Come Visit Fel

[ACB1961]

Why are people afraid of Fel? Fel used to be all we had. No one thought omg I'm scared I'm in Fel. We fellowshipped, helped each other and had happy productive lives. Sure, now and then someone would rob you. Life's like that.

The guard zone are gone. Ok, so what. What if you get killed? How important is that any way? The only way they can get your stuff is if you didn't insure it or something goes wrong. Its FUN in Fel because you have to always be wary. It probably wouldn't cost you 10k if you did get killed.

Any way, I'd like to extend an invitation to visit our dreary shores (because the whole place is surrounded by water, and basically everything is dead). You can get robes here (good ones and bad ones).

No dancing broccoli this time its more like a sneaking around very carefully broccoli.

 

[Chad Sexington]

Just come to Siege.

Today's fel is nothing like it was before. Based on the years I played exclusively in felucca on Napa, fel is just filled with two types of people (with rare exception): people who want to kill you on sight and people who run away from you on sight.

That's not "the good ol' days." Neither is Siege, but it's close.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Wish in one hand and sheet in the other. Most know what will happen first

 

[Salya Sin]

No dancing broccoli this time its more like a sneaking around very carefully broccoli.

ROFLMFAO! Ok... thats just hilarious! We need a sneaking, leery broccoli graphic...

And NO! I'm scared... I am the worst PvPer ever so all I do is die... and I die on sight... everyone in Fel kills me... every single time I go there... on Siege I would be forced to take up a ghost life and just haunt players... Not sure that would be getting bang for my buck? Ahhh... there he is!

 

[Prince Caspian]

Fel can be fun. I'm all for upping the actual rewards in Fel, to bring more folks to it... but of course the PKs are still lurking around.

Last night in fact I got PKed while collecting sparklies. But that's OK, the fact of the matter is I made the choice to go through that red gate and I knew what that entailed. When people whine about being ganked and robbed in Fel I usually just point out there has never been any event in this game that FORCES you to go there. Stay out and you are safe.

But by the same token, PKs haven't changed much. Their behavior is what drove players away in the first place. Truth is, a PvP-designed character attacking a mule or PvM character often is a foregone conclusion, and I still maintain 99% of PKs do it to simply antagonize other players. Not the
"challenge."

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I've mined solely in Fel for over a year now, haven't run into any problems *shrug*

 

[ACB1961]

ROFLMFAO! Ok... thats just hilarious! We need a sneaking, leery broccoli graphic...

And NO! I'm scared... I am the worst PvPer ever so all I do is die... and I die on sight... everyone in Fel kills me... every single time I go there... on Siege I would be forced to take up a ghost life and just haunt players... Not sure that would be getting bang for my buck? Ahhh... there he is!

I LOVE an honest man. Do this. Make a char with 120 stealth 100 hiding, get good armor and then visit dreary fel. Almost no one will ever find you. Make sure to put tele on something like f1 because even in combat you can insta hide more than 9 times out of 10if you tele hide. You'll love it.

 

[Kiminality]

The whole "scared of Fel" thing is a load of nonsense.
I'd wager that the main reason people don't go to Fel relates to:

But by the same token, PKs haven't changed much. Their behavior is what drove players away in the first place. Truth is, a PvP-designed character attacking a mule or PvM character often is a foregone conclusion, and I still maintain 99% of PKs do it to simply antagonize other players. Not the
"challenge."

Unless someone's actually in to the "excitement" or "thrill" of having their gameplay completely disrupted on someone else's whim, then when given a choice between "yes" and "no" the answer is neither hard to figure out, or particularly related to fear.
Yes, you could argue that not wanting to chance it is fear of the possibility. But it's equally arguable that it's a fairly elementary solution to a problem, along the lines of "'Doctor, doctor! It hurts when I [action]' 'Then don't [action]'".

 

[Sindris]

Both of my houses are in Fel. I go to fel to mine and chop wood, gather leather etc. I don't see much point in going there for anything else though. Fel is so deserted most days I could run from one end of the map to the other and never see another soul. Yup, pretty exciting.

 

[Alezi]

I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned hacks or scripts so far! Usually every Fel thread fills up with ".. I would PvP in Felucca if you didn't have to use hacks and scripts to compete.".

Felucca just simply is the best place.

Someone bothering you? Kill them!
Too much competition at an IDOC? Kill them!
Someone shows up at your champ spawn? Kill them!
AFK macroers inside their houses? Kill them!

 

[mdgaar]

SAT Analogy for the Kids:

Now Fel is to back in the day Fel, as Present Washington DC is to Fallout 3 Washington DC.

Both originals were kinda dangerous, but the latter forms... youre just asking for it

 

[Prince Caspian]

The whole "scared of Fel" thing is a load of nonsense.

People don't play Battlefield 1943 because they are afraid of it!!!

I mean, that must be it. It couldn't possibly be because they simply prefer not to, or they don't find it fun. It's FEAR! CHICKENS!

 

[jfkeach]

One of my four houses is in Fel.
I do all my resource gathering in Fel.
I train my pets in Fel.
I do champ spawns in Fel.
I go to Fel for Fame and Karma for Honor and Sac.
I go to fel for all of the events like harvesting souls.

And you know what. I know that if I go to fel, I take a chance on getting ganked. And yes, it happens. And yes, I know some cheat with exploits. I just lost a AoF there last week due to one. Did that stop me from hunting in Fel? No. When I go there, I expect some risk, and I know some cheat. I know that when I lost the AoF, it took the Red about 15 times to actually kill me. I was morphed and dismounted on a tamer when he actually caught me. Did I cry when I lost my AoF, no. I simply went to my Tram Castle and got another one. One of the spares.

Yes, you have griefers in fel. But honestly, you have them in Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar, and now in the new dungeons. However in Fel, you can do something about it. In fel, people tend to be either straight out murderers, or much more polite than in Tram, cause they know that if they push the wrong buttons you CAN do something about it. In the Tram ruleset, you can invite the butt orifice to take a trip to fel with you, see how many actually take you up on it.

 

[Alezi]

And yes, I know some cheat with exploits. I just lost a AoF there last week due to one. Did that stop me from hunting in Fel? No. When I go there, I expect some risk, and I know some cheat. I know that when I lost the AoF, it took the Red about 15 times to actually kill me. I was morphed and dismounted on a tamer when he actually caught me. Did I cry when I lost my AoF, no. I simply went to my Tram Castle and got another one. One of the spares.

I've never heard of an exploit which makes you drop insured items (assuming the AoF was insured). I've never been hit with the so called insurance bug either.

 

[jfkeach]

I would say my biggest complaint about fel, is the blocking. I can see having to work your way past a dragon, they are big beasts. But a rat or rabbit you should be able to kick out of your way or step over

 

[jfkeach]

I've never heard of an exploit which makes you drop insured items (assuming the AoF was insured). I've never been hit with the so called insurance bug either.

Whether it be bug or exploit, I lost an AoF that was insured, and it was in good repair so it did not Poof. I have lost other insured items, and one red was res killing, and then laughed telling me "I got those arms finally", and yes, my arms were gone. So, yes there is a slight chance you will lose insured stuff. I have figured out for the most part how that is done, but I am not going to disclose in public forum. I submitted a bug report, but it still happens. People still cheat. Its frustrating and inconvenient, but not world shattering.

I was more concerned about the housing placement bug that put my castle at risk. That is a BUG that needs to be addressed but got swept under the carpet.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Why are people afraid of Fel?

No one is afraid of Fel.



No one is scared to go to Fel.



Most just prefer not to be around the behavior that is prevalent there. Change the behavior, and you'd see more people there. Since that will never happen, the majority will continue to stay in Tram.

 

[Alezi]

I would say my biggest complaint about fel, is the blocking. I can see having to work your way past a dragon, they are big beasts. But a rat or rabbit you should be able to kick out of your way or step over

 

[Prince Caspian]

LOL don't forget the Stuffy Dwagons.

 

[Prince Caspian]

Yes, you have griefers in fel. But honestly, you have them in Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar, and now in the new dungeons.

Oh, absolutely.

But by the same token, strangers don't always make a friggin beeline to you to screw with you simply because you show up on their screen.

In over a decade of playing UO, I can count on one hand the number of times a red happened by who *didn't* drop everything and attack me at once.

 

[Miriandel]

Translation:

We need targets, come bend over



j/k

 

[ACB1961]

No one is afraid of Fel.



No one is scared to go to Fel.



Most just prefer not to be around the behavior that is prevalent there. Change the behavior, and you'd see more people there. Since that will never happen, the majority will continue to stay in Tram.

Now most of the time you're right. This time you are plain wrong. Damn near everyone that plays is afraid to go to Fel. I watch myself over there too. Mainly because now and then 5 people show up looking someone to gank, and some of them are very good at it.

Fel is a plain ghost town now there are no guard zones.

 

[ACB1961]

Translation:

We need targets, come bend over



j/k

Normally, that would be true. But, I wouldn't kill anyone unless I absolutely had to. Its a personal choice kinda thing.

Most of the time if you get their health low a couple times they will run off, or get some help.

 

[Maplestone]

I cannot foresee any reason I would ever want to play in Fel, no matter what rewards are put there. I'm introverted enough without having to live in a constant state of paranoia around other people.

 

[Storm]

I cannot foresee any reason I would ever want to play in Fel, no matter what rewards are put there. I'm introverted enough without having to live in a constant state of paranoia around other people.

That is my theory also! the first couple of years I played that is all there was !
and I had enough of the greefing rez killing house sitting gankers then !
Thanks for the invitation! But I will be declining!

 

[Gowron]

No one is afraid of Fel.



No one is scared to go to Fel.



Most just prefer not to be around the behavior that is prevalent there. Change the behavior, and you'd see more people there. Since that will never happen, the majority will continue to stay in Tram.

Now most of the time you're right. This time you are plain wrong. Damn near everyone that plays is afraid to go to Fel. I watch myself over there too. Mainly because now and then 5 people show up looking someone to gank, and some of them are very good at it.

Fel is a plain ghost town now there are no guard zones.

Assuming that the lack of interest is induced by fear is incredibly faulty logic at best and just an absurd amount of pride in your "PvP" ability at worst.

I'm not afraid to go anywhere, it's a matter of answering the question "Is the prize worth the effort and risk?"

If the answer is "No", then I choose the next option.

Also, back in the "Good Ole Days" when there was no Tram, a Red player was taking a greater risk in initiating combat than the blue being attacked. Also, I rarely saw more than 3 reds in a group, and if met with similar numbers, they would usually break contact.

Return the penalties that reds had back in the day, and I'm fairly sure that you'll see a resurgeance in Fel presence.

 

[PASmountaindew]

Why are people afraid of Fel? Fel used to be all we had. No one thought omg I'm scared I'm in Fel. We fellowshipped, helped each other and had happy productive lives. Sure, now and then someone would rob you. Life's like that.

That was all before scripts and hacks and cheats. Nowadays you don't have the chance to run away. You are dead sometimes as soon as you recall or gate into felluca.

 

[o2bavr6]

The whole "scared of Fel" thing is a load of nonsense.
I'd wager that the main reason people don't go to Fel relates to:Unless someone's actually in to the "excitement" or "thrill" of having their gameplay completely disrupted on someone else's whim, then when given a choice between "yes" and "no" the answer is neither hard to figure out, or particularly related to fear.
Yes, you could argue that not wanting to chance it is fear of the possibility. But it's equally arguable that it's a fairly elementary solution to a problem, along the lines of "'Doctor, doctor! It hurts when I [action]' 'Then don't [action]'".

The shame is that there's not the same type of community now that the worlds are split up like there was Pre-Tram.

In the past there was PK's but there was also just as many, if not more PK hunters.

There were many times we would hang out and protect miners from PKers.

And yes there were people who indiscriminately killed others, but not to the level of today. I attribute this to the fact that there is really no one to PK anymore, so when a red sees a blue he gets all giddy and attacks.

Also in the past there were many many reds who did not PK indiscriminately, they PKed the Noto Blues, or blue Pker who cause problems for other blues.

The good old days, that sadly most people never experienced... TRUE ULTIMA ONLINE.

 

[Alezi]

That was all before scripts and hacks and cheats. Nowadays you don't have the chance to run away. You are dead sometimes as soon as you recall or gate into felluca.

And the prize goes to.... PASmountaindew! Grats, first one to drag scripts and hacks into this thread!

 

[hen]

When a man has the free will to do whatever he wishes, that is when you will see the greatest acts of compassion the human spirit can aspire to; and that is why the original facet will always be my home.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Why do you have to advertise Felucca (or Siege)? Why do most people not want to play there? I am pretty sure there are reasons, and the reasons are not "fear".

Food for thought.

 

[Uriah Heep]

The shame is that there's not the same type of community now that the worlds are split up like there was Pre-Tram.

In the past there was PK's but there was also just as many, if not more PK hunters.

There were many times we would hang out and protect miners from PKers.

And yes there were people who indiscriminately killed others, but not to the level of today. I attribute this to the fact that there is really no one to PK anymore, so when a red sees a blue he gets all giddy and attacks.

Also in the past there were many many reds who did not PK indiscriminately, they PKed the Noto Blues, or blue Pker who cause problems for other blues.

The good old days, that sadly most people never experienced... TRUE ULTIMA ONLINE.

Go to Fel today is like sticking your head in the Lion's mouth. It isn't, and won't ever be, like the old days. Iv'e said it before and I'll say it again, the early days existed because "everyone" lived in Fel, and there was balance.
Now the population is predominantly pvp oriented, and to an extent pk oriented, so naturally the occasional wanderer that happens thru is in trouble

Just pulling numbers out of my arse here, based on my experience. But in the old days less than 10% of the people I met were into pvp, even less were Pks. Quiet a few were crafters, repairing and making wares to sell. The rest were casual gamers like myself, working skills, struggling to find regs and resources...mining to make some gold. When we were all there, the mix was fine. Now, it isnt so. I don't see it working as long as the pop is split into two distinct and separate groups, with no need to work together or live together. This is the reason that Siege works still, because they actually do have the real mix, and not *just* the pvp attitude.
*shrugs*
just an opinion

 

[Spoz]

I often kill Ice Fiend to get my fame and honour up. In Fel the prizes are huge, 3 ice demons spawn at once... and fame has a boost. I once decided to look at Trammel ice dungeon. One Ice Fiend spawned.. Every 50 seconds. In a camped and crowded area. Why on Earth would someone want to go there when in Felucca the rewards are so much better for such a minimal risk (death means nothing nowadays).

I wander around Felucca on my red stealther while training tracking and I'm impressed by the amount of people there. People do exist in Felucca, however they are pretty cowardly. Whenever I appear (just to say hello since I don't murder non-enemy guilds) they instantly run or recall. Sometimes they even are so surprised they sit there for 5 seconds mustering courage and still run after they've regained control of their bowels and I've not attacked them. Trust me - if I wanted them dead they would have been dead.

Bet they probably recall home and say how they just survived a "PK attack" as well.

 

[Jhym]

I only go there for the music.

It makes me feel like I'm heading into a horror movie.

I may move back some day, but at the moment I have no bigger plots I can grab so I have no reason to.

 

[RedDaTeef]

Don't lie...your scared!

*Winks*

 

[Connor_Graham]

Damn near everyone that plays is afraid to go to Fel.

There is no fear involved. Dislike and disinterest, yes, but no fear. It's a video game. No one is afraid of their pixels getting killed.

 

[Prince Caspian]

I often kill Ice Fiend to get my fame and honour up. In Fel the prizes are huge, 3 ice demons spawn at once... and fame has a boost. I once decided to look at Trammel ice dungeon. One Ice Fiend spawned.. Every 50 seconds. In a camped and crowded area. Why on Earth would someone want to go there when in Felucca the rewards are so much better for such a minimal risk (death means nothing nowadays).

I wander around Felucca on my red stealther while training tracking and I'm impressed by the amount of people there. People do exist in Felucca, however they are pretty cowardly. Whenever I appear (just to say hello since I don't murder non-enemy guilds) they instantly run or recall. Sometimes they even are so surprised they sit there for 5 seconds mustering courage and still run after they've regained control of their bowels and I've not attacked them. Trust me - if I wanted them dead they would have been dead.

Bet they probably recall home and say how they just survived a "PK attack" as well.

Or maybe they just dont wanna be ganked or robbed, which is what 99.9999999% of all red names have in mind when they approach you in Fel, and didn't give you a second thought when they got away.

You arent a superior player because you choose to play in Fel, even if you decide to spare your "cowardly" targets, whose aversion to you probably has a great deal more to do with not wanting the hassle of being PKed (ressing, insurance, etc) than actual fear.

 

[Spoz]

There is no fear involved. Dislike and disinterest, yes, but no fear. It's a video game. No one is afraid of their pixels getting killed.

I'd beg to differ. I think a lot of people take death very personally and it means a great deal to them. I just compare it to the amount of people that take a simple halloween quest so seriously.

 

[Chad Sexington]

Don't lie...your scared!

*Winks*

I wet my pants constantly.

 

[Spree]

 

[Prince Caspian]

I'd beg to differ.

Of course you would. The idea that you are striking terror in the hearts of your fellow players is obviously very validating to you. You like to have the illusion that you are the boogeyman that the other players flee from.

In this respect, you are no different than the vast, VAST majority of PKs.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'd beg to differ. I think a lot of people take death very personally and it means a great deal to them.

Beg all you want. Be the big, bad, boogeyman of Fel all you want. It's still not going to make anyone scared.

There's a big difference between not liking to fail at something and being scared.

 

[Shelleybean]

Its FUN in Fel because you have to always be wary.

Believe it not, some players don't find that fun. I play to relax, not to be on my guard all the time. I've played UO since the pre Trammel days and I've had my fill of pks and thieves. I've had enough to last my entire UO gaming life.

 

[Prince Caspian]

Believe it not, some players don't find that fun. I play to relax, not to be on my guard all the time. I've played UO since the pre Trammel days and I've had my fill of pks and thieves. I've had enough to last my entire UO gaming life.

This is the nub of the argument most PKs dont seem to get. It's obviously great fun to play the wolf. However, it sucks to play the sheep. A lot of the joy PKs have always derived was from the misery of other players.

 

[Spoz]

Beg all you want. Be the big, bad, boogeyman of Fel all you want. It's still not going to make anyone scared.

There's a big difference between not liking to fail at something and being scared.

Yes its called being scared to fail against someone else which is basically the same thing. Besides I'm not a boogeyman of anything - I don't kill blues in Felucca other than opposing guilds. I do usually bring a few people I like to Felucca for a bit of easy hunting. If they are not scared.

 

[Jhym]

No need to lie at all. My houses were all in Felucca until 2008, when I found much bigger plots in Trammel.

If an 18x18 or a keep/castle spot opens up I may move back, otherwise I'm comfy cozy.

 

[Coffin]

I like pvping, and I spend a lot of time in Fel. But, I can easily see why a lot people are weary of it. It's not so much that getting killed is a huge issue, but people can't deal with the psychological impact of having another real life gamer encroach on their emotional attitude towards their character, ego, name and feelings of relative safety. It's hard for me to put into words what I mean, but basically - people don't like the feeling of someone else doing them harm. Which is hard to analyze because it's a virtual world and there are no real consequences.

When you die in Fel, there's two ways to look at the situation. Option 1 is, OK - this person just wants me dead. This PK hates me, and wants me to cry and get upset. This PK wants to torment me and dominate me. Option 2 is to look at it is - I died in UO PvP, but since this is a game, I will say "good show" to him, re-equip my gear, and get back in the fight! He may call me names, but *lol*, it's the internet!

I think a lot of people who don't PvP much see death in Fel as option 1.

But can you blame them? The UO PvP scene is pretty bad if you really think about it. It seems like everyone just wants to trash talk. Even a good back and forth fight ends with someone getting called a noob, or trash, or house-hider, or things that I can't post here. I compare it to , for example, the Team Fortress 2 community. People there compete like crazy, but it's mostly laughing and encouragement in PvP. Unlike UO where everyone wants to cut each other down and call each other trash.

Am I rambling? Heh. </rant>

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yes its called being scared to fail against someone else which is basically the same thing.

You really need to just get out a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word scared, because you obviously don't know what it is. Not liking to do something and being scared to do it are 2 different things. People may not "like" to die, but they're damn sure not "scared" to. I'll be more than happy to discuss this further once you have a grasp of the conversation.

 

[Jhym]

This is an argument that never gets anywhere.

The two sides don't understand each other and thus it's like two huge perpetual wind machines blowing volcanic hot air at each other in the hopes that the other machine will cool down and thus agree.

And then a Dev says something and both machines turn on him or her.

Hence why the Devs say practically nothing about the PK vs non-PK argument any more.

They don't like the hot, dry air.

 

[Gheed]

I like pvping, and I spend a lot of time in Fel. But, I can easily see why a lot people are weary of it. It's not so much that getting killed is a huge issue, but people can't deal with the psychological impact of having another real life gamer encroach on their emotional attitude towards their character, ego, name and feelings of relative safety. It's hard for me to put into words what I mean, but basically - people don't like the feeling of someone else doing them harm. Which is hard to analyze because it's a virtual world and there are no real consequences.

I think you are on to something. I have always thought of fel/tram as a PvP yes/no switch. But the lastest event proved a lot of folks think tram should be a place to shield them against any sort of unwanted player interaction. I was pretty floored about that really.

I did not understand why folks related the NPC curing event as a fel type experience....that camping the cure npc is fel sort of thing to do. When in fact it seems more like a tram thing to do. Fel really seems much more fair about it. At least in fel you have the option to attack if someone nabs your robe on the last 5 crystals.

But in tram you don't have that option. I see my fair share of trash talkers in tram when I fight "their" spawn or jump on "their" sparkle. Get 4 or 5 tamers rotating cu's for a blaze and see how trammelized the group is when one pops.

But I think you are on track with the "having another real life gamer encroach on their emotional attitude towards their character, ego," line. Sort of an "I'll play with others as long as they don't do anything to interfere with my goal cause I got my trammel filter on" sort of attitude. Trammel... once a gift to those who wanted to enjoy the game without looking over their shoulder for thieves or murderers..... has become fat and greedy.