They're gonna do what to cheaters?

[Luke Carjacker]

So slipped in a little side note to the Producer's Update is that they've used data gathered through 3rd party detection to identify "more than a few accounts". Apparently, the procedure for handling these cheaters is that first they will be given a warning by customer service and then they are going to "have a little fun with" them. There will be no mass bannings because it's not just?

Ok, I can see why they don't want to ban people en masse. If you ban someone, they stop paying, and UO needs as many paying customers as possible. However, I believe that they need to do a little more than just "have a little fun" with the cheaters.

What I'm envisioning from this statement is that they plan on turning them pink or something, or maybe change their paperdolls to look like something embarrassing. I'm not sure that's going far enough.

It would be fine and good if the game were all about 1v1 combat (which sometimes it seems the developers believe). So, if I take the field 1v1 again someone colored bright pink as a cheater, then I'll know to make fun of him. But what about field fights, or defending a harrower or champion spawn? If the only thing that's done to punish cheaters is to embarrass them somehow, then an onrushing wave of pink raiders could be really scary.

For people identified as cheaters, I think something more than just embarrassing them must be done, otherwise there is no deterrent. I guess I can think of 2 types of cheaters that use 3rd party programs - script miners & the like and speekhacking/scripting PvPers. They need to institute penalties that deter people from doing these things (not just embarrass them).

I don't know what would work, but I have a few ideas. For people identified as script resource gatherers, maybe make it so their pets go wild, and refuse to bond with them, so they can't use fire beetles to smelt, or blue beetles & packies to carry their stuff. That should limit the amount of stuff that they can gather. Or maybe, they develop a hole in their backpack or something, where mining gems or rare woods fall to the ground (and disappear).

For PvPers, I can imagine a whole lot of different penalties (some of which may be difficult to implement). But how about, at random times their pets (both real and ethy) buck them off for being cheaters, or they get grounded while flying or in animal form. If there's one thing a PvPer fears it's being put on foot; and I bet the chance of randomly landing on foot would seriously deter this type of activity. Or maybe a random piece of gear or hand-held item drops while they are fighting from time to time?

I understand, you're not banning these people because you want to keep them as paying customers; and if the penalties are too onerous they will just quit, which is just like banning them. But if the penalties have no teeth and only embarrass people, they won't stop doing it. So, we need some good ideas on what penalties are appropriate for cheaters.

 

[Franks and Beans]

I definately agree.

These leeches have been ruining the game for years. IMO they don't deserve any less than to log in for a day, week, month, etc to their chars locked in stockades in the middle of town, with the duration increasing every time one of these losers decides they cannot play UO without their cheats running.

Hell maybe a gold sink. 1 mil to give a cheater a public flogging in the middle of town.

Either way the Devs need to stop talking and show us that cheating will no longer be the norm in UO. Until then it's just more BS from the Devs.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Most likely, repeat offenders will be shown the door with what is hopefully an IP ban. At some point, it becomes the only acceptable consequence.

 

[Mapper]

Most likely, repeat offenders will be shown the door with what is hopefully an IP ban. At some point, it becomes the only acceptable consequence.

A ban for repeat offenders is what needs to happen, IP banning is useless as has been said many times before.

Whatever the Devs do to 'have a little fun' don't spend too much time on it, A ban would suffice.

 

[Madrid]

All that's going to happen is UO will lose subscriptions...

The bottom line is it's going to have a negative impact on EA's bottom line.

Depending on what they are going after will depend on what volume of subscriptions they will lose.

It's a lose lose for EA.

 

[Tukaram]

They do need to ban all the cheaters but right now they need the subscribers, so I don't know if they would do it.
What I would like to see is mass banning of cheaters but also a big ad campaign to bring in new players. (and what stops cheaters from opening new accounts??? I don't know)

 

[Franks and Beans]

All that's going to happen is UO will lose subscriptions...

The bottom line is it's going to have a negative impact on EA's bottom line.

Depending on what they are going after will depend on what volume of subscriptions they will lose.

It's a lose lose for EA.

When is the next fear mongers of UO meeting?

Are you the treasurer and Lord Chaos is the President?

Are they serving refreshments at these meetings?

In other words..... sthu

 

[PASmountaindew]

I think what EA should do is every character they find using 3rd party programs with should be deleted. Eventually that person will be left with no characters or maybe not delete them but reduce that characters skills to zero permanently. lol

 

[shadowgate]

I haven't posted on the boards in years. However I can say this post got my attention. I have been playing this game off and on and paid for well over 10 years of my account. When I first started playing Ultima I was a miner and I absolutely loved and enjoyed clicking my mouse and raising the skill .1 at a time. However now at age 36 with a 4 year old son and a wife. I do not have the time I had 12 years ago.
I love Ultima Online. I love all of the newest changes. This argument is as old as the game itself. Perhaps 12 years ago we had the time available to indulge in Ultima skill gaining. Today there is World of Warcraft, Conan, Star Trek, Etc and all of the different Facebook apps aka Farmville.
Today when I login to Ultima. If I have to start a skill for example imbuing. In order to get that skill to 120 doing the skill NONE STOP is 20 straight hours. I do not have that kind of time and thank god my characters are at the skill cap. If I had to do LOCKPICKING over or Animal Taming I can guarantee I would just cancel my account and walk away.
You whine and cry as a player who does mining. If the player is not at the computer or off at work I get that. However if a player is sitting at the pc and wants to play Ultima ,but doesn't wanna sit there and click over and over and they have been doing this for 12 years. GIVE IT A REST!
Its ok for a player to spend 6 buck and get an advanced character token. Yet if a player is intelligent enough to write a script that allows them to have the character perform the 20+ hours to gain in a skill he / she is cheating.
Forget this entire argument altogether you are talking about a game thats graphics are based off of a game that was created in 1992 for those who don't know (Ultima 7 The Black Gate) Even using the Enhanced Client the game is not GREAT / AWESOME Eye Candy. If you aren't going to revamp the way in which players advance the characters then don't get mad because people don't wanna spend 12 a month for a game that is more work then the 8 hours they spend paying for it at REAL LIFE JOB!!!

 

[Madrid]

When is the next fear mongers of UO meeting?

Are you the treasurer and Lord Chaos is the President?

Are they serving refreshments at these meetings?

In other words..... sthu

Your the one clammoring for a witch Hunt...

There was a poll about here on stratics a month or two ago: "Would you quit UO if EA allowed cheating?" or something along those lines.

There was a few of your typical stratics post like I will definitely quit blah blah blah.

Someone candidly replied "Cheating has been going on for 10 years now so why haven't you quit yet?". Not one person bothered to answer or respond to that question.

This is the nuts and bolts of it...

There's absolutely no reason to rock the boat. It's not in the best interest of the players and it's not going to help keep UO a viable MMORPG.

 

[Madrid]

Well if that doesn't say something...

Shadowgate a first time poster comming out and telling stratics to GIVE IT A REST!

Shadowgate good post. I wholeheartidly agree with everything you've said...times have changed, the game has changed, and the people who play this game personal lives have changed.

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY !

 

[Petra Fyde]

If I have to start a skill for example imbuing. In order to get that skill to 120 doing the skill NONE STOP is 20 straight hours.

No. It's not a race, no one has to train a skill that way. Have I trained imbuing? Yes, twice, once on Europa and once on Siege. Did I train it to the exclusion of all else? No. I trained till I was bored with it then went and did something else. Did I automate it? Yes, a little. I made UOA macros to imbue a set selection of properties.
Training isn't a 'chore' unless you make it one. I have trained most skills in the game, my Europa crafters were trained before there was even a 'make last' button. None were scripted. I never train a repetative skill like crafting for more than an hour at a time, where I can I train through gameplay.

As to what punishment is suitable for the cheaters EA identify. Suppose we wait and see what they've come up with? I loathe it when someone with half the facts tries to tell me how to do my job, how about you?

 

[MalagAste]

Personally I think they should treat cheaters in the following manner:

1) Cheaters caught macroing skills will have their skills dropped down by 50% first offense and 75% Second offense... on that character only. Third offense they drop all characters skills to 30.0. If they do it again IP Ban them.

2) Cheaters caught macroing resource gathering... First offense All their resources are destroyed, Second offense all characters skills are reduced to 0.0 and all resources destroyed, Third offense IP Ban.

3) Cheaters caught using hacks to cheat at PvP.... First offense the cheater is Jailed for 60 in-game hours on All characters. Second offense cheater is jailed for 60 in-game hours and they lose the character they got caught on. Third offense they are IP Banned.

That should be a deterrent for folk thinking about cheating.

 

[shadowgate]

I loathe it when someone with half the facts tries to tell me how to do my job, how about you?
QUOTE]
I respect the various opinions. I do see both sides of this. A quick note this isn't my first post on stratics but probably appears that way ,because the last time I would have posted would have been around 2003. Check my join date.
Now please justify your statement! "I loathe it when someone with half the facts tries to tell me how to do my job, how about you?" The problem with your statment is that you can't justify it because what I stated was my opinion not factual.
Also stated 12 years ago I had free time in large amounts. Today I am lucky to have 2 hrs if that to spend on my computer. If I had to start over then I would no way play UO. The only way I would play is using macro's and scripts, because after 10 years of UO to go mining or animal taming or raising bard skills is tedious and highly time consuming.
If you use your time and login and raise imbue to 120 manually then good for you glad you have that time to lose your life and never get it back. I again don't have that time nor if I did today would I waste it in this manor. We have sot's and alacrity all of which are given to us pretty much as a method to help us raise skill faster and make huge jumps in gains.
Ultima does not have a TOS which provides them for the ability to do anything serious to players. As an established and certified IT Professional --------- IF EA / MYTHIC is to go after players who have "CHEATED" had better be certain their information was established server side without sending something thru their patches that installs onto the user-pc isn't covered in their TOS clearly will leave them wide open to a huge law-suit especially if the account that gets tagged is a 12 year vet.
They know this and they have done the same crap for the last 12 years. We will send a warning to players. The next step will be TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN WITH. They have ideas who are cheating but without modifying the terms of service to where before you login you must read it and accept it then they can't know for certain UNLESS they have illegally installed an app on the user's pc. In which case they are screwed.
The post when you read it is nothing more than a well written attempt to scare people into stopping the scripts being used. If they ban the scriptors who play then those few who play for an hour or whatever raising skill the original way will be very unhappy ,because they will find themselves without Ultima Online anymore. I guarantee it!
The reason I can guarantee this is the scriptors who play the game and pay are a MAJORITY! The non scriptors who LOGIN and raise the skill until it gets OLD are without question a MINIORITY.
Most who are reading the postings here simply read and stay quite ,because they are trying to avoid being tagged guilty by association. Meaning oh you are saying that scripting is ok which means you are a script user obvivously. Folks are smart enough to know after 12 years to know the truth we aren't sure who scripts but if you speak up and see it is ok then you need to go. In my case I could care less if I lose my account, because there are free shards and WAY MORE EYE CANDY GAMES OUT THERE. I keep UO because it for me is special as I remember Ultima 7 The Black Gate etc and when I login often times I remember things from the offline game etc.

 

[Madrid]

The reason I can guarantee this is the scriptors who play the game and pay are a MAJORITY! The non scriptors who LOGIN and raise the skill until it gets OLD are without question a MINIORITY.

This! QFT!

Keep em' comming shadowgate...

 

[chuckoatl]

Personally I think they should treat cheaters in the following manner:

1) Cheaters caught macroing skills will have their skills dropped down by 50% first offense and 75% Second offense... on that character only. Third offense they drop all characters skills to 30.0. If they do it again IP Ban them.

2) Cheaters caught macroing resource gathering... First offense All their resources are destroyed, Second offense all characters skills are reduced to 0.0 and all resources destroyed, Third offense IP Ban.

3) Cheaters caught using hacks to cheat at PvP.... First offense the cheater is Jailed for 60 in-game hours on All characters. Second offense cheater is jailed for 60 in-game hours and they lose the character they got caught on. Third offense they are IP Banned.

That should be a deterrent for folk thinking about cheating.

1. Everyone uses a macro for training skills. Mine just happen to be alot more elabrate than most.

2. I use a macro to gather resources, I am alway at the keyboard though. I am not getting carpel tunnel to chop wood, mine, or any other meaningless task that I can automate.

3. PvPers for the most part don't cheat. 90% of the UO population thinks PvPers cheat because they cant kill anyone. You start putting people in jail for "hacks" your going to lose the backbone of this game. Truth

 

[popps]

When a game is owned by a large Company that has other online games out there, I think that sending out a message that cheating in their games cannot be tolerated is very important for the business.

Wouldn't it be worst if the Company got to be known to be too much tolerant with cheaters in their online games ? Wouldn't this bad reputation eventually hurt subscriptions not only for one given game but also, possibly, for other games that they have ?

I mean, I do not know others but personally, I do not particularly enjoy playing games versus other players who may cheat and be tolerated at doing it.

If I see that a Company owning several online games is tolerant about cheating in their games, that Company and ALL of their online games get on my black list and I look somewhere else where to give my money in subscriptions.......

So, the problem of cheating, as I see it, goes beyond Ultima Online and can possibly also deter players from playing other games still owned and run by the same big Company in the fear that also those other games might have rampant cheating or, that also in those other games cheating might not be addressed as it should.

This, I think, is why it is so much important to address cheating in Ultima Online and get rid of it for good.

 

[MalagAste]

Personally I think they should treat cheaters in the following manner:

1) Cheaters caught macroing skills will have their skills dropped down by 50% first offense and 75% Second offense... on that character only. Third offense they drop all characters skills to 30.0. If they do it again IP Ban them.

2) Cheaters caught macroing resource gathering... First offense All their resources are destroyed, Second offense all characters skills are reduced to 0.0 and all resources destroyed, Third offense IP Ban.

3) Cheaters caught using hacks to cheat at PvP.... First offense the cheater is Jailed for 60 in-game hours on All characters. Second offense cheater is jailed for 60 in-game hours and they lose the character they got caught on. Third offense they are IP Banned.

That should be a deterrent for folk thinking about cheating.

1. Everyone uses a macro for training skills. Mine just happen to be alot more elabrate than most.

2. I use a macro to gather resources, I am alway at the keyboard though. I am not getting carpel tunnel to chop wood, mine, or any other meaningless task that I can automate.

3. PvPers for the most part don't cheat. 90% of the UO population thinks PvPers cheat because they cant kill anyone. You start putting people in jail for "hacks" your going to lose the backbone of this game. Truth

Oh so it's normal for you to run through trees and Bagballs and over candelabras? Really??? I can't. And it's normal gameplay for someone to jump half to you from three screens away? And it's normal for folk to be able to cast spells while running really? Since when? And I didn't say everyone cheats... But those who do ruin it for everyone else.

As for the macro's and your carpal tunnel.... I have bad arthritis... and I don't cheat with macro's I still play the way it was intended.

There is a HUGE difference between using a macro to gain skills with your keyboard and using an illegal 3rd party program to run macros for you while you sleep.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Who knows what they have planned for cheaters. Maybe they will hang them by their toes like Pinatas on the yew trees in yew, and every player will have a chance to swing a club at them. Maybe someone who is caught speed hacking will be made to go at a snails pace for 1 or 2 days. Maybe a script miner will be frozen in one spot and made to mine that one spot for 24 hours, and not mine anything up who knows.
Best thing to do is if someone is caught cheating by this new system they will be automatically kick off every time they try and use a cheat program.

 

[shadowgate]

I think before we move forward we should determine / establish what is cheating and isn't cheating? To me if I run a script that allows me to sit back and watch my miner go to town mining that ain't cheating kinda like a vet reward I have played this game long enough to know what I am so I should be allowed to sit back and watch it happen. On the other side of this if someone is running a script and off at the local bar or at their job then to me that is BS and they should be kicked ,because that has essentially always been the policy. You are macroing and walk away and the gm pops up then BAMB you are kicked.
Do we consider a cheater someone who spends real life cash to buy gold? If so then I am a pretty big cheater cause my wife goes thru about 20 million a week give or take!!!!
If you are doing PVP and you are using scripts to win then plain and simple you are a cheater. You know you have an unfair advantage there! A person using a script to gather resources doesn't have an unfair advantage all of us can do the scripts and run them. A person running a script to avoid the extremely SLOW PAINFUL process of skill gain isn't a cheater with a few exceptions. Animal taming for example I have seen a person run a script in Ish. I went there to try and gain skill. My tamer has existed since 2004 and he is 110 to date. When I was there the dudes script was interfering to where he tamed he killed and instant respawn same story over and over. It was BS scripting in my mind is the same as placing a house. If you are not having an unfair advantage over other players then you aren't cheating. In that case the dude was making an unfair situation and he wasn't at his pc. I was actively playing and it made it impossible to play.
The funny part of this post for me. My wife is sitting beside me. She said are you still talking about that scripting cheating thing on the board. I said yes and is paranoid saying stop it. Cause we are going to the town hall and she is afraid by talkin here I will cause our first town hall meeting to be terrible LOL. Which kinda goes on the same thought process of the devs throwing the threats out there.

 

[Lady Michelle]

If I have to start a skill for example imbuing. In order to get that skill to 120 doing the skill NONE STOP is 20 straight hours.

No. It's not a race, no one has to train a skill that way. Have I trained imbuing? Yes, twice, once on Europa and once on Siege. Did I train it to the exclusion of all else? No. I trained till I was bored with it then went and did something else. Did I automate it? Yes, a little. I made UOA macros to imbue a set selection of properties.
Training isn't a 'chore' unless you make it one. I have trained most skills in the game, my Europa crafters were trained before there was even a 'make last' button. None were scripted. I never train a repetative skill like crafting for more than an hour at a time, where I can I train through gameplay.

As to what punishment is suitable for the cheaters EA identify. Suppose we wait and see what they've come up with? I loathe it when someone with half the facts tries to tell me how to do my job, how about you?

Now on the crafting tools on the right side white tab they have at the bottom where you can decided on 1-100 or max on making what ever so there is really no reason to even macro, or cheat now a days.

 

[RawHeadRex]

it's really a simple solution in my eyes... simply nerf them completely until they comply. as soon as 3rd party is detected, nerf them. Not partially, not 50%, completely. Simple.

 

[UOKaiser]

Personally I think they should treat cheaters in the following manner:

1) Cheaters caught macroing skills will have their skills dropped down by 50% first offense and 75% Second offense... on that character only. Third offense they drop all characters skills to 30.0. If they do it again IP Ban them.

2) Cheaters caught macroing resource gathering... First offense All their resources are destroyed, Second offense all characters skills are reduced to 0.0 and all resources destroyed, Third offense IP Ban.

3) Cheaters caught using hacks to cheat at PvP.... First offense the cheater is Jailed for 60 in-game hours on All characters. Second offense cheater is jailed for 60 in-game hours and they lose the character they got caught on. Third offense they are IP Banned.

That should be a deterrent for folk thinking about cheating.

Lol. I think you forgot macroing is legal ever since they allowed Uoassist and especialy now with the enhance client. Hell even the 2d client as obsolete interface it is or macros that use your hardware are legal. I think they stucked you in the Lord blackthorn dungeons of siege too long and forgot to release you lol. Don't sweat it I beleive some of our new-old devs where just released from there this year.

 

[Thunderz]

What they need to do is like WOW, create an add on folder so that EVERYONE can effectivly cheet, within boundaries. That way everyone is equal so everyone can do the same. THEN start banning the accounts that use the ilegal programs as there definatly out for profit or advantage instead of using the ones EA approve that take the monotomy out of the game.

Simple

EDIT** Iv just noticed an read the letter on herald [god that was long!!] I think its a great idea what there thinking as this generation of gamers if from the sonic/mario/street fighter era where you could do cheet combos like OXXOtriangle and run super fast or do a special move on your apponant, it was cheeting but the developers wouldnt have put those cheets in unless they intended to On one side it makes the game one lvl higher, i still think to even the field they need to let everyone do it and then skill will come back into the game as to when to use the special at just the right time

Thunderz

 

[Serafi]

I think before we move forward we should determine / establish what is cheating and isn't cheating?

It`s pretty simple and straightforward. Use of an illegal third party program. That is what they have been scanning for. I am pretty sure everyone on this board know what is deemed legal third party software and what is not after so many years of playing. If not, it`s about time they do.

 

[Basara]

for the PvP cheats (and those that use the same cheats for PvM) - how about an unremoveable curse (at least while the cheat programs are detected interacting with the client) that gives all opponents of the cheater uncapped 300% damage reflect.

In other words, you attack anything while cheat programs are detected, you take 3 times the damage you inflict.

Other suitably twisted curses could be found for rail-running miners/LJs (backrock elementals on every swing, maybe, that ignore all but the summoner) and the accounts that the illegal search engines use (the latter could be a shard transfer to a dummy shard (a login redirect to a shard not on the server list), with unlimited character slots instead of just 7, with dummy vendors set up with ludicrous prices. As suddenly all their prices are meaningless, the pages would fold)

 

[Wenchkin]

I personally think there needs to be a rollout where players are banned. Very publicly and in no uncertain terms give the message "if you cheat you'll get banned". Not on the first time offenders, but on the individuals each shard has who have made a career of cheating. Where EA looks at accounts where players have been reported numerous times in the past and with their new detection they know for sure they're cheating. Those players need to be hung out to dry and made an example of.

Those who get caught on a first offence, by all means make them flag pink. Then everyone who plays with and fights with them in PvP will know they cheat. No more pretending they're just using a good computer or have uber reflexes. Or saying "I had a few days off" when they clearly got a 3 day ban heh. You got caught once and now you're pink to your buddies. They might all be pink too lol. If that doesn't deter those players then ban them next time. Clearly peer pressure and flagging them didn't work, so second time they go. Even just extending the ban period for longer durations - 1 week...2 weeks...a month... 6 months... never coming back. If they need revenue that badly then that might be an option.

If there's a fair way that EA can prevent further cheating my somehow disabling said cheats in amusing style, then fair enough. Suck those credit cards for all you can get But we as legit players need to know that player is suddenly having a lot of disadvantage landed on them because we'd prefer to see them banned.

Or take the lot of the cheats and land them on a prison island somewhere so they have to do time lol. Just not the softly softly approach...it doesn't justify all that time testing and producing the system if the punishments handed our are wishy washy.

Wenchy

 

[Llewen]

So slipped in a little side note to the Producer's Update is that they've used data gathered through 3rd party detection to identify "more than a few accounts". Apparently, the procedure for handling these cheaters is that first they will be given a warning by customer service and then they are going to "have a little fun with" them. There will be no mass bannings because it's not just?

Well, for my two cents. I was disheartened when I read this as well, and still am. I feel as though the fear mongers and out right supporters of cheating, like Lord Chaos, have won a victory. I think the devs saw the numbers when it came to cheating, and were pretty staggered by what they found, which is pretty much what I expected.

Having said that, I do think they need to first send out warnings, because cheating is a part of UO's culture, no if's and's or but's about it. I expect when you are into pvp, as I am, most of the players you are playing against are cheaters, and as much as I hate cheating, I don't want to log in some day to find no one to pvp against.

But at some point, there need to be bans. Unless there are serious consequences all that will happen is the cheaters will eventually find a way around the detection process, and in the meantime will just laugh at the consequences. My feeling is there should be one warning, followed by humiliation, followed by a permanent deletion of the account, and all characters and items associated with that account.

Banning ip's doesn't work, because of proxy servers and dynamic ip's. Banning credit/debit cards doesn't work, because there are many other ways to purchase game time. The only thing that does work is a permanent banning of an account, and in my opinion the account and it's contents should also be deleted. Yes another account can be purchased, but losing a veteran account is a big deal in game terms, and you can't replace veteran skill and stat caps with a new account.

 

[Trevelyan]

Banning ip's doesn't work, because of proxy servers and dynamic ip's. Banning credit/debit cards doesn't work, because there are many other ways to purchase game time. The only thing that does work is a permanent banning of an account, and in my opinion the account and it's contents should also be deleted. Yes another account can be purchased, but losing a veteran account is a big deal in game terms, and you can't replace veteran skill and stat caps with a new account.

I guess you are pro-capital punishment, too

 

[FishinFool]

Forget this entire argument altogether you are talking about a game thats graphics are based off of a game that was created in 1992 for those who don't know (Ultima 7 The Black Gate) Even using the Enhanced Client the game is not GREAT / AWESOME Eye Candy. If you aren't going to revamp the way in which players advance the characters then don't get mad because people don't wanna spend 12 a month for a game that is more work then the 8 hours they spend paying for it at REAL LIFE JOB!!!

Likewise, I am 38 - work full time and have 2 children, 3rd is on it's way.

However, this is no way is a justification for me to cheat. If your lifestyle has changed then you need to change how you play and determine what is important to you.

All games have a somewhat time-consuming resource gathering time-sink. Based on your comment I would take for granted that you cheat in those as well since you think it's your right to do so.

Cheating is what has largely destroyed this game, it is why I no longer play - it is why many people gave up. The soul of this game has been corrupted and it cannot be healed.

If you do not have the time, patience or will to train up a difficult skill - well here is a novel concept for you - don't do it. No one says you have to and it doesn't give you an open door to cheat because you have "less time" than someone with less commitments.

Cheaters need to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Only under those circumstances will you ever see a tangible increase in players returning to the game. Only under those circumstances will you see long term success.


Over time many have developed a severe case of OCD, where they think they have to have 1 of everything, be able to kill everyone and be able to single handedly take on any challenge in the game. Sadly, cheating has allowed them to accomplish most of this much to the detriment of the game.


Read. Absorb. Re-evaluate.

 

[canary]

I guess you are pro-capital punishment, too

You say that as if it is a bad thing.

 

[Fin of LS]

I suspect they will take away their stuff. "Stuff" is defined as all the loot I have gained, presumably through cheating.

I anticipate this senario:
1. First time an offender(account) is caught = warning
2. Second time = loss of house contents ( possibly bank if no house exists but lets be real here--we all have some type of house)
3. Third time =loss of house and bank contents-physical expression of this, like a burning hole in the ground for weeks.
4. Forth time=banned, loss of account.

I also anticipate this:
Guilds who condone cheating -guild leader and say one in ten members--loss of house/guild house.
You can fill in the blanks on this.

Personnally I would like to see a scavenger hunt established--post the name of all characters on the account that cheat and whoever finds them in and tags them in game-gets their stuff. Difficult to do but it certainly involves the community in "justice"

Thats called having "fun" in Dev talk.

 

[canary]

BTW, I personally think he is bluffing. I abhor the idea of cheating in UO, but I also think all of Cal's comments regarding doing something about it seem fishy. I honestly think they recognize that accounts = money, and they REALLY like money.

But hey, they are more than welcome to prove me wrong regarding ongoing mass work on removing cheaters. Heck, I'll print out this page and eat if it I'm wrong. Though I suspect I'm not.

 

[Llewen]

Banning ip's doesn't work, because of proxy servers and dynamic ip's. Banning credit/debit cards doesn't work, because there are many other ways to purchase game time. The only thing that does work is a permanent banning of an account, and in my opinion the account and it's contents should also be deleted. Yes another account can be purchased, but losing a veteran account is a big deal in game terms, and you can't replace veteran skill and stat caps with a new account.

I guess you are pro-capital punishment, too

Equating banning an account with capital punishment is... ridiculous...

I am pro-cleaning up UO. But this latest producer's letter makes me doubt it is ever going to happen. Perhaps I was naive to hope in the first place. So I guess my next step is to decide whether I want to continue to support a company that doesn't take the issue of cheating in it's games seriously...

 

[HD2300]

It is PunkBuster revisited

Cheaters 2 EA 0

 

[Tanivar]

They should just make the penalties be things that will remove the benefits gained by the cheating. When there is no gain from cheating, there is no point to cheating.

When a script miner is detected, his mining skill drops to an effective 50 and all he will get will be plain iron until the script is no longer running.

And so on for all other cheats. When there is no gain to cheating, the player can either stay a player if the game can be fun for him without cheating, or get the 'bleep' out and good riddence.

 

[Merion]

Make them pink and freely attackable for a week on all facets each time they're caught cheating. That should be annoying enough to prevent them from cheating.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Hopefully send them back to ****** where they belong.

Sounds to me like you have issues you need to work out before posting on these boards. you should either be ashamed of yourself or be much more careful about how you word you posting.

 

[Tanivar]

You know folks, there is one viewpoint EA may have on most of the cheating done in game. How many non-cheating players does it directly affect?

My Crafter/Foragers are affected by the search program in that having vendors whose wares are not listed on it means that your vendors will rarely sell anything, making them nothing more than a gold sink through vendor fees.

Script mining means I can't sell the ingots I gather by playing for an amount to make the time of doing the mining worth it. I mine now & then to keep my Crafter's material stocks up, and thats about it. Same for the other resources. The Library Talisman thing gave a use for the piles I had.

Speedhacking has no direct effect on my play. I don't PvP and rarely go to Fel because my PK experiences back in the UO:Ren, UO:AoS days soured me on Fel.

Duping? The duping of Rares doesn't directly affect me since I don't collect them.

Duping? of uber-weapons and armor before Imbuing came along, did affect my play. EA had to make new monsters superpowered to give the crying uber-gear children something they couldn't kill by not much more than riding up to it. Made my normal gear play a lot rougher.

Duping? of gold has driven prices theough the roof. I imagine new players must love getting 130 gold pieces off their kills, knowing the item on that vendor they think would be neat to have costs 164,999,417 gold pieces.

EA, face facts, the game is bleeding players due to cheating. Bite the Bullet and castrate the cheating problem and let the cheaters go, or just stop making promises to deal with cheating, stfu, and let the players sick of cheating keep leaving. Hopefully for your jobs, the fear-mongers are right and there will actually be enough cheaters left to keep the game profitable.

 

[Thav12]

I haven't posted on the boards in years. However I can say this post got my attention. I have been playing this game off and on and paid for well over 10 years of my account. When I first started playing Ultima I was a miner and I absolutely loved and enjoyed clicking my mouse and raising the skill .1 at a time. However now at age 36 with a 4 year old son and a wife. I do not have the time I had 12 years ago.
I love Ultima Online. I love all of the newest changes. This argument is as old as the game itself. Perhaps 12 years ago we had the time available to indulge in Ultima skill gaining. Today there is World of Warcraft, Conan, Star Trek, Etc and all of the different Facebook apps aka Farmville.
Today when I login to Ultima. If I have to start a skill for example imbuing. In order to get that skill to 120 doing the skill NONE STOP is 20 straight hours. I do not have that kind of time and thank god my characters are at the skill cap. If I had to do LOCKPICKING over or Animal Taming I can guarantee I would just cancel my account and walk away.
You whine and cry as a player who does mining. If the player is not at the computer or off at work I get that. However if a player is sitting at the pc and wants to play Ultima ,but doesn't wanna sit there and click over and over and they have been doing this for 12 years. GIVE IT A REST!
Its ok for a player to spend 6 buck and get an advanced character token. Yet if a player is intelligent enough to write a script that allows them to have the character perform the 20+ hours to gain in a skill he / she is cheating.
Forget this entire argument altogether you are talking about a game thats graphics are based off of a game that was created in 1992 for those who don't know (Ultima 7 The Black Gate) Even using the Enhanced Client the game is not GREAT / AWESOME Eye Candy. If you aren't going to revamp the way in which players advance the characters then don't get mad because people don't wanna spend 12 a month for a game that is more work then the 8 hours they spend paying for it at REAL LIFE JOB!!!

I applaud you for being honest. This is so very true for most people I know in game. In fact, the only one person I know that doesn't "cheat" for skill gain, is someone who is unemployed and plays this game full time. In order to play effectively with them, they encourage us working folks to get up to speed. I rarely have to gain a skill nowadays, as I have most on a stone. However, I started a second account after a decade of playing on just one account. (Read: i started paying more money for this ancient game on a monthly basis) To make that second account useful, i don't have another decade to do so. To make my paying 15 bucks a month logical and sensical, I have to be able to use this account now, not in a decade from now. I admit to having used a script (i actually didn't know they worked so well before) to gain a couple of skills like magery (meditation automatically came up, just like eval int) and necromancing. It was nice to do it with this script, rather than do it with UOA. Now, I knew of a UOA looping program way back when. Is that considered a script? I dunno. I don't give a flying duck about people using a simple script to gain some skills. This should not be what people should get upset about. Ban my second account, and I will be happy still, but paying 50% less for a game that could so deserve my money to keep it going for another 14 years. And for those that say that somehow the 20 hrs over weeks and weeks and weeks give you a badge of honor in game, I think the poster I quoted above is so absolutely right. I have a real job too, a very very busy real job, and a family. 10 years ago, I didn't. 10 years ago I started investing in this game. The righteous should have gone out and gone on with their lives themselves, in stead of bashing those that did. Be glad I am still around paying for this game. (x2 now)

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

This is what I think is going on:


I think that they are looking at process per day, AKA someone who recalls 15 times a day normal, up to 200 times a day (Cant leave out you rune library people) is "normal".

But someone who has 12000 recalls, theres an issue. Or someone who Cast Whither 12000 times, theres an issue.

Thats what I think they are looking at, They have prob created a baseline and are going off that. Who knows. Its always been said that the could see all the process that are running while we play.

unfortunately if there is a will, there is a way, it will be a constant game of cat and mouse. The "script" programs will find a way to go "hidden" and then it will be like watching ping pong back and forth.

 

[Merion]

I applaud you for being honest. This is so very true for most people I know in game. In fact, the only one person I know that doesn't "cheat" for skill gain, is someone who is unemployed and plays this game full time. In order to play effectively with them, they encourage us working folks to get up to speed. I rarely have to gain a skill nowadays, as I have most on a stone. However, I started a second account after a decade of playing on just one account. (Read: i started paying more money for this ancient game on a monthly basis) To make that second account useful, i don't have another decade to do so. To make my paying 15 bucks a month logical and sensical, I have to be able to use this account now, not in a decade from now. I admit to having used a script (i actually didn't know they worked so well before) to gain a couple of skills like magery (meditation automatically came up, just like eval int) and necromancing. It was nice to do it with this script, rather than do it with UOA. Now, I knew of a UOA looping program way back when. Is that considered a script? I dunno. I don't give a flying duck about people using a simple script to gain some skills. This should not be what people should get upset about. Ban my second account, and I will be happy still, but paying 50% less for a game that could so deserve my money to keep it going for another 14 years. And for those that say that somehow the 20 hrs over weeks and weeks and weeks give you a badge of honor in game, I think the poster I quoted above is so absolutely right. I have a real job too, a very very busy real job, and a family. 10 years ago, I didn't. 10 years ago I started investing in this game. The righteous should have gone out and gone on with their lives themselves, in stead of bashing those that did. Be glad I am still around paying for this game. (x2 now)

I agree with this in so far as that skill gain scripting or looping is by far the least cheating problem.

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

I find it funny how people come on here and BASH scripting because people use it for skills and supplies, But they are damned happy to be paying 10gp per iron ingots, instead of 50.


Or how about those vendor search websites we all have become so fond of? Get rid of them? Yeah right, Lets get real people. How about A vendor search option instead of boosting the ridiculous idea of factions and battle arenas, how stupid of an idea, They will be Bare in one month.

Is scripting Hurting the game? No, the first issue is that it never should of got like this, Most of these programs and process were allowed to walk with an unseen eye, they became an "excepted" part of UO, now there is going to be a warning, which will set things right for a bit, but I would venture to say that 90% of all UO players use a script or a "loop type program".

Did scripting make players go away? Maybe I mean there is so many variables in a players life that, to press the button "as that one single event" I dont know.

Uo and scripting is like Peanut butter and chocolate , they are always good together and have no plans of separating.

 

[Trevelyan]

Sounds to me like you have issues you need to work out before posting on these boards. you should either be ashamed of yourself or be much more careful about how you word you posting.

I grew up learning that this is what a cheater is (spelt correctly, of course)

No such word as "cheater".

 

[Trevelyan]

Equating banning an account with capital punishment is... ridiculous...

I am pro-cleaning up UO. But this latest producer's letter makes me doubt it is ever going to happen. Perhaps I was naive to hope in the first place. So I guess my next step is to decide whether I want to continue to support a company that doesn't take the issue of cheating in it's games seriously...

Not ridiculous. If someone is innocent, either through false accusations or personal ignorance, your solution leaves no way for the consequences to be reversed.

 

[Llewen]

Not ridiculous. If someone is innocent, either through false accusations or personal ignorance, your solution leaves no way for the consequences to be reversed.

Given that I proposed a three strike system, the chances of this are unlikely. And very few cheaters will man up and say, yes I cheated, and I got caught. Most will proclaim their innocence to the heavens...

 

[Balinor of Pk?]

Not ridiculous. If someone is innocent, either through false accusations or personal ignorance, your solution leaves no way for the consequences to be reversed.

And lets not forget all the times over the years that EA/ORIGIN has declared something to be cheating, then added it to the client as a feature, or deemed it not cheating... There's been countless people banned for things that are now client/assist options.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I grew up learning that this is what a cheater is (spelt correctly, of course)

No such word as "cheater".

no such word as "spelt" as you use it... spelt is a wheat-like plant, not an alternate tense of "spelled."

My point is, you should have re-worded or been more careful about something that could quite easily be taken as racist, without much stretch of the imagination. I'm not trying to correct your English, it was just WRONG, however you try to justify it, to use that phrase as you did.

 

[Trevelyan]

no such word as "spelt" as you use it... spelt is a wheat-like plant, not an alternate tense of "spelled."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/spelt
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spelt

 

[G.v.P]

Ok, I can see why they don't want to ban people en masse. If you ban someone, they stop paying, and UO needs as many paying customers as possible.

Ha. What happens when you ban someone is you keep all the money they spent on the account and they lose the ability to play. So what might happen is the first people to be banned will be people fresh off 6 month charges, haha. But also, a lot of cheaters end up making new accounts if they get banned, and a lot of cheaters do get bored of the game, and don't stay very long. So it's an interesting thing to study, a psychoanalysis of a cheater.

But yeah, to me from what I've experienced, a cheater will come back more often than quit if he is caught, until a real offense surfaces, like a real crime pinned to his public record. I doubt that will happen though. Cheaters that don't get caught often get bored and quit on their own, because they've removed the challenge from the game. And then of course there are those who cheat only after they've accomplished everything else, but I'm not sure if that can happen in UO since there really is no possible way to complete everything in this game unless you play 24/7.

Most likely, repeat offenders will be shown the door with what is hopefully an IP ban. At some point, it becomes the only acceptable consequence.

If you ban an IP it might screw up some people, but most cheaters will probably be on a dynamic IP. I know some people have stated banning a credit card wouldn't work, but I think it would be a better idea than banning an IP that could end up blocking a new player down the road. If only it charged a player additional real life money, that would make people pause.

I haven't posted on the boards in years

Welcome back. How long ago has it been since you wrote in paragraphs?

UO is only a "job" if you allow it to be. I can train any skill in this game within a weekend outside of perhaps some bard/tame skills. Work long, work wrong. For the tougher skills, there are now SOTs and Alacrity scrolls. In fact, my friend got a Cart SOT off a T-Map, how ironic is that. And you can get those off of LvL 2s. Easy. There's no excuse for a cheater.

1. Everyone uses a macro for training skills. Mine just happen to be alot more elabrate than most.

And if you're using an illegal third party program to do your work for you then your carpal-free hands should have to pick up the phone and dial UO to find out why you've been blocked from playing.

3. PvPers for the most part don't cheat. 90% of the UO population thinks PvPers cheat because they cant kill anyone. You start putting people in jail for "hacks" your going to lose the backbone of this game. Truth

I'd say probably 75% of all PvPers have speeder to use when others use it or whenever they want, from my experience playing with guilds. As for other cheats, I'm not sure I could put a percentage on them, but the majority of PvPers use speeder because it is not enforced. Well, nothing is enforced, really, but I agree not everyone uses the bigger cheats for PvP, especially since some of them cost money to use.

Likewise, PvPers aren't the majority who pays for this game, and they aren't a "backbone." Otherwise, UO: Ren wouldn't have happened. The majority of PvPers are paying brokers who operate more illegal third party programs and take money away from EA via script miners, and other outlets. If Cal and the team went about things more aggressively like Draconi, then the PvP scene would be in better shape. What people don't get is when you support cheaters you actually put less money in the pocket of EA, which means the game gets less funding to fix bugs, etc.

Uo and scripting is like Peanut butter and chocolate , they are always good together and have no plans of separating.

In any situation where there is a problem, people look for a solution, or a better solution. In the case of this game, using a means outside of normal operating, aside from UOA, is considered illegal. So whether it tastes good or not, it's a poisoned apple. I agree EA needs to implement some advanced features, but supporting other players instead of EA only hurts the product.