My thoughts on the Vesper Invasion

[Dag Nabbit]

Can we have an invasion that doesn't require me to have a tamer with a greater dragon as a meat shield? I do understand that the mobs need to be interesting and not easy to kill,but when a fireball from an enslaved demon is hitting for 60+ against my all 70's suit,there's no way I can mitigate the damage. Trying to spam EV's is pretty much useless because the demon is aoe(?) hitting them for over 80 hp's. And direct damage spells? FS's with a slayer is hitting less than 100,which barely moves the life bar.

Now before everyone tells me to group up,I play late nights on a low population shard. It's hard enough to get a focus or a proper event planned in prime time,forget a 2 am central time hunt.

 

[Captn Norrington]

It takes forever to organize a focus or hunt on a high population shard like Atlantic, I couldn't even imagine trying to do it on a low population shard.

 

[flappy6]

Maybe they could start by letting people know of an invasion.... . Maybe more would show up

 

[Speranza]

Is this server specific? My Vesper seems clear.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Perfer another human invasion. Add rare slayer mod into the mage spellbooks. Make sure the boss in the end has gems that stack with NPC gems. Not those lock sucking BS gems from mining carts. Add in recipe for honor guard scale armor to make use of special scales mat from the crimson.

OR another ophid invasion with the weapon drops. Randomize the creature type of the berserkers at the end. Chance drop off berserkers of a material enhancing balm of one charge.

A new walking dead invasion that doesn't entail killing the undead through fences. Paragon level RCs and LLs is always a good fight. A new stealthing type Kapetch style undead that pops out of the ground and goes for the brains. Undead skeleton gargoyle that snatches a wing bone for throwing.

 

[Aurelius]

Is this server specific? My Vesper seems clear.

I believe it was Catskills

http://stratics.com/community/threads/vesper-guard.314492/#post-2378541

 

[The Zog historian]

I was chatting with someone about random town invasions with a particular monster theme. It could be undead, reptilian, humanoid, with lots of them to be interesting, but not too easy. But what would be the reward?

"Walking dead" reminds me of my friend's screenshot from Trinsic, 14 years ago now. We've had pretty tough invasions, relative to players' abilities. Back then, the newly introduced "rotting corpse" would clear a screen. Constant level 5 poison was hard enough to cure, and they hit like balrons. My friend here and someone else found that they could teleport onto a ledge, walk into the garden, and plunk away safely. There was a GM or Seer manually spawning creatures, and he deliberately spawned a bunch of skeletons inside to kill them.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

Ooouff Zog, ICQ version 3!!!! The best...

Group Messages, pulling out favorite people onto your screen, ohhh those were the days.

 

[Lady CaT]

Can we have an invasion that doesn't require me to have a tamer with a greater dragon as a meat shield? I do understand that the mobs need to be interesting and not easy to kill,but when a fireball from an enslaved demon is hitting for 60+ against my all 70's suit,there's no way I can mitigate the damage. Trying to spam EV's is pretty much useless because the demon is aoe(?) hitting them for over 80 hp's. And direct damage spells? FS's with a slayer is hitting less than 100,which barely moves the life bar.

Now before everyone tells me to group up,I play late nights on a low population shard. It's hard enough to get a focus or a proper event planned in prime time,forget a 2 am central time hunt.

I can't imagine why a screen full of one hit killing monsters with area effect that are near impossible to damage isn't fun!? There is nothing more fun than not being able to retrieve your equipment from your corpse under a pile of other corpses. Or being killed over and over by the area effect of the monster as you try to resurrect and recover your corpse. Or the fun of not being able to target the one hit killing monsters under the swarm of countless dragons. I would think that would make everyone want to attend an event!

 

[SlayerofBunnys]

Can we have an invasion that doesn't require me to have a tamer with a greater dragon as a meat shield? I do understand that the mobs need to be interesting and not easy to kill,but when a fireball from an enslaved demon is hitting for 60+ against my all 70's suit,there's no way I can mitigate the damage. Trying to spam EV's is pretty much useless because the demon is aoe(?) hitting them for over 80 hp's. And direct damage spells? FS's with a slayer is hitting less than 100,which barely moves the life bar.

Now before everyone tells me to group up,I play late nights on a low population shard. It's hard enough to get a focus or a proper event planned in prime time,forget a 2 am central time hunt.

Part of the problem is that some of the 'demons' aren't even demons. I was being attacked by an enslaved demon which had a daemon graphic, hit like a bone demon, but when it finally died, the corpse said hydra. I bet that plays havoc with slayers for determining damage and it causes the players to have to treat everything as a paragon greater dragon until proven differently.

 

[Promathia]

I bet that plays havoc with slayers for determining damage

Slayer = Graphic

If it was a Demon graphic, it was a demon slayer.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Code Mages can take the stats of a paragon RC and slap purple bunny graphics on it and have it be a Bovine slayer critter.

 

[Gedgerez Tesherd]

Would be nice having a cultural identifier tag appearing below the name of the creature (aka elemental, demonic, repond, arachnid, undead, or reptilian). At the very slightest such identification could be updated to appear onto all three: anatomy, eval int, & animal lore's use skill feature. This allows the opportunity to know & carry an appropriate slayer, in which case all combatants irreproachably will be either a caster, melee/ranged warrior, or tamer variation.

 

[Promathia]

Do I have to repeat it again?

On production shards, graphic = slayer. I don't know whats possible on a player run shard, but I'm telling you all how it works on the UO we play.

And no, we dont need to be blatantly told what slayer each monster is. I mean, thats the whole point of the game. You play, you learn, you get better.

 

[Lord Lew]

Wait, vesper was invaded?

 

[Promathia]

Wait, vesper was invaded?

On Catskills it was apparently. Its just EM Event stuff

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Do I have to repeat it again?

On production shards, graphic = slayer. I don't know whats possible on a player run shard, but I'm telling you all how it works on the UO we play.

Most of the time. But not 100%, not at EM events. Graphic is your first choice, though.

-Galen's player

 

[Promathia]

Most of the time. But not 100%, not at EM events. Graphic is your first choice, though.

-Galen's player

Uh, yes it is.

There is a reason my guild had a monopoly on event item drops, and its because we know the game more than alot of people.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Uh, yes it is.

There is a reason my guild had a monopoly on event item drops, and its because we know the game more than alot of people.

I have no doubt that such has been your experience.

Your experience, however, is not everyone's experience.

It surely has not been mine.

No I did not keep track of at which events I experienced what I experienced,

I can't make you believe me I guess -- self confidence is an excellent substitute for accuracy.

-Galen's player

 

[Promathia]

I have no doubt that such has been your experience.

Your experience, however, is not everyone's experience.

It surely has not been mine.

No I did not keep track of at which events I experienced what I experienced,

I can't make you believe me I guess -- self confidence is an excellent substitute for accuracy.

-Galen's player

I do every single event on NA + European servers. I also do them with a quite varied and large group of people. I have been doing them like this for quite a long time.

Graphic has always = slayer

 

[BrianFreud]

I can't imagine why a screen full of one hit killing monsters with area effect that are near impossible to damage isn't fun!? There is nothing more fun than not being able to retrieve your equipment from your corpse under a pile of other corpses. Or being killed over and over by the area effect of the monster as you try to resurrect and recover your corpse. Or the fun of not being able to target the one hit killing monsters under the swarm of countless dragons. I would think that would make everyone want to attend an event!

Agreed - and it made me think... Ctrl-shift is a godsend; I wonder if it'd be at least possible to add a similar function to CC that would show tabs *only* for your corpse , your pet(s), and and local event/encounter bosses? I know I quite frequently run into situations where there's enough on screen that my pets, etc, don't even generate a tab using Ctrl-shift...

 

[The Zog historian]

I do every single event on NA + European servers. I also do them with a quite varied and large group of people. I have been doing them like this for quite a long time.

Graphic has always = slayer

That may be your experience, but that hydra corpse by itself proves it isn't necessarily the case always. Warpig is correct that it's entirely possible for a monster to be something it's not, which is how EMs (and Seers before them) can do the things they do.

One of the nice things about UO is its flexible design. A monster can be spawned, automatically from a scenario or manually, and have whatever attributes are desired with whatever artwork is available. Which artwork is simply a few numbers. Have you ever played around with bodyconv.def? I have. You can make a balron look like another monster, if you want. That's just on the player side.

http://stratics.com/community/threads/not-possible-to-restore-the-ccs-original-balron-art.301203/

 

[Promathia]

That may be your experience, but that hydra corpse by itself proves it isn't necessarily the case always. Warpig is correct that it's entirely possible for a monster to be something it's not, which is how EMs (and Seers before them) can do the things they do.

One of the nice things about UO is its flexible design. A monster can be spawned, automatically from a scenario or manually, and have whatever attributes are desired with whatever artwork is available. Which artwork is simply a few numbers. Have you ever played around with bodyconv.def? I have. You can make a balron look like another monster, if you want. That's just on the player side.

http://stratics.com/community/threads/not-possible-to-restore-the-ccs-original-balron-art.301203/

....I don't get how this disproves what I'm saying? What the body said when it died doesn't matter, if it looked like a demon, it was a demon slayer. Just because it was a Hydra dressed as a demon, doesnt change the fact the slayer is what it LOOKS like.

For example, ive done all the events on Catskills for this particular arc, and yes, they have all been demon slayer.

 

[The Zog historian]

....I don't get how this disproves what I'm saying? What the body said when it died doesn't matter, if it looked like a demon, it was a demon slayer. Just because it was a Hydra dressed as a demon, doesnt change the fact the slayer is what it LOOKS like.

For example, ive done all the events on Catskills for this particular arc, and yes, they have all been demon slayer.

Read again what I wrote. What matters is what the monster actually is underneath its artwork. Appearance is just a number. It isn't tied to anything, so it's entirely possible for a hydra to look like a bone daemon, or a greater dragon to look like a cat.

 

[Promathia]

Read again what I wrote. What matters is what the monster actually is underneath its artwork. Appearance is just a number. It isn't tied to anything, so it's entirely possible for a hydra to look like a bone daemon, or a greater dragon to look like a cat.

.....I dont think you are listening to me.

It DOESN'T matter what is underneath, the SLAYER, is determined by what it LOOKS like.

Yes, an EM can take a Hydra, and make it a zombie. But it wont be reptile slayer, it will be undead slayer.

 

[The Zog historian]

.....I dont think you are listening to me.

It DOESN'T matter what is underneath, the SLAYER, is determined by what it LOOKS like.

Yes, an EM can take a Hydra, and make it a zombie. But it wont be reptile slayer, it will be undead slayer.

Actually, I am "listening" to you, and actually, you are still incorrect. In general, but not necessarily, a monster's slayer will be what it looks like, so that players won't be fooled into using a different slayer. But appearance is just a number. What matters are the actual properties underneath. That's how EMs can make custom monsters.

 

[Promathia]

Actually, I am "listening" to you, and actually, you are still incorrect. In general, but not necessarily, a monster's slayer will be what it looks like, so that players won't be fooled into using a different slayer. But appearance is just a number. What matters are the actual properties underneath. That's how EMs can make custom monsters.

You are wrong. EM's don't have the ability to change the slayer or remove it (And if they do, I have never seen it in the 11 years I have been doing events.)

If you attend an event, graphic = slayer, end of discussion.

 

[Flutter]

Read again what I wrote. What matters is what the monster actually is underneath its artwork. Appearance is just a number. It isn't tied to anything, so it's entirely possible for a hydra to look like a bone daemon, or a greater dragon to look like a cat.

I am afraid you are mistaken Zog. I can confirm that the creature's slayer is in fact the graphic/image before you and not the monster/specials/corpse name that it dies and highlights as. The dev team did this in order to help people know what slayer to use, yet still be able to use the special abilities of the monsters that exist in game.
No matter what the creature's name is when it is a corpse, no matter who you are (@GalenKnighthawke) the experience will always be the same on every shard. For the proper slayer all you need do is know the graphic of the monsters attacking. That is how EMs can make custom monsters and people still know what slayer to use.

 

[The Zog historian]

What you're both saying has been contradicted by past events, and not just this latest one. The creature's underlying properties -- which are what determine if it's of a class susceptible to a slayer -- can easily be made separate from its artwork. Haven't you ever dealt with talking dragons, or the killer bunny?

You are wrong. EM's don't have the ability to change the slayer or remove it (And if they do, I have never seen it in the 11 years I have been doing events.)

If you attend an event, graphic = slayer, end of discussion.

Perhaps you should start reading what I wrote. I never said EMs have the power to "change" a slayer. But the slayer properties are determined by what the monster is spawned as, and a monster's appearance does not necessarily indicate what it is underneath. A monster's slayer and super slayer classes, if it belongs to any, are simply a number. Those numbers are not hard-tied to the monster's artwork, which itself is just another number.

I've been doing events for 16 years, and I've seen all kinds of "custom" work, yet I don't lord my year-count over yours.

I am afraid you are mistaken Zog. I can confirm that the creature's slayer is in fact the graphic/image before you and not the monster/specials/corpse name that it dies and highlights as. The dev team did this in order to help people know what slayer to use, yet still be able to use the special abilities of the monsters that exist in game.
No matter what the creature's name is when it is a corpse, no matter who you are (@GalenKnighthawke) the experience will always be the same on every shard. For the proper slayer all you need do is know the graphic of the monsters attacking. That is how EMs can make custom monsters and people still know what slayer to use.

As I said, they aren't necessarily hard-linked. It's generally the case, but neither of you can still explain the "hydra" corpse. That's what shows the monster's underlying properties, not appearance. I don't know if this "hydra" was intentional, but that's what was observed.

 

[Dot_Warner]

 

[Martell]

What you're both saying has been contradicted by past events, and not just this latest one. The creature's underlying properties -- which are what determine if it's of a class susceptible to a slayer -- can easily be made separate from its artwork. Haven't you ever dealt with talking dragons, or the killer bunny?


Perhaps you should start reading what I wrote. I never said EMs have the power to "change" a slayer. But the slayer properties are determined by what the monster is spawned as, and a monster's appearance does not necessarily indicate what it is underneath. A monster's slayer and super slayer classes, if it belongs to any, are simply a number. Those numbers are not hard-tied to the monster's artwork, which itself is just another number.

I've been doing events for 16 years, and I've seen all kinds of "custom" work, yet I don't lord my year-count over yours.



As I said, they aren't necessarily hard-linked. It's generally the case, but neither of you can still explain the "hydra" corpse. That's what shows the monster's underlying properties, not appearance. I don't know if this "hydra" was intentional, but that's what was observed.

Wow what do you know, Zog in another thread, arguing minute details (which he's wrong about), with people that are more experienced and know more than he does. Shocking!

 

[The Zog historian]

Wow what do you know, Zog in another thread, arguing minute details (which he's wrong about), with people that are more experienced and know more than he does. Shocking!

Wow, what do you know, Martell in another thread, making another personal attack against me -- notwithstanding I'm the longest-term player who in fact is "more experienced." Shocking!

 

[The Zog historian]

Seriously, troll, if you have anything constructive to add, please do so without your typical acerbity. While I'm offering reasonable explanations, you're again acting so butt-hurt. Was it something I said against you sometime, or against one of your buddies? Is it you I regularly smack down, or maybe you are by someone else but think it's me?

 

[Martell]

Wow, what do you know, Martell in another thread, making another personal attack against me -- notwithstanding I'm the longest-term player who in fact is "more experienced." Shocking!

I doubt you attend more events than Promathia and even if you do you haven't been as successful as he has with event items (ie. he's better at events than you, so yeah you may have more "experience" but you clearly haven't learned from it).

It's not a personal attack, it's a fact. You have a track record (anyone going through your post history can see that), you're wrong again, you're arguing again, you're derailing the thread again...

 

[The Zog historian]

I doubt you attend more events than Promathia and even if you do you haven't been as successful as he has with event items (ie. he's better at events than you, so yeah you may have more "experience" but you clearly haven't learned from it).

It's not a personal attack, it's a fact. You have a track record (anyone going through your post history can see that), you're wrong again, you're arguing again, you're derailing the thread again...

You dare to accuse me of derailing this thread? We're discussing something interesting here, and you're trolling. You can kindly butt out if you have nothing to do but blather on.

If I'm wrong, then go ahead, tell us why. You can't -- you couldn't in previous threads, nor will you in future threads.

Unlike you, I'm not violating the RoC every other post. You can "doubt" all you want, but you'd be wrong. You can claim you aren't making a personal attack, and you'd be more than "wrong."

Now let's get back to the original topic. Do you actually have anything to add?

 

[Promathia]

All I'm going to say:

For anyone who wants to be successful in this game, especially concerning EM Events:
1. What slayer you want to use will always be = the graphic of the monster

If you would like to believe someone else claiming otherwise, be my guest. I always try to help people do EM Events, but people always tend to want to argue over simple things. My experience of attending every NA+Europe event, my drop track record, and the relative ease myself and my group have should at least somewhat put your mind at ease that I in fact know what I am talking about.


Or, you can bumble around trying to find out what slayer a monster is because you don't believe me. At least the drop system for some peoples sake doesn't require much effort or knowledge of the game anymore (Not that the new system is bad).

 

[popps]

I believe it was Catskills

http://stratics.com/community/threads/vesper-guard.314492/#post-2378541

I play Catskills, and had no idea of such an invasion.....

That's why I do not like Shard specific Events and prefer way, but WAY much more global Events across all shards. The shard specific Events are usually not much known or advertised, are way but WAY too short lived because they depend on the Event GM time which is usually limited and, therefore, leave out of the Event far more players than those who actually participate to it.... Of course, if one asks to those who participated, they are happy because their chances at a multi-millionary item drop are increased as less participants=higher chances.....

With Global Events across all shards, players can participate at THEIR best time convenience, fitting THEIR schedule and not that of the shard Event GM..........

Global Events across all shards are by far way much better than specific Shard Events.

Oh, and by the way, Shard specific events' drops should ALWAYS be account bound, i.e., not transferable. I find it outrageous that these Events have become a mass factory of rares being sold the say after the Event was held, sometimes for hundreds of millions.....

Shard specific Events should be participated for the sake of it, to participate to the live and the Events of the Shard AND, most importantly, the drops should be a memento of that particular Event and remain forever on that shard as history of the life of that shard, not make the participating players billionaires for selling them and perhaps even transferring them to other shards.....

 

[Promathia]

Want perhaps to make a few examples of what you mean by equallying the slayer type to the "graphics" of the monster ?

....What? I don't really get how that's hard to understand. If it looks like an orc, its a repond slayer. If it looks like a arcane demon its a demon slayer.

 

[The Zog historian]

As a general rule, I would agree. Yet it still doesn't explain the hydra corpse, meaning it was reptilian underneath any appearances. Personally I think that shouldn't happen (maybe intentional so dexxers would get fooled with slayers and wouldn't have a damage advantage?), but it did. All I'm pointing out is that appearances aren't necessarily tied to what a monster is, nor am I suggesting someone try a slayer other than what it probably is.

 

[popps]

....What? I don't really get how that's hard to understand. If it looks like an orc, its a repond slayer. If it looks like a arcane demon its a demon slayer.

Nonetheless, since Game Master have the ability to name them (at least so I assume...), how hard would it be, just to cross out any possible misunderstanding, to add a TAG to the name to whatever slayer might be needed for the case ?

Like, for example, if the beast was of the Daemon family, and was named "Zutter the Evil", just complete its label writing "Zutter the Evil Daemon".......

No misunderstanding, no ill feeling, no players complaining. End of the story.

Also, since it is rather uncomfortable to carry along any and all slayers in one's own backpack "just on case", the story line should by default prepare players to know what to expect.
Hence, players would go to the hunt knowing before hand which slayer to carry along....

Ain't it better to have happy customers rather than disgruntled ones ??

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Take Barracoon for an example. When he's in Human Form, he is not susceptible to Vermin Slayer, but when he's in Ratman Form, he is.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Thread moved from UHall.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I do every single event on NA + European servers. I also do them with a quite varied and large group of people. I have been doing them like this for quite a long time.

Graphic has always = slayer

You are making a very specific claim which simply is not correct.

Your claim is: Always, a creature's graphic corresponds to its slayer.

This claim is not correct. It is an excellent first guess (and it's what I do, as in "looks like X let me try X slayer") but it is not the case 100% of the time. If it happened otherwise once, then your claim is disproved because of you described it. It has indeed happened once. You are free to modify your claim to conform to reality (all it involves is throwing in a phrase like "most of the time") or you can continue to run attempting to make reality conform to your claim.

-Galen's player

Edited to add: I've also seen monsters that have no slayer at all yet still have a form that would imply they have a slayer.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I am afraid you are mistaken Zog. I can confirm that the creature's slayer is in fact the graphic/image before you and not the monster/specials/corpse name that it dies and highlights as. The dev team did this in order to help people know what slayer to use, yet still be able to use the special abilities of the monsters that exist in game.
No matter what the creature's name is when it is a corpse, no matter who you are (@GalenKnighthawke) the experience will always be the same on every shard. For the proper slayer all you need do is know the graphic of the monsters attacking. That is how EMs can make custom monsters and people still know what slayer to use.

The person made a very specific claim that easily is disproved, because as he described his claim a contrary example only has to occur once. Contrary examples have indeed occurred more than once.

You attempt to personalize it against me for some reason, which is rather sad.

-Galen's player

 

[MareJadeSky]

i know when i was in vesper yesterday afternoon it was just me and gen on his tamer i would lead the demon to him and his dragon would kill it. but it wasn't hitting me very hard but when i was in brit the day before i had to get my tamer cuz my mage wasn't doing very much to it. i have a feel like that they aren't really demon so that y the slayer are not working

 

[SlayerofBunnys]

There is a particularly nasty demon near the provisioner on the east side of Britain, near where the lighthouse spawned during the invasions.

 

[Lady Khaleesi]

I remember the days when we'd play for sheer enjoyment and not for the promise of items... I long for those days.... yes I have rares of which I've paid handsomely. Never get the drop.. And I'd trade all that for the days of old when playing was more enjoyable.. That is all.....

 

[Promathia]

As a general rule, I would agree. Yet it still doesn't explain the hydra corpse, meaning it was reptilian underneath any appearances.

What? lol

The EM used the Hydra as the base monster/template. He then changed it to look like a demon to fit the storyline. Since the slayer goes by what it "looks" like, the monster is a demon slayer.

Its perfectly explained, and I am not really sure what you arent grasping.


@popps The monsters are called ENSLAVED DEMONS, so what more are you asking? lol

@GalenKnighthawke Galen, you really are wrong. Name an event where the graphic didn't = the slayer. Or name that monster where it SHOULD have been a slayer and wasn't. Thats right, you cant.

 

[Dag Nabbit]

Thread moved from UHall.

Why?

 

[Scarst]

So according to Promathia the skin produces the slayer and that's what the code is linked to, I can accept that. But whats confusing people is the corpses they produce, the one we killed in Britain was a crimson dragon corpse at least it was titled as much, used those spells, and definitely had that loot. That's why people are confused.