You don't own the spawns folks...

[Sindris]

Ok, this is not a rant. (really!) But I am noticing the same behavior seems to crop up every time an event like ToT starts up.

So, I decide I am actually bored enough to try my hand at some martie drops for a bit. I did the Oni area where the revenant lions and bake-whatevers spawn. I get a nice haul of gold and a few items I think might be worth enhancing, but the martie drops seem a bit slow. I mention this in alliance chat and one of the gals mentions that I would probably get more drops off of the weaker critters. What you lose in difficulty you make up for in quantity. Makes sense. So off I go to Zento. I head toward the sandy area where those ugly beetles spawn along with the various orcs that spawn along the edges of that area, and the mid-level undead that populate the northern center areas.

Right off the bat I head into an Orc spawn, there is a guy standing there with a pile of orc bodies all around him. Ok, I'll move on. Oops, another guy at a spawn point, again surrounded by Orc bodies. Repeat this a couple more times at the rest of the orc spawns and also in the undead area.

Well, I can just leave I guess, but hell! These people have been doing this for a while now it looks like and nobody OWNS the spawn points, right? So I head over to one of the orc spawns and see the guy I saw before in this spot standing in the same spot with corpses all around him. A couple of orcs are bit away from him so I quickly kill them. Another spawned and I quickly killed it as well, since the guy standing there hadn't moved. Suddenly after that, he sprang to life. I let him kill the next and went after the one that followed. Not so fast! He ran after it as well killed it with his repond slayer. I managed to beat him to the next one and was finally greeted with "Hey, you know I was here first, right?" Which is camper language for "What the hell are you doing killing MY spawn". I was immediately annoyed and decided to stay for a bit. "I know you heard what I said"
Of course I had, I just couldn't see what it had to do with the price of regs in moonglow.

I continued getting intermittent kills and a silver dye pigment. I figured after 10 minutes I'd move on, and did. I went to another spawn and again attacked some straggling orcs that were apparently out of aggro range from the guy with the corpse collection standing there. Which means he was either extremely lazy or AFK. Again, I killed a few before this fellow sprang to life. No "Hi! how are ya!" Instead I got "You must be a lonely little boy messing with people around here." So apparently he had been chatting with the other guy. Rather than engage in a pissing contest I agreed I was rather lonely and a trifle cranky and thank you very much for asking.

He continued to try and get a rise out of me with usual "Isn't it your bed time?" "Meet me in fel, trammy!" and so on and so forth. It was making him madder by just agreeing with him about how awful I was than arguing with him. Finally as a last resort he told me that what I was doing was considered harassment. That got me laughing pretty good. I told him I would wait there while he explained to a GM how I was harassing him by not acknowledging his sovereignty over this particular orc spawn. After another 5 minutes he left and I killed orcs for a bit in peace.

Now my question is this. Should I or anyone else simply wander off because a few individuals think they are entitled to camp the same area all alone for days at a time? I pay the same subscription fees they do after all. When people recalled into the Oni spawn I was working I certainly didn't act like it was mine alone. I took turns, mostly grateful to have time to look more carefully at the loot they were dropping between kills. I couldn't possibly be the only person to run into this sort of situation. What protocol, if any, should we follow?

 

[Thunderz]

Very intresting and funny read, thanks

We get this with any event, one that comes to mind was the last one involving the big spider and collecting something from the little guys that spawned in her room, people where sat there farming them and if someone came along to kill some, they got mad lol.

I find it fun when you come across people like that that think its there game and you cant play it looooolz, i love to have fun winding them up even more like you did by always agreing with them and some get so mad

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I generally try to "bother" people who are pleasant, tho at times it does bring me pleasure to upset the would complainer specially if they offer to take me to fel and call me a trammy, they are the best as my reply is always the same and always involves them being in tram , once you step foot in tram you should not be calling any a trammy, you are there are you not? Oh well can't be bothered with these people most of the time so I would look for someone more like you, pleasant to hunt with willing to share. I would normally do an "afk/pleasantness" check by saying hello and striking up a conversation if they are there, if they are not pleasant I will either aggravate them for being rude or go my own way. Of course I don't think anyone should be limited to a "protocol" I just find my time better served with pleasant people rather than people who would rather be rude and greedy. And next time they say its harassment let them know they have to recall away from the situation before it is harassment, Kill stealing is not against the TOS

 

[Farsight]

Good post!

And no, you don't have to play thier game. If you come across me, I'm more than happy to share. But typically, I just move on (give up the spawn) if there's somewhere to move on to. Then there's more for all of us. Unless it's a player out of his league, then I help out as best I can. It's more fun to help kill things than it is to watch the screen while I mindlessly kill more critters.

 

[Mistura]

I think that basically, when your all alone at a spawn location, you are entitled to 100% of the creatures that spawn. If someone else shows up, you are then entitled to 50% of whats there. I think everyone realises this, even the idiots that would swear blind all the orcs in that location belong to them, simply because they were there first.

When I used to farm Miasmas, regardless of how long I had been there, be it 5 minutes or an hour, the second someone else showed, I realised that it was time to start sharing the spawn.

What I do think is a good idea is to say hello to the person who was there first, and out of courtesy, ask "mind if i join in?" or whatever. No, you dont have to ask permission to join in, but its nice to be nice. Then, you can usually work out between you whether turns would be best or whether a free for all is better. This is how you can meet random new friends, by actually engaging people and getting off on the right foot.

There is nothing more annoying than someone who just turns up and starts casting evs without even aknowledging the existance of the person who is already there. That, in my humble opinion, is the height of ignorance... :/

 

[Serafi]

Now my question is this. Should I or anyone else simply wander off because a few individuals think they are entitled to camp the same area all alone for days at a time?

I just wonder : Why not ask?
First a : Hello! Second, two simple words: Take turns?

No, I don`t think anyone own a spawn, and when it`s so busy as it is right now even more so. If you only have one hour between laundry and dinner, and/or before the rest of the house comes home then you should be able to squeeze in as well as those playing 24/7.

However! Common courtesy goes a long way. Ask first. If you barge in on a spawn I am working, not saying a word I will treat you like those putting themselves in front of me in a line at a shop. I get cranky. If you ask however I will happily share.

Then theres common sense: If the spawn does not really accomodate for two people, effectively reducing both chances at a minor - maybe you should find some place else.

 

[Sindris]

I just wonder : Why not ask?
First a : Hello! Second, two simple words: Take turns?

No, I don`t think anyone own a spawn, and when it`s so busy as it is right now even more so. If you only have one hour between laundry and dinner, and/or before the rest of the house comes home then you should be able to squeeze in as well as those playing 24/7.

However! Common courtesy goes a long way. Ask first. If you barge in on a spawn I am working, not saying a word I will treat you like those putting themselves in front of me in a line at a shop. I get cranky. If you ask however I will happily share.

Then theres common sense: If the spawn does not really accomodate for two people, effectively reducing both chances at a minor - maybe you should find some place else.

I agree that in most cases you should ask if a person minds sharing. Did it a million times back when swoops were good for more than training pets. In this instance the fact that the people were obviously semi-afk I decided to smack the ones that were lingering. I did not rush in and take kills they were headed toward. I took the ones that hadn't managed to wander into aggro range yet. I'm guessing they had the volume up and could hear me running around, because there was a definite delayed reaction. Heck, one of the guys is STILL in the exact same spot. Its been three hours and he has not moved a single space. His victims clearly demonstrate that. =P He is now sharing his spawn with me occasionally as I do my rounds, I doubt he's even aware of it.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

If there is a spawn node that is currently uncamped, it is best for everyone if you move there.

If all spawn nodes are already camped (and let's face it, it's not going to be easy to find one that isn't in the current circumstances), there should be no need for you to "ask" to join in.

If I was to arrive at a node where a player wasn't even moving, I'd feel no guilt in taking 100% of the kills there. If the player was moving but obviously couldn't keep up with me, that'd be a bit different - I'd make sure they got a fair share.

Remember that many players believe there is nothing wrong with unattended play, and expect everyone to allow them to do so uninterrupted (on the basis that they reckon that's what you'd be doing with the node if they weren't there).

I get the impression that, since quantity of kills seems to beat quality of kills, the best way for everyone to get artis is to join in and bash the one monster - so multiple people get kill credit for everything that goes down. Obviously this doesn't work on one-hit-wonders (such as orcs). Just throwing the idea out there.

 

[Fink]

If I want to split the spawn I'll ask first. I generally move on. If I really want to stay and they're non-responsive (read: afk) I'll sometimes help myself. It's usually a few minutes after that that they notice you & get all irate. It's probably just embarrassment from being caught.

It was making him madder by just agreeing with him about how awful I was than arguing with him.

Not always the best response but it's at least entertaining (and at the expense of a jerk, double points). It either infuriates them or on rare occasions they end up laughing.

 

[Maplestone]

Personally, unless the whole of Tok (or at least the portion that your character can deal with) is camped, I think the polite thing to do is move along.

If I see other people zipping around looking for a place to camp, I'll move on as soon as I get a drop - or a full pack of loot.

In the end though, the only person's behavior I can control is my own. It's a long month and I'm not going to be camping 24x7 ... whether or not I get the perfect spawn to camp isn't really going to make any difference in the long run.

 

[phantus]

It's easy to see both sides of the fence on this ticket for nearly everyone. I'm gonna chime in and agree with saying hello if you start killing stuff in an area someone is currently camping. Not because you owe them anything or need their permission but because in most cases there are people behind those characters and we are social creatures after all.

That being said, I think everyone should also realize that when these type of events are on you are going to have to treat your adventuring experience with a grain of salt. We all know there is going to be crowded corners. We all know the goal is to find a good spot that will give great rewards...etc ...etc.

Each day I go out I expect to see some of the following:
1.) An invisible tamer that only shows to heal their pet
2.) Someone that believes you are the enemy if you are in "their" spot
3.) Someone that believes everyone is a trammy and is predisposed to be an ass to them
4.) An ev/nf machine
5,) Dexxer in a sr/hp regen suit with a pile of headless ones at his feet

There was a time when you went to a dungeon(they were always packed) it was the best place to find new friends. This type of thing seems to happen less often now for some reason. Could be the rewards or it could be that people are just different now. Either way it doesn't hurt to say hello. You might make a friend.

After this is over tokuno will go back to the worthless waste of space it's always been. That's the truly funny part.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I think that basically, when your all alone at a spawn location, you are entitled to 100% of the creatures that spawn. If someone else shows up, you are then entitled to 50% of whats there. I think everyone realises this, even the idiots that would swear blind all the orcs in that location belong to them, simply because they were there first.

Everyone except the serious losers that think you should move on as soon as they show up. If you don't, then they call their "posse" in to gank the spawn. What's seriously sad is them having to do this because they suck so bad they can't even kill mid-low level spawn without help unless they have a GD and Hiding.

 

[Petra Fyde]

mostly if I arrive at a spawn and find someone already there I'll move on, lots of places to hunt in Tokuno. If I'm already there and someone else arrives I wait to see what happens. Either they recall out again, in which case I stay, or they start killing spawn, in which case I move on.

Most of the places I choose to hunt don't spawn enough critters for 2 hunters. I rarely stay in one spot more than an hour anyway, not even that most of the time, I get bored and need a change of scenery.

 

[Podolak]

I was actually in that spot on my shard early this morning. There was no one else around. I went there myself to collect some stout whips (I ended up with six). I didn't get any arties though. I was casting bees and it was killing them fast enough

Interestingly, I was walking around on another island with my GD and it attacked a giant spider, Bingo! Arti. So it seems I have better luck not trying at all.

 

[IanJames]

This doesn't happen on Siege. . .

If you step on someone's spawn you'd best be ready to defend yourself. Usually if someone wants your spawn area, they will just kill you first and then take over.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This doesn't happen on Siege. . .

If you step on someone's spawn you'd best be ready to defend yourself. Usually if someone wants your spawn area, they will just kill you first and then take over.

And of course this is the better option? Especially on a game that is so item bias that its not worth trying to compete with the overly powered? or with those who undoubtedly will be calling in the posse? I am not really an advocate for tram but people, really? Fel is not so great, I know I spend more than 90pct of my time there. Sure siege is great for no duped items and a few other things that could be valid points of why siege is a good shard, but this...is not really one of them -.- MOST of the people who NEVER go to fel, do so for a reason, either they can not pvp, or do not wish to conduct themselves in such a way. On the other hand for the more pvp inclined, this is an excellent point and as long as you can pvp (or possibly defend vs a squad of people) this approach is the best.

 

[Otis Firefly]

Tokuno areas are mine!! i was here first!!, get out of it! all of you!!

 

[Fresley]

I try to play nice, but I certainly don't have to.

Some of my characters are not very pleasant people. They have no understanding of the kind of safe and regulated world that we live in. Theirs is full of death and chaos. Demons bursting through dark portals. Split alternate and even more terrifying realities. Its a wonder any of them are still sane.

 

[Prince Caspian]

It's not just Treasures of Tokuno. It's just the old, old, old UO Event Equation:

Limited Time Event + Artie Drop System = MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!

Seriously, these events bring out the worst in players, ESPECIALLY towards the end of the event. I haven't had much of an issue, yet -- people are respecting the first-come-first-serve spawns for the most part, but that will get less and less genteel as the end of the event arrives. Last week it's gonna be feeding time at the zoo, with all kinds of feuds, profanity and hard feelings over who gets to kill that last death watch hatchling.

The thing that still fumed me to no end was that ******* during the Sicarii event who basically yelled at ANYONE gathering gossamers while he spent 40+ hours camping the room -- all because he wanted to sell them on his vendor. Never mind the fact that most of the people encroaching on his sacred property were simply trying to complete the event ONE TIME and were no interested in profiteering off of it. Yes, it's old news and in the past, but it still is the pinnacle example of the kind of selfish foolio who ruins it for a lot of casual players.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Tokuno areas are mine!! i was here first!!, get out of it! all of you!!

You would not even be able to compete with an imp....

Edit: why are you not on msn so I can yell at you -.-, also on a side note I just noticed your "mod" tag does not say what you mod =o

 

[Scratch]

lmao....."the price of regs in moonglow" had me flying roflcopters sucking on my lolzerpop

 

[Otis Firefly]

You would not even be able to compete with an imp....

Edit: why are you not on msn so I can yell at you -.-, also on a side note I just noticed your "mod" tag does not say what you mod =o

Cant use msn atm, there is no tag for the Tokuno mod! i am the Tokuno mod, now everyone get out of it!! lmao
also!, yes i have beaten an imp! it took some time but i got the job done

 

[Kaleb]

I kill anything that moves, if can get there first or get looting rights than it will die. I wasn't always like that but the greedy ones that threat with GM or start talking trash for just appearing in the same spawn zone ruined it for everyone else. I mean face it no creature in game is a single persons unless its a pet, what spawns is just as much mine as it is yours so im going to attack it no matter how it makes you feel if your not a guild member or a friend i simply just dont care.

 

[Gowron]

To the OP:

This is my doctrine in those situations.
Generally, if an individual or a group are working a room/spawn area, I will go in and take a whack at the next spawn that they aren't fighting. If they protest, I stick around. If they protest more, I inform them quickly "I go where I want, when I want, and do what I want. You have no ownership of any territory beyond your house." If they simmer down, and politely ask for me to move on, I do so, but after they acknowledge my freedom of navigation.

I've also noticed that camping a spawn area goes slower for me in getting marties, than a steady patrol route.

You did well.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Cant use msn atm, there is no tag for the Tokuno mod! i am the Tokuno mod, now everyone get out of it!! lmao
also!, yes i have beaten an imp! it took some time but i got the job done

Finally? didn't you start that battle sometime last month? and what do you mean you cant use msn, I am going to spam your email for fun now >.<

 

[Connor_Graham]

im going to attack it no matter how it makes you feel if your not a guild member or a friend i simply just dont care.

This is the mentality of those that should be playing console games and not MMO's. I'd love to see some of these people's reactions if they actually had to face the people they act this way toward in the real world, without the safety net of anonymity to keep them safe.

:loser:

 

[Foolio the Bard]

Right off the bat I head into an Orc spawn, there is a guy standing there with a pile of orc bodies all around him. Ok, I'll move on. Oops, another guy at a spawn point, again surrounded by Orc bodies. Repeat this a couple more times at the rest of the orc spawns and also in the undead area.

Unattended melee characters standing in one spot, never moving, never looting, just collecting piles of marties while their owners are AFK??? in my game?? but but I thought only tamers were the evilz!!!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This is the mentality of those that should be playing console games and not MMO's. I'd love to see some of these people's reactions if they actually had to face the people they act this way toward in the real world, without the safety net of anonymity to keep them safe.

:loser:

Of course if you actually took the time to read the post it very clearly says they use to be nice but the rampant build up of rude people in the world of UO has made them into more or less that which they seemingly detest. Of course I did wonder while reading it how they make friends when they act like that, but to each their own and if they are ok playing like that then that is their own priority I suppose.

 

[Theo_GL]

Ok, this is not a rant. (really!) But I am noticing the same behavior seems to crop up every time an event like ToT starts up.

So, I decide I am actually bored enough to try my hand at some martie drops for a bit. I did the Oni area where the revenant lions and bake-whatevers spawn. I get a nice haul of gold and a few items I think might be worth enhancing, but the martie drops seem a bit slow. I mention this in alliance chat and one of the gals mentions that I would probably get more drops off of the weaker critters. What you lose in difficulty you make up for in quantity. Makes sense. So off I go to Zento. I head toward the sandy area where those ugly beetles spawn along with the various orcs that spawn along the edges of that area, and the mid-level undead that populate the northern center areas.

Right off the bat I head into an Orc spawn, there is a guy standing there with a pile of orc bodies all around him. Ok, I'll move on. Oops, another guy at a spawn point, again surrounded by Orc bodies. Repeat this a couple more times at the rest of the orc spawns and also in the undead area.

Well, I can just leave I guess, but hell! These people have been doing this for a while now it looks like and nobody OWNS the spawn points, right? So I head over to one of the orc spawns and see the guy I saw before in this spot standing in the same spot with corpses all around him. A couple of orcs are bit away from him so I quickly kill them. Another spawned and I quickly killed it as well, since the guy standing there hadn't moved. Suddenly after that, he sprang to life. I let him kill the next and went after the one that followed. Not so fast! He ran after it as well killed it with his repond slayer. I managed to beat him to the next one and was finally greeted with "Hey, you know I was here first, right?" Which is camper language for "What the hell are you doing killing MY spawn". I was immediately annoyed and decided to stay for a bit. "I know you heard what I said"
Of course I had, I just couldn't see what it had to do with the price of regs in moonglow.

I continued getting intermittent kills and a silver dye pigment. I figured after 10 minutes I'd move on, and did. I went to another spawn and again attacked some straggling orcs that were apparently out of aggro range from the guy with the corpse collection standing there. Which means he was either extremely lazy or AFK. Again, I killed a few before this fellow sprang to life. No "Hi! how are ya!" Instead I got "You must be a lonely little boy messing with people around here." So apparently he had been chatting with the other guy. Rather than engage in a pissing contest I agreed I was rather lonely and a trifle cranky and thank you very much for asking.

He continued to try and get a rise out of me with usual "Isn't it your bed time?" "Meet me in fel, trammy!" and so on and so forth. It was making him madder by just agreeing with him about how awful I was than arguing with him. Finally as a last resort he told me that what I was doing was considered harassment. That got me laughing pretty good. I told him I would wait there while he explained to a GM how I was harassing him by not acknowledging his sovereignty over this particular orc spawn. After another 5 minutes he left and I killed orcs for a bit in peace.

Now my question is this. Should I or anyone else simply wander off because a few individuals think they are entitled to camp the same area all alone for days at a time? I pay the same subscription fees they do after all. When people recalled into the Oni spawn I was working I certainly didn't act like it was mine alone. I took turns, mostly grateful to have time to look more carefully at the loot they were dropping between kills. I couldn't possibly be the only person to run into this sort of situation. What protocol, if any, should we follow?

I'm fully on board with you. No one owns the spawn. The fact that you can stand in one place and kill the same monster over and over is one of the BIGGEST mistakes in all of UO. If creatures were truely randomized across the land - then you would find one, kill it, and have to move on.

Farming the same spawn point over and over is just plain stupid. I've never liked that about UO.

 

[Kaleb]

This is the mentality of those that should be playing console games and not MMO's. I'd love to see some of these people's reactions if they actually had to face the people they act this way toward in the real world, without the safety net of anonymity to keep them safe.

:loser:

But is that not what tram created? A console game?

 

[Connor_Graham]

But is that not what tram created? A console game?

Actually, it was the same behavior of the people that should be playing console games that caused the need for Tram to begin with, so I guess you could say it was their own fault.

 

[onthefifty]

This is the mentality of those that should be playing console games and not MMO's. I'd love to see some of these people's reactions if they actually had to face the people they act this way toward in the real world, without the safety net of anonymity to keep them safe.

:loser:

this from the guy that after asking where the dirty plates spawned and finding out promptly went and stocked them on his vendor for 50k a plate.

hypocrite...

 

[Kaleb]

Of course if you actually took the time to read the post it very clearly says they use to be nice but the rampant build up of rude people in the world of UO has made them into more or less that which they seemingly detest. Of course I did wonder while reading it how they make friends when they act like that, but to each their own and if they are ok playing like that then that is their own priority I suppose.

I don't make friends in the PvM environment (Except for champs) that's not what I play UO for. I only pvm if it helps me advance my character(s) for PvP or for events where I can make gold to advance my character(s) for PvP. You see after a decade plus with the same AI PvM seems rather redundant to me. Its nothing real personal against the other players but when im after what I want I go for it as fast as I can so I can get back into the part of the game Im interested in. I dont hang in one spot for too long couple kills unless the person starts running their mouth then I will stick around just because I can.

but alot of it is about the "mine" attitude of many players over the course of trams existence. Most dont remember the tamers with thier pack of wyrms or (insert) bards, killing everything in site, today I see that with tamers w/ G-Drags, Cu's while hidden, sampires, and disco samurai paladins.

 

[IanJames]

And of course this is the better option? Especially on a game that is so item bias that its not worth trying to compete with the overly powered? or with those who undoubtedly will be calling in the posse? I am not really an advocate for tram but people, really? Fel is not so great, I know I spend more than 90pct of my time there. Sure siege is great for no duped items and a few other things that could be valid points of why siege is a good shard, but this...is not really one of them -.- MOST of the people who NEVER go to fel, do so for a reason, either they can not pvp, or do not wish to conduct themselves in such a way. On the other hand for the more pvp inclined, this is an excellent point and as long as you can pvp (or possibly defend vs a squad of people) this approach is the best.

I can't PVP, and don't try to. Most of the time I don't have to fight anyone for real estate. I've been shoo-ed out of places before. I've called in the cavalry to have people run off, it's all part of the game.

 

[Kaleb]

But is that not what tram created? A console game?

Actually, it was the same behavior of the people that should be playing console games that caused the need for Tram to begin with, so I guess you could say it was their own fault.

Um no I have the reason to believe it was the Safty EQ offered and how successful it was and OSI saw the potential profits based on such a system the way they added it to existing servers vs creating new servers is and to this day what leaves a sour taste in most of our(vets/pvper's pre UO:R) mouths. It had nothing to do with the game play of UO. Back then UO was truly a MMO you depended on meeting people, joining guilds to advance in the game everyone played by the rules of that time for the most part. It was an emotional roller coaster back then it is what made UO great!!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't make friends in the PvM environment (Except for champs) that's not what I play UO for. I only pvm if it helps me advance my character(s) for PvP or for events where I can make gold to advance my character(s) for PvP. You see after a decade plus with the same AI PvM seems rather redundant to me. Its nothing real personal against the other players but when im after what I want I go for it as fast as I can so I can get back into the part of the game Im interested in. I dont hang in one spot for too long couple kills unless the person starts running their mouth then I will stick around just because I can.

but alot of it is about the "mine" attitude of many players over the course of trams existence. Most dont remember the tamers with thier pack of wyrms or (insert) bards, killing everything in site, today I see that with tamers w/ G-Drags, Cu's while hidden, sampires, and disco samurai paladins.

Err....My post was in direct response to someone else, so I don't really have a response for this? OH you are responding to my how do you make friends bit haha, O.K got it, Well I just asked because it seemed more of a general statement you made which to me would mean you treat every aspect of the game like that and I would still see a "making friends" issue , and I don't think the "mine" attitude has erupted from tram, but what do I know only been playing for 12 years =\. Of course I would never force anyone to play differently than their style and I do love to pvp, I also do not mind pvm at all, I do how ever hate playing alone...we play an MMO I think everything should take more than one person but again that would be forcing my opinion on people =\ oh well, I must admit that when tram was implemented there was no "console game" mentality I think everyone played it the same, I honestly do not know any beta vets who play only in tram....that being said the "console game mentality" is not what sprang the need for tram, it was the "hey new people you can be safe here" but hey once again what do I know with my limited since beta experience of knowledge *shrugs*

 

[Kaleb]

Err....My post was in direct response to someone else, so I don't really have a response for this? OH you are responding to my how do you make friends bit haha, O.K got it, Well I just asked because it seemed more of a general statement you made which to me would mean you treat every aspect of the game like that and I would still see a "making friends" issue , and I don't think the "mine" attitude has erupted from tram, but what do I know only been playing for 12 years =\. Of course I would never force anyone to play differently than their style and I do love to pvp, I also do not mind pvm at all, I do how ever hate playing alone...we play an MMO I think everything should take more than one person but again that would be forcing my opinion on people =\ oh well, I must admit that when tram was implemented there was no "console game" mentality I think everyone played it the same, I honestly do not know any beta vets who play only in tram....that being said the "console game mentality" is not what sprang the need for tram, it was the "hey new people you can be safe here" but hey once again what do I know with my limited since beta experience of knowledge *shrugs*

See above :/

 

[Wilde1]

In response to the OP...

While it's true that no one "owns" a spawn spot, for years there has been an informal ettiquette in MMOs that you say hi, and either ask how much longer a person is going to be at the spawn spot or if they will take turns (or party with you, depending on the game). If they respond that they'll be awhile, you find another spot. If they don't respond at all or are rude to you, then all bets are off.

The way you described the encounter, you were in the wrong. You never attempted conversation. You assumed they were afk, and just stormed right in and started killing, which was rude. Turns out, when you're a jerk to someone else, the probability is high that the sentiment will be returned, whether its a game or irl.

Its true you have a "right" to do that to the other people playing the game with you, but it was poor form on your part. Once upon a time, that behavior could get you kicked from a guild if the other person had a chat with your guild leader and you made a habit of acting that way.

Using the etiquette described above, I generally get along well with other PVMers. Since the ToT revival, I've been rezzed and rezzed others, shared spots or moved on. While i haven't tracked it exactly, its probably been a year since someone tried to force themselves on the spot i was farming once we started chatting. Might want to give it a try.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

In response to the OP...

While it's true that no one "owns" a spawn spot, for years there has been an informal ettiquette in MMOs that you say hi, and either ask how much longer a person is going to be at the spawn spot or if they will take turns (or party with you, depending on the game). If they respond that they'll be awhile, you find another spot. If they don't respond at all or are rude to you, then all bets are off.

The way you described the encounter, you were in the wrong. You never attempted conversation. You assumed they were afk, and just stormed right in and started killing, which was rude. Turns out, when you're a jerk to someone else, the probability is high that the sentiment will be returned, whether its a game or irl.

Its true you have a "right" to do that to the other people playing the game with you, but it was poor form on your part. Once upon a time, that behavior could get you kicked from a guild if the other person had a chat with your guild leader and you made a habit of acting that way.

Using the etiquette described above, I generally get along well with other PVMers. Since the ToT revival, I've been rezzed and rezzed others, shared spots or moved on. While i haven't tracked it exactly, its probably been a year since someone tried to force themselves on the spot i was farming once we started chatting. Might want to give it a try.

He was not rude at all. And he did not storm in killing anything, the player was not moving and the monsters he killed were not agro'ing the other player. Honestly if you are standing still and monsters are very obviously not moving towards you (because they are to far from you and you are not actively clicking on them to get agro) then it is safe to assume you are not going to attack them, in fact had he just stood there and didn't attack any monsters the monsters would have most likely attacked him since the player was not clicking the monsters to gain agro. Of course you also have to take into account that some shards actually have 0 spawn that does not have someone there killing so you are going to have to share, I agree with being nice and saying hello and what not but I also think everyone should just realize they should share or have to, since if they want to or not they will either have to or leave =\. Not that I agree with it but it is just the truth.

 

[UOKaiser]

He was not rude at all. And he did not storm in killing anything, the player was not moving and the monsters he killed were not agro'ing the other player. Honestly if you are standing still and monsters are very obviously not moving towards you (because they are to far from you and you are not actively clicking on them to get agro) then it is safe to assume you are not going to attack them, in fact had he just stood there and didn't attack any monsters the monsters would have most likely attacked him since the player was not clicking the monsters to gain agro. Of course you also have to take into account that some shards actually have 0 spawn that does not have someone there killing so you are going to have to share, I agree with being nice and saying hello and what not but I also think everyone should just realize they should share or have to, since if they want to or not they will either have to or leave =\. Not that I agree with it but it is just the truth.

I disagree. Doesn't matter if the person is moving,dancing,singing,or looking like a statue. It's common etiguette in trammel that if a player is in a spot which generates a certain type of spawn "which any pvm hunter knows the spots and what spawns" Then that spot is off limits unless you ask first If you can take turns then take it from there. 90% of the trammel pvm population live by this rule.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Um no I have the reason to believe it was the Safty EQ offered and how successful it was and OSI saw the potential profits based on such a system the way they added it to existing servers vs creating new servers is and to this day what leaves a sour taste in most of our(vets/pvper's pre UO:R) mouths. It had nothing to do with the game play of UO. Back then UO was truly a MMO you depended on meeting people, joining guilds to advance in the game everyone played by the rules of that time for the most part. It was an emotional roller coaster back then it is what made UO great!!

It was the mass migration of UO players to EQ because of the PK'rs that caused Tram, regardless of what you prefer to think. UO saw what they did wrong and fixed it in order to save the game. If not for Tram, UO would have been shut down a long time ago. Did they introduce it wrong? I'd say so. They should have created PvP and PvM servers, and not put Tram and Fel on the same one. We'd have a lot less problems now both in game and with the coding of it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

This is the mentality of those that should be playing console games and not MMO's. I'd love to see some of these people's reactions if they actually had to face the people they act this way toward in the real world, without the safety net of anonymity to keep them safe.

:loser:

this from the guy that after asking where the dirty plates spawned and finding out promptly went and stocked them on his vendor for 50k a plate.

hypocrite...

What does finding out where a daily rare spawns and pricing it comparably with, and even lower than, other sellers of the same item have to do with people being anti-social in a social environment? I think you need to rethink that.

 

[Dragonchilde]

the night before last, there were people ALL over the spawn area I was at (same as you, orcs/beetles). i'd run through, kill a few, move on. I've found much better spawn rates when I run and kill... bigger variety makes for better drops, IME.

I think I'd have done exactly what you did. And encouraged them to page on me.

 

[Hex_Europa]

Wouldn't happen in Felucca.....well it may once, then they would learn.

I would have asked the gentleman/lady in question how much subscription they pay per month. Same as me ? So what makes it YOUR spawn then P

 

[Kaleb]

It was the mass migration of UO players to EQ because of the PK'rs that caused Tram, regardless of what you prefer to think. UO saw what they did wrong and fixed it in order to save the game. If not for Tram, UO would have been shut down a long time ago. Did they introduce it wrong? I'd say so. They should have created PvP and PvM servers, and not put Tram and Fel on the same one. We'd have a lot less problems now both in game and with the coding of it.

?.
all you did was worded me different in the end it was about profits, and we both agree merging the 2 rule sets was a mistake so I don't get the point of this response?

 

[Limlight]

I hunt in the same place as Wizzax...I was there with him last night on my archer.

Beetles drop in 2-3 shots from my archer.

So its no biggie and most people are cool about it as Rune Beetles and Mages spawn non stop.

The other night though...some guy got all pissy when I recalled in and was "this is my area a-hole"

So, I laughed and went up a few screens...wouldnt you know it....10 minutes later...up comes this ghost....I laugh and rez him. He doesnt say thank you or anything. Instead he starts running back down. I follow him to realize he hasnt insured his stuff....he dies before he can get to it.

Keep in mind...I am an archer...

I go back up...he comes back up 0o0oooo0ing and I rez him...he says nothing again and runs down...10 seconds later he comes back up...Yet again, I rez him...even though he is a jerk. He runs back down...this continues for like 3 minutes and he says... "you need to come invis me now or my stuff will dissapear"

I tell him..."archer...cant invis"
He proceeds to cuss me out and runs back down....comes back dead 10 seconds later. This time....I ignore him and dont rez...he is 0o0oo0o0oing like crazy. So I am sure it wasnt pretty language...
He vanishes...15 minutes later a dexer comes back and starts talking trash to me....he tells me its MY FAULT that he lost his "20 mil suit"

I laugh and continue killing things..he trys to grief me by killing them....only to comp crash and die....I laugh and recall off.

Seriously, people are ridiculous.

 

[MalagAste]

I typically move on if someone is already hunting there... tokuno is a very large place and there are plenty of other areas for me to hunt...

However if I believe that person is AFK macroing the spot... I'll take it from them.... just because I think it's lame to be a cheat.

Also if I am "camping" a spot I find it to be rather rude of people to just take it over... and like someone else said most the spots I hunt at don't have enough spawn to support more than one person.

I figure hunting on my own I average about one drop every 20 min... I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to "farming" drops... so every 20 min is important... So NO I don't want to "share".... if your going to be a jerk off and try to jack the spot then you're more than welcome to try.... but I won't make it easy on you.

If I find you're too much of a pain and too persistent and your continually making my timing off on getting drops I'll let you have it and move on since you seem incapable of finding anything on your own I'll waste what little time I have to play to find another spot of my own where I'm not ruining anyone elses gameplay....

The way I figure it is it's common courtesy to ask someone if they mind you hunting there... Secondly.... that person spent the time and found that spot to hunt... I can do the same. I'm an adult not a kid I know how to read a map and I know more than one spot to hunt. Also whoever is there pays the same amount I do to play I have no more right to the spot then they do... but I do have some decency and I realize they are there to "enjoy" the game same as I... being a jerk and jacking their spot won't gain you any friends and it also ruins the community feeling of the game.... Besides the game is an MMO.... which to me means yes other people play too and I need to be courteous and realize that there probably are other places I could hunt.

I think many folk have a selfish attitude in the game... yes you pay just the same as I do... but remember everyone pays to have fun and this is a community game... it's not yours and these people all share the same shard with you. One day you may want a rez or other act of kindness from them... they may just remember what you did to ruin their day. More people remember negative experiences than positive ones... So if you do someone wrong they are likely to remember it.

Treat others as you would have them treat you. Best advice ever. So if you want me to be a jerk and jack your spot go right ahead and challenge me for mine.

 

[Sarsmi]

It seems to me from reading this thread that some people *want* to irritate other people. I know that's normal behavior for a lot of UO players but I didn't realize it was so widespread lately.

If you have the desire to engage in behavior that is very likely to annoy a total stranger then I think that's just a bit petty. It's not a case of legal or illegal gameplay, it's just immature griefing. Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you should. No reason to not ask someone if you can share a spawn or be perfectly polite.

One of the replies in this thread actually disturbed me. It was a perfect example of someone who likes to lord their power over someone else for the sake of dominance. Really creepy, IMO.

 

[Omnius]

If you come across someone else camping a spot and you muscle in, You're being a jerk. If someone took the time to find an empty spot for themself and you decide its yours because you're too lazy to find a spot that makes you a jerk.

Who cares if you think their playing is questionable. They may be one of the people making a post on stratics at this very moment and you're just accusing them of cheating.

If your attacks hit in a manner thats not conducive to sharing(ie: not getting shared looting rights on the majority of spawn) then you should switch to a means of attack that doesn't hog the spawn or find one to solo yourself.

Archers with massive di and slayers and eoo and consecrate weapon don't come to your spawn to share. Tamers don't come to share. mages and necros come to share sometimes.

If you want to be the leet roxorizer owner of the spawnzors, then find an empty spawn for yourself and camp to your hearts content. otherwise, you're worse than the jerks you post about here.

Note:this post isn't aimed toward any individual but it addresses the manner in which many posters here act.

 

[Kaleb]

This

I typically move on if someone is already hunting there... tokuno is a very large place and there are plenty of other areas for me to hunt...

However if I believe that person is AFK macroing the spot... I'll take it from them.... just because I think it's lame to be a cheat.

Also if I am "camping" a spot I find it to be rather rude of people to just take it over... and like someone else said most the spots I hunt at don't have enough spawn to support more than one person.

I figure hunting on my own I average about one drop every 20 min... I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to "farming" drops... so every 20 min is important... So NO I don't want to "share".... if your going to be a jerk off and try to jack the spot then you're more than welcome to try.... but I won't make it easy on you.

If I find you're too much of a pain and too persistent and your continually making my timing off on getting drops I'll let you have it and move on since you seem incapable of finding anything on your own I'll waste what little time I have to play to find another spot of my own where I'm not ruining anyone elses gameplay....

The way I figure it is it's common courtesy to ask someone if they mind you hunting there... Secondly.... that person spent the time and found that spot to hunt... I can do the same. I'm an adult not a kid I know how to read a map and I know more than one spot to hunt. Also whoever is there pays the same amount I do to play I have no more right to the spot then they do... but I do have some decency and I realize they are there to "enjoy" the game same as I... being a jerk and jacking their spot won't gain you any friends and it also ruins the community feeling of the game.... Besides the game is an MMO.... which to me means yes other people play too and I need to be courteous and realize that there probably are other places I could hunt.

I think many folk have a selfish attitude in the game... yes you pay just the same as I do... but remember everyone pays to have fun and this is a community game... it's not yours and these people all share the same shard with you. One day you may want a rez or other act of kindness from them... they may just remember what you did to ruin their day. More people remember negative experiences than positive ones... So if you do someone wrong they are likely to remember it.

Treat others as you would have them treat you. Best advice ever. So if you want me to be a jerk and jack your spot go right ahead and challenge me for mine.

Makes sense of this:

I kill anything that moves, if can get there first or get looting rights than it will die. I wasn't always like that but the greedy ones that threat with GM or start talking trash for just appearing in the same spawn zone ruined it for everyone else. I mean face it no creature in game is a single persons unless its a pet, what spawns is just as much mine as it is yours so im going to attack it no matter how it makes you feel if your not a guild member or a friend i simply just dont care.