Final Appeal Before the Video

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It is apparent that a decision regarding a Classic Shard has been made. And there will certainly be opposition to this post. Those persons are certainly welcome to their opinions.

However...I absolutely must make one last appeal, on behalf of the thousands of players that loved this game prior to Trammel, prior to AoS, that you...the Powers That Be...consider us, consider the history, the heritage, of this once proud pioneer in the MMO industry before you pass judgement on the past.

Certainly, there were mistakes. Certainly, there were problems. But before you make the 'final' announcement, please...please...listen to this 11th hour plea from someone that has been involved from the very begining.

You are the last line of defense between MMO games as they were meant to be, and what they have become.

You will be the last to decide how this chapter in MMO history is written.

You will decide whether the heritage, the history, the true soul, of Ultima Online will preservere.

It may not seem like much on the surface. It may not seem like much to many, but to some of us...it would be like destroying the Declaration of Independence.

Please take a moment and consider the ramifications of your decision.

If you decide to deny the Ultima Online community a chance, a final chance, to see, to relive, to embrace, the roots of this...the true ancestor of all MMO games, to see where it all started...you are essentially killing that heritage, that root, that soul.

No, it might not draw back thousands of players. No, it might not ensure that Electronic Arts will make additional millions of dollars next year, or the year after ... but it will ensure one thing:

Electronic Arts, Origin, and Mythic will be remembered for doing the right thing by the very people that made them successful.

I know that there will be a certain degree of backlash to this, my very last post advocating this thing, but I must make this final plea. I cannot stand by and watch this video without making at least one final stand here, regardless of public opinion.

Ultima Online means something beyond what is today. This is the oldest, most historied, MMO game alive today...and that is not something that should be taken lightly.

Certainly, UO will continue, at least for a while, without a Classic Shard...but try to imagine what would have happened if the recordings of Chuck Berry, the Beatles, Elvis, Fats Domino, had been allowed to simply pass into oblivion, because they were not contemporary...not marketable. Where would the music industry be today?

Should you simply abandon something simply because there is something newer, perhaps more popular available?

Or should you embrace your heritage...preserve your past...further the spirit, the soul, of something that is truly a classic within the genre?

I understand it is a lot to ask...I understand the demands of business, but please, for just one moment, consider what it is that you are at the reigns of.

You...YOU...hold the keys to something extremely unique...something that has not been replicated, not been duplicated, in over a decade...almost a decade and half. And when that passes into oblivion, it is gone...gone forever. And only YOU, the developers, the producers, can preserve this thing.

What say you? Will you deliver the message that you have planned?

Please consider these words before you do...because this is something that you should consider very carefully, because it is you, and you alone, that hold the key to preserving a piece of history...and once it is gone, it is gone forever.

Thank You.

“First, the baby loves mother's milk; second, he learns of his mother and father; third, his brothers, sisters and aunts; fourth, the love of play awakens. Fifth, he runs after food and drink; sixth, in his sexual desire, he does not respect social customs. Seventh, he gathers wealth and dwells in his house; eighth, he becomes angry, and his body is consumed. Ninth, he turns grey, and his breathing becomes labored; tenth, he is cremated, and turns to ashes. His companions send him off, crying out and lamenting. The swan of the soul takes flight, and asks which way to go.” - Sri Guru Granth Sahib

 

[AzSel]

Nice post, I was here from the beginning too, and I miss the classic UO.

Thank you.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Might not be too keen on a classic shard, but your post was well written and I hope at least they listen to your plea.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Very well written, Morgana. But I disagree with your request for a Classic Shard.

In business, you can't neglect your current customers in hope of getting new customers. IF we had all the bugs fixed in the game, and IF all the on-going scenarios were completed (How long have we been waiting to rebuild Magincia? What's up with the Bane and Ophidians?), and IF the EC client were finished, then I would say go for it. But a Classic shard at this time would be a half-hearted effort at best, and take away from getting other things done.

The development staff seems to be stretched thin and new project like this would just dilute the work. EA needs to fix problems with the current game and do it well, before tackling something new.

I really enjoyed the pre-AOS UO, I miss the excitement it brought and miss my friends who were around back then. I miss not knowing every stat on every item and every skill and prefer to work it out on my own. But that time is gone and my old friends have changed and are never coming back.

A new Classic shard just won't ever be as good as my memories are.

 

[Evlar]

Much as I agree with the sentiments Morgana, I'm afraid I've zero faith that an "official" classic option will come to pass.

There is an opportunity to do something with with the IP though, that could combine old and new. I've often had the feeling that you could re-launch a "classic", pre-AoS version of UO as a browser based game. You could also make it free-to-play, with housing and housing add-ons as the paid "extras", or advanced character tokens being the only gameplay boost, so to speak.

It's a whole other "project" though, just like creating a classic shard would be within the current framework of the game. I simply don't believe there's the manpower and capability to manage such a project with the existing team, nor the desire to fund it from "upstairs" at EA.

To me, UO has become a bloated, disjointed mess. It lacks the simplicity and appeal that it had prior to AoS. Had it retained that simplicity and less item-centric natured gameplay, I firmly believe there would have been a much better turnover of players. A game that's more "pick up and play" friendly, will always see a flow of players.

The game itself has reached and far surpassed its peak. I'm not talking about dated graphics, because there's myriad new games out there that don't hold a candle to UO graphically. But they're far ahead when it comes to simplicity and genuinely good gameplay.

The thing that makes me chuckle the most, is the thought that "classic" UO was some sort of hardcore gamers paradise. That may have been the case at the time, but when you consider what made pre-AoS gameplay work so well, it was the sort of simplicity that favours casual gamers, far more so that what UO currently offers, today.

A "back to basics" approach from those running UO may well have been a good thing. I guess we'll never know.

 

[canary]

It may not seem like much on the surface. It may not seem like much to many, but to some of us...it would be like destroying the Declaration of Independence.

Seriously... you seriously need to think about what you just wrote. Seriously. If you really think this analogy fits, I can only recommend getting off your computer and out into the real world more.

... seriously? LOL

The video has already been made, the determination has been set. The team can barely tackle the current game. To have actual resources at this time would have to be from someone much higher up the food chain, and it ain't Cal.

Which is not to say I'm anti-Classic shard, because I'm not. I just think that you better get ready for your letdown.







'Declaration of Independence'...?

rolleyes:

 

[Thav12]

I enjoy this game a lot too, but -oh my ged- please realize that there is life outside of the boundaries of your computer screen.

To some degree a better analogy is something like this: I wish I could be 16 again, but with all the knowledge and experience I have now. Would be fun, and this premise is the basis of several movies, but it is so not realistic... Time can not be turned back in this portion of the multiverse.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

I like your writing style. I want the classic shard designed through my eyes though and not theirs.

-Lorax

 

[Alvinho]

IBTL The developers already said it isn't happening stop beating a dead horse, progress is defined simply as moving forward not reliving the past. As i stated many times before you like nostalgia go play a atari 2600

 

[Gunga_Din]

IBTL The developers already said it isn't happening stop beating a dead horse, progress is defined simply as moving forward not reliving the past. As i stated many times before you like nostalgia go play a atari 2600

lol

 

[Woodsman]

If you decide to deny the Ultima Online community a chance, a final chance, to see, to relive, to embrace, the roots of this...the true ancestor of all MMO games, to see where it all started...you are essentially killing that heritage, that root, that soul.

No, it might not draw back thousands of players. No, it might not ensure that Electronic Arts will make additional millions of dollars next year, or the year after ... but it will ensure one thing:

Electronic Arts, Origin, and Mythic will be remembered for doing the right thing by the very people that made them successful.

EA doesn't care about being remembered for doing any "right" thing or about heritage, they care about keeping the stockholders happy.

You want to talk about heritage? EA is famous for brushing heritage aside. They are famous for buying up companies and then neglecting their IP, and destroying the identity of those companies. Origin doesn't exist as a name or identity, Mythic is going the same route so we'll end up as BioWare Ultima Online.

Since this is a UO discussion, let's take a look at the company that spawned the world of Ultima - where is a modern Wing Commander or Privateer? There is none. EA killed off a couple of highly-acclaimed, very profitable, and very famous series of games and it mystifies people to this day. They did the same with the single-player Ultimas. Pushing those games out to iPhone/iPad/Android would make them a ton of money, as other companies are finding out with the legacy IPs, but EA continues to pretend they don't exist.

There should have been an Ultima on the level of Oblivion. Instead, EA abandoned Ultima as a single-player game.

In another thread, you angrily stated you had canceled three accounts, and I'm cross-posting my response since it's better suited for this thread:

I cancelled 3. 4 of my friends cancelled 9 between them. I have seen others cancelling multiple accounts.

This IS going to cost EA/Mythic accounts if they decide not to create a Classic Shard.

EA abandons us, we abandon them.

If you were this serious about a shard with a classic ruleset and were actually around for those days, you would have quit sometime in the past 8 years since AOS launched, or sometime in the past 8.5 years since Publish 16, or sometime in the past 10 years since Renaissance/Trammel launched.

8-10 years is an awful long time to be holding your breath and getting angry over a classic shard. That's also at least $3,000 - $3,800 that you've given EA for those three accounts over that time.

 

[phantus]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think the answer is going to be no. The current theme of development and game trends are geared to make money in any possible way. I think a CS will do this nicely. I also believe it will only have a short term(year or two) life expectancy and then die a slow painful death. Either way I won't be there for any extended periods but I wish all of you that want it luck in your wishes.

 

[Evlar]

IBTL The developers already said it isn't happening stop beating a dead horse, progress is defined simply as moving forward not reliving the past. As i stated many times before you like nostalgia go play a atari 2600

Some interesting things there. Progress you say? Atari 2600 you say?

One could argue that were it not for the "progress" of the Atari 2600, we might not have the console dominated games industry we have today.

In the context of UO, also once ground-breaking when it comes to the MMO industry, would not the simplicity of the "classic" game be more suited to the "casual" player, that dominates the percentages of those playing MMO's today?

If you define "progress" as making what was once a much simpler game, more and more complex, less appealing, or less encouraging for players to try... and stay playing, then that's rather a strange perspective.

You're not alone though. That's the same perspective that a succession of EA managers and cobbled together development teams have shared for far too long, much to the detriment of the quality of the game itself.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

However...I absolutely must make one last appeal, on behalf of the thousands of players that loved this game prior to Trammel, prior to AoS, that you...the Powers That Be...consider us, consider the history, the heritage, of this once proud pioneer in the MMO industry before you pass judgement on the past.

Morgana you know I support the cause for a classic shard, but even you, passionate as you are about this idea, must know that a plea such as this will have no effect on any business decision EA makes.

IBTL The developers already said it isn't happening stop beating a dead horse, progress is defined simply as moving forward not reliving the past. As i stated many times before you like nostalgia go play a atari 2600

The current team has said no such thing unless you can show me a source that proves otherwise. While it is my personal belief that the video will slam the door shut forever on a classic shard, they have not of yet made that statement.

By the way if you think progress is so great go play a current gen MMO, see what I did there?

If you were this serious about a shard with a classic ruleset and were actually around for those days, you would have quit sometime in the past 8 years since AOS launched, or sometime in the past 8.5 years since Publish 16, or sometime in the past 10 years since Renaissance/Trammel launched.

8-10 years is an awful long time to be holding your breath and getting angry over a classic shard. That's also at least $3,000 - $3,800 that you've given EA for those three accounts over that time.

And this is something I have to agree on in general when it comes to Ultima Online. Anyone playing the game, who feels raked over the coals, whether it be a classic shard supporter, or a person who is tired of the current games shortcomings should cancel their account.

Money is the only voice that businesses value, you can complain verbally all you like, but as long as that money keeps flowing in monthly they will turn a blind eye and a deaf ear.

 

[Woodsman]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think the answer is going to be no. The current theme of development and game trends are geared to make money in any possible way. I think a CS will do this nicely. I also believe it will only have a short term(year or two) life expectancy and then die a slow painful death.

I could actually see it happening in 2012 for the 15th anniversary - it would be appropriate.

However, in between now and then, should they stick to the booster packs, that means three booster packs as well as a lot of work on the EC.

I don't see the resources being available for a classic shard between now and then, and should they say they're going to launch a classic shard in the future once they finish other things, that will make the classic shard supporters just as angry as if they came out and said no.

Then again, the hardcore classic shard supporters have stuck it out for 8-10 years, so what's another few years.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Sounded to me like the video is Done(exc for more add-in PR?), which means no appeals, no changes. Unless you want some little change that would start this whole process over again which means months more waiting for the video - Not Happening

 

[Uriah Heep]

In the context of UO, also once ground-breaking when it comes to the MMO industry, would not the simplicity of the "classic" game be more suited to the "casual" player, that dominates the percentages of those playing MMO's today?

If you define "progress" as making what was once a much simpler game, more and more complex, less appealing, or less encouraging for players to try... and stay playing, then that's rather a strange perspective.

This.

Once upon a time, you could log in and just play the game, and be competitive. All aspects of the game. Casual gamer (like I used to be) could log in, with his exceptional armor on, and go hunt. Or sit around and rp with some friends. Or train skills and share knowledge and training with newer players. Other than not advancing the skill gains, not being ingame for a week at a time had no real disadvantage.

flash forward to today
You have been out of game for 10 days. And don't read every thread on stratics. You log into the game, in what was once very nice artie suit and mid level weapon or mage skills. Ooops. That new mob you've never seen before has 10million thousand hit points, and hits you for 150! ouch!
Or if you're a pvp'er, you log in, and suddenly you're nothing. Everyone else has new top end stuff with mods you only dreamed of ever seeing. Ooooops. Can't compete with that.

So you say to yourself, I have a few days to spend on UO...do I just want to banksit because I cant compete? Or go play Farmville...Because it looks like you are gonna:
a. Farm the heck out of the latest thing so you can have the equipment everyone else has...and spend what little playtime you have just doing that and not "playing"
or
b. Spend what little playtime you have to play farming gold to buy the latest equipment from someone else who farmed it? And not get to "play" what you wanted to do?
or
c. Fire the PS3 back up and play.

I like the classic idea, not because Im a pvp'er, but because it will put everyone on a level playing field. I wasn't good at pvp, but I did survive a lot of attacks, simply because while I the person didnt have the pvp mindset or skills, Uriah the Char had the same skills as the attackers, and the same suit. There were no one hit kills, there were no armor ignores, there was always a chance. *shrugs*
And it was fun, even without insurance. Because losing your suit didnt mean you had to go farm various overpowered critters for a month to get back in the game. You went to the forge and bought armor and weaps from the smiths (or tailors if you were a mage) and guess what? You had the top line suit! Made by crafters, without having to pay em for their time to gather many multiple resources. A few minutes, a half hour, and you were ready to get back to playing!

Yeah, I liked those days a lot *smiles*
Life was simpler and easier then.

 

[phantus]

I could actually see it happening in 2012 for the 15th anniversary - it would be appropriate.

However, in between now and then, should they stick to the booster packs, that means three booster packs as well as a lot of work on the EC.

I don't see the resources being available for a classic shard between now and then, and should they say they're going to launch a classic shard in the future once they finish other things, that will make the classic shard supporters just as angry as if they came out and said no.

Then again, the hardcore classic shard supporters have stuck it out for 8-10 years, so what's another few years.

This has nothing to do with the classic shard supporters or anyone that is threatening to cancel any of their accounts. That's just garbage talk. The decision for the CS is based upon the returning accounts and the players that play free shards out there now. All these cries about cancelling 3 of 4 accounts is rubbish when it comes to the decision to implement one.

I see it as money issues and not a resource issue. I have all the faith in the world it would be a successful money maker. The 3 booster pack per year is laughable at best. At no time in UO history with any size team have they even remotely been able to pull that off. While they don't tell us what their team size is it's obvious it's not as big as it has been in the past. I have zero faith we will see anything more than 1 more half ass booster before the end of the year.

The classic shard would be a weighted gamble and the funding would be separate from current UO goals. They couldn't be the same and the ones that would make that decision would know that.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

The video from the dev-content point of view is done, so they're not going to go back and recut the whole thing to make one person's overly melodramatic posting happy.

Beyond that, it's not worth the time or effort to rehash the same argument that has been going in circles for months or years now.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I stepped aside from this debate a long time ago, when Cal said that a custom shard (and that's the term we should be using, unless of course you want to include all bugs and lag from the old days as well), was "a good idea in theory." (I unfortunately can't find the exact quote, it was in one of the Producer's Letters and it in effect set off wave 2 or 3 of the custom rules shard craze.)

I stepped aside because my argument had always been that the custom rules shard was not a good idea, even in theory. When the Producer said it was, I knew I'd lost the conceptual argument, if not on the merits, then in the mind of the only audience that mattered.

If you are curious as to why the custom shard is a bad idea, I've made more than enough posts on it in the past, which are still find-able. They were too far back to be included when I deleted many of my posts.

I know, though, that arguments and reality don't actually matter for this debate (Morgana's mis-reporting of something Cal had said and her willful denial of something Draconi had said are alone proof of that), so most of you won't bother.

But, it remains a bad idea.

*shrugs* It doesn't matter anymore. Cal made his own bed by saying that it was a good idea in theory, and now we hope he can deal with the consequences of setting off a fire.

-Galen's player

 

[Trebr Drab]

In the context of UO, also once ground-breaking when it comes to the MMO industry, would not the simplicity of the "classic" game be more suited to the "casual" player, that dominates the percentages of those playing MMO's today?

If you define "progress" as making what was once a much simpler game, more and more complex, less appealing, or less encouraging for players to try... and stay playing, then that's rather a strange perspective.

This.

Once upon a time, you could log in and just play the game, and be competitive. All aspects of the game. Casual gamer (like I used to be) could log in, with his exceptional armor on, and go hunt. Or sit around and rp with some friends. Or train skills and share knowledge and training with newer players. Other than not advancing the skill gains, not being ingame for a week at a time had no real disadvantage.

flash forward to today
You have been out of game for 10 days. And don't read every thread on stratics. You log into the game, in what was once very nice artie suit and mid level weapon or mage skills. Ooops. That new mob you've never seen before has 10million thousand hit points, and hits you for 150! ouch!
Or if you're a pvp'er, you log in, and suddenly you're nothing. Everyone else has new top end stuff with mods you only dreamed of ever seeing. Ooooops. Can't compete with that.

So you say to yourself, I have a few days to spend on UO...do I just want to banksit because I cant compete? Or go play Farmville...Because it looks like you are gonna:
a. Farm the heck out of the latest thing so you can have the equipment everyone else has...and spend what little playtime you have just doing that and not "playing"
or
b. Spend what little playtime you have to play farming gold to buy the latest equipment from someone else who farmed it? And not get to "play" what you wanted to do?
or
c. Fire the PS3 back up and play.

I like the classic idea, not because Im a pvp'er, but because it will put everyone on a level playing field. I wasn't good at pvp, but I did survive a lot of attacks, simply because while I the person didnt have the pvp mindset or skills, Uriah the Char had the same skills as the attackers, and the same suit. There were no one hit kills, there were no armor ignores, there was always a chance. *shrugs*
And it was fun, even without insurance. Because losing your suit didnt mean you had to go farm various overpowered critters for a month to get back in the game. You went to the forge and bought armor and weaps from the smiths (or tailors if you were a mage) and guess what? You had the top line suit! Made by crafters, without having to pay em for their time to gather many multiple resources. A few minutes, a half hour, and you were ready to get back to playing!

Yeah, I liked those days a lot *smiles*
Life was simpler and easier then.

And you could choose your dungeon, or what you wanted to do. Nothing was beneath you, all was "useful" for fun or gain. No parts of the world became useless, or totally boring. With a few newbie area exceptions, of course.

 

[AesSedai]

- I ask myself: have I heard this before? Including:

... I know that there will be a certain degree of backlash to this, my very last post advocating this thing, but I must make this final plea...

- Best of luck to you all. I feel that this would not be of benefit to UO, at this time (now I know I've said that before.. cyclical deja vu).

 

[Flutter]

- I ask myself: have I heard this before? Including:

... I know that there will be a certain degree of backlash to this, my very last post advocating this thing, but I must make this final plea...

- Best of luck to you all. I feel that this would not be of benefit to UO, at this time (now I know I've said that before.. cyclical deja vu).

Agree.
And I have to post... I'm pretty sick of hearing about it lol
I'll be disappointed if the small reserve of dev time and resources devoted to UO were spent taking the game backwards instead of forwards.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

I participated in the debate about a classic shard for a while last spring. After being blasted with personal attacks by people who don't want one, and don't want any of the rest of us to enjoy one just because they like UO as it is now, I quit trying to get UO to make an official classic shard and just started playing one of the free shards which already has a modified classic ruleset (that particular free shard has over 3 times as many subscribers as the official game, by the way; that may give some people an idea of the popularity of the pre-AOS game). I was amazed to see just what I had been missing since AOS. It used to be a simple game, where armor was cheap and rares were high, where craftsmen were a valuable part of the community, where a naked mage actually stood a chance in combat, where your skill was more important than the equipment you were wearing. Where your actions had consequences, and you had to be aware of the dangers when you ventured out of town on your own. (or of the thieves when you were sitting at the bank, for that matter). Where people banksat for hours, trading their goods. It was a simple, fun game that even a casual gamer could enjoy.

I also see what I didn't miss about the post-AOS UO. The fact is that the current game is so item-based that it's practically impossible for new players to compete. It is set up so that there is no responsibility for your actions; reds have all of Felucca to themselves. Guilds have become much less necessary; you don't lose anything but a trivial amount of gold if you die. There is no real sense of danger when you go dungeon crawling. Only the best-equipped PvPers with hundreds of millions of gold invested in their equipment have a chance in combat. Not to mention another 50 to 100 million worth of power scrolls. Blue guilds have little chance of doing a champ spawn for the scrolls; they just do all the work, then get raided by a red guild at the last minute. Craftsmen are now a little more useful, since imbuing. But the stuff they make still never wears out, and some artifacts are so uber that nothing craftsmen make can compare. Nothing has been done to make Felucca more inviting to blue players. Nothing has been done to get rid of the myriad bugs. The devs have done nothing to bring new players to the game; in fact, the more complicated figuring out weapons and armor becomes, the more intimidating it becomes for new players. A lot of skills are still just a monotonous grind, taking hundreds of hours of tedious boredom to GM, and many millions of gold for powerscrolls to get to legendary. Casual players can't compete. And that's just a few complaints off the top of my head.

When I renewed my UO account for a month to keep my house from falling, I thought I would check out the forums and see what was happening in regards to the possibility of getting a classic shard. I didn't buy the new expansion, but it does look like it might be fun. However, it looks like it will be less fun than just going back to a classic ruleset, so I'll probably just suspend the subscription for another 3 months while I'm waiting to see if they do decide to put a classic shard in. Before AOS, I never suspended my account, because I played a lot; it was my favorite leisure time activity. But these days, it's more and more of a chore to keep it. Even when my account is active, I seldom play post-AOS UO anymore. Sooner or later, I'll probably just forget to re-subscribe for a month every 90 days and my house will poof, and my characters who have been around since early 1999, with all their legendary skills and multiple hundred million gold suits will just languish in the ether for eternity, or at least until EA decides to either relent and make a classic shard, or just pull the plug on the game.

It's not that UO hasn't done a lot to make the game better. I like the ethereal mounts, plants, modified housing, secure storage, new lands, new monsters, new dungeons, new craftables, new weapons and armor, etc. But all of those could have been done without ruining the old, pre-AOS combat system. In the free shard I played, most of those post-AOS systems have been added. Also, a player can use the BOD system to earn a valorite smith hammer, which will make a player-made weapon of vanquishing, the most powerful weapon in the game. Since the weapon has durability of less than 100, and loses a point every time it is repaired, even if its wielder never gets killed, it will eventually wear out. But those high-end weapons are seldom used outside of guild hunts or arena duels.

Well, that's my 2 cents worth. I think the biggest mistake UO ever made was completely junking the equipment and combat systems when they implemented AOS, and their 2nd biggest mistake was the power scrolls. Both skewed combat so that only the hard-core power gamers could compete. The 3rd biggest mistake was changing the game from being primarily skill based to almost totally item-based. The 4th biggest mistake was never really fixing the faction system, and making all 4 factions automatically enemies of all the rest. And rounding out the top 5 biggest mistakes of all time is item insurance. Never admitting to any mistakes even while their subscription numbers dropped from over 250,000 to just 70,000 could probably be chalked up to the pure arrogance and sense of superiority of the AOS team.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

It's been eight years since AoS, 11 years since Trammel.

"Classic" only existed for 2.3 to 5.3 years..tops. Depending on which "Classic" you are talking about.

More players have played UO in the 11 years since Trammel then those who came before. I.E. more remember it without the "danger" than with.

Its time to stop beating the skeleton of the horse that died a decade ago and face reality. With as poor a job as this Dev Team has done, based on their track record of the last year of continual F-ups and horrendous "professionalism," they not only don't have the resources to tackle a third rule set, they don't even have the skill.

I can't wait to see the video either, just so it will end this myopic crusade.

 

[Tinsil]

Give it a rest... Classic shard would ruin the rest of the game and EA knows this.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

A classic shard isn't going to "ruin" anything.

The question is will it remain viable after 3 months, 6 months and beyond.

Will people accept a put it in place and let it run unchanged forever or will there start being "change X on Classic shard" threads (and if those things are changed, does it count as classic anymore and what other doors does that open?).

And that's AFTER we get past the endless debate on how the shard should be defined to begin with.

 

[puni666]

...



Will people accept a put it in place and let it run unchanged forever or will there start being "change X on Classic shard" threads (and if those things are changed, does it count as classic anymore and what other doors does that open?).

This will happen inevitably. THEN after all the complaining now and then (if this pointlessness does happen) it'll be a G.D. carebear server where one guild is dominant and everyone else complains about the numbers of the zerg guild that roams the almighty classic server.

 

[Demonous]

id be willing to get rid of the EM team, stop all new content for the next year if it meant a classic shard is coming out, if you build it, they will come !

 

[Flutter]

id be willing to get rid of the EM team, stop all new content for the next year...!

Doing so would kill the game completely.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

- I ask myself: have I heard this before? Including:

... I know that there will be a certain degree of backlash to this, my very last post advocating this thing, but I must make this final plea...

- Best of luck to you all. I feel that this would not be of benefit to UO, at this time (now I know I've said that before.. cyclical deja vu).

Agree.
And I have to post... I'm pretty sick of hearing about it lol
I'll be disappointed if the small reserve of dev time and resources devoted to UO were spent taking the game backwards instead of forwards.

Agree

5 quatloo that "deja vu" strikes yet again
A) Before the end of the year(prior to 23:59 GMT December 31st 2011)
B) After installing a "new" Producer(within 72 standard hours of "announcement post")
C) Topic banning will also count as Deja vu(Was banned before/lifted)
D) EA purchased and parted out = moot point, quatloo donated to "grief counselor funding"
E) April fools posts will NOT "count"(one day of : Alibi/limbo grace period is fair, goes to "preventing held tongues Popping veins/vessels" )

deja vu vu vu vu Hey! is he making fun of me?no, hehehe, no
he is a fricking classic ROCKER !!!

 

[Woodsman]

I participated in the debate about a classic shard for a while last spring. After being blasted with personal attacks by people who don't want one, and don't want any of the rest of us to enjoy one just because they like UO as it is now, I quit trying to get UO to make an official classic shard and just started playing one of the free shards.....I was amazed to see just what I had been missing since AOS.

So a year ago, you changed to a free shard and realized something was missing post-AOS.

I don't want to insult your intelligence, but help me understand how somebody could blindly play for 7 years after Pub 16/AOS, without realizing what they were missing, until they switched to a free shard.

I could understand 7 days, 7 weeks, possibly 7 months because maybe you're holding out hope that things will revert/change, but 7 years?

 

[Flutter]

Agree

5 quatloo that "deja vu" strikes yet again
A) Before the end of the year(prior to 23:59 GMT December 31st 2011)
B) After installing a "new" Producer(within 72 standard hours of "announcement post")
C) Topic banning will also count as Deja vu(Was banned before/lifted)
D) EA purchased and parted out = moot point, quatloo donated to "grief counselor funding"
E) April fools posts will NOT "count"(one day of : Alibi/limbo grace period is fair, goes to "preventing held tongues Popping veins/vessels" )

deja vu vu vu vu Hey! is he making fun of me?no, hehehe, no
he is a fricking classic ROCKER !!!

No bet.

 

[Woodsman]

id be willing to get rid of the EM team, stop all new content for the next year if it meant a classic shard is coming out, if you build it, they will come !

Who is "they"?

The people playing fee shards? Having played several free shards, I can say that a lot of them would not do so, either because they don't trust EA, or there are certain things about their particular free shard situation that EA would not implement (client or server-side), or because it's free for them.

Most important of all, many of them have built up some serious communities on those free shards, and they aren't going to just dump those communities because EA throws a wink their way. They've spent a lot of time and energy on those communities they've built up on those free shards, and having suffered through the disruption of Tram, they aren't going to subjec themselves to it again.

It is weird how many classic shard supporters think that the free sharders will come running back, as if they will just casually toss aside the communities they have invested so much time in. It tells me that many haven't looked too seriously into the free shards.

We also still have the problem of defining what a "classic shard" is. Ask 10 people here, and you'll get 10 different responses, ranging from pre-T2A, to pre-UO:R to pre-Pub 16 to Pre-AOS, with variations in between.

People talk about a classic shard as if it's a sure bet, when it couldn't be further from the truth, because everybody's idea of a classic shard differs, and people who are all angsty over the classic shard thing will be just as angsty over whatever implementation would occur if EA set one up. If it's not one thing they complain about, it'll be something else.

People also think that many left UO and just stopped playing MMORPGs and are just sitting around waiting for a classic shard, when that couldn't be further from the truth. By the time Pub 16/AOS came out, there were several MMORPGs around and WOW was on the horizon. It's even crazier these days, with the number of offerings available.

Somebody start a threat defining what everybody thinks is a classic shard and you'll be surprised at the variety. People who are angry over the classic shard thing are also going to be very angry if a classic shard did not meet their definition of what a classic shard is.

If there were 5,000 classic shard supporters and EA announced a classic shard, there are going to be 4,000 of them pissed off that it doesn't fit their definition of what a classic shard should be.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

id be willing to get rid of the EM team, stop all new content for the next year if it meant a classic shard is coming out, if you build it, they will come !

See, you got a few things wrong in your post there, lemme fix em for you...

I'd be willing to get rid of the classic shard whiners, while enhancing the EM team's abilities to ensure they can kick ass for the next year. If we build a classic shard, the rest of the game would suffer only to appease a handful of nostalgic PKs.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Martyna, you and Demonous are both wrong, it wouldn't take ANY of the EM's time to deal with producing a Classic Shard, that'd be entirely the devs, nor would the Classic Shard impact the EM program or vice versa.

The Classic Shard will (obviously) be fairly busy when it first opens, it's the longer term that's the big question and the one that has to be answered favorably for the green light to be given.

If the last "gimmick shard" that was mentioned as a possible guage is any indication, the longevity question comes out very unfavorable, HOWEVER, there is a significant argument that can be made as to the detrimental effect that the glass swords had to the longevity of that shard, so those could be considered a "poison pill" in regards to the issue.

It's the question of longevity that has to be answered, not the impact it has on the game as a whole (except for maybe Siege).

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Erm... Dermott.. Neither of us said that the EMs would have something do do with the creation of a classic shard.. At this point, people are throwing around concepts of time and resources.

I.E. it would be better to throw more time/resources/money into the EM program as they are the ones providing UO's ongoing content right now. I daresay FAR more content than the Dev Team...at least on some shards.

A Classic Shard will only be a drain on resources and time, making the other 26 production shards suffer while it is developed and "tested."

 

[Ganondorf00]

...

The video from the dev-content point of view is done, so they're not going to go back and recut the whole thing to make one person's overly melodramatic posting happy.

Beyond that, it's not worth the time or effort to rehash the same argument that has been going in circles for months or years now.

QFT

The decision has been made, if they make a classic shard activate your accounts after it goes live, if not, try other games. Like i said, there's a bunch of mmos coming out, sadly of low quality because made by indie software houses, but they're better than nothing. No need to further discuss a classic shard before it goes live, if they decide to go ahead.

 

[Uriah Heep]

If the last "gimmick shard" that was mentioned as a possible guage is any indication, the longevity question comes out very unfavorable, HOWEVER, there is a significant argument that can be made as to the detrimental effect that the glass swords had to the longevity of that shard, so those could be considered a "poison pill" in regards to the issue.

If that abomination was their idea of a classic shard, then don't bother. Was an interesting diversion of sorts...but no, that shard won't last.

 

[Tinsil]

...
A classic shard isn't going to "ruin" anything.

Nah I think you're wrong. It'd send a bad sign that the dev team is now going to allocate resources away from the real shards, where they're already slim enough.

Plus, it'd pull away current population from the real shards now, making more people leave and killing our game even faster. I'd play a classic shard if they made one, I just don't think it'd be a good idea unless they upped resources they put into the game and made a way to merge a few shards.

In addition, it would be nothing about whining about what period, this sucks, this is too slow, I want this changed, why can't I do this, can we add gargoyles, I want skill scrolls, people PK me too much, etc..

 

[Voluptuous]

Truthfully all my fond, fond memories of old classic UO is...the seer events, the councillers, the gifts at holidays....the prompt and swift GMs upholding the laws.

i don't think this new classic version is gonna have that.

makes a huge diff to me.

 

[Taylor]

Truthfully all my fond, fond memories of old classic UO is...the seer events, the councillers, the gifts at holidays....the prompt and swift GMs upholding the laws.

i don't think this new classic version is gonna have that.

makes a huge diff to me.

EM events have been pretty good on many shards and we still receive named holiday items. However, I think you have a point about customer service: prompt, knowledgeable appearances by all-powerful, creative GMs will never return.

Back in 2000 era, a buddy of mine told a GM that he enjoyed killing rats. Within a matter of hours, town criers in every major city were shouting about a rat infestation. Suddenly, hundreds of rats were swarming major cities. It was awesome. I miss those kinds of GMs.

 

[Tjalle]

Would be fun to read some of the posts on UHall if they give it the thumbs up.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I'll go ahead and tell you what my post will be:

"Good luck, hope it is everything you wanted and that it lasts."

 

[Woodsman]

Would be fun to read some of the posts on UHall if they give it the thumbs up.

If it happened, I can't imagine the amount of angst from certain classic shard supporters if their particular version of what a classic shard should be wasn't implemented.

Maybe they'll finally cancel their accounts after all these years

 

[HD2300]

I am 50/50 for/against a EA Classic Shard.

Sometimes you just need a failure of clusterfcuk proportions before you can succeed.

It is win/win whatever Mythic et al. decides.

 

[Harlequin]

Very well written, Morgana. But I disagree with your request for a Classic Shard.

In business, you can't neglect your current customers in hope of getting new customers. IF we had all the bugs fixed in the game, and IF all the on-going scenarios were completed (How long have we been waiting to rebuild Magincia? What's up with the Bane and Ophidians?), and IF the EC client were finished, then I would say go for it. But a Classic shard at this time would be a half-hearted effort at best, and take away from getting other things done.

The development staff seems to be stretched thin and new project like this would just dilute the work. EA needs to fix problems with the current game and do it well, before tackling something new.

Depends on how feasible it is. And I still believe it is feasible. Because if the management believes this will bring back numbers, the dev team can request for extra resources from the other teams in Mythic/bioware or even interns. UO has a better prospect than DoAC and Warhammer.

I wouldn't want a rushed half hearted job either, nor do I expect that they bring up a classic shard immediately. But search for my older post on how good project management can achieve this with less costs and less time. Without compromising existing projects.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

*sigh* it looks like Woodsman still enjoys making personal insults and derogatory statements rather than joining in a real discussion of the merits of the issue.

I had tried free shards before, back in like 2005, but back then they were pretty pitiful. I kept a continuous subscription to UO from spring of 1999 thru 2003; since then, I've come back for the expansions, and re-activated my account three times a year so my house doesn't fall. I came back for the SA expansion; one of the first things I do when I come back is to check the forums to see what the current template of the week is, and what's happening here on Stratics. I saw, from the discussions about a classic shard, that the free shards had evolved into something much better than they used to be, so I tried a couple. I found that they have now become what UO used to be. I had been complaining about the direction the game was taking ever since AOS came out, but I had forgotten just how much it had changed. And yes, I believe that some of the people playing free shards will come back. Not a lot. But with about 1 million people playing free shards, if only 5% came back to UO, it would almost double UO's current subscription base.

 

[Coldren]

I know you know the answer to your request.
People will find what they seek, but certainly not here.
Your eyes, above all others, should be open.



A classic shard will simply not come to pass. They view it as a lost cause, and anything that in any way deviates from a game focused primarily around the persistent accumulation of items with outdated graphics will not be tolerated in the modern market, least of all by those who remain with UO now, after all this time. They saw what UO was becoming, and consented with their dollars.

Your efforts, interests, and passions are better spent elsewhere.

 

[Derium of ls]

If you were this serious about a shard with a classic ruleset and were actually around for those days, you would have quit sometime in the past 8 years since AOS launched, or sometime in the past 8.5 years since Publish 16, or sometime in the past 10 years since Renaissance/Trammel launched.

8-10 years is an awful long time to be holding your breath and getting angry over a classic shard. That's also at least $3,000 - $3,800 that you've given EA for those three accounts over that time.

I still play UO, have since 1998. I only play in hopes of a classic shard, and yes that means I've 'held on' for this long.

allow me to explain... My character Derium wears only a robe and Hally, I'm a pacifist in game and refuse to fight. I collect only server birth rares or event items pre 2003. I'm also the curator for the Mage Tower Mesanna placed for us on LS... The tower is in the exact location of the Fel Tower (that I also happen to be part of) only on the tram side.

This is current UO to me, nothing more than multiplayer notepad, has been that way since Tom Chilton destroyed the game in 2003. Why do people like Morgana LeFay and myself hang around? Hope, hope that we once get to enjoy the UO world as it once was. Her and I both have a life outside of this MMO, but some of the friends I speak to and see in real life I've met in UO. To some it's MUCH more than just another crappy outdated game.

As for the declaration of independence bit, I agree it's exactly like destroying that. Richard Garriott gave the world a great gift... MMOs. He created worlds with their own set of rules and freedoms. Almost all games out there are now WoW clones (Chilton, remember?) and the ones that have the freedom that UO once enjoyed all have ex-UO people working for them (EVE, Mortal, Darkfall ect). THEY are keeping the spirit of UO alive MUCH more than UO is... And that's sad.

So again, by turning a blind eye to the BIRTH of MMOs, EA in a sense burned our declaration of independence... They took away any hope of us once living in a world with no item stats, no neon crap, no dungeon crawls for "phat loots" and the list goes on and on. They took away my freedom to play the game I once loved, and gave birth to online games. Period.

If you want to talk about closing accounts, I believe my response to all of this will be to abandon the homes I have left in UO, and only log on to help around the Mage Towers. There is nothing else left here for me. If I wanted to play a WoW clone, I'd play the real thing.

-Derium of LS