking, Cheating POS that have infected this Game.:flame:
 

JC the Builder

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The problem with taking such a hard line in UO is you would end up suspending up to half or even more of the game accounts.

I was talking with a guy who was in the largest champion spawn guild on another shard and he says they had a rule to run a script when playing with them. Not encouraged, it was mandatory. That is crazy.

I'm proud our guild actively discourges scripting and it has been a fight to keep it that way. But we were an exception. Scripting is a huge part of the UO play style and I don't think it is a coincidence that nothing has ever been done to stop it.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We know this is for DaoC only atm. Nothing official for UO. Maybe they wont enforce it for UO.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
The problem with taking such a hard line in UO is you would end up suspending up to half or even more of the game accounts.

I was talking with a guy who was in the largest champion spawn guild on another shard and he says they had a rule to run a script when playing with them. Not encouraged, it was mandatory. That is crazy.

I'm proud our guild actively discourges scripting and it has been a fight to keep it that way. But we were an exception. Scripting is a huge part of the UO play style and I don't think it is a coincidence that nothing has ever been done to stop it.
I would rather see UO tank in an attempt to curb the cheating than use a weak justification that people will close their accounts.

If so, good riddance.

But I wouldn't hold my breath while expecting this to show up in UO.
 

JC the Builder

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would rather see UO tank in an attempt to curb the cheating than use a weak justification that people will close their accounts.
There is "good" scripting and there is "bad" scripting. A lot of people don't see filling BOD's or auto-looting a corpse with dozens of junk items as cheating. There are a lot of tedious and repetitive game actions which people use scripts for. Have you ever tried to find a ring or bracelet out of a container holding dozens of them? It is just as crazy that an interface issue like that remains after 12 years.

Of course there is the bad scripting, mostly in PVP, that everyone would like to see go away. Even the people who do it want it gone because they feel they have to in order to be competitive.

You can't lump everyone in the same pile. Is it really cheating to modify your client so you can enjoy going to events without seeing nothing but Greater Dragons? Which, by the way, three different people messaged me with advice on how to do when I posted that topic last month.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
There is "good" scripting and there is "bad" scripting. A lot of people don't see filling BOD's or auto-looting a corpse with dozens of junk items as cheating. There are a lot of tedious and repetitive game actions which people use scripts for. Have you ever tried to find a ring or bracelet out of a container holding dozens of them? It is just as crazy that an interface issue like that remains after 12 years.

Of course there is the bad scripting, mostly in PVP, that everyone would like to see go away. Even the people who do it want it gone because they feel they have to in order to be competitive.

You can't lump everyone in the same pile. Is it really cheating to modify your client so you can enjoy going to events without seeing nothing but Greater Dragons? Which, by the way, three different people messaged me with advice on how to do when I posted that topic last month.
Pretty sure I can, scripting is scripting.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@JC


There has to be a line drawn somewhere. If it gives you a competitive edge then it should be illegal. You knew when you started playing UO this is how it works feature wise. If the Devs upgrade a UI feature or something then its legal. If its modified on any other way by an unapproved program then its a no no.

Its like saying I want to play this game my way and not the way the game was set up. So I tweak this and that. I do a little this and that. Now its not the game that was developed but a game I can play my way and be an internet ego god because I can do what you cant. I can loot faster, kill you faster, cant die unless I lose internet connection, but I don't hax. I am just skilled. :)
 

Deep Ellum Dan

Sage
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
The problem with taking such a hard line in UO is you would end up suspending up to half or even more of the game accounts.

I was talking with a guy who was in the largest champion spawn guild on another shard and he says they had a rule to run a script when playing with them. Not encouraged, it was mandatory. That is crazy.

I'm proud our guild actively discourges scripting and it has been a fight to keep it that way. But we were an exception. Scripting is a huge part of the UO play style and I don't think it is a coincidence that nothing has ever been done to stop it.
I would think some of the more professional and larger guilds would discourage or flat out not allow these actions in game and I am glad for that. I play to have fun, not to be trying to cheat and beat someone just from cheating and no real skill. Which is probably why i mostly fish/treasure hunt/mine/craft/imbue with the occasional hunts with my guild.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
My thing is there is no excuse for it. If you don't like clicking and looking through stuff then quit playing. If you do but there is an issue get some ben gay and better glasses if you are that old. If you are young suck it up and take a bruise to your over inflated ego. This isn't school anymore where you all are winners. If you are middle aged get over the crisis and move on.

Well poor little old Mikey is on social security and he is just to old to click and click and click all day long. The devs dont think about him so he should get a pass for using a program to help him sort his stuff and grab the best loot. He isn't hurting anybody. Just excuses. If you cant do it no more then go outside and fish, take a walk, play bingo or just live life.

If a game is set up a particular way and you know the rules and how the mechanics of the game is then you just have to do it. If you want to be catered where to the point you don't really have to play then we should just create AI to do everything for us and we just do nothing. Then you don't have to play at all and do nothing.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Maybe they are expecting enough new players when they go Steam that they figure they can stand to lose the cheater accounts.
 

JC the Builder

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There has to be a line drawn somewhere. If it gives you a competitive edge then it should be illegal. You knew when you started playing UO this is how it works feature wise. If the Devs upgrade a UI feature or something then its legal. If its modified on any other way by an unapproved program then its a no no.
And that is a good stance to have. But you can't ignore almost 20 years of UO history. The developers have come out here and there saying "don't cheat" and done some bannings. But that has been a good 8-10 years now since then. You see everyday people in the game who are not suspended. So people start doing it just to keep up. Screenshots and video are posted openly, even on Stratics.

From what I hear one of the newer popular programs even has an option for the developers to shut it off or certain functions at least. So people see this and think the UO team allows it.

There are a lot of mixed signals and different emotions around all this.

I would think some of the more professional and larger guilds would discourage or flat out not allow these actions in game and I am glad for that.
Mid-large size guilds openly post and recommend scripts on their private forums and elsewhere. So if someone joins a guild they get an intro-101 to scripting and encouraged to do so.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
"Any way you want to win..."

UO will continue to be a cesspool of scripting and multiboxing.
This line is probably one of the worst ones to ever come from her.

I sometimes wonder if she was just experiencing diarrhea of the mouth and now regrets saying it.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
EC is worse than any program you can use to be honest.

Saying people "speed hack" is funny because there is a server side speed limit. People USED to be able to run faster when there was no cap, but that was fixed long ago. Everyone should be running at the server side limit. That is how it is fair.

I've never scripted before, but as far as pvp goes, there is only one useful script that will help give you an edge and that is the box script (which is really annoying to fight when people use it).

People who are clueless about pvp and mechanics just want an excuse to justify their deaths. To each their own.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
EC is worse than any program you can use to be honest.

Saying people "speed hack" is funny because there is a server side speed limit. People USED to be able to run faster when there was no cap, but that was fixed long ago. Everyone should be running at the server side limit. That is how it is fair.

I've never scripted before, but as far as pvp goes, there is only one useful script that will help give you an edge and that is the box script (which is really annoying to fight when people use it).

People who are clueless about pvp and mechanics just want an excuse to justify their deaths. To each their own.
Only argument here is that I'm not certain that anyone knows what that cap is and if it's even possible to limit out with or without using a speed hack.
 

Scribbles

Long Live The Players
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
All I can say is this.

When they Made EC Customizable... they pretty much set the bar for anyone else to script.

Its here to stay, get over it. In fact i would go so far to say that the game should start offering it on the official links.

That, or get rid of any customizable EC and start actually enforcing game rules...
 

Scribbles

Long Live The Players
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Oh and... if any of you would like to have an actual discussion about this matter please icq me at 609670565...

Ive long had a problem with this element of the game and love discussing it in full detail.
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
ill believe it when I see it lol. I know people that would come back if cheating was really addressed. nearly all the people I know that left the game they love because of cheating. I hope they do something. then next steps, bugs and exploits, account management, store, steam. just need fair playing field or people wont stay.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Do you REALLY think it's not that wide-spread? The other major guild on LS has freely admitted to using scripts in pvp - box, healing, targeting, etc. It's not even hard to tell that they do it - I've gone into places where they were (Yew Gate, outside of Destard) and been attacked IMMEDIATELY; it's also happened the second I've appeared on their screen, by running into their line of sight - there is NO human who can pull a bar and simultaneously flag on someone that quickly.

Scripts for BODs, farming, skill working? Those have existed for years. I've had people complain about my sampire farming Blackthorn - I've had advisors stop by, had a GM teleport me to the afk macroing area, etc. I was at my computer each time - when the GM yoinked me, I was talking in gen chat a few minutes prior to it happening.

And that is a good stance to have. But you can't ignore almost 20 years of UO history. The developers have come out here and there saying "don't cheat" and done some bannings. But that has been a good 8-10 years now since then. You see everyday people in the game who are not suspended. So people start doing it just to keep up. Screenshots and video are posted openly, even on Stratics
This. It may be frowned upon, but with so few people left in the game, they aren't going to go on a massive ban spree out of the fear of losing customers. If it were still 2003-2005 (and probably after, although I wasn't playing at the time and can't comment), when there were A LOT of people playing, there would definitely be a mass banning for use of these programs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

OldUO

Adventurer
Simple google search comes up with many different scripting options, gump changes, dynamic and static content hacks, multi client simulation programs and a whole lot more.
 

Dot_Warner

Grand Inquisitor
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
There is a ridiculously easy way to seriously impact functionality of the 3rd party programs that interact directly with the CC (i.e. alter the data stream). Why the devs don't bother to implement it has always concerned me...
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Do you REALLY think it's not that wide-spread? The other major guild on LS has freely admitted to using scripts in pvp - box, healing, targeting, etc. It's not even hard to tell that they do it - I've gone into places where they were (Yew Gate, outside of Destard) and been attacked IMMEDIATELY; it's also happened the second I've appeared on their screen, by running into their line of sight - there is NO human who can pull a bar and simultaneously flag on someone that quickly.

Scripts for BODs, farming, skill working? Those have existed for years. I've had people complain about my sampire farming Blackthorn - I've had advisors stop by, had a GM teleport me to the afk macroing area, etc. I was at my computer each time - when the GM yoinked me, I was talking in gen chat a few minutes prior to it happening.



This. It may be frowned upon, but with so few people left in the game, they aren't going to go on a massive ban spree out of the fear of losing customers. If it were still 2003-2005 (and probably after, although I wasn't playing at the time and can't comment), when there were A LOT of people playing, there would definitely be a mass banning for use of these programs.
Getting attacked immediately is not as script. This is actually a macro that can be made in EC to attack your nearest enemy. So all you need to do is hold down a button on a dexer and run at him. This functionality is also available through other programs (that are not UOAssist). But it is hard to argue that it is cheating or unfair when it is available in the enhanced client. At least be informed when you are talking about "PvP scripts." I am sure healing scripts exist- but they would only make a pvper worse because it doesn't take timing into account. Like I said- only useful pvp script is the box script.
 
Last edited:

Yadd of Legends

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
You can't say anything that's available in the EC (or Pinco's, also officially endorsed) is cheating when it's been offered to you by the developers as part of the game design. That just doesn't make sense. It's a contradiction. You're cheating yourself if you don't take what's offered, but there's no logical basis to accuse others who are using the tools of cheating.
 
Last edited:

Ariel Hardy

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
if you can script on ec, why don`t allow on cc? maybe just make (afk scripts illegal) but not afk legal.
 

Ariel Hardy

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
pretty much what UOs policy is right now from what i can tell.
Not so much time ago, a couns (THEY STILL EXIST!!) come to me and tell "hey i know you are not afk, but can you close "rxxxr" and play without it?"

It was so strange, he don`t suspend me, or anything, just talk to me close a program, was funny.

ps, i was filling some bods, not afk, just with this program open because nightsight.
 

Cymidei

UO Pacific News Reporter
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
What is so awful about scripting/macroing anyway?
Does repetitively clicking a key strike anyone as fun?
Is carpal tunnel a condition you wish on your fellow gamers?
Think they should criminalize gaming keyboards, gaming keypads and mice that can also be programmed to repeat certain keystrokes?
What about all the non-UO specific programs that macro?
Admit it, you all at some point stuck a nickle in your keyboard, and ninja afked so why all the hate?
I think it's only awful if people abuse it for total AFK mining of ore, gold farming, etc. and make it so others can't get stuff.

What is good about scripting/macroing?
It helps us become better gaming nerds and encourages us to learn good skills!
Most modern MMORPGS ENCOURAGE reasonable use of addons, scripts, etc. that make the game more playable and fun...this attitude encourages player innovations that help the community.
Some of us like the challenge of figuring out how to make cool macros and do stuff, it keeps us interested and intellectually challenged with the game.
You don't have to poop in a sock anymore.
 

SugarMMM

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
ps, i was filling some bods, not afk, just with this program open because nightsight.
I don't blame you for using something like that because I hate when it gets dark! I didn't know something like that existed! I wish we could toggle that on/off.
 

Aurelius

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I noticed that Broadsword announced a change in its policies regarding cheating in Dark Age of Camelot. Makes me wonder if they are also working towards announcing similar changes for UO.
UO already has some good, clear policies about the game - but since they don't get enforced, they are effectively worthless, except as a smokescreen to point at to 'prove' how seriously they regard all forms of rule breaking in the game, because saying things is just as valuable as doing things - or at least, it's easier and cheaper, for as long as you can get away with it.....
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UO already has some good, clear policies about the game - but since they don't get enforced, they are effectively worthless, except as a smokescreen to point at to 'prove' how seriously they regard all forms of rule breaking in the game, because saying things is just as valuable as doing things - or at least, it's easier and cheaper, for as long as you can get away with it.....
Man, I remember back in the day people got banned/suspended constantly. I can only assume that it's either an issue of lack of resources or not wanting to close any accounts for any reason that prevent them from taking out cheaters.
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Well, if people had continued to get get suspended or banned for using "illegal" programs in the first place we wouldn't be in this situation.

It would be interesting to see who's still left if it ever happens. =D
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Well, if people had continued to get get suspended or banned for using "illegal" programs in the first place we wouldn't be in this situation.

It would be interesting to see who's still left if it ever happens. =D
My guess would be, everyone on EC exclusively :p
 

Devil Hanzo

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
My guess would be, everyone on EC exclusively :p
I would definitely have to agree with you on this. But i would say it would be about 85 percent of CC users that would get banned lol. i do know some straight arrow players that exclusively use assist only and nothing else.
but i would love to see where everyone gets these "scripts" in EC from?
you can not use a certain *cough* client with EC, and you cant use any of the "popular third party programs" with EC...all the in game functions have been built into the actual client itself, hense the name Enhanced . You can not just open up the client and start typing out a script to make things work for you. yes can you create macros better than you can in Classic sure, but scripting its not even close.....the old command function doesn't work anymore from the previous post [BCOLOR=rgb(16, 16, 16)]EC Command Scripts - Old Stratics[/BCOLOR] and everything listed on that page is already built into the client so there is no need to code anything...

i can see the pros and cons of both, but in all honesty if you were going to chose a client that gives you more options to "cheat" it would definitely be classic

and to comment on a few others posts, yes being able to box instantly is huge in pvp which is only capable via classic, and not to mention with a certain client out there that ALMOST everyone that pvps uses, the tile hack built into it....have you tried to lay proper fields let alone dispel them in enhanced...its not fun
 
Last edited:

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
My guess would be, everyone on EC exclusively :p
Got to wonder if someone with the skill of Pinco went to the dark side what they could do with the EC, after all, it's rigged to be modified and customized. Might just not be enough users to make it worth the time to build a cheat mod for the EC.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Got to wonder if someone with the skill of Pinco went to the dark side what they could do with the EC, after all, it's rigged to be modified and customized. Might just not be enough users to make it worth the time to build a cheat mod for the EC.
I think the EC actually has more modern code in place designed to NOT allow such things.
 

Poo

The Grandest of the PooBah’s
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Benefactor
aside from the entire topic of good or bad or why or why not im just fascinated by the fact that they are enforcing it on one game they run and not another.

that is strange to the power of 10 in my book.
 

Arroth Thaiel

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Got to wonder if someone with the skill of Pinco went to the dark side what they could do with the EC, after all, it's rigged to be modified and customized. Might just not be enough users to make it worth the time to build a cheat mod for the EC.
Modified and customized...and I would suspect has much better built in metrics for tracking exactly what players are doing.

As for users, a couple of years ago the dev team stated the split was about 70% CC and 30% EC.

Last year in the spring Messana was asked directly and said it was about 50-50.

This would indicate a pretty significant trend in migration towards the EC.

In the interview the dev team did right before Christmas (Spam Spam Spam Humbug on the ultima.wiki - 29min 10sec), Bleak was very careful with his language in saying that the classic client was what ~the majority of people thought of when they thought of UO~ and so it wouldn't be going anywhere.

Bleaks very careful and subtle language was immediately misconstrued by Stratics posters as the CC being used by the majority. That is not at all what he said. It would be unnecessary to emphasize that the CC would be sticking around, if it was what most people were using. If that was the case, you would emphasize that the EC was sticking around.

Saying that the CC isn't going anywhere (so don't get on a tear about moving on from it) but that almost all, if not all, development resources are directed towards the EC is a pretty good tell on where things stand.

If you have a business, and you sell two products, and the customers buy a lot of one and it is growing in popularity, while the other is selling less and dwindling in popularity (although held onto dearly by a group of fans who absolutely love it!), you put your money where the growth is right? (And you try to do something to keep the loyalists around. You want both groups - they both make you money!)

Like Kelmo said in the other thread, both clients are here to stay, so we may as well get used to it.

Personally, if people prefer CC that's fine, and if they prefer EC, that's fine too. Doesn't effect my choice of what to use at all.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Personally, if people prefer CC that's fine, and if they prefer EC, that's fine too. Doesn't effect my choice of what to use at all.
It doesn't matter to me which client a player prefers, whichever works for you so you enjoy playing the game. It just gets annoying to hear the CC slandered so often by those who feel you should be made to use the client they like, screw what you like. It's gotten very old.
 

Acid Rain

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
[FILE][/FILE]
I was talking with a guy who was in the largest champion spawn guild on another shard and he says they had a rule to run a script when playing with them. Not encouraged, it was mandatory. That is crazy.
Its been like that for over 10 years. MANY PvP guilds require use of illegal programs/scripts simply to join them. UO does not care.:sad4:

I'm proud our guild actively discourges scripting and it has been a fight to keep it that way. But we were an exception.
Very commendable and accurate description of the guilds current philosophy imo but lets not forget how this guild started.

Very interesting. Will be interesting to see what they do in regards to UO.
My guess is nothing. Broadsword loves DAoC but I think UO is like their red headed stepchild that gets the hand-me-downs. I'd love to see them do the same for UO regardless.:smile2:

Back in 1999-2001 I had a friend that continuously kept 3 accounts open. Account A used everything imaginable because he basically sucked :dunce: at the game without cheating. Account B he kept all characters ready to go since Account A would get banned every 45-60 days.
Account C stored all his ill-gotten goods and he slowly trained characters to eventually turn Account C into Account B.
After 2 years of bans EA/UO finally just declined his credit cards all together. No Prob.... pre-purchased CCs.... prob solved. Having seen this 1st hand makes me firmly believe that bans from cheating would have absolutely ZERO effect on players. Cheaters would just start new accounts and begin a new cycle.

I haven't seen anyone banned in years other than blatant abusive dupers and even some of them get by & regularly post here on Stratics.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. If it gives you a competitive edge then it should be illegal.
I watched hope for a non-cheating UO suicide jump off the 17th story balcony when Mesanna saido_O :

"Any way you want to win...
:wall::confused2:o.0

Saying people "speed hack" is funny because there is a server side speed limit. People USED to be able to run faster when there was no cap, but that was fixed long ago. .
2 Characters running side by side for 2 or more screens, one using a certain illegal program and one not. There is a definitive measurable difference that anyone can test. I ping 35-ish to UO servers on Atlantic and am out run 24/7 by players using illegal programs. I've tested this with friends. I have a friend from India that PvPs using said program and he runs as fast as I do. The idea that a speed hack doesn't work is idiotic.:dunce::mf_prop:

I've never scripted before...
LOL :lol:. Reinvention of one's self on Stratics always makes me lol irl. I know some folks that have written scripts for players & entire guilds at times. They were paid well if u consider a couple hours of code for around $200. I know many of the players names in that little black book.:eyes:

Finally my two cents:

Illegal or not, I wish UO would just come out and say "Yes, its legal. Play how you want" or start enforcing their own rules. I personally don't care either way.
What I REALLY want to see is a level playing field in any game I play. UO is far from this. UO is a great PvM game but thats abt it. The need to cheat to stay competitive in this game is universal and why I quit PvP years ago exclusively playing Battlefield on DICE only servers that run PUNKBUSTER (and other anti-cheatware) for my PvP fix.:D
 
Last edited:

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
[FILE][/FILE]

Its been like that for over 10 years. MANY PvP guilds require use of illegal programs/scripts simple to join them. UO does not care.:sad4:



Very commendable and accurate description of the guilds current philosophy imo but lets not forget how this guild started.



My guess is nothing. Broadsword loves DAoC but I think UO is like their red headed stepchild that gets the hand-me-downs. I'd love to see them do the same for UO regardless.:smile2:

Back in 1999-2001 I had a friend that continuously kept 3 accounts open. Account A used everything imaginable because he basically sucked :dunce: at the game without cheating. Account B he kept all characters ready to go since Account A would get banned every 45-60 days.
Account C stored all his ill-gotten goods and he slowly trained characters to eventually turn Account C into Account B.
After 2 years of bans EA/UO finally just declined his credit cards all together. No Prob.... pre-purchased CCs.... prob solved. Having seen this 1st hand makes me firmly believe that bans from cheating would have absolutely ZERO effect on players. Cheaters would just start new accounts and begin a new cycle.

I haven't seen anyone banned in years other than blatant abusive dupers and even some of them get by & regularly post here on Stratics.



I watched hope for a non-cheating UO suicide jump off the 17th story balcony when Mesanna saido_O :

:wall::confused2:o.0



2 Characters running side by side for 2 or more screens, one using a certain illegal program and one not. There is a definitive measurable difference that anyone can test. I ping 35-ish to UO servers on Atlantic and am out run 24/7 by players using illegal programs. I've tested this with friends. I have a friend from India that PvPs using said program and he runs as fast as I do. The idea that a speed hack doesn't work is idiotic.:dunce::mf_prop:



LOL :lol:. Reinvention of one's self on Stratics always makes me lol irl. I know some folks that have written scripts for players & entire guilds at times. They were paid well if u consider a couple hours of code for around $200. I know many of the players names in that little black book.:eyes:

Finally my two cents:

Illegal or not, I wish UO would just come out and say "Yes, its legal. Play how you want" or start enforcing their own rules. I personally don't care either way.
What I REALLY want to see is a level playing field in any game I play. UO is far from this. UO is a great PvM game but thats abt it. The need to cheat to stay competitive in this game is universal and why I quit PvP years ago exclusively playing Battlefield on DICE only servers that run PUNKBUSTER (and other anti-cheatware) for my PvP fix.:D
QFT

Sadly I too know many who cheat, script and such.. and honestly I am sick of it. We all have been... but I think everyone would be shell shocked if they finally did something...

At any rate I recall conversing with Mesanna one time about the gold spammer who plagues every shard and spams constantly in chat at New Haven... She told me that they spent quite a long time and loads of effort constantly banning this guy over and over and over again... but he'd be back with a new fresh IP, CC and Account in moments. They simply could NOT stop him. Finally she said they gave up and were forced to make it so trail accounts like his could only spam the Help Chat. I can only assume that this also applies to his bots that litter Luna constantly with books for sales of gold.

But the sad fact of that remains that if it didn't work.... he wouldn't do it. So obviously someone is buying his gold and he's getting it from somewhere in a seemingly endless supply...

As for PvP I too quit that ages ago for the same reasons. I got tired of people being able to run through anything, jump 2 or 3 screens at a time and shoot you while you are stealthed without revealing you... as though you were completely visible.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Saying that the CC isn't going anywhere (so don't get on a tear about moving on from it) but that almost all, if not all, development resources are directed towards the EC is a pretty good tell on where things stand.
I don't think it's an indication of where things stand use wise. The CC has been the back burner client since freaking 3d. Then KR was the client that got 99% of the work, now EC is the client that gets 99% of the work, and it always has.

They obviously don't want anyone to use the CC anymore, and that's why they don't put any dev time into it, not to mention working with the EC would obviously be much easier, since it's more modern. Any time there's a poll the CC is the majority client, and while that's clearly not scientific, I don't think it's probably very far from the truth.

I think that was more of a statement accepting that a large chunk of players will never leave the CC, so they can't get rid of it, so stop asking about it. :p
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think that was more of a statement accepting that a large chunk of players will never leave the CC, so they can't get rid of it, so stop asking about it. :p
Give us a client as good as the CC with the EC's bells and whistles included and without the EC's fubar qualities and I bet many of us would swap. The best User Interface would win. It just requires a competent developer who has a clue about making a good UI. Something UO hasn't seen since the CC was made.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Give us a client as good as the CC with the EC's bells and whistles included and without the EC's fubar qualities and I bet many of us would swap. The best User Interface would win. It just requires a competent developer who has a clue about making a good UI. Something UO hasn't seen since the CC was made.
Well, EC has the best UI... it's just fugy. :p
 
Top